I hope this helps her in long run. Not trying to be a critic here, but she doesn’t look healthy since she’s starting training again.

I predicted long ago in some ST thread that she wouldn't even make the US team let alone medal. I had already forgotten about her until I saw your post, and this pretty much puts the nail in the coffin except for perhaps die hard Gwen fans. She simply transitioned from world class (indeed, world best) triathlete to a national class runner; and proved that triathlon and marathon are two completely different sports. I do wish her a speedy recovery.

+1 not that anyone wished her ill, it just looked like waayyy too much of a stretch to be the best in one sport and then the best in another sport.

PS edit I'd like to see her return to ITU as I'm more interested in seeing if she could make a complete comeback there vs being a national class runner.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

What is the injury? She is just too malnourished to handle the marathon

Pretty wild statement considering all marathoners are rail thin.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Haglund's deformity.

Why the malnourished comment? I don't see many other elite marathoners looking like triathletes.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

getting my popcorn for this one....

Agreed. Unless one is Bo Jackson, tough to double up and be a world beater or even competitive on a big scale. She also should have done a 3 year plan instead of the rapid ramp up. Best to her, but I never understood the run obsession after such a stellar ITU career.

In her own words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua1tXsHsqEk

Letsrun has to be heartbroken.

Another notch on Jerry’s belt!

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Or Primoz Roglic, apparently

I understood, she wanted to be happy. She wasn't happy cycling (or swimming?) so stick with the part she loves, plenty of us AGers do it (and not after winning our AGs in Kona or ITU worlds...), she just needs to realize that she can't make the same living nor enjoy the same sponsorship much longer. I never had much hope for her winning any marathons but I sure was supportive of her move.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

this just makes me sad.

I think one of the things that earned her so many fans is the fact she wanted to try to be the best in two different sports.

Oh, I get the being happy part completely. The timeline was my issue. Too short of a build up.

At least go to 6:40 to see the post op drugged up Gwen. It's worth it.



https://www.youtube.com/...P5XeQnPAEJAasUKuhL00

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Her run obsession gave her one more “sponsored” Olympic cycle but on her terms. Itu Gypsy lifestyle is hard af and she already attempted the non “all in” itu early in her career to moderate success. It wasn’t til she quit everything and moved out of US that she became the stellar GJ. She knew more than anything what it took to win gold. It wasn’t a sacrifics it was an “investment”.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

They all look Whippet-thin; but I have to agree that Gwen often looks very malnourished in comparison. I think this is because she is much taller than the typical women world class marathoner. She is also taller than the typical MALE world class marathoner. That doesn't mean that tall runners cannot be world class, but there is no doubt that it is not the optimal body type. 126-130 lbs is exceptionally thin at her height of 5' 10". From T&F News in 2005: the top 10 women marathoners average just under 5' 4" and 104.2 lbs.

As others have said and she said, her injury is Haglunds Deformity. Which really has nothing to do with how much one weighs.

Now if an STer posted that they had Haglunds Deformity and needed surgery the overwhelming response would be support.

So she can't run for awhile. Which means she could probably swim and bike sooner than run. Can we hope that this will be a reason to return to ITU?

She seems as coherent and nice as ever on the video. Hopefully we will see her back to triathlons by next year. If she could make the Olympics again (just qualifying not winning) as a triathlete, that would be a great human interest story for her/sponsors/fans.

My marathon weight was 130-135lbs at 6'. Lydiard was coaching me at camps and through mail and said that one needs to look like they've just come out of a concentration camp with bulging eyes. Africans look that thin and no one frets about them.

Good luck Gwen. Would like to see you back at ITU.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

This

i like the comment on YT that drugged up Gwen should have her own channel. She's so nice. No potty mouth......but does confess to stealing Netflix

She’s not coming back to triathlon ever.

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blog

This. She'll go back to being a tax accountant before she races ITU again.

It's an interesting question to ask yourself: If you have accomplished the highest step in the sport, what is the draw in continuing? Clearly most athletes do want to continue and want more, as in multiple medals/rings/championships over years, but what does that really prove? What's wrong with saying "okay, proved that, now let's do something different."

In a way I think it says some really good things about the athlete; that they have a diverse enough life that they also want things outside the sport. I always felt that way about Chrissie. And they're probably more interesting people as well. Not saying that this wasn't a pipe dream for Gwen (I think it is), but good on her for doing what she wants and not feeling like she "owes" anybody anything.

