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First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Now that's an interesting looking bike but a trash compartment??? Wallet holder??Hmmmmm, are we overthinking integration a bit?
No skewer like Omni.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Sep 14, 16 19:22
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Now that's an interesting looking bike but a trash compartment??? Hmmmmm, are we overthinking integration a bit?

Actually, I think in LD tri - putting sticky used gels in with unused just makes a mess...I would prefer two compartments. And never would have thought about it so I think it's pretty genius actually!

This is pretty forward thinking, I think...well done DB.

Brent

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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very nice

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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That is one ugly bike!

Reminds me of this:


Looking at the video, they're sponsoring Weiss....sigh.

On the bright side, it's great to see all these companies (DB, Dimond, TriRig, Ventum, etc.) really pushing the design boundaries.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I do like the out-out-the-box thinking. Especially the shrouded chain ring, if that is actually legal...

But a white paper with no wind-tunnel results? Did they really only do tiny-scale testing??

And this:

"THE INTRODUCTION OF ROAD BIKE DISC BRAKES SIGNALED ANOTHER TANTALIZING POSSIBILITY FOR ANDEAN. Disc brakes outperform rim brakes and their calipers are more easily hidden from the wind. And given the wheels-first design process of Andean, rim brakes just aren’t in the cards: the future of wheel technology will undoubtedly feature discs."

Makes me wonder how much of this is a team making a serious bike for serious athletes or is it like the shiny new optimus prime transformer I wanted as a kid - looks super-technical and science-y and bad-ass but really is just a futuristic looking toy.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: Sep 14, 16 19:25
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [dfru] [ In reply to ]
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I guess i would just prefer to put in jersey or tri pockets which are more easily cleaned than a small bike compartment or dump at aid station
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I was waiting to get rickrolled on the links...
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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now this is something!

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Looks awesome
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
I do like the out-out-the-box thinking. Especially the shrouded chain ring, if that is actually legal...

But a white paper with no wind-tunnel results? Did they really only do tiny-scale testing??

And this:

"THE INTRODUCTION OF ROAD BIKE DISC BRAKES SIGNALED ANOTHER TANTALIZING POSSIBILITY FOR ANDEAN. Disc brakes outperform rim brakes and their calipers are more easily hidden from the wind. And given the wheels-first design process of Andean, rim brakes just aren’t in the cards: the future of wheel technology will undoubtedly feature discs."

Makes me wonder how much of this is a team making a serious bike for serious athletes or is it like the shiny new optimus prime transformer I wanted as a kid - looks super-technical and science-y and bad-ass but really is just a futuristic looking toy.

Sigh...another disc brake equipped Tri bike ironically shown with Hed Jet Black rims <smh>

"Calipers are more easily hidden from the wind"? Really?? Better tell that to the Speed Concept :-/

Yeah, the lack of ANY tunnel data is pretty disappointing...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [ors0] [ In reply to ]
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ors0 wrote:
Looks awesome

I agree!

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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At what point do we call that lower part of the frame a fairing?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I never thought I'd say this... I think they went too far.

Also: are those carbon clincher HEDs?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I am actually excited about tri bike design again, the first fully and i mean fully integrated tri bike. You could ever store a beer for the post ride party.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I remember having a conversation with Brad DeVaney (head engineer at QR) about a "MotoGP-style bike" - Brad's background is in motorcycle racing - back in 2007. Same conversation where we talked about moving air away from the drivetrain that eventually morphed into QR's "shift" technology that I think is pretty cool and if another company besides QR were doing it, it'd get a lot more notice. Anyway, I'm actually sort of surprised it took so long...

Beyond that, I think it's at least an intriguing thought experiment. Would be nice if they'd picked another athlete to work with, though. At the very least, I would think they'd want an athlete who has at least some credibility. When you have a design that is that crazy, convincing people to even give you a chance is a huge, huge obstacle. And I don't see Weiss helping them very much in that regard.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Gerard doesn't post on here much anymore, but I seem to recall him saying that they were actually able to beat the Baracchi pretty handily with the P3, so that you didn't really need to be all that crazy to be fast. If anyone else recalls anything along these lines, please correct me or otherwise clarify...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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who was the female athlete that was talking in the videos?

