No - because I would have found another club already.
If that club was the same drama sh*t - I would have found a 3rd club.
If that club was the same - I would take a look in the mirror and evaluated myself.


simple.

Why show up to a group ride and ride off the front? Seems like you could save yourself a lot of effort and just start the ride solo? If you're the guy who accelerates when they get to the front of the paceline you should look at yourself in the mirror

Local club here had to add an A Minus ride that started 5 mins after the ride because most of them did not train over the winter and were getting P/O about getting dropped.

If the ride is advertised as a non "no drop" ride, I'm all for natural selection. Form a groupetto and ride.

But I also don't understand why a 3hr group ride needs a 30 minute store stop(or a store stop at all). So.......

So it's a drop ride and people are bitching about getting dropped?? Get faster or go out with a slower group, pretty simple.

Only valid complaint would be if it were a no-drop ride with a predetermined pace and people were turning it into an ego contest.

I’m located in a rural area that is about an hour from a larger city. That’s a lot of time that could be spent on the road riding, so the options are far and few between unfortunately.

Last night the ride ended with beer and pizza. Since one of the officers that is such a jerk went with his pals, I just went home after the ride. I thought there’s no way I’m going to be the good guy and then hang out with this douche after dealing with his crap.

Not that kind of drama around here. I'm in a club that has a race membership and a club membership. We often have group rides where all are invited but pace/distance is made clear. We also use group chat so people can get a feel for if the ride will be no drop or regroup etc. We often have rides with both men and women and what happens most of the time is if someone gets dropped, one or more faster folks will drop back and pull the person back to the group or they will just ride with that person. I can't think of a time when a person was left along after being dropped. It's all about good communication.

There will be cases where the racers will sprint ahead etc. and the rest of the group just stay put, sometimes finishing in two groups. It's no big deal. When bringing on new members we actually make it clear we don't like drama.

One of the other riders that generally rides very hard and rides a TT bike got out front early and hammered. I grabbed a wheel and we proceeded to slipstream leading the group. The group was gone almost instantly. Again, this is not a no drop ride.

This it pretty accurate.

When I first rode with a group I had no idea how to ride in a paceline. Every time I got to the front I would drop the hammer (as much as my puny legs can.....) and break the group up. I thought I was doing what I was supposed to, but no one seemed very happy with me.

A gentle conversation from a more experienced rider had me behaving much more civilly on the next ride. Until the last fourth or so where someone else, way more experienced, started putting out some watts and a group of us went with him. I got schooled that day on what it means to barely hang on while at your redline.

To the OP: it sounds like you aren't well-suited to ride with this group.

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----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.

The guy that was lecturing me posted in caps 18mph for the race group. Two other riders said bump that. I rode with one of them and the other couldn’t make it. The guy I rode with had a mechanical and turned back 10 miles into it. I stopped and waited and then dropped the group again. I rode alone.

So I'll ask again...why are you even there? If your only goal is to show you're superior to others, pin on a number so everyone's on the same page at least.

You said there are 4 groups and the ride you picked was supposed to be 18mph. Sounds like you should move up a group. You'll be with faster riders and away from the guy who annoys you.

18 mph CAP? For the "race group?"

I think you're riding with the wrong group.

I’m beginning to wonder why I’m there. There are a couple of guys that keep up when they show up (when work isn’t an issue), but I suppose most don’t. I’m not trying to go out and crush souls, but at the same time, a drop ride race group doesn’t go at a social ride pace. I want to get something out of every ride and
I question what I’m getting out of race night anymore.

As well, I’m aware of pacelining and not gunning it when you take the front
end. It’s not that I’m tone deaf or a total a hole.

Why are you destroying your GAINZ? I never go for post practice beers with my rugby club, post match social all about...but during the week just seems to gain all the bad weight!

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

It was race group and granted a new route, but still...

I averaged 21.5mph over 33miles with 1,500 feet elevation in 15-20mph wind. Only 213 watts. It could have been ridden much harder.

WILL BE RIDDEN 18mph!!!

Exact context.

Hmm. "Drop ride" doesn't necessarily mean "hammer fest". Especially early in the season. That's a good time for everyone to get back into group riding. No one gets back into form in April if the group gets shattered every opportunity for a pace line. Our club's rides are "droptional" ? .. if you really just can't keep up that day you're expected to just wheel it back to the shop solo. But there is no concerted effort to drop people off the ride, that's just not group riding. If we have a long stretch often the power riders will try to thin the pace line gradually and then they token sprint a town line or maybe someone takes a flyer. But everyone sits up eventually and we re-group. If someone is off the back outta sight we keep going. Hills obviously beak up and the stick figures usually battle it out then sit up either on or after the descent unless it's a turn. I've been on a few different club's group rides and they all tend to be like that, maybe they want to enjoy a little more group dynamic and less power-fest? I'd give it a month and let people round into form and then reassess the dynamic. If your club really doesn't have a "Tuesday Night Worlds" then you might want to think about embracing the "group" part of the group ride.