I completely agree, she had nothing left to prove. We're just selfish in that we weren't ready to see her quit triathlon, given how dominant she was. But hey, I'm still liking a US female's chances in Tokyo. ;-)

Rupp had similar surgery so let's watch him. Perhaps she rushed to fast into this. Why the Olympics? Why not shoot for world majors in 2 years or women's WR? Would be nice if Nike did a breaking 2:15 for women

Yes to your answer. This probably captures my selfishness.

Yet, she says she is still going to try to attain a goal and then doesn't state or restate that goal.

Proving that she is capable of a complete comeback would be huge. Not Tiger Woods HUGE but huge.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

So she needs to cross train? If only she had a pedigree to do that...

Funny, don't remember being that messed up coming out of my knee surgeries or colonoscopies. Also odd I have haglunds in one foot but podiatrist I used was former Canadian figure skater who has it too, but a simple pad in the exact position was all I needed to calm it down for past several years. But I don't run 120 mile weeks either.

What does this mean???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Paula Radcliffe at 5' 8" tall still owns the women's marathon world record (2:15).

I predict being an ambassador for triathlon and/or running.

Look for her to start her coaching platform ala Macca and Crowie.

Run some camps, speaking engagements, etc.

Don't see her wanting to go back to the office after the past better part of a decade away doing what she has done.

It means that pretty much all of Jerry Schumacher's athletes get injured. His training is extremely tough, and while it works for the select few who don't get injured, most aren't so lucky. It's kind of like throwing stuff at a wall to see what sticks.
Just a few from the group that are or have recently come back from injury: Flanagan, Infeld, Houlihan, Quigly, Fraser, Jager, Hill.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

So Bret Sutton of running?

And yet her olympic marathons, run in much warmer conditions, were DNF and 23rd. Four Olympics total and no medals. Might I suggest she was too big for warm weather races? Still. Paula was an outlier that does not disprove my point.

Yeah you could say that

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

So what you means is the best marathoners IN HOT CONDITIONS are small.
Which isn't the same as best marathoner full stop.

It's a shame to see her injured. I have to agree her chance of making the Olympics for the marathon was never good. I guessing that she didn't really like racing triathlon. Mostly because the need to travel to race/train. Fair enough it's her life. Once the sponsorship money dries up she has the back up of doing some 70.3 races which she could still do pretty well at and make some money? Did she really believe that she had a chance at the marathon or knew that she could be sponsored through the next olympic cycle?

I've got these - both feet.

I am astonished that she has been able to run as much as she has, I'd love to know how she managed it.

I could only average abut 30k per week when training for Ironman, and boy was it painful to walk some mornings.

You're tough. She's tough. That usually doesn't make this problem any easier to bear.

Hope you both have a successful return to better results.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Yeah but Paula was doped up.

Smaller runners have a physiological edge in hot or cool conditions but the edge is magnified in hot conditions. Look up the term outlier if you are having trouble squaring Paula Radcliffe with the concept. Further, Gwen's stated goal is to win the gold medal at the summer Olympics, not set a WR in a fall marathon. The latter would be spectacular but neither is likely for a national class runner.

In case you didn't realise Gwen is a mother now.

Overseas training camps and flying off to faraway climes are not really conducive to bringing up a young child

She has Olympic gold and ITU championship.

Dont believe she has any motivation to return to ITU.

She always loved running

there's no way she does any of this...

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Franziska Rochat-Moser, Franca Fiacconi and Greta Waitz all had similar bodies (height and weight) and hardly struggled in the marathon. when the world record holders also has a similar body, it's time to come up with a new crack pot idea.

So to put this back on track, you are telling me that Gwen's height is an advantage and you think she'll medal at the Olympics? And you don't agree that she looks malnourished? OK, then.

Paula was NOT not doped up.

