I am obsessive in the pool. Watching bubbles, my hands, etc. I focus on keeping the same stroke all the time. I just got a text from a good friend of mine in Austin who is also a swim coach. He nailed a set that he hadn't hit in a LONG time. He's been working on just getting his arms moving as well, and this isn't a conversation we had together...just kind of both mutually came to a similar conclusion. I find that I end up 'softening' the catch part of the stroke and focus more on the push and finish.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Replying to Brandon and Alan:

1. You can be an engineer and make good money without being a "top engineer". But if you want to be at the top of the field at the pointy end of worldwide competition then a long hiatus won't work
2. You can return to engineering as a middle age guy and choose to enter in a junior job that reflects experience and not chronological age
3. You can also go back and do some school, professional development prior to re entering at "2"
4. ....and yes, I think you could get into sales of technical products, but that's not engineering, that's sales :-)

But I think our sales team could do with guys like Brandon. In the seminconductor business there is a podium of one only. You either win the socket, and all the revenue that comes with it, or you are out and depending on the type of account it could be a year, it could 5 years. There is zero dollars for second place...a guy who is in sales who has lived the life of a pro triathlete would get that dynamic really quickly!!! Being a pro triathlete is a dog eat dog world to just put groceries on the table....sales guys in tech companies generally don't have to worry about paying for groceries.

A thought overlooked by many, but typically acknowledged is that the "skills" that makes a person successful in one area, typically will allow that person to be as successfully in any "task" that person undertakes.


It's actually one of the reasons, I'm surprised more employers don't place additional value on employees who have "successful" hobbies/activities outside of work.

Thanks for the previous response. One last question. Earlier you stated that your career is beginning to wind down. What do you think would be one last realistic goal, or one last high note to end with?

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-- Aaron Davidson

A coach of mine had the nice quote for this
"excellence is a transferable skill"
Still I'm pretty sure I'm earning less money than if I never did any sports.

I think you, Brandon and I are thinking alike.

Unfortunately most corporate hiring managers do not think that way. They generally want clones of themselves, with same education and experience background. Granted in engineering fields for example if you are going to layout a 28 nm semiconductor you need the tranferable skills first and then many years of experience to even touch a project like that, but there are many roles where this is not required. Worse yet, for some reason guys think that the person marketing or selling semiconductors shoud have 15 years of experience engineering them....these are the least affective guys at the game (that's my personal experience being able to hammer ineffective competition) :-). Don't know what the story is in heavy equipment, petro chemical etc etc.... or in consumer...look at RIM...eventually engineers can only take something so far. then you need guys who know how to out innovate, out market and out perform the competition. I think some of the skills that guys like Brandon are developing in sport are directly tranferable to industry, but you need a semi enlightened hiring guy to see through that. Those types of guy are few, but if you find them, then it is gravy train.

Dev

Interestingly, there is a long standing tradition of Wall St. firms hiring rowers, regardless of major/GPA/etc. Now, certainly some of this is nepotism - there are a lot of rowers in senior positions at Wall St. firms because rowing was (and is still) predominantly an Ivy League sport - but it's also a byproduct of the realization that rowers understand teamwork, long hours, anonymity within the team (in rowing, there is no "MVP"; the boat succeeds or fails together), hard work, etc. So I do think there are firms that really do value "outside experience." And I'd bet the ones that do are often very successful. IDEO comes to mind as a prime example.

But from a "hard" science point of view, I think you have to be immersed to be good. That's obviously true of triathlon, and I can see it with my sister and her husband, who are both extraordinary physicians (both are MD-PhDs who just received faculty positions at Johns-Hopkins). They couldn't take a year away from medicine. Now, I think they could still be involved "with" medicine, but not as doctors. Maybe like MPH or something. And I expect that the same is true for me as an engineer. I've toyed with the idea of going to grad school, but I think even that might be overwhelming for me. Could I really go back and do PhD level research? (A PhD is the only thing that interests me at the graduate level.) I don't know. Part of me doesn't think so. I'm just so far removed from that world. But I do think I could be involved as a technical employee. Probably, dare I say it, a "manager." Duh-duh-duh-dun...

But I think the world has grown increasingly specialized. Just look at the sport of triathlon itself. You used to be able to race all distances. Now you really do have to specialize. I think the greater world - in any "skill" oriented field - is going to be the same.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Is the time on the treadmill due to inclement weather, or planned intentionally for other reasons?

Finally have some reliable internet, and a 'smart phone' doesn't always cut it.