Genuinely sounds like you're the problem, OP. Either figure out how to ride the correct way, or find another group.

But complaining about rolling off the front and whatever other shenanigans you're pulling and getting called out on it puts the onus on you.

Not every ride has to be a show of strength. Otherwise the actual fast people would just drop you any time they wanted. Training is not racing. Seems like it's the wannabes and cat 4s and 5s who don't quite understand that.

I’m on the board of my club, and even though it’s a touring club and we have WAYYYY DE HAYYYYY more drama than that.

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Level II USAT Coach | Level 3 USAC Coach | NASM-CPT
Team Zoot | Tailwind Trailblazer
I can tell you why you're sick, I just can't write you an Rx

dude, 18mph (average) is a no-drop B group ride. 18mph MAX is a warm-up.

Find another group or actually ride with the group. Group rides are not the time to "prove" to anyone you're fast. Save that for actual races, preferably only at the end of the race.

Why ride with a group if you want to go hard? Group rides for me are not hard intense training sessions. They are for socializing and building team morale, endurance or recovery pace, and a little bit of practice riding in groups.

I've always kinda figured a group ride where your that strong, your simply choosing the wrong group, even if it's a drop ride. If your riding off the front that easily and twiddling your thumbs waiting for them to catch up, your just wasting time by doing that ride.

ETA: So with it being in a smaller area, I'd communicate with the group and/or the "stronger" other riders to try and create an "A+" group that is allowed to "attack" the group, etc. Keeps everyone in the loop atleast of what the dynamics can be and maybe keeps everyone happy.


I will say for the group's prospective.....I'm not sure why they don't just let you ride away and they just keep doing their thing. But of course it's a group ride and many feelings/emotions seemingly always come out in those settings....someone's ALWAYS bitching about a group ride, no matter what.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It doesn’t bother me until people make bad safety calls. Like pulling out in front of oncoming traffic when you know the group can’t make it. Or going the wrong way up parts of a road to shave seconds by avoiding the hard left.

Or not calling out passing cars.

That crap will get someone killed.

Not enough groups have good written rules for each ride and someone announcing them before each ride. Or posting it online.

If you’re off the front the entire time, move up a group. I did and got my rear end handed to me by folks a lot stronger and smarter.

Also, if you have time for endless group race sim rides but don’t like politics, then just race cheap weekly crits and keep the group ride social.

Or be totally anti social like me and dabble in TT.

It’s Wednesday Night Worlds and a hammer fest. My first ride out I fell off the back, got dropped and got lost. My riding was molded by these same people.

It's a group ride. If you don't like it then form a harder level ride. Otherwise take a few psi out of your tires, wear baggy clothing and repeatedly drop back 100 yards and bridge back up. Best workout you will ever get. had similar problems with a ride in my previous club where a few riders made it their mission to drop as many as possible as early as possible. Nobody did well in races any more because all they knew was how to follow wheels and never risked sprinting or blowing up because of fear of getting dropped. Ended up we dropped every new rider and the ride died, The racing team ended up as a bunch of old TTers.

Some of my AG'ers (these are my "ladies" as everyone calls them) do a Wed night ride. I've done the ride now 3 times and for the life of me I cant figure out why the "leader" never lets anyone else share the load. It's a small group of lesser experienced/slower riders and I've mentioned a few times at the "stop breaks", to do a rotating paceline to get everyone involved and give them that experience. The leaders will be like "yeah let's do it" and then they just sit on the front. Not my ride, and not my shop, so I'm more staying out of the discussion, just weird to me how they do that ride. My athletes are enjoying the loop and it's a "safe" route (goes on greenways which is kinda annoying at 6pm with all the joggers/walkers but we use that as a "warm up" sorta). I've just never seen it where the group leader doesn't share the work. I've always thought "ride leader" doesn't have to mean you lead the ride the entire time, just means your in control of the route, etc.

(Different topic all together maybe, sorry )

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

You might be tone deaf if it's gotten to this point and you're bringing it to STers lol

It's basically a no drop ride in reality because if you drop anyone your the a-hole.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

I love if someone shares the load. I don’t want to carry the group. Some just show up for the draft fest. 15 second pulls and dropping the
Pull 50-100 watts is not okay.

Odd. I don't know. Chalk it up to early spring and let everyone get their legs under them? Maybe ask, what are we doing here.

I've been in some Tuesday Night Worlds rides and as long as everyone knows the expectations there isn't a problem. They get too sketchy for my taste, but can be a fun racing substitute. Sounds like folks just aren't on the same page.

That 18 mph thing sounds nuts. Most A groups don't really think in terms of mph, but are going to be cruising 25+ no problem in a pace line, and faster. Whole thing sounds "off".