Radcliffe’s supporters are aware that her exceptional marathon world record of 2hr 15min 25sec – more than three minutes faster than the next best on the all-time list – has led some to be suspicious. But when the Guardian spoke to Andrew Jones, the sports scientist who found that Radcliffe’s VO2max (the maximum volume of oxygen an athlete can use) was staggering as a 17-year-old, a number that climbed further in her career , he was not surprised at her times. “It was absolutely clear she was going to be breaking world records,” he said. “No other female to my knowledge has ever had that kind of physiology.”
As Cram pointed out, in 2002 – seven years before the biological passport was introduced – Radcliffe asked the IAAF to randomly test her more frequently and for her samples to be frozen so they could be tested when technology improved. “People who break world records are exceptional,” he said. “Yet if you go on most forums, whenever my name gets mentioned, they claim I was taking drugs. That is the world we live in. But Paula was an anti-doping pioneer, who demanded her blood was frozen years before anyone else. If she was in any way guilty, and she is not, how stupid would that be?”
link: https://www.theguardian.com/...g-doping-allegations

I actually think all of her half and full marathoning sets her up well for Ironman if she wants to do it.

She may be the only person who can really challenge Daniela Ryf in the next two years.

Ah I see now, thanks!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Gwen will never race Ironman. She isn't interested in that. And Daniela better watch for a young lady named Lucy this year!

I've never heard GJ ever mentioning that she liked riding biles. I don't think her doing long course is happening.

I never said her height was an advantage. I was addressing your incorrect conclusion that it is a DISadvantage. When the world record holder had a similar body type and countless other women with similar bodies have excelled at the marathon, it's clear that being tall and thin is not the limiter you appear to think it is based on this:

"She is also taller than the typical MALE world class marathoner. That doesn't mean that tall runners cannot be world class, but there is no doubt that it is not the optimal body type. 126-130 lbs is exceptionally thin at her height of 5' 10". From T&F News in 2005: the top 10 women marathoners average just under 5' 4" and 104.2 lbs."

I never said she doesn't look malnourished. I also never said that I think she will medal. Do you normally ask randomly irrelevant questions when trying to defend your ridiculous statements?

What about Laura Philip? I'm really looking forward to the battle between Lucy, Laura and Daniella this year. I think Lucy took too long of a break but I guess a marriage is a once in a lifetime kinda thing

You are either being purposefully obtuse or simply haven't read this thread to see that my comment on body type all started from another poster talking about her looking malnourished. Note also, that Gwen at 126 is 22 pounds heavier than the average of the top 10 women marathoners. They are all thin, but she looks even more emaciated at that height. And the crux of the thread is the impact of the surgery on her olympic dreams. So I was trying to lead the blind back to the original discussion.

As to optimal body types, I clearly stated in my first post that it doesn't mean you can't succeed if you are not in the ideal range; but there are most definitely optimal bodies for many sports, including distance running, and these body types are optimal for a reason. And it very much does imply that not being in the optimal range is a disadvantage - like a sub 6 ft pro basketball player. If you have time and are willing to learn, this 15 minute TED talk on athletic improvement has a very good section on body types (starting around 7 mins in). Or perhaps it's all just a crackpot conspiracy. If you want to argue with the obvious, go ahead without me.

https://www.ted.com/...language=en#t-398404

You write in a condescending way. That she is a mother is common knowledge, that's why she went back to running.

Once the grass no longer looks greener on the other side of the fence... She might rethink and do differently what she was doing. Could probably race in a block of races to compartmentalize the impact to her.

For the US marketplace and sponsors she doesn't need to be the ITU WC. It's the Olympics that are the pay off. If she could be competitive in the Olympics every four years, she could have a longer career if she went back to triathlon. IMO

You're lucky that the women aren't on you for presuming a mother can't train and be competitive. They do.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

It's too bad I can't believe in miracles...

Do you know her background and triathlon pathway?

If you knew and understood it, I think you would realize she likely realizes what she needs in order to be competitive and win at a world class level.

Her journey she realized it wasn’t good enough to just swim-bike-run train she needed to go “all in” to take that next step. So I think your theory just wouldn’t work for her because she had real world experience of your suggestion not working for her. It wasn’t until she went into the squad environment that she became unstoppable. Before that it was good results but not consistent world class front of group results.

Would she love to live in Portland (or wherever it is she lives) and tri train. I’d almost guarantee she would, but she knows that would likely limit her ability to get the most out of herself. Eta: I have have a theory that she actually likely didn’t really enjoy triathlon she was just stupid good at it and was still fresh enough that the squad based approach would help her take her over the top. But I just never thought she “loved” this more she just dealt with it cus this is what you had to do in order to win. It’s why she has zero interest in the non-draft stuff, etc. it was kinda crazy that before the gold medal tours it was as if she had left tri.

