Me not I Me

The market thinks with justification a) the government is going to keep dumping money into the system b) there will be a treatment or vaccine by year end c) the only people really hurt truly hurt are bar employees everything else can and will be done with masks.

masks make everything but bars safe? airlines? movie theaters? concert venues? university classrooms? triathlons and marathons? (let me know if you need to know what those are.) amusement parks? indoor restaurants? cruise ships? you are telling me the market believes that all the customers and workers in these industries are safe if they wear masks? and that the rest of society will sooner rather than later catch up to their expertise and wisdom?

i don't justification for this. really, for any of what you list. that masks will safeguard all these other industries; that people will believe that fiction; that a vaccine will be shot into your arm and mine by year-end; nor that congress is going to pump another $4 trillion into the system. i rather guess that nobody's pumping any more money into the system without a lot of conditions that the white house won't agree to.

hence my sense that we might be where we were in feb, with the market happy talking to itself.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Nikola, a company that has no production, is selling a truck with no prototype and has promised losses for the next several years has a market cap higher than Ford.

I'd rather not have a vehicle then have a Ford, so, that sounds about right to me.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

...and now they're taking "reservations" ($5,000/per) for a truck that doesn't have a functional prototype let alone any visibility on a factory.

Dan with an N95 mask (preferably) on, all of the activities you listed can be done safely based on current transmission data except eating inside a restaurant (take out and delivery offset that somewhat as well as outdoor dining) and those weird sporting things I had to Google. Not to 100% capacity obviously but also not completely shutdown. A surprising number of people I know are still flying (I wouldn't BTW). Also racing is not that big a deal to the economy.

if the great majority of those who're trading the bulk of equities actually believes what you just wrote, then i'm definitely getting clear out of the market.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Dan the biggest thing is the dumping of money into the system via bailout etc.

Yes, it is time to be in cash (in my opinion). Some anecdotes and opinions follow:

https://www.yelpeconomicaverage.com/yea-q1-2020.html

Lots of gems in there, too much to discuss in a thread without basically replicating the report. Two key points that I would like to highlight: first, people in most of the U.S. radically changed their behavior, curtailing trips outside the home weeks ahead of any stay at home order. Second, a lot of the business closures from the lockdown were permanent.

The next thing I would point to is the personal savings rate


That move literally breaks the chart. We'll see where it settles but I believe it will remain persistently high. I believe we've entered into what Richard Koo calls a "balance sheet" recession: a phase in which households and private corporations wish to de-lever. Doing so reduces income. This cycle feeds on itself unless reversed. Further, our reactionary monetary policy has pushed the rate of return on risk-free (or even "low risk") assets to near-zero (this was the correct policy response). So now the expected rate of return going forward is even lower thus the increasing the present rate of savings (no way to make 5% on your money tomorrow thus the need to spend less and save more today).

"But Green, the stock market isn't the economy!" you say

That's true. It's not. However there's essentially no difference at this point in owning investment grade debt and holding cash. That leaves junk debt and equities. Within the junk market you could loan to own (if you're big and smart), sift through the junk to find the companies that will survive (if you're smart), or you could just blindly bet on the Fed stepping into the junk market. Which might happen... but know it's a bet.

That leaves equities where most of the market value is vested in a handful of companies. Said companies have very solid balance sheets and market positions but their profitability is potentially exposed to regulatory action. The future of the rest of the publicly traded companies is very much in question. The Fed can fix liquidity but it can't fix bad credit. Could the Fed buy equities? Sure, and I think they will at some point. However that day is not today and it will not happen until the Fed has 1.) a reason... like a crash... and 2.) political clarity. One of the ways I could see the Fed buying equities, btw, is by lending money to pensions at very low rates over very long time horizons (e.g. a ZCB century bond) and letting pensions bid up equities. Again, don't expect that response anytime soon.

That leaves us with policy risk to equities going forward. What are some likely policies we'll see post 2020? Higher corporate and personal income taxes? Probably. Will things with China get any better? Almost certainly not. Domestic increases to minimum wage? Likely. Domestic environmental initiatives? Likely. Somewhat on-balance I think some sort of universal, single-payer healthcare is actually likely which partially offsets the prior negatives for corporate profitability (outside of healthcare). Also, significant infrastructure investment should help employment and aggregate demand recover.

