Definition of lap from dictionary.com:

"To wrap or wind around (something); encircle."

How does one length encircle?

Not a comment to you particularly...just crazy logic.

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Adrian in Vancouver

I coach in Mesa, and of all the coaches in Arizona, Charlie has got to be the most interesting to talk to on deck. Not to mention one of the most knowledgeable.

Your name is still in some of the meet records, and your name has come up a few times in conversations. I have a rather odd ability to remember partial names, although it took a swimming-type questions to jog it this time.

Dave

Chuck was by far my favorite coach for the reason you specified, most knowledgeable. When you asked, "why are we doing this en2 set", he told you, in detail. I loved the details of it all.

My brother and I got experimented on a lot when we were there (both bcreager, I'm Bill, he's Brent), new sets, new methods, the works, it was great. His coaching methods and my training style worked very VERY well together, fastest I ever swam!

How long have you been coaching at Mesa? Knew the old school Mesa coaches pretty well (Todd and Steve) since Gauchos had a mesa convert in Marvin.

-bcreager

Keep reading, AJ...

It's the mile damnit! We're not being 'technical.' If we were, it wouldn't be the 'Tour de France.' It would be the 'Tour de France, sometimes Belgium, sometimes Germany.'

As the pope said about The Passion of the Christ:
It is as it was.

a lap is from one end to another. Even dictionary.com says so, so they must be right, right? This debate is growing old, let's get back to whether or not Lance uses drugs.

My sister is marrying a Turley, who swam in Mesa. Do you guys know the Turley's? And he says a 50 is 2 laps! Damnit!

Im gonna have to say, as an American swimmer, a lap from one end to the other, aka 25yards. I agree with whoever said you would get laughed at if you said a 50 was a lap, unless it's a 50 meter pool. In college I swam with people from all over the country and they all said lap for a 25. Dictionary be damned.

As far as 50's, my best in HS was 22.4 and I never swam it in college. The best guy on our college team went 19.7, about 6 guys were 20.9 or better. Now my old team has a 19.3, 19.6, 19.9, and 20.2. Absolutely unbelievable. Auburn won this year's 200 free relay with an average of 18.9.

Definition of lap from dictionary.com:

Partial Credit for using a dictionary. Keep reading. See "Lap-2, Noun 2(b)". You cannot retake this test, but I can prepare another.

If you can hold that pace for 1.5K you'll be ok.

PR is 23.17 at age 32 (started at age 26).
My first 50 free ever in a meet was 26.59; can anyone top that?

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"Go yell at an M&M"

"I'm confused. Doesn't your 50-yard time (be it lap or length) suggest a faster IM than 1:20?"

While there may be some small correlation from technique, you're talking apples and oranges here. One is a strictly anaerobic event and the other is purely aerobic. It's like saying that the World Record holder for the 100m on the track should be a hell of a Marathoner.

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

hardly any correlation between 50 time to how you'd do in an IM swim. there are tons of distance swimmers i can beat in a sprint that would totally destroy me in an IM swim. likewise, i'm sure there are a good amount of sprinters who have no capacity to swim over a long distance. i wouldn't worry about what you can do for a 50, and focus more on holding a constant pace during longer swims.

ooops.

a 50yds is not strictly anaerobic

an IM is not stricly aerobic either

just for the record...

"a 50yds is not strictly anaerobic

an IM is not stricly aerobic either"


Yes...I was using a bit of "literary license" there...I should have known someone would have called me on it.

Haim

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"Sometimes you need to think INSIDE the box!" -- ME
"Why squirrel hate me?"

I think a 35 is fine. I coach an 11 year old girl who just recently did a 33.5...for a 50 breast (perfect start and turns). But honestly, how important is this one effort (from the water, right?)? I bet if you worked on it you could get below 30 in short order (turns and starts are something you can work on that help time drop quick).

22.34 relay split at age 19 (nobody caught the false start!), but I was an IM and breaststroker, so I never swam 50 free again.

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"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM

I guess we should be swimming with the 12 year olds. Maybe Tom's model will come swim with us??

I did 35 this afternoon on a fast 50 at the end of my workout. I missed my flip turn (trying to learn how to do those things) so I may have lost a second or two....

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TheBikeRacer.com

20.9 in college relay split. 21.4 standing (or bent over) start.

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fka: bassman

After the swim, I'm a fish outta water.

A whole bunch of you folks were very fast swimmers--for 50yards at least. For all of you folks under :30 for that 50 yards, how did you do in the 500 (back then) and where do you come out now in a non-wetsuit ironman?



On the lap/length issue--I agree with Jill. The debate rages on and there is no correct answer if usage is a valid way of defining meaning.

I was 4:44 in the 500 (that's 20 laps, not 10!) not too long ago, but seems like ages ago.

I've never done a non-wetsuit Ironman swim, but i'm usually around 50 minutes, depending on the conditions. Could probably be faster, I just don't put in the time.

I've been trying to lose this swimming weight actually, it's a tough load during the run.

500? Slow: I swam a 5:40 or so when I was 16. My great unattained goal when I quit at 17 and the one big goal I would have if I get more into Masters is to do a sub 2-minute 200. That is like the equivalent of a sub 5 min. mile or sub 3 marathon, or a sub 5 hour half IM or a 5-hour Century etc. etc. my list of average joe tri. goals goes on and on.

23.1 sec 50 yd.

Very little correlation between 50m and the 1500m unless you are a high mileage swimmer. My events were the 50m and 100m freestyle and I trained extremely low mileage per week. As a result I would die in the longer distances. In an Oly race I come out of the 1500m swim in about 19'30".

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Adrian in Vancouver

On 30K+ a week in the pool, my short course yards bests were:

Free-
50- 26.9
100- 58.7 (never really got to swim it untapered though)
200- 2:07.2
500- 5:41
1000- 12:00 (aaaarrrrggghhh! I wanted to be like 11:57 so bad)
1650: 19:52

back-
50- 30 high
100- 1:05-1:06
200- 2:22

In college, that would usually get me somewhere between 9th and 12th at MIAA league meet, which was pretty much an average D3 league.

Haven't done an IM distance swim yet, but these days I'll end up in the first 10 women out of the water at some of the smaller local races, and the top 15% or so at bigger ones. Lots of that comes from swimming smart and not letting conditions or other people bother me in open water. I think I'll average about 5K in season these days because my bike and run need the workout time so much more.

I think this is a transatlantic difference. Stateside a lap is a length. Over here in the UK a lap is a circuit i.e. two lengths.....

So why isn't a slower swimmer said to be "lapped" until the faster swimmer is two laps ahead? :D

IIRC correctly, in swim meets, the starter always uses the term "length" as in "100 yard freestyle, 4 lengths of the pool, step up on the blocks, take yer mark, BEEEP

Back in the day I was decent at the distance stuff. I actually breathed on 2s and had the same stroke rate for the 50 as I did for the 500.....I was a 400IM 500FR type of guy.

Free
50 - no idea, don't think I ever did it
100 - 47
500 - 4:31
1650 - 15:30

IM
200 - 1:55
400 - 3:56

haven't done an Ironman swim yet, just started this tri-game. Swimming is suffering these days too....stupid work gets in the way of doing 5 hours of workouts a day.

-bcreager

Back then I was under 5 once, and averaged somewhere around a 5:05-5:10 in season for the 500. I did a 17:00 for the 1650. About the 22 for the 50, it was honestly the most flagrant false start I ever got away with. I was a 50.8 for the 100, so 23.5 was more my speed. Breast and IM were my forte, and being short, I wouldn't have a chance most sprints against my 6'6" teammates, so I didn't swim 50-100 often. My best IM split is 55, but I haven't done one without a wetsuit, so I cannot tell you about it. Almost all those times were 20 years ago, the 55 IM is within the last 2 years. My fastest 500 in the last 3 years is a 5:17, I average more like 5:25-5:30. If I had done a IM swim back in the days of my youth, I have no idea what it would have been, but I would like to think it would have been faster. (I did an OLY my sophomore year ('84) and split an 18:02 for the swim, but the bike and the run made me forget how good the swim felt)

BTW the 1650 is 66 laps.

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"Maybe you should just run faster..." TM

>And let's finally settle this for all you non-swimmers. A lap is from one end to the other.

LOL!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

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"Race day is a celebration of your training"