Maurice
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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One other thought - I wonder how much discussion they had with WTC on this, if any. You all may recall TJ Tollakson's "storage system" that was disallowed. I would not be sure that this thing is legal for triathlon unless they involved some folks from ITU, WTC, USAT, etc pretty early on.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
who was the female athlete that was talking in the videos?

Maurice

Rachel McBride: http://rachelmcbride.com/

Super cool. Pretty out there. Kind of like that bike. Wink

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
One other thought - I wonder how much discussion they had with WTC on this, if any. You all may recall TJ Tollakson's "storage system" that was disallowed. I would not be sure that this thing is legal for triathlon unless they involved some folks from ITU, WTC, USAT, etc pretty early on.

TJ's was basically a nosecone/windshield to shield the rider. IMO (and just MO) as long as the bike is making itself more aerodynamic it's fine (that describes the new Diamondback). As soon as parts of the bike exist to shield the rider it's an illegal fairing.


TJ's Nosecone




ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.

I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
who was the female athlete that was talking in the videos?

Maurice


Rachel McBride: http://rachelmcbride.com/

Super cool. Pretty out there. Kind of like that bike. Wink

Ahh, OK.

I don't know her but she is familiar from various B.C. races.

You have to have a soft spot for a pro triathlete who post's beer mile and gravel races in her official results ;-)

...looks like a strong cyclist and a pretty good athlete.

More important than the bike, can you do a beer mile in 6:38?

Maurice
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.

I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.

What makes you say that? Best I can tell from the pics they look like the Jet rims

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.


I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.

I assumed those are Jet Plus Disc Brake wheels?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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Uncle Phil wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.


I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.

I assumed those are Jet Plus Disc Brake wheels?

Plus, the "white paper" specifically states that they designed around Hed Jets...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Uncle Phil wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.


I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.


I assumed those are Jet Plus Disc Brake wheels?


Plus, the "white paper" specifically states that they designed around Hed Jets...

"Grey paper" ;-)

Maurice
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [wbattaile] [ In reply to ]
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wbattaile wrote:
At what point do we call that lower part of the frame a fairing?

Now. Exactly now.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.

I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.

What makes you say that? Best I can tell from the pics they look like the Jet rims

The brake track on the Jet Black rims is very distinct as you know. I see what looks like a brake track but it appears to be too thin and I don't see any texture. Maybe it's just the low resolution pics.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Eagerly awaiting Romulus's opinion on this Ducatiback.

----
@adamwfurlong
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Hope the light saber business is doing well...
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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Wow this thing is wild. Im pretty just about everyone on this forum knows way way way more than me about the technical side of bike design. All I can say is it is aesthetically pleasing and really cool to see the design limits being pushed
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Now you know what I was vaguely referring to when you pinged me about disc brakes last week, Jordan. Been sitting on this for exactly one year. More intel (drag data, design stuff, quotes from the engineers, amazing photos) can be found on the internet now for those interested in that kind of stuff.

And yeah, this bike is way out there... I applaud the thinking and application. And the sheer chance-taking on Diamondback's part.

Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Why hate on Weiss? Nevermind the fact this isn't about him, it's about the bike. So don't push your own agenda. That said, Weiss is one of the strongest cyclists in the sport - what better way to showcase your product? I'm assuming your comment is in regards to his past indiscretions and I'd wager the majority of athletes buying this thing have no idea of his past - just that he posted a crazy bike split on an equally crazy looking machine. Those that do could care less of who's riding it (myself included).

Back to the bike, please.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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That would be the biggest fail imaginable. Highly doubt a legitimate company of scale made the same mistake as some pro triathlete tinkerer working out of his garage.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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Want. I've always loved Akira!