She’s not really a Nicola spirig type that can to train off on her own w a coach and do beast mode.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

While I hope she heals well and does whatever makes her happy, I hope she doesn't return to tri in any capacity. I'll totally get flamed for saying this, and I deserve it, but I think she's so boring. She's a tremendous triathlete, but I just find her to be the least interesting and have flattest personality of any of the athletes ever interviewed. I was so relieved when she left ITU. I know, I'm a dick. I can't help it.

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

It is interesting to consider the (im)possibility that the best triathletes would ever make it as world class runners.

However a number of them have come from Olympic level swimming backgrounds, and may be able to return if they tried.
And LA has shown that elite triathletes can become (or revert back to being) world class cyclists.

But no triathlete has been able (or likely would ever be able) to become a world class runner.
Tell me if I am wrong?

I that realm the only interesting athletes are Starky and Wurfy...

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

But no triathlete has been able (or likely would ever be able) to become a world class runner.
Tell me if I am wrong? //

You would have to define more what you are asking, but yes, Gwen is world class as a runner. Go look up how many women have run 15;15 5k on the track, it is world class. But to your question, wasn't Gwen a runner before, so isn't she just coming back to her roots? OF course no one has come to triathlon from running or cycling and become a world class swimmer, so we can rule that one out. Many have come from swimming or running backgrounds and become world class cyclists. But to your original question, has a swimmer or cyclist become a world class runner, not having been one originally?


SO there is the rub, what is world class to you. To me, it would being able to run a 28 something 10k, or sub 14 5k. That is my definition or world class for runners, others might have a different view, that's fine, it is a moving number. For women I would say 31+ for 10k and sub 15;30 for 5k. Any of those times would keep you out of the last few places of most big non championship races. And in Gwen's case, it actually won some pretty good races..


So several of the ITU guys would have achieved world class running status, ones that were not primarily runners before doing tris. There are of course many others in the 28's, but those are guys that came from running backgrounds, so they dont count. But it has gotten fuzzy on where you are really from, when kids start doing triathlons at 5 years old, and triple train for all the sports their entire lives. I guess we just call them triathletes..

Anyone else had issues with Haglund's?

I was battling flare-ups with this for several years. Possibly heading for an operation.

Then I took up cycling 5-6k miles/yr and the problem vanished completely. I pedal heel flat and I guess that helps as well. I presume it helps stretch the tendon.

Totally agree. I was a big fan for a long time, but after her YouTube Channel came out I realized how boring and uninteresting I found her.

Yes, after battling this for several years, I had surgery in January. I did everything I could to avoid the surgery (ESWT, laser, long layoff from running) but ultimately my heel bone was shaped in such a way that it kept rubbing on my tendon and causing inflammation. Surgery went really well. Recovery is long but on track and going really well. I wish I had done it sooner as I now know that in my case it was not going to resolve unless I gave up running forever.

Totally agree. Would add Anne Haug to that list as well. Unfortunately Laura Phillip got injured last week, hopefully she has a full and speedy recovery to be at her best for Kona.

Google Paula and bio passport OFF score. Keep dreaming!

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Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Thats the same thing someone told me when I said she would go after the marathon after Rio.

Good thing I didn't say she would be racing in Tokyo for the marathon....

The main reason being incentive, why would you? the only triathletes that would be capable of this are actually world class triathletes and have a much more exciting lifestyle than the boring, run only, world class athletes. There is no reason for them to change over sport while they are achieving great things in triathlon and once they are no longer achieving they would be too old to transfer over.

You people are delusional... she’s not doing IRONMAN, she’s not going back to ITU, she’s not going to start a lifestyle brand and coach age groupers. She said she’s going to run, and she did, injury notwithstanding

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

i think i call nonsense on this - the number of triathletes running bonafide 28-minute 10000s must be vanishingly small.

i think reasonable people agree that ali b is about the best men's 10k runner in the modern era. he ran a 28:32 tapered, shaved, paced, in perfect conditions, on a mondo track, with excellent competition. afterwards he said he thought he might be able to go 20 seconds faster.

if that's where ali is under absolutely best-case conditions, he doesn't have much company in the remaining 28 seconds. . .

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Didn't Alex Yee run a 27:XX high?