I'm in cash for the foreseeable future.

i sold everything today. all of it, with the exception of a little bit of CAT and AAPL. i feel like i got lucky just by breaking even on my airline stocks. i'd remain in the airline stocks if i knew, for pretty well certain, they wouldn't reorganize themselves out from under my positions. i had that happen with GM back in 2008 or 09 or whenever it was. i just think we're in for a much rougher summer and fall than the market thinks.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

We took out nearly everything on 5/11. Time to go with "good enough" rather than stressing about "most."

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----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

I'm staying put.

I've given up trying to predict either the 'Vid or humanity's response to it.

Though I'm younger than you, so can handle a "lost decade." Or two.

No. "I" is more traditionally correct. Add the verb to prove it - "what say you all who're smarter than I (am)."

You are correct. Windy has a hit rate of about 50% in correctness. Which is why I'm convinced we're just a petri dish in his experiment to deflect every thread into some tangential trivial discussion. (like this one, DAMMIT!)

I humbly submit I read the sentence wrong and was incorrect in my snarky post. I shall now accept the flagelletion without word.

We require a more heartfelt and robust apology, like this:

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I miss YaHey

Mother [Redacted]

At your age I'd be out.

You sold it all in one day based on a feeling. Wow. I am more than 50 percent in cash but that is a pretty big move.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

 

It's a good synopsis of the US market, but what about international?

I've been mostly out of US markets since last fall (about 30% in cash), but have maintained all my positions in international stocks (Indexes on Europe, Developed Asia and Emerging markets). I can see a scenario where the US continues to be a train wreck because people don't have the discipline or common sense to get control of COVID and at least until January the Federal government is beyond worthless. Meanwhile, it looks like the major EU nations, China, Japan, Australia have a handle on it. We could see the US get left in the dust while these other economies get somewhere back close to normal during the second half of the year. Those markets will still be down in absolute terms, but will perform way better than the US comparatively. It's also entirely possible this could be somewhat permanent, it might take 10 years for the US to catch back up.

I alos think there is some evidence that COVID will not hit developing nations as badly, because their demographics is younger (so less fatalities) and my personal view is even if they do get hit badly, China's emergence over the last 20 years was strongly influenced by one child policies in the 80s and 90s. It sounds bad, but culling the population in emerging markets could be a long term benefit for these economies because the populations have badly outpaced the ability to feed and house people and build infrastructure, so slowly population growth may help them catch up.

Nothing is certain, but I'd be interested to hear what your take is on the world wide picture.

i sold it all one day on a feeling. you're right. but i've been feeling this feeling for a couple of weeks. i just think we're kidding ourselves, as a country. here is what i wrote on february 28th:

"goldman sachs now sees a Q1 GDP of 1.2%. but it sees a Q2 of 2.7%, which is partly a pick-up from what will be lost in Q1. which i question, because i kind of think that Q2 might be worse than Q1, because factories have stock on hand now. it's Q2 when the supply chain problem will really hit U.S. manufacturers. but i digress and anyway what do i know?"

that seems pretty quaint now. point is, this is what goldman thought or, at least, what it publicly said. the dow was 25,400 on february 28th, pretty much what it is now. 3 weeks later it was at 18,500. of course you never know. this just feels now as it felt to me then, where you could sort of look at the data, the facts. except now i don't feel so sure that the govt is going to step in and spend another $4 trillion, because, 1) we've already spent $4 trillion; and 2) the administration chose to get rid of the oversight the democrats put in place in the spending bill; 3) the 5-4 SCOTUS just gave trump the right to fire any IG-type oversight he wants. so, i think it's a lot more likely the consumer is on his own, and employers are on their own, than they were at the beginning of this.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

The problem with the rest of the world is that they're all short dollars. It's hard for people to comprehend just how dominant the USD is trade, FX, etc. Here's what I'll say about international markets:

• Europe: zombie market made up of zombie corporations hitched to an export-heavy economic machine in an increasingly protectionist/nationalist world, declining demographics, and a huge north/south wealth split that will be very expensive to rectify.
• South America: uninvestable unless you're willing to roll the dice on Brazil but everyone I know from SA has no interest in investing in SA.
• MENA: eventually will return to the sand, barely hanging on to the oil age
• China: uninvestable. Do a little research into BABA and what you're really buying when you buy that ADR. Hint: it's not stock in Alibaba.
• Japan: stable but with really horrendous demographics so there's no domestic demand story. They've figured out the best way to export to markets with demand like the U.S. is to actually locate their factories there.
• India: uninvestable for now.