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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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davews09 wrote:
Why hate on Weiss? Nevermind the fact this isn't about him, it's about the bike. So don't push your own agenda. That said, Weiss is one of the strongest cyclists in the sport - what better way to showcase your product? I'm assuming your comment is in regards to his past indiscretions and I'd wager the majority of athletes buying this thing have no idea of his past - just that he posted a crazy bike split on an equally crazy looking machine. Those that do could care less of who's riding it (myself included).

Back to the bike, please.

Easy for the guy who pushes the most watts to have a fast split. Now take a guy who pushes 20w less on average and is consistently top 3 bike splits, but never fastest and put him on the bike and suddenly a race best bike split and you have something. Similar to the Crowie/Shiv campaign.

_________________________________
Fit Endurance Coaching - Head Coach|Facebook
USAT L1 Coach | BikeFit Certified Fitter | Contributing Writer - Triathlete Magazine | ROKA
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
"Grey paper" ;-)

They have a chart on the site now, so there has been a little bit of bleaching at least

As the kind of person that digitises and saves wind tunnel graphs I took the liberty of overlaying the new data on the original Serios data

Dashed lines are from the Serios release. I normalised the 0deg point for the Serios curves.

I applaud DB for what they've tried to do here. But it's really not looking like there is much benefit at the yaw angles that matter compared to a 4 year old superbike. And I'd really want to see rider-on data for a bike like this.

Additionally - the choice of Hed bars doesn't help the fit range, so the utility of this bike is rather hampered, no matter how much stuff it can carry.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.


I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.


What makes you say that? Best I can tell from the pics they look like the Jet rims


The brake track on the Jet Black rims is very distinct as you know. I see what looks like a brake track but it appears to be too thin and I don't see any texture. Maybe it's just the low resolution pics.

The disc brake versions don't have a brake track. I think that's what you are seeing...
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty fugly compared to a P5 for not much gain at low yaw.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Except for the meat slicer braker i think it looks very good, i dont think i would carry a wallet on a race though ;)

=====================================
S�rgio Marques
When it hurts is when it feels good ;-)
Sergio-Marques.com
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
BryanD wrote:
No. HED does not make carbon clinchers.

I know they haven't historically but those aren't the HED Blacks. Maybe a new rim.

What makes you say that? Best I can tell from the pics they look like the Jet rims

The brake track on the Jet Black rims is very distinct as you know. I see what looks like a brake track but it appears to be too thin and I don't see any texture. Maybe it's just the low resolution pics.

Hed did make a full carbon clincher some years ago. It was a very finished product that never actually made it to market, only to a few select testers.

Funnily enough the reason they never made it to full production was Mr. Hed wasn't happy with how the full carbon rim disapated heat. The resins etc. were fine but the heat generated from long braking cycles were exceeding what the tubes and tyres could take. Same reason Shimano don't make a full carbon clincher. Obviously not a problem with disc brakes. . .
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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All those cubby holes and I see hydration integration completely ignored.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
I never thought I'd say this... I think they went too far.

,....

Me too.
I think its ugly as hell.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Would be nice if they'd picked another athlete to work with, though. At the very least, I would think they'd want an athlete who has at least some credibility. When you have a design that is that crazy, convincing people to even give you a chance is a huge, huge obstacle. And I don't see Weiss helping them very much in that regard.

Jay's article mentioned Matt Russell being on it in Kona, which I think is a much better move than Weiss. Just sucks that Matt has to be associated with Weiss to ride this bike............

Couldn't agree more with your comments. As an above poster stated most people have no idea, which is too bad. Luckily there is a decent amount of Pros that speak out about the convicted dopers, so they are becoming more known I think.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Not exactly true. HED planned to do a carbon clincher about five years ago but pulled back on the project when they weren't happy with the heat generated in the brake track when the clamps were applied. At that point I "think" their position was that they were not willing to build up the rims for rim brakes, but that they would be ok for disc braking.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
Hunter S. Thompson
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Another long and low option hitting the market I see

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:
All those cubby holes and I see hydration integration completely ignored.