What kind of serious professional triathlete is "tapered" for a late April track race? None. He had just won the WTS race in San Diego and flew up to Stanford to give the 10K a shot. I can assure you that the reigning Olympic gold medalist was NOT tapered in April 2013 for either SD or the 10K.

Regarding the other poster's question, Carol Montgomery was a world class runner and triathlete AT THE SAME TIME.

Yeah, as much as we'd all like to see it, I doubt she would come back to Triathlon. Both ITU and Ironman are tough gigs, esp if you're married with a kid. Most couples want at least two kids that are close in age too! I expect she'll settle down and get a "real" job like the rest of us, as well as establish some kind of income from her past triathlon career through appearances, etc. She was such a joy to watch racing ITU and of course in Rio. You knew at the start of the run leg everyone else in the field was doomed. Nobody could touch her!

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"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte

I googled: Paula Radcliffe bio passport OFF Score and got this - https://sportsscientists.com/...es-and-transparency/

Read it top-to-bottom very carefully, and it basically concludes that YES the minor discrepancies in the off-scores in question could absolutely be due to dehydration, altitude training and/or sickness. Or in the words of the author: So, to wrap up – is Radcliffe lying? I don’t know. Her explanations are all plausible, but she hasn’t helped the situation or the credibility of her own explanations by playing this the way she has.


The fact that she's not turning over additional test data the has proves nothing. It might raise raise suspicion, but there is definitely not even close to a smoking gun here. I worked for a DNA analysis firm and saw raw data on a weekly basis and it's amazing how the same tests conducted on the same sample would yield different results dependent on a different operator, different day, etc. These minor discrepancies in Hemoglobin blood counts, and they are truly minor, prove absolutely nothing.

i think i call nonsense on this - the number of triathletes running bonafide 28-minute 10000s must be vanishingly small. //


I never said it was a big number, probably a dozen or so at best, so a small # as you say.

Alistair Brownlee's 28:32 track time for 10,000m was 22 seconds shy of England's "B" standard for the 10K. Their "A" standard is 27:50, and today you aren't even a medal contender without sub 27 speed (the WR is currently 26:17).

The reality today is that 28 mins 10K is no longer world class; it is only national class. More than two dozen different men have run under 26:50.

Agree that her doing an Ironman is delusional.

What were your odds for her when she switched from ITU to running?
Now what are your odds for her after this setback and staying with running?
What would her odds be to re-established herself as a top 10 ITU talent again?

What would you do if your were in her position?

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

What would you do if your were in her position? //

I would take this time to reevaluate my goals. Not going back to triathlon, unless some burning desire to race there again bubbles up. I would have her keep running, but take a very hard look at the distance she has chosen, the marathon. She has shown great promise in the 5k to about 1/2 marathon distance, way more than her marathons thus far. But I'm of the mind that she has not even come close to a good race as of yet at that distance, probably grinding hard on her psyche too. I would take a hard look at what the coaches have been dealing up to me, 120 mile a week is just too much for this lady in my opinion. She has the unique ability to cross train, why give that up?


Anyway if she were to run a sub 15 5k, or sub 31 10k, she could keep making a good living at running. They are not the sexy distances, and there is not much glory there. Have to get the ego in check, and maybe just say the marathon is not for you, but running is. I still think she "should" have run a sub 2;30 marathon, but she keeps getting sabotaged for some reason. At some point you have to throw in the towel, because you dont get to run one of these every few weeks, like you can the other races. Something has to change, I just hope she doesnt think it is running more...

Of course there isn't a smoking gun or she would have served a ban, though it is closer than you give it credit for. Look at those figures though (especially the graph comparing PR to her fellow GB competitors), look at the performances, look at the women she has absolutely pasted in the record books by minutes and how many of them have tested positive recently as WADA has finally gotten around to testing properly in Africa. I can't be 100% certain she did but you can't be even close to sure she didn't, like the first guy said I don't believe in miracles. Anyways we are way off topic so Ill put a cork in this one.

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I said this some time ago. Its like being 5'10 130 lbs woman and hoping to compete in gymnastics. its just the wrong body type to be competitive in women's elite marathoning. There is a reason why Joan Benoit could run 2:25 at the LA Olympics 6 weeks after having her knee scoped. Most has to do with the engine on top of that tiny body. Gwen's engine is not large enough to withstand running as fast as Joan could run for as long as Joan could keep up the pace, given Gwen's "massive" size (and one uses the world loosely....its just massive compared to pro women marathoners)

I'll agree with your assessment that she is a good middle distance runner. Given that the IAAF is phasing out the middle distances that's going to hurt her ability to shine and make money. Her income is probably going to be dropping off and less than it was with triathlon.