There seems to be some disconnect here. It can't be a hammer fest "race" and have a speed cap. Thats not how an WNW I've ever been in has worked. In fact there's basically no rules. It CAN be a drop ride that supposed to mostly stick together but if you can't hang with the majority then you may get tailed off. Riding off the front is not the same as getting dropped off the back. It seems like you're holding this experience against the group as some kinda petty revenge. Take a look in the mirror

Basically many of the riders would rather bask in their former racing glory years, smash beers and push their roadie rules. I’m just frustrated with several of these folks and I’m not the only one getting singled out. Since I’m one of the stronger riders I’m getting railed on. A few weeks ago some of the faster riders told me something needed to change post ride. Shortly after, riders from the part of the group that couldn’t hang said the same thing obviously for the opposite reason. Ironic isn’t it...

If WNW is no rules then why now rules after riding like this for years? There’s no revenge. I learned to ride like this on these rides with these guys. Now their getting their asses handed to them and it’s time to get pissy? Sorry, but it doesn’t make sense does it?

You're the only one that is referring to it as WNW, we don't have the other side. What I'm saying is that in my part of the woods, no WNW type rides have 18mph pace limits, so if you're saying they are calling them a race with a 18mph limit then its the first of its type I've ever heard of or there's a disconnect between what is being said by the group and what you think the type of ride is. If the majority of the group is staying together and only 2-3 riders are going off the front I know who'd I'd point the finger at.

If WNW is 18 mph pace and your reporting that 21.5 was easy then your at wrong ride and/or what objective are you achieving? Showcasing how strong you are?

Your not really getting any safety benefits from the group with that much difference in pace.

As I said you mentioned 1-2 other strong riders. Maybe y’all can form a break group. Beyond that sounds like your just showing up for a weekly ass chewing even if your in the “right”.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Since the Strava segment is called WNW, and I didn’t create it I’d say it’s legit WNW. The KOM is 25mph average and was set two years ago by another rider not me. Just sayin...

Essentially every week it is a break group of 2 or 3. Just recently, others have become vocal against the break group and even some of the stronger riders in the drop group. The other guys in the break group have been around longer than me and they basically say to ignore the guys who are bitching and getting dropped. Total disconnect.

I don't care what they call it, but this is not a "world's" ride if people are going to bitch about getting dropped. The whole point of calling it a "world's" ride is that you have a whole bunch of people pushing themselves to their limits. If 2-3 guys can easily go off the front, then so be it...they are entitled to push their limits.

People are weird though...I would say the group of 2-3 that normally ride off the front should just form their own ride that starts 5-10 minutes earlier to avoid the drama of people who can't get over themselves.

Pretty much the best idea I’ve heard. It got so bad last summer/fall the guy doing most of the bitching kept peeling off and cutting the ride short because he didn’t feel good. It was like damn near every ride. Truth is I’m sure he’s an alcoholic that drinks every night (every night FB pics of booze). A lot of strong craft beer but also bourbon and probably whatever the hell else he can get his hands on. Yet he has the nerve to act like a douche when his fitness is now non-existent. It makes me want to drop the hammer even harder thinking about it. That’s his choice and the group shouldn’t be dictated by such a dick.

You need to find a different cycling club with members with objectives closer to yours. Or just ride on your own. Your current situation, whether caused by the luddites, the "break" people, or you, is moronic. If others in the club feel the same way just ride with them.

I did ride with a couple young guns a few weeks back. Only bad part is they live almost an hour away in the sticks, but the riding was great other than the 20 or so chasing dogs.

I’ve done a lot of solo riding. On Wednesday nights I think I’ll just continue to ride with the breakaway and try to ignore the mob mentality from the back.

Get some help man.

I’ll just ignore you like I’ll ignore him. I’m open to a different perspective or opinion but you’re just trying to start an argument. Peace!

From what you describe, you are in the wrong group unless you are looking for an easy recovery day. Move up to faster group or ride alone. No one needs drama. I don't really get it. If you ride away from the group and they stay together why should they care? Do you wait up for them and bitch about how slow they are going?

We just break away (earlier and earlier it seems) and everyone finishes in the same location. We don’t stop or wait. Everyone is cool for the most part face to face.

From what I gather there must be a ton of background chatter. The main instigator started an argument with me face to face two years ago. He then started more unrelated conflict on social media early this week. I did not respond to him, nor did I speak to him at the club ride. I plan to avoid him entirely from here forward. I do this for my personal enjoyment.

Find a new group that is actually fast. It’ll push you and it’ll be a lot more fun to be around likeminded folks. I recommend seeking out local road racers. You will learn, improve, and most likely be humbled.

THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!! 'wanner needs to stop creating drama here, and just get out and drop some bitches (or get dropped) on a roadie ride.