In reference to this and the lack of integrated hydration on the Omni... I may be "mis-remembering" this but doesn't specialized have a patent on "inside the frame" hydration? As I said I maybe wrong about this.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [leegoocrap] [ In reply to ]
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looks heavy to me.

for the most part I like the direction the are moving, if it said cervelo on it people would be tripping over themselves to buy it.

Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3I-oY_HvE

Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [dyarab] [ In reply to ]
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dyarab wrote:
snaaijert wrote:
All those cubby holes and I see hydration integration completely ignored.


In reference to this and the lack of integrated hydration on the Omni... I may be "mis-remembering" this but doesn't specialized have a patent on "inside the frame" hydration? As I said I maybe wrong about this.

Yes Spesh have a patent for the bladder in the downtube. I know nothing about patent law but it would shock me if such a patent would blanket the whole frame. Ventum seemed to find a solution (of course, they don't even have a downtube) Perhaps some sleuths can find the patent filing.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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snaaijert wrote:

Yes Spesh have a patent for the bladder in the downtube.

I still don't really understand how they can have that patent when trek did it for he who must not be named before Specialized ever made a carbon TT bike. With my limited knowledge of patent law I have to assume that the patent hasn't been challenged as no-one else cares to try to prove prior art.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sure Specialized's litigious nature is a factor in all of this, I seem to (mis)remember that Felt wanted to do something similar with their Felt IA (with such a massive DT it's painfully obvious they should have) but didn't/couldn't. I hadn't heard of Trek's iteration, a bit before I really got into tri's I think. Do you have more info?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, so ugly.

What's the deal with that huge downtube? In real life it's not fared by the front tyre - it moves around a lot.

All that integration but no hydration?

And once again we need to see a person on board. They're bikes, we ride them.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Think it will be introduced and ridden at Kona this year?

Mike
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
snaaijert wrote:


Yes Spesh have a patent for the bladder in the downtube.


I still don't really understand how they can have that patent when trek did it for he who must not be named before Specialized ever made a carbon TT bike. With my limited knowledge of patent law I have to assume that the patent hasn't been challenged as no-one else cares to try to prove prior art.

Actually, there's a much better example of prior art in the form of the Cat Cheetah which has been on the market for many years and has an almost identical bladder system. A really bogus patent that has unnecessarily stifled competition in the industry. But presume no one wants to spend the $$ to challenge.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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And to think my very first road bike was a Diamondback I purchased at Dick's for about $200. WOW! This is a crazy looking bike!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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"One other thought - I wonder how much discussion they had with WTC on this, if any. You all may recall TJ Tollakson's "storage system" that was disallowed. I would not be sure that this thing is legal for triathlon unless they involved some folks from ITU, WTC, USAT, etc pretty early on. "


TJ's front storage system did not fit inside the size parameters of the USAT rule for such an item on the front of the bike.

Habitual line stepper.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Gerard doesn't post on here much anymore, but I seem to recall him saying that they were actually able to beat the Baracchi pretty handily with the P3, so that you didn't really need to be all that crazy to be fast. If anyone else recalls anything along these lines, please correct me or otherwise clarify...

Yea, I think I remember that as well. But you have to remember that at the time they were working with fewer tools and money. I have no idea if one could make the same statement today...with that said, the gains that could be made in aerodynamic advances are getting thinner and thinner.

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:

I applaud DB for what they've tried to do here. But it's really not looking like there is much benefit at the yaw angles that matter compared to a 4 year old superbike. And I'd really want to see rider-on data for a bike like this.

Additionally - the choice of Hed bars doesn't help the fit range, so the utility of this bike is rather hampered, no matter how much stuff it can carry.