Maybe you take flyers on Indonesia, Thailand, The Philippines... but, again, the dollar shortage would scare me. Forward currency hedge would be way too expensive so you'd have to do it naked and hold the FX risk (which could work to your advantage if the dollar reverses but just keep in mind you have to get two things right instead of one). Mexico is my personal sleeper but buying Mexican government bonds isn't easy.

I guess everyone's situation is different based on age, etc..
I have a good 10+ before retirement (just turned 47), so I have some time to let things recover. I see it as a good buying opportunity for dividend paying stocks.
I'm in Canada (obviously), and I took advantage of the 30-50+% 'discount' compared to pre-covid, and bought into stocks like Suncor, Air Canada, Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce. Can't remember AC, but I believe the others pay dividends of 6+%. That plus the current low price, just seems like a no brainer. Yes, my already existing investments which were mostly in Canadian Dividend Mutual Funds, those are still down about 20% pre-covid, but I'm confident they will recover even if it takes some time. The stocks I bought into in late March/April, I got them cheap enough that I've made more on them so far than what I lost on my mutual funds. But I think they are still good buys even now.

With regards to real value of the stock market etc, I'm FAR from an expert, like really far, but correct me if I'm wrong, hasn't it been decades since the market really traded based on value?? :)

"Value" is a vague term. But if you quantify it as the price-to-earnings ratio, I wouldn't say we're far off the historical average. Other than the periods of insanity, like the ~2008 timeframe.

Though you could say we're due for one of those sub-10 corrections like in WWII and the late 70's/early 80's.

If it weren't for corporate debt levels and a divergence from GAAP accounting over the last 20 years I would agree that we are fairly valued given low interest rates... even if one were to expect a one-off 50% hit to earnings due to the pandemic. Over a long time horizon such a one-off event is pretty easily swallowed up.

My fear (hunch?) is that fragilities have accumulated and that the pandemic is the catalyst to realize those fragilities.

Just a general question, do you have the equivalent of a municipal tax sale auction? Up here it pays 6.99% of course the risk is that you might end up with the default property.

Maurice

Yes we do but it varies state by state. If you know what you're doing that can be a very good risk-adjusted return. In an economic environment like this I would say an investor should be prepared to pay at least two years worth of taxes and/or be prepared to foreclose on the property.

I'm wavering, at least for my retirement accounts. The market is definitely out of touch with reality.. Did you sell just retirement accounts or did you sell non-retirement accounts? If the latter, how did taxes play into your decision?

You made some good Canadian stock picks and there are some good dividend paying stocks to be bought. I’m older than you so I’m staying out but I think you’re making good choices.

That said, I think for capital gains purposes, the markets are way over valued and I see a lot of risk.

Everybody seems to be an expert economist these days. Like almost everybody has entirely discounted the possibility of inflation at some point. So people are going to sit in all cash. Great but when do they get back in? At least some diversification seems wise. It seems unwise to bet the farm on just one view of the future.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

i only sold my retirement accounts. but i didn't have anything else invested.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I sold all the non retirement accounts and just taking the tax hit this year. We are early 50s and have scaled back to part time so the regular income is way down. I am still looking at the long term (15+ years) for the 401Ks.

Everybody seems to be an expert economist these days. Like almost everybody has entirely discounted the possibility of inflation at some point. So people are going to sit in all cash. Great but when do they get back in? At least some diversification seems wise. It seems unwise to bet the farm on just one view of the future.


It's always been that way, people think they can time the market and pick the sleeper stocks. Sometimes they win, more often they lose.

