1. I've swum past slower swimmers with no problem. Heads up now and again and act accordingly. No one is zig-zagging deliberately and there's enough water for everyone.
2. I don't expect slower swimmers to stay off the race line. They paid the same entry fee as me and if i'm that good, swimming round them should be no problem
3. I've never needed to draft off someone who was that slow they needed to switch to breast stroke. But picking the right feet to draft off is a lottery. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. accept it.
4. Shouting 'coming through', or 'on your left' in good time works about 99% of the time.
5. AGREED. Chick was having a bad day, but her own misfortune should not result in a hazard to other racers. Nothing to do with bike skills, that's just plain ignorance.
6. Having gained a few extra pounds, I'm not too proud to do a bit of zig-zagging. I would take a look behind though.
7. AGREED. Same as 5. Ignorance and I'm with you on that one.
8. It's fun, make 'em suffer I say, string them along as much as you can.
9. Aid Stations can be a free for all. I've even skipped through crowded aid stations in an IM without taking anything and boy did I pay for that. I never really blamed the other competitors though, maybe the organisation a little bit for not taking care of this, but mostly I blamed myself for not slowing down for a few seconds to get what I wanted. It probably cost me 20 mins to save 30 seconds.
10. Dude, If you've raced and left everything on the course, then you should be in the medical tent getting an IV. It's far more effective than food.

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TriRaceBook.com
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Hawaii Qualification Analysis

1. if you see a beginner be polite to them. - I have never seen other wise on a course.
2. I f you see someone going slow don't judge, even the best bonk - I have never seen other wise on a course.
3. Smell the roses - unless you are trying to win
4. enjoy your race you never know if it's your last - amen
5. Don't be full of yourself - you just wont fit in
6. race hard and legal - oh, now you really wont fit in
7. thank everyone working - Twice when possible
8. meet people
9. know the rules - Oh, now you want me to read and go to the manditory meetings?
10. If you are a good age grouper don't call people pussies on the forum. You are only average and given time you will mature - since when did ability have to do with the forum? Some of the best posters on this site have never done an Ironman - yet, they are industry leaders. This is after all the internet.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

what are you talking about? The original poster is not in that age group and in fact went faster than, if my math is accurate, 90 percent of the racing field.

I follow his posts on ST and have never found him to back door brag or be elitist. If anything, he's quite humble for his actual performances.
I agree with 70% of his observations, and yes going in the later waves sucks ass. Whether you are fast, semi fast or slow(but fast enough to have to be stuck some of the jack assess i observed on the road)

best reply ever

Speaking of Hosers and proud mommies...

Dude, YOU need to get over yourself and your "woe, I'm old" bullcrap.

I'm old. I'm not fast in the grand scheme of things, but having started in the last wave for many races (and always starting last in a certain NorCal RD races), I've seen what the OPer has listed. They are all pretty valid concerns IMO.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Hey, I am so totally with you:

If you are one of those few who is faster than us, you are a little bit dense and just need to learn how to relax. After all we are just here to have fun! Stupid party poopers!

If you are slower than us (and frankly most of them would be, if....), we get to make the rules and let you know on any occasion during and even after the race that you suck and that we are the greatest tri-an-athletes.
Again, we are just having some fun with a little trash talk among racing buddies. No harm no foul, right!?

Besides, what/who gives?
We payed for doing whatever we want.
Who do these people think they are.
The police?

1. Too many people are cheating, drafting, blocking and getting outside assistance (I wont even bring up the idiots with iPods)
2. People who want to enjoy a race, within the spirit of the rules - and not get crashed in to, cut off, blocked or otherwise injured by some fucktard who feels special cause "He paid too".
3. Yes, we all have the ability to turn race numbers into officials and if need be Charlie Crawford. While racing I have, and will point out drafters to marshalls, iPod wears, phone users and folks who get outside support. In front of me, behind me, around me - rules are rules, they just are not that hard. Oh, and as an RD - DQ you in a heart beat if you have the wrong helmet (and have), give time penalties to my good friends, Pros, and back of the pack folks going up a steep hill too close to others. I will take your shoes off your bike if they are left in your pedals. Then again, will change your flat tire, lend you my personal bike, give you a ton of free shit and make sure you have a SAFE day.


All in all - your post is ignorant, shows that you have selfish views on what it is you "pay for", and dont care if people around you cheat....God I hate some of these newbies.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Ahem...
Um......

Thanks Chip!

And please calm down...

seriously.

Your ignorance has yet to get me to do more than giggle at your ignorance, shake my head and think - god, there are going to be more and more people getting hurt with all these idiots on the course - dont give your self credit to get my heart rate up even a bit.


But, at least we know that when you pay for a race - you are going to do what ever you want, screw every other person. Right? That is what you said.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

This just a genaral response to this and all the other threads like it....

Why is it,that every time someone points out things that happen in a race that bugs then or to them needs mentioning they are immediately slammed down as being an asshole or an elitist?

Why is it that every time someone who is faster than most of the field mentions that they hate having to swim and bike through crowds some tool immediately say "You don't like racing with us,get an Elite Card"..

Why is it that the slower people can't accept the fact that everything this guy said actually happens and yes it is a pain in the ass.That doesn't make everyone who points it out an asshole.That just means he is telling people his experiences.