It sounds like your expectations of the group versus the realities you find yourself in are very different. If you don't change your expectations you'll just continue to be frustrated. I've found myself in similar situations before where I was wanting to drive the pace only to find the people behind me didn't even bother to try following my wheel. What can you do? You can't make someone hold your wheel.

You can either dial it back and hang with the pack or go do something else. You can always go off on your own the day before and after the ride and bash your own brains in that then take it easier with the group.

this

find a different ride or start a different ride

I'd be pretty pissed too if some tri douche showed up on a TT bike and broke off the front...

Just because a ride's not "no drop" doesn't mean that it's acceptable etiquette to blow the ride up right out of the gate.

Everyone keeps telling you to find a different ride, yet you insist on showing up to a ride with people who you've already have confrontations with, that you happen to leave out of the OP, what is wrong with you?

Take a look in the mirror

This is the best advice so far. The more I read, the more I'm persuaded that the OP shares much if not most of the blame for whatever this problem is.

It's called social awareness. If conforming to the ride norms doesn't work for you, ride alone or find a group that better fits your style.

It’s these type of threads that make me happy i ride solo. Avoid the drama. I do realize not all group rides have drama but I hear a lot of bitching about issues in group rides.

Most group rides don't have drama, but even when there is some, the upside often far outweighs it. What each group ride has is its own character which can be dependent on the route, the number of riders, their experience, whether it's organized or sponsored by a club or shop, formal or informal rules/etiquette, whether its primarily for recreation or race training, etc.. Add the fact that every rider brings his or her personality, and you have dynamics that change over time and often from week to week. Not every rider works for every person, but the variability is one of the things that makes them fun. But I also get that many still prefer to ride solo -- absolutely nothing wrong with that (unless your goal is to get fast).

this is what i don't understand ... who cares if someone rides off the front? i ride with a pretty strong group, and if some jerk decides to ride off the front, we let him. sure we could chase him down if we wanted to, but we don't. it doesn't effect anyone else in the slightest

for me, it's mostly that I have specific bike workout I'm executing which obviously doesn't fit well with a group ride. But also I tend to be solo with many things anyway

First off, you don’t really know what you’re talking about. We do a 3 mile warm up. After that everyone knows we’re racing Wednesday Night Worlds. Some of these folks aren’t putting in the time or effort in terms of fitness. Generally one of myself or two other riders sets the tempo. One of the guys rides cross and likes surging. He generally breaks the group apart. Last week, another strong rider hauled ass pretty early. I grabbed his wheel and that’s when the ride began. It’s not like I’m consistently taking the top off to be an asshole like you’re saying. It’s supposed to be a competitive group ride, but several seem to have lost any kind of competitive edge and are lashing out at other riders that still push the group.

My friend that took the lead this week was getting railed on in a back channel discussion by a female rider. There’s just too much behind the back bitching for my liking. I can’t change it unless I disassociate from the group.

Who cares if someone rides off the front and why are they a jerk? This is Wednesday Night Worlds. In other words, roadie rules don’t apply.

Any other group ride I ride differently with the group. I’m not sure some folks on here know what a Worlds ride is about, yet they’re shooting their mouths off.

The group (which includes you) don't agree on what this ride should be. The mature thing is to hang out after, have a frank discussion with everyone and sort it out. It sounds like you are on the verge of quitting it anyway. What's the harm?

...or just walk away now if its not worth it. I've never been on a group ride with the slightest hint of what you are describing. If it is as bad as it reads, I'm surprised the ride didn't break up long ago.

How big is the group usually? To have an “WNW” and yet only 2-3 are strong and the rest of group avg *only* 18?

It still sounds like to me you and your fast buddies are breaking away from an group that is otherwise using it much more of a group ride and not an “anything goes” that a WNW truly represents. Maybe the fast guys that once dusted everyone now are fat and slow and cranky. Whatever the reason it just doesn’t sound like a ride that is that fast and thus breaking away is kinda “eye rolling” to everyone else.

So not faulting you just saying from what your describing it’s really not much of an WNW group that you can have fun with. As I said I’m shocked they don’t just let you and others go as it’s what a 3mph difference in pace from what you’ve described in this thread. It’s no where close to an WNW pace group.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It sounds like your are assuming the ride is a training race of some sort and are using tactics to break the group up, which is fine in the context of a race. But others seem to feel it is a group ride, which is generally about keeping the group together, no matter if it is a drop or no drop ride. Mostly a "drop" ride means not waiting around for those straggling off the back, it doesn't mean going to the front and jacking up the pace like a cave man.

You need to determine if this is a training race or a group ride. From people's reactions, it sounds like you may be riding like a bit of a wanker. This ride, for you, won't be a hard training day, so plan accordingly or just go ride alone and keep working on your fitness.

As someone who has organized a lot of group rides, there is nothing more exasperating that some goofball riding 10 feet off the front of the group looking back they they are in some sort of race.