There are good male/female middle distance runners that just don't make the money that milers or marathoners do. I agree with your assessment that she seems to break down when it comes to the marathon.

To answer the questions that I put out there.

IMO

Her odds of success at running about 50% when she started.
Her odds of success at running post injury about 25% now.
Her odds of success at returning to ITU about 50%.

And by success, I mean commercial success and not necessarily top of the world success. I think she has been the primary earner in their family. If she doesn't produce results, then they might have 3-5 years or one Olympic cycle of sponsorship money before they need to find income elsewhere.

I'm a fan and wish her the best. I miss her being in the news and less on line since she has run into a bad patch.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

I’m with you Monty - race your best distances and take advantage of the ability to cross train well.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

One of the other runners I follow a little bit is Steph Bruce. She races a heckuva lot more than the Bowerman Marathon runners. Different coach and training styles, but it makes you wonder. She's a marathoner but has raced Cross Country throughout the year, Half-Marathon, and Marathon. I've read on here is that marathoners don't peak that often. Well maybe Gwen just isn't racing enough to get to her potential.

What does this have to do with her injury? Nada. But it's kind of in the Wurf mode of thinking, the only way to get better at racing is by racing.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

How long has that athlete been in the marathon game? That's probaly your answer. What GJ was trying to do with her supposed timeline really made no sense, and it creates an scenario where EVERYTHING had to go right. No niggles, no set backs, nothing. And then of course you still have to perform on the day of trials and actually make the team. But I'm guessing her transition time to marathon running had more to do with lack of "adaption" period and thus the lack of racing.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

But look at Shalane and how many marathons she peaks for. I'm saying that Gwen probably should have had a different strategy, and that strategy should have been more racing.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

But my point is that I'm guessing the reason why they did a lack of racing is specifically due to the time line of when she made the move. Hell, this was all inside of a 3 year window from when she decided to make the move to Tokyo. That's unheard of to just "change" olympic sports and expect to do well. So my guess is with the transition to marathon running, the demands of training more than likely led to her not being able to race more.

So again your comparing her racing/training schedule to seasoned veteran runners?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I'm not going to say she should have done this or that. I don't have her training knowledge of what she actually is doing and what it's doing to her. So I dont think you can say she should have done X instead of Y, and most certainly if your comparing them to schedules of veteran runners. That doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

To start, I'd have scrapped the whole timeline if this truly was what she wanted to do. Now again read my comments from the start in that I thought this was more of a process to stay at home, see her hubby and kid every single day and "milk" one last olympic cycle of sponsorships. So that's why I thought her whole "winning gold" was simply PR fluff. No way in hell was she going to come into marathon running and win. Her run volume in ITU was very manageable, and I just dont think you can do that with marathon training. I think at some point you just have to put on the miles. It can be lower than the biggest volume of some runners, but at the end of the day you need to run, and you need to run a lot to be successful. So I think for an athlete like her you have to be very careful and build that up carefully. Which means you don't actually have a lot of time to race in that scenario. Every "race" week is pretty much a lost opportunity to train more. So if you race too often, you actually aren't necessarily getting better, your racing on whatever fitness you are. You don't necessarily "race" your way into fitness from the position she's in. You can certainly do that if your a more seasoned athlete, but I wouldn't call her that, even though running was her strong point. I think running well on low volume and cross training was her strong point- not running as her main sport.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

she races a heckuva lot more than the BTC women because she's a B level runner who has to race to make money while the BTC women are training for olympic and WC medals. she's been racing as a pro for over a decade and has a 2:29 marathon and a 1:10 HM to show for it. those are good times but hardly times that are going to make an olympic team or medal at worlds.

You are wrong.

https://www.triathlon.org/...s/carol_montgomery_c

I actually thought the opposite- it always sounded to me like this was a 2020 timeline or bust project. ETA: Which meant there was never going to be any reconsideration going on. This was the path she chose for better or worse.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I dont disagree with you at all. But she did have some minor success at the 5 and 10k in season while training, but has had a couple clunker marathons thus far. Like I said, you probably have 2 marathons a year in her position, so at what point do you throw in the towel if you dont do what you think you should be??