Why is it that so many people come here to ST to learn how to improve their times and get faster but then slam down the people who have done precisely that and are now struggling to deal with a whole new series of problems that they never knew exsisted.

Now as for all the negativety toward the OP..

Why the hell are you all giving him shit for stating what actually happens to faster people in crowded races...It is not like he called beginners or slower people fucking useless retards...No he didn't did he?..He didn't call anyone idiots who don't don't have a clue how to race in groups...He didn't say that it seems that these days the faster folks seem to be expected to forgo all the training they have done to tiptoe around a bunch of "special people" who while exercising their rights to compete in said event don't exercise any common sense while doing so...

There are two sides to every story and maybe.......just maybe....some of the slower people should just take a deep breath and realise that, just as some of the reckless tactics of the faster people is selfish and dangerous the very same thing can be said of the slower people.The difference is that the slower people just don't see how dangerous and selfish they can be as well.


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+1 from a guy who starts in the back. It suppose to be a race, not a tour.

Nice post. I totally agree since I have been in one of the last waves seemingly at every race this year. I have one to add.

If you don't know how to take a water bottle hand off at a bike aid station, don't proceed to go down the line knocking the bottle out of each volunteers hand leaving the person behind you out of luck.

First let me preface by saying i play by the rules and i am up at 4a.m.training and gettin'er done. So..........
I can see a hazard on the bike having a ipod (not really but....)on but how is it on the run? Running whith one actually helps me keep rythm and drift away into nomans land to where i can just run and run. How is it a hazard to someone on the run? Other then some jerk playin a bit of Rapp to loud :0)

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__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
http://www.google.com/...P7RiWyEVwpunlsc2JtQQ

Anything else master of the triathlon? pink

I was allowed to start in an Elite wave at a smaller Oly tri last weekend. It is so much nicer not to deal with the crxp you described.

jaretj

Great post. Enjoy your race,,,let others enjoy theirs.

It sems you have experienced the difficulties of starting late. However, you still don't "get it" because these things piss you off. With age often comes understanding and forbearance for your fellow athletes. Sometimes I will se a competitor struggling with some aspect and I will think about how I used to have that problem 25 years ago.

As someone in one of the older AGs, I think the key is to realize that the people you are racing against are facing the same obstacles. Slowing down for a few seconds might seem like the end of the world, but in a 5 hour race, it really isn't.

If you spend the day focussing on the things you listed, you are going to spend the day frustrated. Moving through a crowded race is a skill.

Having gone through this progression from slow newbie to faster experienced guy and now sliding back to slower experienced guy, I fully support everything that Ultratriguy said. The nice thing is that as I become a slower experienced older guy I can manage my behaviour on the courses so I don't get in the way of faster studs, and while passing even slower younger guys, I can use statements like, "Great day for race" while passing, which warns the slower athlete that I am passing, but it is less abrasive than "on your left" or "out of my way"!

I understand your comments, but unfortunately, if you read my comment (grammatical mistakes and all) at no time did I bemoan being old, I just said there is a natural fall of in performance with age. Someone who is twenty years my junior will and should expect, to out race me. Which means at some point they might have to pass me. Complaining about it just makes them look silly. To pick isolated incidents, which in twenty years of racing I encounter infrequently and to blame it on having to put up with newby Ag'ers in late waves is just selfish. Like it or not that is the reality, whether you race a Sprint or an Ironman. However to swim over someone, because you haven't bothered to sight a clear path, or to ride inside to pass on the bike is just plain dumb and dangerous. The OP complaining about walkers, means they weren't that fast as they haven't passed all the slow ones, so where's the beef?

However, here's a solution, where I race they allow faster Ag's to start in the Elite wave (although I never have...aaah) and perhaps the OP should get themselves to a level where they can start there. Problem solved. Otherwise he should find a solitary sport. We have a term for that, but as you're a lady, I won't mention it!

As for being a dude, I have never been near a horse ranch in my life. :0)

Ours is an interesting sport because in swim training we have fast,medium and slow lanes to break up the talent levels and reduce potential of injury and confrontation between different abilities..

On the road we have different classifications in cycling cpmpetitions to seperate the different ability and skill levels in order to make things fair and safe for all..We also tend to train with people of our own ability and would not expect newbies to jump in among experienced cyclists,nor would we expect better cyclists to have to worry about inexperienced riders potentially causing accidents during our training rides.

On the running track,slower runners are asked to move to the outside lanes to allow the faster runners to train on the inside..On the trails when someone is about to pass it is common courtesy for the slower runners to step off the trail and let those coming through to pass..

So,when we have all of this ingrained in our heads during every day of training then why is it unreasonable to be frustrated when the same rules,safety procedures and courtesies are thrown out the window on race day..


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Was that a Garmin in his pocket or was he happy to see you?

 I certainly hope that was not where he had his Garmin...

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-TMT

Dude...(can I call you dude?)...this is my favorite post of yours on the subject. Correct as to content, generally considerate as to tone, and helpful to those who habitually operate at more than minimum density, should they be open to learning from your experience rather than restricting themselves to simply learning from their own. I'm sure others will take offense.

Good post. Highlights many of reasons why, at 48, I've given up triathlons. Where is the fun in dealing with all of that? Now, I prefer duathlons as they are way less popular with the masses.