I cashed in a few years ago, not to treat and get back in but to leave investing in stocks. I found little if any correlation between a company's performance and their stock price, everything was speculation. I think if you invest, long-term dividend stocks are best if you are young and can just leave your money alone.

And expert economists have been as wrong as they have been right so it's no badge of honour to think you are one of those. Common sense is the most important thing when investing so for me, much better to invest in my own business and property and leave investing in stocks to those inclined to gamble.

Anything's a possibility. But we've been fighting *low* inflation for over a decade now.

And the thing about cash is, it's incredibly flexible. If inflation ticks up, the response can be near immediate.

While unwinding other positions back to cash can be problematic for all sorts of reasons, taxes, taking losses, etc.

there's more to it. there's the psychology of it, at least for a guy like me. at times like this a line from patton comes to mind, "i don't like paying for the same real estate twice." if i miss a big market uptick, okay. that makes me a little ornery. but then, i never earned that money. if i earn it, fair and square, and i lose it thru speculation, that really grates on me. i have to earn it again, or wait until the caprice of the market favors my position.

i would rather wait, risk missing a big upward move, and invest in equities only when i see a very obvious buying opportunity. i'd rather use the rest of my treasure to pay off any debt or to invest in things i control.

i'm not advocating my approach to anyone else. i'm not saying my approach is the best way to earn money thru investments. i'm saying that this approach is the one that places me in a better mood, day to day.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You have to really examine what the possible sources of future inflation are and how one could hedge that with investments.

However, I think it's productive to take one very common hedge off the table: gold. If at some point during the future we had really severe inflation and the price of gold went parabolic and/or it became a preferred medium of exchange, the government would simply outlaw private ownership (it's not like it hasn't happened before): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_Reserve_Act

So that's a case of "if you're right you're wrong." One can speculate in gold now but just know that you are speculating that others believe there will be inflation and that will cause the price of gold to rise.

Inflation in oil and gas? Highly unlikely. There's a significant "frack log" in the U.S, most oil producers are going the Chapter 11 route (effectively lowering the cost of production), and the truth is it only takes 30-60 days to drill, frack, and tie in a well in the U.S. Coupled with likely energy efficiency incentives from future governments and you're likely to see oil and gas largely range-bound.

Food? The U.S. is and has been a significant food exporter for over a century. Short of a natural disaster, there's no reason to believe this will change. Shortages at supermarkets are not the result of not enough food being in the field but rather logjams in processing and distribution (which can and will be rectified).

Housing? There's some excess multifamily housing capacity out there but it's unevenly distributed. MF housing prices will certainly decline in major metros and rise elsewhere as people relocate. Sunbelt housing will continue to fare better than NE and upper midwest housing. By and large it will be a wash if not slightly deflationary.

Finished goods and merchandise? Possible/probable inflation as supply chains break and are reorganized. However, I don't see a good way to play that trend (disclaimer: personally I'm looking at ROK to play North American re-shoring). In truth, the finished price of a lot of goods will actually decrease as their production is shifted to Mexico from Asia.

Commodities? Truth be told, the industrialization and modernization of China created a commodity super-cycle. If anything, the long-term pressure on commodities like copper, iron ore, etc. is now downward.

This leaves labor. In the short run you there's a ton of slack in the labor market which will keep wages low. You could get regulatory pressure on wages on the lower-end of the scale (e.g. higher minimum wage) but that will likely be offset by declines in higher-end wages as slack appears in what were once considered "safe" white-collar jobs. Wage inflation tends to lead inflation for all goods but, again, I just don't see it and I don't see a good way to play it from an investment perspective.

One area you will likely see inflation is in electricity prices in many markets. This doesn't have anything to do with the price of fuel but rather the financial structure of utilities. This is *not* the sort of inflation you make money on by investing in utilities.

Truth be told, short term, I would say the best investment and inflation hedge one could make at the moment would be investments in one's own home (assuming you plan on living there long term and the house is suitable to said investments): things like solar pv, solar hot water, insulation, LED lighting, high efficiency heat pumps, smart thermostats, etc. I recently estimated the price of a solar PV system for my house and the payback would be about eight years if I went grid-tied and fifteen years if I went completely off-grid (assuming current utility prices). Those are pretty good returns! Unfortunately, my roof is not suitable for an installation :(

Going to 100% cash is not a move to hedge uncertainty, it's a straight up bet that prices will fall. Shorting is a just a more extreme version of that.