TT bikes are dangerous in a group and give a competitive advantage in a breakaway. Either reason makes someone a jerk for showing up on one to a competitive road ride.

If this is your reason for hammering the ride... maybe you are taking things too literally.
Strava segment names don't necessarily imply (for instance) that anytime your group ride hits that road it's automatically a full-throttle, take no prisoners race.

Next time your group ride is going to go there, ask the group (or just its leader) what the general plan is. If the group plan does not fit your wants or needs, then go off with a subgroup that does have the same intent as you do.

There's a little climbing segment in our town called "Heart Explosion". Every time I've been there, there is NOT a pile of red goo at the top.

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Less is more.

We live next to a military base so people come and go frequently. The group had some stud riders a few years back, but now not so much. Btw, I’m not the guy that does all the surging. I show up to ride hard for Worlds and kind of expect others to do the same. This was the dynamic when I joined. I flatted a few weeks back 0.10 mile into the ride. They did not stop and I had no issue as I know what the ride is about. They simply asked if I was good and I told them to go on while I changed my flat alone.

When I had my first child 17 years ago I wanted to continue exercising and competing but also needed to cut out all of the extraneous stuff. Group rides were one of the first things to go because they generally don't contribute as much to your fitness given the time that they consume. Sometimes I do one as a treat and now that my daughter is old enough she is able to come along with me, which is special.

But if you want to improve at the sport the best way is to do intervals alone or ride with a small group of two or three people or of course just go out and race bikes. I find a lot of group rides are just hard enough to leave you tired but not hard enough to help you improve so you have to kind of take it easy the next day and in so doing you are moving backwards rather than forwards if that makes sense.

18mph worlds better be about three Cat 3 or better climbs strung together. Or that ain’t worlds.

Ours locally are all 23+ including the roll out and roll in.

Even at 100ft per mile I’ve done training rides at darn near 20.

Sounds to me like a confusion about the name. Lots of people joke about the weeknight ride being “worlds”. Not all are.

Again, 18 for “worlds” is really slow unless you’re looping a mountain pass.

agree 100%. also find new group if you don't like how the rest of the group is riding. it sounds like your the issue. the mass group dictates pace...not one rider who has his own agenda.

I like how our club does WNR. It's "no drop" for approximately the first half. Depending on forecast winds, a projected outbound pace will be mentioned in the email, typically 20-22 mph. If that's just a bit much for somebody, the ride leader will back the pace off a touch to keep the group together. (If you're really slow, the ride leader will drop back with you, say "thanks for trying, but maybe you're not quite ready for this group. Do you know how to find your way back?") One optional intermediate sprint will be set on the outbound route, so the greyhounds can stretch their legs if they want. At a pre-announced location roughly half way, it's "game on." It's not a instant hammerfest, though. The fast guys get to the front and start creeping the pace up. Nobody rides off the front, but people start falling off the back. And so it goes until the last two standing sprint it out for the town line. At least that's what I've been told/seen on Strava, as I'm off the back well before that! Most times I solo TT it home, but sometimes two or more of us stragglers will form a "groupetto of shame" and softishly pedal our broken asses to the finish together. Fast guys are handing out beer from a cooler to the stragglers as they come in.

OP, Sounds like you need to sit down with the group and try to hammer out some mutually agreeable parameters for the ride. And maybe that's the group staying together at ~18mph to some agreed upon landmark before it becomes "every man for himself." Whatever this ride used to be, it sounds like the majority of folks don't want to (and probably can't) hit it as hard as you want to.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

I think OP must be trolling. Strong rider? Breakway? Race? 18mph? Do you live in the mountains or something?

You are talking a mid-B group. By definition, the goal of such group is to keep everyone together (drop or no-drop) and racing is usually not the goal. If you want a hard ride where attacks are expected and encouraged, find an A-group. This whole conversation feels like complaining about complaining about the aerodynamic property of a share-ride bike... oh... am I at slowtwitch? I'll show myself out...

That’s my point. There’s a group of guys that are riding every WNW race group at 18-19 average, which should be B group. One is a total dick of a former racer that drinks a lot and has lost all fitness and motivation and thinks it’s his job to push people around. He’s got a group of buddies (followers) that are also similar to him. The rest of the group is a mixed bag. There are some very strong riders and some improving riders. There’s a few other riders that will go 22-24mph. The group is really split in terms of ability and it’s not growing. I know some of the politics I’m speaking of has driven some away. A fellow triathlete won’t come back due to conflict with the same guy I’m having an issue with.

These guys riding 18-19mph need to drop to A or B group and check their egos.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything you say. I’m glad someone actually gets it.

I recommend you stick to Zwift.

7/10 on the troll.

It was actually only 2/10 on quality, but you got 5 points for the traction.

Between you and "sub 5 or I die and I don't care if I leave my kids orphans" there have been w pretty great trolls in a couple days.