I wonder if the next Cervelo improved on the P5 to the same degree if everyone would be falling all over themselves that the new model is faster? Also notable that this shows a disc brake bike that's faster than a rim brake bike, heresy as that may be in the ST world.

Also worth noting is this copy from the paper:
Instead of adapting a bike from another purpose, we’re taking a gamble to cater to a relatively small group of racers who are looking for more out of their bikes. We are confident the results will be undeniable.


In other words, they don't plan to sell a lot of these. Seems their target audience is long course triathletes, they generally ride at somewhat slower speeds which gain more benefit from high yaw. Also they ride in more relaxed positions so the fit range and bar also is more appropriate.

Also have to consider that given the "small group" that this is aimed at, this may be a "halo" bike intended to enhance their brand and help drive sales of more conventional models. I wonder if their development costs were kept in check by using a bunch of grad students for a lot of the design, and use of a half scale tunnel which saved costs on prototyping.

Personally, this bike won't make my list to consider for my next bike but I really applaud their out of the box thinking and innovation. Lots of interesting stuff happening, looking to see what might come from Cannondale & Cervelo next.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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I think Trimble bikes (circa 1990 or so) back when the USTS was The Circuit, had an internal bladder and some/a small internal storage options. What's old is new again.

Anyway the DB reminds me of an advanced Trimble. The kids on here will need to google Trimble Bikes

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Last edited by: desert dude: Sep 15, 16 5:02
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I think Trimble bikes (circa 1990 or so) back when the USTS was The Circuit, had an internal bladder and some/a small internal storage options. What's old is new again.

Anyway the DB reminds me of an advanced Trimble. The kids on here will need to google Trimble Bikes

Do you remember how those things sounded when ridden. They sounded like you were riding a big base drum.

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I think Trimble bikes (circa 1990 or so) back when the USTS was The Circuit, had an internal bladder and some/a small internal storage options. What's old is new again.


Anyway the DB reminds me of an advanced Trimble. The kids on here will need to google Trimble Bikes


There was one for sale on here a while back.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Classifieds_F2/FS:_1990_Trimble_Aero_Cycles_SN_066_P4455481/



I wrote this, you should read it:
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Don't they support Captain America himself (Matt Russell (Sp?))
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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They will be soon I bet. Saw an article not long ago about how they were able to start insourcing some CNC work to make molds and that it would reduce the costs of making carbon rims or something and to "stay tuned". Thinly veiled as CC coming.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
Rappstar wrote:
One other thought - I wonder how much discussion they had with WTC on this, if any. You all may recall TJ Tollakson's "storage system" that was disallowed. I would not be sure that this thing is legal for triathlon unless they involved some folks from ITU, WTC, USAT, etc pretty early on.


TJ's was basically a nosecone/windshield to shield the rider. IMO (and just MO) as long as the bike is making itself more aerodynamic it's fine (that describes the new Diamondback). As soon as parts of the bike exist to shield the rider it's an illegal fairing.


TJ's Nosecone



TJ's mistake there was not integrating the fluid storage into the top of the nosecone fairing with this hands underneath. Then he could have claimed it was an integrated aero water bottle (which is what the Shiv guys are able to claim in the downtube).
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [zachboring] [ In reply to ]
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Some bits seem good IMO for design progression (frame storage for flat kit/tools I think is brilliant, and disc brakes - HED partnership aside they shouldve slapped a zipp disc disc on there for show). But as a whole package...Yikes it's a little overwhelming.

Good point made before about how the front wheel is often turned so that fair isnt going to perfect a lot of the time..
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [zachboring] [ In reply to ]
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I am more of a fan of chopper/bobber style than crotch rocket.




2019 T-Rex Tri Series
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [stephenj] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
They sounded like you were riding a big base drum.

You say that like it's a bad thing ;-)

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Last edited by: desert dude: Sep 15, 16 5:26
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.

3 pages until someone hit the nail.....that thing looks like a nightmare in crosswinds.