If you're uncertain about the future and have a feeling that equities will dip in the short term, sell 25% or 50% and give yourself the opportunity to buy low again just like you did in March when everyone else was saying we were entering a 2nd great depression that never materialized.

The problem with going to 100% cash is that you're now emotionally invested in waiting out on a dip that may never materialize. And the higher the market goes, you're more entrenched in that position and feel like it is more overvalued than it was when you sold. And then you will find yourself in this morally ambiguous position (like some people I know sold a few months ago) where on one hand, you hope the virus subsides because you don't want people to get sick and die, but on the other hand, you kinda hope it gets worse so you can rebuy at a lower price.

Best to set it and forget it. Put any new contributions into cash or a bond fund but stay invested.

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Strava

I am willing to back out of the market if I see the signs of a bear market approaching, but I completely missed seeing the last two bear markets. I had to just sit pat weathering the storm. Of course being able to predict the future is much more profitable, but I can't do that. So, I go with the next best thing: I'm in equities all the time.

The funny thing is I've seen people wait for the crash, get the crash, and then be too unnerved by the crash to get back in. Ouch. They don't want to catch that falling knife, and next thing they know the market spiked back up leaving them waiting again.

That's the whole rationale behind Bogleism. I'm just making these percentages up, but like ~50% of market gains come on just a few days. And you have to be in on those days to really come out ahead. Predicting those days is simply impossible. Even if you luck out and predict the really bad days.

So much this. i raised some cash on some of the big ups back in March and again last week when the Covid numbers really started looking bad. sitting on about 35% cash, 10% muni bonds, 10% international and the rest mostly in large cap active funds. Most of this is in my retirement accounts. Figure i can dollar cost avg back in when opportunities present. obviously there is that risk of trying to catch the falling knife. but that's why i still have a significant amount invested and still contributing. Mostly, it gives me a little peace of mind that my family is protected to a degree in case the worst happens. about 10 years or so from retirement at this point.

i felt the same way. i bought alaska and american. i still feel that way. the ONLY reason i chose to back out with my skin intact is the fear of reorganization. i went thru that with GM. now, i bought GM at a nickel a share i think, knowing this was a risk. but the point is, i know for certain american is going to keep flying. what i don't know is whether my shares will be wiped out in a reoganization. otherwise, i'm with you 100 percent. if i knew, for near certain, that an airline would not go bankrupt and reemeerge with wiped out shareholder debt, i'd be in, and in heavy.

over the last 3 months i had no problem whatsoever getting in and averaging down, knowing for sure that i'd lose money on the way down. never missed a wink of sleep.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I got out last week.
Was thinking about leaving 25% in but when you look at the numbers, It just didn't seem to matter.

I am not so much waiting for the dip to buy back in.

I am waiting on time, and possible dip. In 30 days, I will check the water, look around and decided if I want to move some back now or wait..

I see all the cost cutting my company is doing, and I have to believe others are doing. Delaying programs, cutting spend, that all rolls down hill, from the OEM, the suppliers wont be selling to us, the tool and die shops etc.. I don't think the fed can save it all.

I could be wrong. But I don't feel like there will be a 10- 20% rise in the next month either, so not to worried. Lets check back in a month or so and see what we are looking at.

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

I'm 80% out. Started cutting about 10 days ago. Still have 401k/IRA in there, but rebalanced both this past week so that I'm comfortably hedged against a downturn.

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____________
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers

My thinking as well with Air Canada. National airline, currently sitting around $17, down from around $50 pre-covid. It went as low as about 14 I think in mid-late March when everything really crashed. Given time I think it will recover nicely......people will travel again, even if it takes a couple years.

Just my opinion: I agree that people will travel again but I strongly question that current equity owners will be equity owners two or three years hence.

Didn’t see a post on the unemployment data - thought this was as good a place as any...

Can someone explain the dissonance between the BLS unemployment number (14.5m) and the total number Of people claiming unemployment insurance (state and federal, 30m+)

Is it because the BLS data doesn’t account for gig workers - and the relief package offered federal insurance benefits for this cohort? Given the number of households that are supported by gig work - this seems like an important distinction.