Well done sir, well done.

I was on a group ride a while back we were rolling out of town nice and tidy in two lines just setting up pace to get warmed up before we hit the hills. Some guy kept riding up between us and tried to keep going harder so he'd be like 10 feet off the front of the pack. We asked the guy to tone it down to no avail. At one point he made another one of his heroic attacks and got a nice Gap. So we just turned left and left him to his solo breakaway.

Sometimes I think about all of the oddball characters I've met through 40 years of cycling I'd love to have them all together on one big group ride. That would be colorful.

I reminded of running xc back in HS. We had a pretty studly team, state champions who would go on and rep team USA.

I remember just a long easy run where one of young kids kept leading like 10’ ahead of everyone the whole time. It was kinda like we all knew he was meaning to do it.

So what did we do? Quietly without him noticing it we turned around and went in opposite direction. It was brilliant. He didn’t notice for a mile that’s how much he was trying to stay “off the front” before noticing we left him.
Lesson learned by him, of course I was a freshman that year so I was kinda in back so I couldn’t go off front as I was fast but not on their level. So their “easy” was my probaly “moderate” but I was also the rookie so I dared not try and ever “lead” the run.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

You could start your own club. Sounds like you've got several other people who have had it with that group and would be happy to join you. I've seen this frequently in cycling. I'm lucky to have tons of clubs and rides around me, since I'm picky about who I ride with. Then, there are clubs/rides that scare me to death when I see them out riding...

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"Most of my heroes don't appear on no stamps"
Blog = http://extrememomentum.com|Photos = http://wheelgoodphotos.com

Yes. The two wanna-be roadies should start a club!

At least sheepster has found a compatible group. mwhiner needs to follow suit instead of complaining. You already have a built in infrastructure with like-minded riders just waiting to be extracted and exploited. Just step up, be a leader, and get it going instead of waiting for the original group to change to suit you.

Have you ever rode a Worlds night? I’d speculate there are a lot of triathletes that don’t even know anything about that type of ride.

but if it's you and two other guys, is it? just be a pack animal roadie and fuck with those guys at every turn, that would be more fun. don't just take off, stretch em out a bit, but keep them in contact, dont let them know you can ride up the road never to be seen again. keep giving them hope, act like you're knackered just to make it stink. soo much fun, you're missing it dude!. :)

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http://www.PatGriskusTri.com USAT Certified Race Director
2024 Races: USAT State of CT Age Group Championship/State of CT HS Champs/ CT Club Championship - Sat June 15th (Oly/Du/Sprint) Hopkins Vineyard Tri at Lake Waramaug Saturday July 13th http://www.HopkinsVineyardTri.com

Am one of the main riders of a local group ride. It's a drop ride, with some ex- and current continental racers showing up. But it is explicitly advertised as NOT a hammerfest. Average speed for the ride is around 33-34kph.

What's important in our ride is that everyone understands their role in the ride. If you're a strong rider, take your pulls. There are 3-4 of us regulars who could be riding abit faster, but typically we just treat it as a long tempo session. Ride on the front for 30 mins at 36 kph. Then there are a couple of sprint points. More than enough for you to get a good workout in. The weaker riders just sit in and gradually get stronger because its a workout for them as well.

If everyone is on board with similar goals and can check their egos the ride works.

Road cycling club drama is part of why I bailed out of riding with groups, got a tri bike and started training solo. I still enjoy the peace and quiet and have not forgotten how bad the drama was. However, it was completely different than this thread. Most of the difficulties came from members bringing their friends that were too inexperienced, wouldn’t follow the rules during the ride, were taking risks in the group, complaining constantly about the route, the pace, the weather, you name it they complained. Most of the time I had to drop out of the group and make sure a weak rider made it back safely. I don’t have the patience to go 6mph for 20 miles back with a rider that bonked. I helped organize, put the email out and lead the ride for one season until I couldn’t take it anymore.

Occasionally I will ride with a small group of friends but I’ve come to really enjoy solo training and cycling.

Is it actually a world’s ride though, or is that just the name of the Strava segment for the route you follow? Very different things. I just ask bc 18 mph max, no attacking doesn’t sound like a world’s ride. Frankly if that were the case I’d be baffled.

Other option: get some fat tires and hit the dirt! More exciting variety of terrain, new challenges, less likely to get hit by cars, and, as long as you are not disrespectful to the trails that people have worked hard to build, no drama!

 
when you say cycling club, is this actually a club with a commitee, or just one of these strava/facebook "clubs"

if the former, it sounds like you need to talk to the commitee, and see what their view is.

First, that was a good example of why I shouldn't post when I've been drinking.

Second, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about when it comes to road cycling.