I think that 'most' pros who are not at the top of the top want to win a race. And, that means something different for some pros. It always comes up when discussing the merits of Race A vs. Race B or Rev vs. WTC to some degree. A win can mean $$ and a win can mean a 'title' of sorts.

A high note to end on would be to race Kona in 2013, I might be able to sneak in this year, but I've got another goal or two and IMTX was a step in that direction. That would essentially wrap up 25ish years in tri. And, a high note would be to win a 70.3 and an IM. None of those are 'easy'. And, as I have said outloud maybe in writing...no one 'deserves' to win a race even though people tend to say that a lot, but I feel like I could make a case for that. But, I stand by it that everyone works hard who is at or near the top. At least they do now.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Depends on the time of the year. In TX it gets really hot, and I feel that workouts can be better quality if done inside, even if there isn't as much moving air. So, I like to do the TM sessions in the heat of the summer.

I also finds that it can help with pacing or at least locking into a pace.

And finally, when we run in Austin, we run from our house a lot. The roads are really crowned, so I chose the sidewalk over the streets. And, you just can't run 'fast' on the sidewalk with all the ups and downs on curbs, etc. I'll do some faster running on town lake trail, but I don't like to 'have' to drive 15+ minutes to run, so I go for convenience.

This summer we are trying Flagstaff, so it is high 7,000 feet. I will probably do some treadmill work for higher intensity or turnover/fartlek type workouts.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

I think that one of the biggest contributors that 'sport' can have/add, but might not always add, is the people aspect of it. When I was in engineering, a lot of the managers were there not because of how they could deal with people. 'Most' of them were there because they were good at what they did...which a lot of times was engineering. They were terrible with people. And, of course there was a 'technical' and 'managerial' track, but that really didn't mean anything. Is it a reflection on where I worked, probably.

So, I do think that those who want to remain technical have to stay in the field 9 out of 10 times. And, it does depend on the type of engineering, do you want to do hard/technical engineering or soft/paper engineering. For the latter, I think that you can take a break and get those skills back. One of the biggest thing that engineering or maybe even college for that matter teaches is how to think, certainly a lot of people don't go to engineering school because they are good with people. Generally speaking of course.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Do you do double runs or bikes(in one day)? what is your longest run-miles and longest bike/ brick? how many days a week do you swim? what size cranks do you and amy ride?
thnx and congrats!

I think that's true. One other thing that I'll add - and I'll credit Jim Gourley because he was the one who said it - is that in addition to the people side of things, there's also the "functional" aspect of things that I think you can develop outside of the field as long as you still maintain some level of interest (not sure if that's the right word) in the field. Basically, Jim's comment was that he thought I (thought I'm not sure) would have some value as a project-management/product-development type of guy with the capacity to say, "it's supposed to do THIS." Basically a functionality/usability/etc. type of person. I remember this was one of the best part of my summer job in college - as a race car mechanic. I remember my mentors there telling me, "engineers are great. They are the ones that design all this stuff. BUT, keep in mind that according the engineers, nothing should ever break. But it does. And when it does, they just care about why. But we need to figure out how to fix it, whether we know why or not." And I've tried to never lose that aspect of practicality. One of the reason I train on "race wheels" all the time is that when people say, "are Zipps durable?" I can say, "yes, and not just because they pass some CEN fatigue test for braking/impact/whatever - which they do. It's because they do all that AND because guys like me go out and put thousands of miles on them riding all kinds of roads in all kinds of conditions relying on them every day in training."

i tried to allude to that in my Quarq post - ultimately, it's about how fast you go, not how low your VI is or how many watts you produce. It's about results. And I think that can be a value. I think Apple has done the best job of demonstrating this in a major way in the "real world." Apple computers - generally speaking - SUCK from a specifications standpoint. They, generally, have worse everything (except battery life and - maybe - LCDs) than the equivalent PC. And they are more expensive. BUT, people want them. I love mine. And the reason is that they "work." Apple basically killed spec. Processor speed, etc. just doesn't matter. Battery life does, which is why I think it's one spec that Apple cares about. And Apple has even created new specs. Like weight. Until the Macbook Air, "weight" wasn't really a spec that people cared about the way they do now.

And I think that's also one area where having a job like being a pro triathlete can be an asset. As much as it's great to have the fastest bike, wheels, helmet etc - I love to geek out over that stuff - you still have to train hard and win. Now, I certainly don't agree with the luddites who seem to view the two as mutually exclusive. It's not either/or. And I think that a guy like you (and hopefully me too) really understands that. And I think that also has a huge value in "the real world."

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Generally speaking, and I think that I posted one or two of these types of answers.