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


3 pages until someone hit the nail.....that thing looks like a nightmare in crosswinds.

Unless you're in the lead and drafting off the NBC camera motos and/or lead van.

**

Poor TriRig got their launch upstaged.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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if you drop your chain on that puppy(for whatever reason) good luck getting it out with the shielded chainring :)
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
if you drop your chain on that puppy(for whatever reason) good luck getting it out with the shielded chainring :)
That's why there is an integrated compartment for a chain tool. Also holds wet wipes for post-bathroom stop hygiene.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.

could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Thrash can and wallet integrations are well thought. I would like to see an integrated urine container.
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Re: First Look [ In reply to ]
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I think of they passed on the toolkit part of the down tube it would be a really great looking bike!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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surfNJmatt wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vn3I-oY_HvE

That brake cable hanging out into the wind at 1:03 though... Trim that sh*t or bend it back. Sheesh. ;)

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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jeffp wrote:
if you drop your chain on that puppy(for whatever reason) good luck getting it out with the shielded chainring :)


That's actually a semi-legitimate concern. I'm sure a K-edge chain catcher would be a very smart idea if running a 2x to prevent a chainsuck.

I run a K-Edge and tune my front derailleur (conventional shift Ultegra) as needed. Froome's bike has two separate custom 3D printed chain catchers. The weight to piece-of-mind ratio there seems good.

-------------------
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Last edited by: Timtek: Sep 15, 16 7:36
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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What a momentous day in the world of high end triath-gear! Omni? What's Omni -- just an orthodontist-level expensive, poorly wrought, bastardized road bike with water bottles strapped all over it, including one on the top tube, right in front of the seat post. With repulsive orange paint. And rim brakes! The future is here now -- I am moving up my TriRig bankruptcy projection to 15 months.

Let's start with looks...I mean, talk about polarizing. When I first woke up this morning, I thought it was awful. Not quite Omni bad, but still, hall of fame hideous. But in just a couple hours, it has grown on me measurably. The videos with a rider on board make it appear like a combination of a motorcycle and a rocket ship. And I love love love the red and black color scheme -- my wardrobe will match perfectly right out of the box. Rolling around with matchy matchy kit is critical for anal retentive, vain, narcissistic triathletes, of course. Aside from that, I don't love the massive logo.

They did a decent job on fit. It will fit me and it will fit me quite well. At my size, it's 1cm longer than Omni for the same stack. Sits right on top of the small Shiv TT for me. Not P4 or Canyon good, but fine nonetheless.

The integration is outstanding. I love the the Barfly mount for the Garmin -- a small need that Salazar has long pretended does not exist. If I don't have that Ventum reservoir with one of these new bikes, I do need a bottle on the down tube, at least for training, and Andean provides that. I like all the room under the bottom bracket. Could totally hide a motor in there, and Weiss probably will. /pink ?

I am a fan of many of the other small but important forward-leaning decisions they made. I love 1x. I like the thru axles...I have them on all my non-road bikes -- the stiffness provided by them is palpable. And so many places to store my Silca wrenches. Shit, might as well carry along the whole set, as well as the new torque wrench jawn from Kickstarter.

But still, I refuse to believe that it's fast...yet. Does anyone actually buy the aero data that Diamondback released the first time around with the Serios? I sure as shit don't. 30 grams slower than a P5? Haha. Okay. They issued one of the less believable charts published by any manufacturer in recent history:


They also sounded like complete morons playing up that 15 degrees of yaw thing, which of course they now acknowledge is not at all important. So my default assumption, right now, is that this bike is very slow. And I won't assume otherwise until I see reputable third party data.

Aside from that, the fact that they designed the frame around a specific set of wheels is genius. Why hasn't anyone done this before? Somebody should work with Flo so those guys don't end up in Chapter 11 with Nick. Flo wheels are exceptional aside from the completely unusable, China carbon brake tracks. But rim braking is so 2015.