Every club and individual has their own definitions of what's "hard", "race", "no drop", etc. No point getting frustrated about stuff you can't change. If there's a bunch of guys who want to ride at 18mph and have made it clear that's what they want to do, then if you don't want to ride at 18mph don't go on that ride. The guy you think is a douchebag is probably posting on another forum right now venting about the guy who keeps turning up to a "CAPPED 18MPH RIDE" and then goes off the front at 21mph and breaks the group up.

If you want to ride at 21mph then set up a ride, within or without the structures of the current club, for people who want to ride at 21mph. Sounds like you'll get enough takers to have at least a small group, and if not then you ride solo which is what you'll be doing anyway. And I imagine the guys who want to roll at 18 and have a beer afterwards will be happier as well as they'll be left in peace to do their thing.

I've actually seen another club go through a very similar evolution to this. When I first showed up it was a pretty social club, weekend rides were all no drop or regroup, they liked their coffee stops before and mid-ride, and a beer afterwards, I would ride with them occasionally at weekends but only when I was in a recovery week and had plenty of time on my hands. They also had a midweek evening ride, 20 mile loop done "balls out", with a few different groups setting off at intervals. Even the "fast" group really wasn't that fast, maybe 20-21mph first time I did it, but they were nice people and the start point and time were on my route home from cycling to work, so adding it on took me from ~35 to ~55 miles for the day which was decent. A few other faster riders started showing up, things started to get competitive, riders were getting stronger, and the speed of that fast group kept creeping up until about a year later it would be at 25+mph. Then that ethos started seeping into the weekend rides. The club still had the social rides with coffee stops, but some of the riders who had been getting stronger through the midweek rides started organising weekend rides that were a bit more challenging. Club is now larger overall as they can offer something for everybody from the casual recreational rider through to those who want to race, and nobody got overly dramatic about it. Everyone's a winner.

I'll say this, if you do have a weeknight ride you like but are growing out of.........do your intervals and burn up your glycogen before the group ride starts. If you want to still ride your road bike.

I've done this recently a few times with the local A ride that's about 19 including all the slow stuff through the city/campus. It makes it a good bit harder.

I did 50 mi of tempo and a couple intervals before the last time I did the normal local A, and the last two mile pull I put in near the end of that ride hurt soooooo bad.

Also, once, I rode the 1x cyclocross bike on some big Gators. Bit of a difference between that and the road race bike on GP4000 tires.

We even had a local Cat 3 or faster dude show up and keep up on his mountain bike somehow.

There's an option, the intentional handicap.

My cycling club has no problem whatsoever... with triathletes riding off the front!

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Munq

This. My dad used to say - "if you're in a group and you don't know who the a**hole is, it's probably you."

In all seriousness, it sounds like the OP did some serious training over the winter and wants to air things out. Good for him, but he probably shouldn't ride with this group anymore. I gave up group riding in about 2010 - I still like all the guys I rode with then (mostly they're older and I know them from work), but I had started doing triathlons again and it just didn't work out. It may be a good solution for the OP to start his own "club," even if it is only a handful of riders. No reason for anyone to be a jerk about it, though.

As a TT guy who races no draft...I have done a few group rides with buddies for the company...

But cycling groups and drafting are cute :-)

This thread is awesome. It's basically all the bullshit of group rides, now written on an Internet forum. I can even match comments with some folks.
Thanks for the entertainment, lads.

Our A group rides from our tri shop there is no "tuesday night worlds" tag line to it. It's just basically bring what you got. There are 2 people that when they show up, no one can touch. Of course both will play nice and paceline in the group, they don't "drop" the hammer at first segment, they let the ride develop and then the deciding moment will lay down the speed. Of course this ride sheds riders pretty much from the start after the "warm up", so even before the line in the sand segment of the ride, just the intensity of the ride sheds riders every so often up until that point. Then there's one road that really "blows up" the group. Of course they all come back smiling and sharing their ride war stories on who got dropped first, who didn't pull enough all in good fun with beers after. No dramas, no "hurt" feelings.....You show up on the day and maybe your the hammer, but just know that you'll likely be the nail to someone. But makes most of them stronger even "sitting in", etc.


If you can ride away from an A group paceline working to catch you and/or stay on your wheels- you got the goods. Most people can't.

Those 2 people- one is a roadie and one shows up on a full aero'd out TT bike. The TT'er shows up much less than the roadie does.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

This. You're too fast for this group, you don't like this group generally, and it sounds like they don't like you. Sounds like an obvious solution! As others have mentioned, there is a difference between aggressively trying to drop the group (slingshotting through the gap after front rider falls off, etc) and just generally riding fast and hoping others can hold on. It sounds like you get this and this isn't your transgression though. Any group who calls themselves an A group and targets 18mph seems off, but if you keep on coming around and banging your head against a wall, at a certain point it's kind of your own fault.

Agree with everything you say apart from allowing a guy on a TT bike out on a group roadie ride!

I didn't call it a roadie ride. :)

Our A group rides from our tri shop

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I have done TONS of roadie group rides on a TT bike.

You just have to ride it like it's a road bike, unless you're off the front.
Never once had anybody complain, and in fact, have done several rides where some guys didn't even notice/realize that I was on a TT bike until after the ride ended.

Just follow the usual rules, ride like you know WTF you're doing, and don't be a dick.

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float , hammer , and jog

Or you can ride with most people you trust and thus can ride down in the TT bars the whole time and never really have crashes.

Is it the "safest" thing to do? No

Can it be done in the right environment? Yes and it’s communicated as part of the ride, so take it or leave it.

ETA: and if your a roadie that doesn’t like that then guess what you do...you go ride one of the various other 20 “roadie” rides in our area.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Better be keeping the required distance away from each other! Drafting is a NO NO lol

This exactly. I’m already down to one weekly club ride, which was the Wednesday night hammer fest. At this point it almost seems like that ride isn’t going to benefit me very much anymore either. I’m better off doing my own thing or at least finding a couple riders of similar abilities that can make the rides fun, challenging and beneficial. I have some friends that I can get together with on the occasional weekend that are an hour away.

That might be the best solution for you. I have found that in the smaller groups, I felt a lot more accountable and I got more out of it. In the perfect world, you find a couple or three nice guys who are complete hammers and the whole thing is good competitive fun (no mercy, of course). The other part of it, and I think it might have been said before, but you can always get some miles in with the existing group on your easier days.


.

It sounds like your kinda in middle of no where so have limited “social” options. Have you thought about building your solo workouts around an “easy” group ride on wed night for yourself? Why not just adapt and ride 18 mph group ride (and sit in the group) if it’s your only weekly social ride?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Nearly all the group rides I've done either don't allow TT bikes or strongly disapprove of them (other than TTT practices obviously). I don't really see the point of riding a TT bike like a road bike - hoods position is much more comfortable for cruising and climbing than the pursuits, and drops position is better for handling through fast technical sections or descents. Even if you only use the bars when on the front you're short-changing the guy behind who gets less draft benefit than he would from a road bike. And sadly in my experience there is a strong correlation between people who show up for group rides on a TT bike and people who either don't know or don't care how to ride safely and considerately in a group. I'd guess that's probably the main reason they're disapproved of - not so much that you can't ride a TT bike safely in a group but that a lot of people don't.

Actually, the #1 thing I have seen is that if it is one or two folks with the TT bike or bars........they're the most likely to get dropped. The bars are there because they can't avoid getting dropped on the A ride otherwise.

If the ride has a pretty even mix of tri bikes and road bikes, no idea. Mixed bag.

Those bars won't help uphill though. You don't see the tri bikes having much success in-town where its more hilly. Everybody loves the super flat country roads. Can't hide the flab on the hills.

That's the issue, it's the type of rider that typically shows up on a TT bike more than the TT bike itself. If they're not strong enough to hang with the group without the TT bike then they're likely to be a liability. They're probably not that experienced at group riding (if they did a lot of it they'd be stronger), they're going to be tempted to get on the aerobars when the pace goes up even if they're following wheels at the time, and there may be ego issues as well (otherwise they'd be riding in a slower paced group or on a road bike).

The other type of rider I commonly see show up on a TT bike is the guy who doesn't actually seem to want to be on a group ride. Spend a lot of time hanging far enough off the back to safely be on their bars, then periodically surge past everybody and hammer off the front, often launching long range attacks before a designated sprint point, or sometimes just riding off into the distance as if they never meant to join the ride anyway (I suspect in some cases they're going deep into the red zone doing this and then turn off for a rest as soon as they get out of sight). Often wear headphones as well, very odd behaviour but I've seen it on quite a few occasions...

We still arguing about this?

If you want a workout - dont do a group ride. Don't draft. Go out by yourself and hammer until you are going to puke. You are better off than some cute little social gathering with fat dudes/women who brag they went 23 mph for an hour. No - you went 24 mph for 15 minutes - which is how long you pulled in the front. You didn't do sh*t haha

I don't understand that. I'd pick my road bike for a group ride where I was marginal.

FTFY. Around here, a few groups are big enough that unless you're a pull hog you're never going to accumulate any time on front.

You'd also be shocked how much you can suck people up a hill in a bigger group. So long the grade is like 2% or less.

If people have handling skills, and it's not racing sim, I've no problem with wheel suckers so long as you don't surge or sprint after sitting at 50 watts for an hour. Most of them I've seen aren't necessarily bragging about the pace, it's just where they are. Some do.

I feel that a good number of people rotating at high speed is from 4 to 8. Enough to suffer, but not so little to lose pace. You usually wind up seeing about 4 to 8 people in the huge groups pulling all the time anyway.

I'm a dick, but if I had to do a route for a group ride......I'd put a nice 2 to 3 minute hill right within the first 1/3 of the ride. Natural selection.