Regardless - that’s 30m people who are set to lose $600/wk - it’s hard to imagine how economically things don’t continue to deteriorate even if we have employment gains in the months ahead.

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"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof." - John Kenneth Galbraith

Ya I don't get how over 30 million are on the rolls(and countless more than cannot collect), yet we are at 11+% or something like that? At any rate, anyone that went back to work last week will most likely be laid off pretty soon again. 57k new cases today with no end in sight for the curve going straight up, has gotta have all those restaurants, travel related, and service industry folks on the ropes again.. It is really gonna suck big this time around too, as there will probably not be as much in the way of govt help. How many trillions can this govt get away with? I suppose it doesnt matter anymore that the republicans are in charge, they will cave in the face of what is certainly going to be a big 2nd wave.

And that is the conundrum, the market actually likes this bad news, as it makes more trillions of stimulus more probable. I put a big short on the market today and left it on for the holiday weekend. It may backfire, but I just wanted some protection for what I have left in the market, and hoping that most of those will be defensive and do well in the hard times to come. My guess is that printing trillions more dollars is going to raise the precious metals, which have been on a tear already. Other than that, just some technology that maybe will do less bad than the general market..

Month and a half later market at a new high and about 7% higher than your post. It doesn’t care about bad C-19 news. It doesn’t care about the stimulus being stuck. It just keeps on roaring.

I was thinking of going more into cash, but I know the administration is going to do everything in its power (and possibly things outside its power) to keep the fires going. The risk is either that isn’t enough or they finally admit they can’t win and cash in.

It doesn’t care about bad C-19 news. It doesn’t care about the stimulus being stuck. It just keeps on roaring. //

Well then you are not reading the same news as they are. Cases seemed to have peaked and are going down at the moment, vaccines are around the corner, and there is a new spit test that only takes hours for a determination, and it seems to be pretty accurate. That is the news the market is digesting.


As for the stimulus, they know it is coming one way or the other(matter of a few weeks?), only question is it a trillion and a half, or two. So it does care about news, they just dont ascribe to the news you propose they should be looking at. That news is already in the rear view mirror, market looks ahead..


But as a thought experimen,t if there was no 2nd round of stimulus, it would crash like a flaming meteor..If you are saying you think the market is being irrational, not sure I would disagree with you on that point, I just understand why it is where it is at the moment..It's crazy what is going on, so crazy that Warren Buffett is buying gold now, something he loathed his entire investing career. I believe he thinks the normal time frame for fearful thinking(when gold goes up) is going to last a lot longer than the usual cycle. He is investing in gold now for the next couple decades I would presume, and he sold US banks and airlines at the same time..Actually looks like he is finally betting against America, as the company he bought is Canadian I believe.

Sept will see me move out of it. I think the tsunami is still coming.

Monty: NAK ROD shortly!!! Next play (Graphite One!), going in DEEP.

I’m thinking the market has now taken a shift away from glorifying quarterly earnings.

No way even places still operational can be pumping revenues like they did pre-China virus.

If you were even, good move. You could always sell puts at the strike you sold at. Walk with the premium and if you get put back in, your no worse than if you didn’t sell.

Speculating where the market is going is always tough. Good luck.

I’m the same age as you and I went all in on XOM. High dividend and while oil/gas has some issues, I think when greaves picks up again the stock should bounce. I’m going to hang tight and collect dividends. Funny thing is, bank would rather see dividends than “growth stocks” anyway. They just want to see income to prove your viability as a borrower. So, in that sense, holding a loss doesn’t matter to me.

I am only a small amount of Southwest airlines stock and it’s almost back to where I bought it at. Luckily my Apple stock is up 3,570%.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Jharris, did you keep your XOM investment? Hope so. I did, as well as SU and CNQ. It has been a great month for these with the vaccine news. Hopefully others here also bought these and other energy/bank stocks at the sale prices.

I bought back into WMB, KMI, and EPD two weeks ago. Also bought NCR because of the Square buyout rumors (very sensible acquisition IMO).