I might do 1 double run a week. My longest run so far has been just over 20 miles. Again, I was 20 weeks into a new 'program' for IMTX. So, I don't know how things might change moving forward.

My longest bricks were two half-ironman races. I'm not being cryptic, but that's what they were. I would do a 'transition' run after my long rides, but it was short.

My swim frequency is also pretty high, even for someone who comes from a swimming background. Not an elite swimming background, but a swim background nonetheless. 5-6 days a week. You will find this to be the case for almost all good professional triathletes.

I have done double-bikes in the past. I have had my athletes do double bikes. For the athletes I coach, it is because they can fit 2x1 hour and not 1x2 hour. I know that there are critics who will disagree, and disagree strongly at that. And, those critics may have some very very good results. And, maybe a double bike workout will show up in the rest of my season. But, I don't think that a double bike is much better than a single longer ride. I can see both sides of the story, but at times I think that 2 rides in a day leads to 2 mediocre rides as opposed to one really good one especially in an IM build.

I ride 170mm cranks. Amy rides the same.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

**rationalization alert**

Apple sells because white people love them. Apple was able to build a sense of community with their products. You're cool because you own an Apple product. It's got nothing to do with the products working or not. It's all about marketing.

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The Triathlon Squad

Like us on Facebook!!!

Thanks branden and congrats to you guys. I'm sorry if this was mentioned, but i was curious who is coaching you guys now?
Good luck with the next race.

As much as I hate it when other people do this on posts...

This guy ^^^^^

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

I think Apple has made itself cool and part of an image. But like JR says, their products work pretty well. I think the general Apple user just wants a computer they can turn on and use, and they love going to a Genius who can help them out. And the whole Apple store phenomenon is just phenomenal--it cams at a time when Gaetway lost their ass in retail.

Anyway, I think there are many instances where double workouts can be helpful. In other sports like swimming, double workouts are standard. I don't really know how to reconcile that with the high quality needed from most bike workouts. The practical nature of doing two workouts so that you can get in the miles is obvious. But I feel like you lose a bit of time to warmup and warmdown. It's been difficult for me to deal with this and the fatigue aspects of this type of training. I don't know if you have any words of wisdom, BM, but I'd like to hear what you have to say about this a little more.

Rapp, you can do the PhD program. I think getting a PhD is the greatest academic pursuit available--moreso than the MD/PhD. The level of focus and expertise developed is amazing. But it does require careful planning, focus, and the ability to adapt when things go wrong--they always do. So I applaud your interest, JR, but just make sure you have a burning desire to succeed if you decide to apply.

I guess I do a double or triple on most days :) My thoughts for bike/run are kind of as follows...
- Run it can help for mileage or to loosen up for the next day or for a PM workout. I think if some athletes try to do a hard double run, they open themselves up for a greater injury chance. And, I'd rather do or see people do 1x60minutes vs. 2x30minutes...unless they are for some reason really focusing on frequency. But, that is something that Jon Warren from Houston told me years ago when I ran with his club in college.
- Bike, I just feel like my first workout suffers a bit since I know I have another one later if it is hard, unless one of them is 'just' for mileage. Or the second one ends up suffering if the first one is a really smashing workout. So, I would rather spend more time at one time on my bike. Again, there are some very good athletes who do a lot of double rides.
- Bike/Run, I think that for some age groupers, it can make sense to do a hard bike and run on the same day. As long as recovery is ok...like at least 2 days of easy/very easy runs or rides. Swimming most AGers should not really do too easy since 'most' aren't doing much more than 9-10k a week...so it needs to count.

The fatigue aspect is individual, but I think that for most age groupers, trying to fit in 1 track workout, 1 tempo run, 1 long run, and the equivalent bikes is too much. I mean there are no secrets really, but it doesn't all have to get done in one week! And, I do think that for cycling a shorter warm-up and certainly cool down can be done. The first interval of any sucks, so while it counts, it's really just an extension of warm-up.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Why is that?

A wetsuit changes your stroke. Or at least a lot of times it makes you more aware that you are using certain muscles. It changes your body position. So, for these reasons, if you have a wetsuit legal race coming up you should swim in your wetsuit. Warm-up in it and take it off after warm up. It doesn't have to be in open water, but clearly the open water training helps.

It's the same as riding on race wheels in training. They handle differently. I'm not saying use them all the time, but use them some. It can be the leading in to the race, or just some random time. Yeah, you're going to look like a dork, but if you want to eliminate race day surprises, then use the race wheels in training.

And running too. We have migrated to rotating through one or two pair of shoes and one of those pairs is going to be what we race in.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |