Yikes. How much is 1 day usat? Any of that going to charity?

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My Strava | My Instagram | Summerville, SC | 35-39 AG | 4:41 (70.3), 10:05 (140.6) | 3x70.3, 1x140.6 | Cat 2 Cyclist

I don’t understand the complaint.

Does the race organizer have some sort of monopoly?

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

As someone that has done this great sport since 1994, the prices and value are just no longer acceptable for me.

was 16.80 with processing fee

On the surface: extremely steep. (it's what...$155 for the race plus processing and the $15 one day?) But, some questions.


1.) Where?
2.) Closed bike course? Closed run course? Special location?
3.) Permits? Police cost?
4.) Anything else *besides* the race included in that cost?

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Is this an IM-operated 5150 series event? Tremblant sprint felt like it was close to this a couple of years ago.

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CalTri has both their SoCal ones (LA and Newport Beach) at $90 (so probably about $115 after fees + 1 day USAT). Not cheap, but not nearly $200 (their Olympic distances are less than $25 more too).

There is a local half distance Aquabike costing, can’t remember exact numbers but around $250


They also offer a 56 mile time trial for approx $80

And a 1.2 mile swim for approx $60

Hunh?!???

uuugh, can't imagine what a relay would cost if I want to race with my kids ~300?

sure limiting the field - if you're young or don't have a lot of disposable income, nothing to see here

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Great things never come from comfort zones.

My son is the triathlete in the family although he talked me into doing my first in June. Very fortunate to have the Wisconsin Tri Series close to us. Signed him up for the series in early October when the rate was lowest. Ended up being 7 sprints for $344.84. A bargain at $49.26/race. My feeling after being around the series for a couple years is that they are very well organized and ran. The biggest downside (is it really?) is that they aren’t USAT sanctioned events.

He’s doing a few USAT events as well including age group nationals and those jump up over $100 in a hurry.

and that is the bigger problem here... at this cost competition is just going to IM style races since it is close to that price. This is a non IM corp race

Maybe, we are a month out from IM oz and Port 70.3 both of these sold out races can be entered. The cash cow for IM, dudes over 35 are doing other things.

Sprints at close to $200 won't bring them back or bring heaps of new people in

$187 sounds pretty steep to me. What is the course like? A crystal Lagoon that is only open to swimmers only day a year on race day with a race entry? A newly paved road through a natural wonder that is closed to all traffic on race day? What is the competition like? What is the swag like. I think the most I have paid for a sprint was about $100 but the course was no natural wonder. I did a race that was not USAT sanctioned in the home town of my father-in-law for $45. It was as well organized and attended as any USAT certified race I have done. I didn’t count to my USAT rank but I keep telling myself that I am supposed to be doing races for the enjoyment of the sport so ranks shouldn’t be a focus. Ya… I have seen races put on by people who I know and I decide to do them to support friends. Then I see the price and pass on the race.

USAT Nationals Sprint is $179 plus whatever fees. Certainly a lot but reasonable in my opinion for the nature of the event. I wouldn't want to pay that for a small local race though of course. Sprint entry fees around $100 now in Colorado, less if you register far ahead.

Exactly. This is me. I have just gone 12 months since my last race which was Melbourne 70.3 in March 2022.

The cost to join triathlon australia isn’t showing any value like it did. The insurance is worthless yet we have to pay it.

Then races are for the only series within 300kms.

Don’t forget the $30 TA fee and then the one day licence which is $15 on top of the prices below.
Sprint (750m/26.7km/5km)$99.00
Olympic (1.5km/40km/10km)$140

Need to move to Wisconsin. A series like that for just under $50/race!

I would say the only downsides for not being USAT sanctioned are not being scored. So those races wouldn't get him into AG Nats or work towards pro qualifying if he was at that level. There's gotta be a fix to that because we should be encouraged to race a local series like this, instead of worrying if it's USAT sanctioned or not.

$187 does sound like a lot for a Sprint but 70.3s are $400 now. So if a Sprint is that much and offers a closed course/incredible venue I could be tempted.

Thats why I stay out of big compannies races. Local races prices are around 300 for a full, sub 100 for half, and around 30/40 for a sprint.

Did an Ironman once, it was nice, but not worth spending an amount that buys you a great familly trip for a weekend.

This was my thought, too. Is it a lot of money? Absolutely. What do you get for it? A sprint on an open bike course, and a run in the park with a pylon every 200m to mark the course? Not remotely worth it. Good location, closed bike course, nice run course, good water for swimming. There might be a market for that as a destination type race.

On ST we're not really the main demographic for race organizers. When you go to a sprint it seems like it's at least 50% people who are going to do one event that year and they've been working toward it for months. They would probably pay $190 for a race if it's the one local to them and the only one they're doing all year.

There is give and take and it’s generally why you have seen the independent full become almost instinct cus that $300 full is going to have 48 people racing in it and be very “boring” and people come to the conclusion (along with the RD), it’s not worth anyone’s time to have that type of event.

I always kinda cringe at “omg this sprint is so expensive” yet so many other options out there generally, to compare. And then when pressed on what makes the race so expensive it’s crickets. That kinda narrative I think kinda doesn’t help. I mean I’m sure there are parts of the world where race prices are stupidly expensive, just as I’m sure there are areas of the world where ppl race for $70-$100 sprints.

One of the longest tenured sprints on the east coast (1500m current aided swim / 12mi B. / 5k R) is $85 total charges ($15+ if need 1 day insurance). That’s probably in line with the normal costs of good run sprint these days. That’s one of setup events most popular events of the year.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I’ll never forget trifed coming to town in 1986. And for reasons I don’t fully understand, overnight, our local low budget well established sprint and oly tri entry fee doubled from $20 to $40+plus an insurance policy no one really understood. Gone was the liability signature on the entry form. At the time there were more local tris than 5k’s. It was then that the triathlon explosion here started dying, and hasn’t recovered to this day. Within 3 years, all the tri local events died. As the tris died, the local $10 - $15 every weekend 5k’s took over. Leading up to the fall $20 half marathon, and $40 full marathon. As someone who was in the middle of it all that, the triathletes just migrated to different affordable events. Fast foreword to 2023, and after a 2002-2021 four race triathlon resurgence here (@ $65 + USAT + fees)… there is only one left. So what are folks doing here now? The local tri club is holding what they call “mock tris” each month… for the cost of the years membership, they just meet up and R/S/B for fun. The local free Park Run 5k every Saturday morning is exploding. Pickle ball is going absolutely nuts at every club and gym and even churches and a dedicated night club and bar, and courts all over town, and they are even converting city tennis courts to pickle ball courts. My wife and I got into this, and for a $40 starter pack 2 years ago, we can go play for free all day, all over town.

I’ve also noticed that the local running scene is coming up with a very workable and affordable recipe for some of the big local races that were declining. Now, just about every expensive well established half or full marathon, is also including a 5k, 10k, and kids run, and numbers are picking up. Races that had declined into the 500 or so folks are now getting over 2000 folks with entire families getting involved. And a lot of the shorter distance fast guys are showing up… who wouldn’t do a well organized 5k for $30?

Another thing I witnessed recently is happening right now in Salina Kansas. They are having a fall full marathon, along with 5k,10k, half. They advertised in Feb, that the first 20 entrants were free. I got in for free. Then they started having a corporate sponsor advertising battle… and advertised $5 entry fees for all races, with local businesses covering the rest. Word got out, and as of last week, in a little nowhere town in nowhere Kansas, they have over 1100 entry’s from all over the US, and still growing, for a small town race that isn’t until November.

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Athlinks / Strava

In France, we are fortunate enough that 99.9 % of the Sprints and Olys are (very well) run by not-for-profit organizations (tri clubs) and, as a result, entry fees are kept around $15-20 and $30-40 respectively. Short distance athletes can race a lot without breaking the bank.

Woooow!!

I did race a local sprint in Spain 4 years ago, and the entry fee was indeed laughable (20-25 euros, with a decent quality singlet included in the race package). Closed roads, including an important coastal road along Costa Del Sol in a period that was already getting busy (May). And yes, it was organized the local club (shout out to Club Triatlon Benalmadena).

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"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden

i mostly agree, i'll only add that everyone i've heard from who runs events says that their costs have gone way, way up this year. couple that with lower turnout and difficulty in finding volunteers and it's not hard to imagine why prices are creeping up.

i get it - i was a race director when i was younger and put on a dirt cheap, cheerful race. and i'm generally a fan of low-frills high-adventure events. but i can see why even well-established races are going extinct or raising prices.

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https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

I sometimes cringe when I read about how cheap run races are when talking about tri issues.

Hell our tri store whos been in biz for almost 30 years now, we put on 3 events (we have a 4th one - a half ironman that I think is going to stop after this year because it's just too much on the business to run and execute and numbers are struggling):

Spring half/full marathon that is $70
Summer sprint triathlon ~$75 (more as it gets closer obviously)
Turkey ~5mi trot ~$30 walk up fee

The costs of the tri includes a "close" course. The 2 run events have very little costs and 1/8th the police numbers that are needed. And the crazy part about all of it......You know who tells you what you need to do when you want to do the race? The local govt directs you on every aspect of using the public roads. You dont get to show them "hey we will have X volunteers at each turn"....it's nope you will be required to pay for X cops or you dont get the permit. There is zero negotiation, there is zero bargaining. If you want the permit, this is what it requires.

So I think it's a bit unfair to talk about how great run events are and how cheap they are when in reality they likely come no where close to the costs of hosting events that tris do.

eta: I'll stick up for the sport of triathlon. At the local level I think very few RD's/races are trying to "fleece" athletes. I think they are all dealing with real world costs that at some point have to be accounted for. So if that means our sport dries up eventually, then at some point...fine. Like at some point, if the issue is there are tons of other cheaper options, cool. Tris won't win that argument. So I guess we'll all see ya in 15 years on the newest cheapest fad sport (no way it'll be pickle ball....it'll likely be some AI virtual sport).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

April Fool's? Very impressive if it is. Lots of details and included a processing fee to snag everyone.

If not a joke, is not sign up. That's crazy expensive.

The processing fee cannot be ignored. Anyways did a test check out came out to 185, dont know why it I got 187 last time or maybe that is my reading error

Can you link the race details?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Ya’ll suck at the Google:

https://www.active.com/...cdg=affiliate-254301

Exact price there.

Either way, feels like they’re drumming up the dollar spend on fringe benefits for the event.

Santa Barbara? yeah it's gotten pricey.
Malibu is more like $220.

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Just for some international context,my old mate and Kiwi ex-pro tri geek Brendon Downey runs the biggest triathlon series in Queensland and here are the prices for his hugely popular events. They are obviously in Aussie dollars so at the current exchange rate $100 AUD is worth $66.74 USD The "Classic Distance" listed is 2k/60k/15k the rest you should already know.
The Event Crew

Today I paid $183.50 for a sprint BUT it’s a week away. So I paid, literally and figuratively, for signing up late. I’m a USAT member so I didn’t have to pay the one day fee. The entry fee was $160. Then they hit me with $23.50 for fee, etc. That’s what kind of gets me - the extra fees. But I wanted to do the race so I paid it.

RP

I would think it would be worth it to see where the triathletes are going, when they’ve had enough tri, can’t afford it, or the sport dries up in their area. Running races are where I still meet up with the folks I used to race tris with, some of us going back 40 years. Some have gravitated to the group rides out of the LBS, and gravel seems to be the growing thing there. Most of my tri friends have done an IM event or two, but that’s more and more becoming a one and done, or fond memories. Especially when you realize that you can put $100 a month, for two years, into the local running or cycling scene, for the cost of one IM trip. I love triathlon, and still train at an IM level, for health and fitness. But for this old retired guy on a pension, the racing has pretty much gotten out of reach.

Running races used to be feeder events for potential triathletes. But it’s been a long time since I’ve seen any tri advertising outside of very specific social media. I see many young folks at running events, or even at the gym, who don’t even know what a tri is.

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Athlinks / Strava

I am where you are at, triathlon becoming a self identity , but now feeling it will be a thing of the past

Living here in Indiana we've been very fortunate to have reasonably affordable race entry fees.
Bought a place in Florida and have done quite a few races down there this winter and the fees are easily twice if not more than here in IN.
I chalk it up to higher permits costs, police etc.....

just paid $175 for a sprint tri in FL a few weeks ago, i was visiting relatives and wanted to do an early season race. got overall podium but no award other than silly medal (almost same as finisher medal.) also noted that the $15 online reg fee goes to a company that appears to be owned by or synonymous with the race director...thats not cool is it? remember when some race fees were reasonable (bikereg @3%, or mail-in reg for the cost of a stamp)
as the OP stated this just isn't sustainable, the value is gone. i could race a month's worth of CX races for that price, or easily find an open water swim event, bike race and 5k for half that amount.

And what about a triathlon that charges you $130 for a VIRTUAL tri. Same entry fee as the in person option (swim in a pool and then multi loops run/bike course)...
With that said it takes place at a high school so I'm hoping it's actually a fundraiser but it's not specified anywhere.

Running races will always be a feeder system to tri for the simple fact it’s naturally the next thing you do when you get bored of running (the reverse of your explanation). Single sport running to tri is likely the overwhelming #1 pathway into triathlon, likely always has been and always will be.

But again I think the issue is running is easy. It’s cheap. Tri is never going to be either of those by default. And again I don’t think it’s some internal memo “let’s fleece” everyone and cause the sport to dry up. So if that means the sport dries up, then so be it. At some point putting on 3 events on public properties and using public resources is costly. There is no way around that yet you’ll compare it to a run race that is renting a public park and complain about costs of tri? It’s almost disingenuous to compare the 2 because it’s no where close to a fair comparison. That’s what I’ll push back on.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I paid $50 for the first tri I've ever done. Olympic distance. Roads were total crap, police support virtually non existent, saw multiple instances of driver aggression towards racers - more police support would have probably prevented this. Always said after that race that I would gladly pay triple or more just to guarantee a bit more support and maybe some better roads to ride on. I still feel that way. Did a 70.3 later in the year and it's pretty clear where that money goes to. Wasn't perfect, but it was a much better experience. They are probably overcharging a bit, but not by much I can't think. A super cheap tri is always going to make me raise an eyebrow now.

That sounds like your typical local tri experience. Closed courses are almost non existent outside of IM events and police support is basically only going to be at intersections yet at times traffic control can still be up in the air.

But that’s just it. Local permits will force the race to have required police support at intersections yet not even required to do a “good job” actually at it. They can easily just sit in their car and do nothing just have their lights on and the race has no recourse from that.

We are putting on a race 3hr away in an “vacation” destination and we are running into that’s just how the “locals” do it (they don’t manage the intersections they iust sit in their car w lights on). And they’ll lol at us asking for them to do better for sake of safety. They have us over the barrel. Push back too much and they’ll pull the permit. End of race in that area. we had an issue at an intersection last year and the local police force shrugged their shoulders.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

We are looking at it from two different sides. You have a product, and are wanting me to spend money on it. And I have the wallet, and am trying to decide what to spend my money on. So from the consumers side, it’s absolutely fair to compare anything to anything, to convince me to get money out of my wallet, and give it to you. As that consumer, I’m a lot less concerned about how much someone has put into their product, and a lot more concerned about the value I get from my money. This is why things come and go and prosper and flop.

The guy who put on our two biggest local tris, is a friend, an IM, and co owner of a local race/timing company. I think the most I ever paid for his triathlons, was $60. Even at that, the numbers were falling, and during the summer, the company is busy putting on multiple running events every weekend. He’s never come right out and said it, but it was pretty obvious to me, that the tris were either loosing money, or not making enough, to divert attention from their bread and butter running events. It’s sad really, because I loved those triathlons. But on the flip side, he’s still the RD or timer for many of the running races I still do, with many of the same athletes competing.

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Athlinks / Strava

Just my opinion but the second life for triathlon is coming now and it is a bit different from the first life. Kids are doing the sport and taking it seriously. In my sons swim team quite a few kids are swimming SO they can be good at triathlon.

I don’t know how it is going to shake out but I foresee weekend events that cost a bit more money and multiple races being the way the sport evolves.

I’ll tell you this for fun, here is some of the local talent:

Boys:
12 yr old twins, both 5:20 ish in 500 free, 5:18 in the 1600
12 yr old, 5:00 in the 500 free, 5:30 in the 1600

13 yr old girl, 5:30 in 500 free and 5:20 in the 1600

Yes and my point is if you are comparing running to triathlon on a "basic" level, run s99 out of 100 times is more value because there is less cost on the "sellers" end which then makes you the consumer happy. Thus if I the product have more fixed costs, well no duh your costs to do my product are more. And thus the "value" has to be raised. IM brand has value, that's why they can charge what they charge. But the local po dunk RD and races, they have to not only deal with more fixed costs but also just simple, their product will always be inferior, it's why it's "local". Most local events are put on by the mom and pop fly by night production.


Our biggest local RD, who puts on an 5k event 48 out of 52 weekends (they put on 6 triathlons vs 6x the amount of run events), cringes when he has to put on triathlons because it's way more work. I always laugh at him "when you going to become a run only race production", he jokes "closer today than last year that's for sure".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Race production is hard and expensive. I've been involved with running, tri, cycling events over the decades, and have seen all the balance sheets

Short version: it's not lucrative.

I've done the race that started this thread, as well as the other races in the series put on by the same production company. I have to say they do a really good job of making the course safe. In some cases that's closed roads, in others it's giving plenty of space and cones and police traffic support where a road can't be closed completely. I've always felt safe and able to just focus on racing when I was doing their races. I assume a lot of their costs are associated with that, and I don't mind paying for it.

The cost does keep me from doing every one of their races every year, but I just choose my favorites. I'd rather do 2 or 3 safe races every year than 6 where I'm worrying about being hit by a car.

Are we supposed to keep the location and the company a secret? We are talking about San Diego, and the company is Koz Eventz.

My first triathlon was one of their events, Spring Sprint and this was back in 2015 or 2016 I think. They put on some really good events, and I've always felt safe. But yeah, the prices have gone up significantly and I have to be more selective on which races I will do, whereas in the past I'd just do all of them.

I think RDs also need to ask about the value added when making their event a USAT sponsored event. Is it worth making a 500yd, 12 mi, 5k with an expected attendance of 200-300 a sponsored event. I'm sure there are costs and requirements that USAT demands for this branding. Passing that cost to racers is fair, but are you hurting your event more than helping? I've done several of these and I'm not sure I see the value of the branding. Sure, it can count for points to rankings and nationals, but these type of small venue, small attendance races are mostly attended by locals doing their first event, relays doing the same, youths, and some serious racers from the area. They're not destination races and the list of hometowns show that. I'm sure there are behind the scenes reasons for going with a branded event, but knowing your product and the target audience make more sense to me, thus keeping RD costs down and the registration costs for 1 day licenses down. Just my $0.02.

Maybe someone can explain the value added for such small events and cost savings if USAT is not involved. Are we talking saving $20 per racer + 1 day license fees, more than that, less?

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Great things never come from comfort zones.

Just paid pretty much the same - $175 for race + fees to get to $186. For the race I'm doing, the bike portion is pretty much closed to traffic, which is a bit unusual for a sprint, so that probably makes the cost a bit higher. Race is where I grew up, and always like going back to race, so didn't really consider not doing it.

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Blog: http://262toboylstonstreet.blogspot.com/
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I don't think it's a secret; someone posted a link earlier in the thread. Spring Sprint was my first tri too (2017 I think). SDIT is my favorite because I like the bike ride out to Cabrillo. Mission Bay is my second favorite.

New organizers took over ~4 years ago. As for closed course, yes they pay for that, but sdpd traffic control can do better (they don't have real police standing at crossings, real ones on Motos), so there have been incidents

Active charged a $40 processing for IM Blue Ridge this year.
$500 all in all for race reg, USAT renewal, and processing fee

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Local to me tri and du was affordable and a nice friendly well done local race.