I think she has been unlucky in her long race attempts, and maybe she gives it one more go. But the nice thing with 5./10k's, you can run a couple/few a month, and you get to throw out all your clunkers, as long as you have a few gems in there too. I would think other than her stated goals, one would be to keep making a good living at running as long as possible. I doubt they have enough money to retire on, so to have 4 or 5+ years of high income still to come, that would be nice for their family. And as long as it stays fun for her, ride this baby out as long as you can. You get to work a regular job the rest of your life, this is a rare instance in our world where you get to make good money for playing something you really love..

I actually appreciate Gwen’s decisiveness. Always seems to be moving relentlessly in a direction of her own choosing, and without looking back.

I would think other than her stated goals, one would be to keep making a good living at running as long as possible.

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I'm not as familiar with running salaries etc or race bonuses/appearance fees. But just from a money making endevour to me that's lost when she left triathlon. Again, maybe I'm misjudging her and her ability against other run competition, but to me the money maker was ITU. The "love" move was running as that afforded her a likely better quality of life. So maybe I'm just ignorant of all things run salaries and race results etc., but I just thought the move to running was more out of "If I'm going out, I'm going out my way".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It's a cool goal and all. She did run fast enough for a spot at trials. However, with this injury it probably punts that idea and she'll have to run again just so she's confident.

I have no idea why people keep saying she should come back to ITU. She's 33. So she can probably run competitively for a few more years before moving on.

Overall I'm just spitballing on what she could have done. Part of racing is execution, not racing enough may have been a part of that, idk.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Part of racing is execution, not racing enough may have been a part of that, idk.

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Part of marathon racing is being able to properly marathon train. She's gotta figure out that first before she dials in race strategies. I guess the marathon is the "sexy" running event (IE- $$$) for endurance athletes, so that's why she chose marathon. But she pretty much left herself no room for error with how this all went down. From the weird timeline of changing sports, to the distance chosen, she pretty much picked the hardest pathway for success for herself. And no I am not saying she should have picked shorter distances, cus I doubt she'd have been any better, but with her run training the prior 6 years, she imo wasn't "ready" for that type of move. But again I get why she did it. She wanted zero parts of ITU, she wanted to see her hubs and kid every day and not live out of a suitcase 10 months out of the year. So it's working out pretty well for her well except.....the actual racing part.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

AB ran 28:32. BYU has 4 guys faster than that on their track team right now. I'm not surprised there are several triathletes running 28s, but it's not a world class time when there are probably 30 NCAA guys in the 28s each year.

What am I missing here, last years NCAA D1 final, looks like Ali would have won it, and only 7 guys in the 28's?

https://www.ncaa.com/...s/008-1_compiled.htm

Like I said before, everyone can draw their line in the sand on what is world class. I think if you are near the top 200 in the world on a given year in just about any sport, you are world class. If you play baseball, football, soccer, golf, and a hoard of other sports, you are probably competing at the highest level, in the largest forum for that sport. To me, that is world class, but feel free to choose your own line..

I'd say you are missing by comparing a championship race time to a PR time in an event....33 different guys in D1 have run in the 28s this year. It's pretty common in many big stage races for the final to be slow and tactical. A lot of those 28 min NCAA guys won't even be all americans this year. I agree it is very fast...but if 30 guys ran that fast in college this year it seems a stretch to call 28s world class in my mind...but I get where you are coming from as it is very fast at the national level for the guys who keep grinding after college...

and you are missing comparing what a professional triathlete, who had won the olympic gold the prior august who hops in a 10k for kicks one time with no speed work at the beginning of his tri season, with a bunch of collegiate guys who have taken multiple cracks at time trialing the distance. do you seriously think he would not have broken 28 had he focused on the 10k in 2013?

Are you talking to me? I never talked about about AB "might" run or whether he can beat a bunch of college kids. I was talking about the reference to a 28 min 10k being world class and using college kids for a frame of reference. Regarding guessing what someone may run, who knows....a 30 second improvement at that level is significant and impossible to guess for anyone until it actually happens. A lot of people had bold predictions what the women's triathlon gold medal winner would do in the marathon with 100% run focused training...

Yeah and almost none of those predictions were that she would be a winner. Most predicted very little success or injury. So, I guess the latter groups are still on track to be correct.