I won the du. Small field, so nothing special or noteworthy.

Will never do again and would willing pay $50 to $75 more entry fee for better roads control.

The oly tri and du 40k bike had like 2 miles out and back right by the entrance to the state park where the start finish was. Like, one of THE busiest 55mph two lane roads in the area.

In my return part if ride I’m fearful being hit in heavy traffic that’s also mixed with racers.

Horribly dangerous scenario. Sometimes location and safety are worth the cash.

Problem with that venue is regardless of which side of the park you race in (spring race does one side and fall race is on other side with a different race organizer and neither close the road), there is only 1 main road that you must use to get back into the parks. Which that road is sketchy and super busy and even with “police support” it’s still fully open roads. Of course this is small “local” races with at most what 300 people, so the capacity to do more just isn’t there. It’s an unfortunate issue because that area can take advantage of good terrain (hills) to make for good courses.

But that lake area likely has no where that’s “good” without riding on a major road(s). I guess they could look into Baptist Rd section but then you’d be crossing highway 98 which would be another big issue.

Triangle tri in June will have the busiest road closed to traffic (No Du option but there is a super sprint option).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

For the du or the oly make Baptist 2x out and back with a jaunt down to uturn on Santee Rd. Then no leaving the safer area. I often go ride TT bike that Baptist Rd. The local tri series operates out of the Baptist Rd park location.

Baptist is a great road except on the weekend when the weather is nice and people want to take their boat out. That being a boat entry means that road can be busy basically only with boaters on weekends when the park is open. I've seen a good friend get fillet'd by the boat trailer being pulled by a suburban about 8 years ago by Jordan Lake. The driver didn't recognize just how much more his trailer was wider than his big suburban pulling the trailer (sighs)

(Baptist is a great road to ride except during boating season which is prominent on weekends in spring and summer). When IOS had the Raleigh store, I led a group ride that rode from the store to Baptist Rd and back. Love that area to train in, but damn even that area has had some bad interactions over the last 2 years.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Did an Olympic bike-run last weekend. $179 before fees, before USAT. I've participated in races from the same organizer before, but last weekend was a poor value IMO. Bike course was coned as the inside lanes of a two lane road. Nothing scenic - strip malls and factories. Road surface was not terrible, but mostly rough. Run was a little more enjoyable, along a river, mostly, but nothing awesome. T shirt, medal, one can of beer. Food was a hot dog, chips, fruit, granola bar, soft drink. I guess what I'm most unhappy about...a few years ago, I won the cyclo-run (different event, same organizer). Got a very cool Hatch Show Print of the event, bunch of reasonable swag from sponsors. That print is framed in my office. This time? Well, the podium call up for the Oly bike-run was at the end of the sprint awards. Huh? I was 2nd - great! The award was a very inexpensive (disposable) backpack - same for everyone on the podium. Bleh. Worse? I get home (2 hr by car) and look at the results. Well, I actually *won* the Oly bike-run. These organizers act like they are newbies, but they have been doing this for 10 years or more. One of my friends got a call up for an AG 3rd. Great. Actual results? He was 6th or 7th (I've forgotten). Sorry for him and sorry for the athletes who left w/o a podium pic or prize (as cheap as that was). Did I mention that this was $179 + fees?

That bike course was one of the worse! It was heinously rough. Not sure why mats can't be put down on the railroad tracks.

I think they only give the Hatch prints at Music City. Have done three other locations and they didn't have the prints at those.

Yeah, just using the Hatch Show Print as an example of the difference in quality of awards. Yes, the RR tracks were bad, for sure!

I have a friend who is a Race Director and I ask him about the disparity in entry fee's from our home state of Indiana (mostly very reasonable) compared to Florida which like your race typically charge $120 plus for a sprint.
I figured the costs may be higher due to local govt fees etc....
He said nope, they charge it because they can.
He owns races all over the midwest and in Florida so I figure he knows.....

Florida was cheaper for me to race, but perhaps cause roads not fully closed when I did it.

Yep, worse than golf.