Moving on to price...oh wow is this embarrassing for TriRig, Dimond, and Ventum -- the other direct-to-consumer peddlers in this space. I'm all for it, because there are very few bikes on the market that can compete at Andean's price thresholds, especially for those spec lists. I wish they were offering just the frame module, or frame module sans bar, because I like to spec my own builds, but probably I'm a minority here...triathletes are sheep. Regardless, for around the cost of a Dimond or Ventum One frameset, and just a touch more than an Omni, I can get an Ultegra Di2 build with HED Jet wheels (~$6k). That is outstanding, like better than Felt outstanding. Couple this with the fact that I can secure this for a solid discount through a personal association, and I'll be picking one up to test, and, if slow, to dump in the classifieds onto some unsuspecting lemming at a small profit for my troubles. Surely this bicycle is a big loss leader -- what kind of financial resources do these guys have? I'm too lazy to research it. But I hope those grad students were working pro bono.

I don't agree with BryanD that it will be a nightmare in crosswinds. It doesn't look all that much worse to me than an IA. Besides that, I've never ridden a bike I didn't simply get used to in crosswinds, even adapting to deep dish wheels that totally suck. I don't understand the wind weenie thing. Nobody who rides a race setup outdoors all the time is getting blown into the lava rocks.

Unfortunately, I will have to add a bar...probably my Alpha C (*shudder*). I dislike this HED one. I hate how companies come out with these groundbreaking UCI illegal designs and then slap a UCI legal bar on there. Maybe it's just not good bang for buck aerodynamically, or they are just really hard to design, or both -- but holy hell if that Speed Concept base bar isn't one beautiful and sturdy piece of kit.

One major negative for the Andean is ease of travel. This is going to be a huge pain in the ass to fly around with. You for sure have to take the rotors off the wheels (a problem for all disc brake wheels, of course). Will it fit in my hen house? A small probably will since it looks to be a standard fork under there, but if not, that might be a deal breaker. Or I might just have to pull a slowman and have two bicycles -- one not-so-super one for air travel, and one exceptionally super/integrated one for travel by car. But that makes no sense, because nearly every race that matters, I need to fly to. But it ships with a layer of safety foam! Sounds legit.

Anyways, I have to agree with rappstar, I don't get the association with Weiss. A doper once a doper always, at least in the mind of the (non-doping) athletes who will be considering this bicycle. Diamondback is already a bizarre brand in this space, and to me it's an exceptionally odd choice to try to make inroads with this niche through the face of one of more hated athletes in the sport. Why couldn't they have just gone with Matt Russell? Sure, that guy is super boring, but at least he seems squeaky clean. Weiss is a asshole and a cheat -- though I repeat myself.

Speaking of the brand, that might be one of the biggest uphill battles this bike faces. The thing is sold at Dick's for crying out loud -- it's a bit of a laughing stock. Novara probably has as much legitimacy in this space. They need to get a grad school team on the consumer branding research, because they neglected that entire piece. Why not release this thing as a fighter brand? Or try for a rebrand of some sort.

Also agree with Jordan...surely they ran this by WTC? The rules very clearly state that new or prototype equipment must get some sort of special approval.

Anyways, looking forward to my testing. When can we order?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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PubliusValerius wrote:

I don't agree with BryanD that it will be a nightmare in crosswinds. It doesn't look all that much worse to me than an IA. Besides that, I've never ridden a bike I didn't simply get used to in crosswinds, even adapting to deep dish wheels that totally suck. I don't understand the wind weenie thing. Nobody who rides a race setup outdoors all the time is getting blown into the lava rocks.

I never said this....

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd*
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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I look forward to your responses about the new bikes more than the bikes themselves.

2019 T-Rex Tri Series
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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Also, Flo wheels are made in Taiwan...not China

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
PubliusValerius wrote:

I don't agree with BryanD that it will be a nightmare in crosswinds. It doesn't look all that much worse to me than an IA. Besides that, I've never ridden a bike I didn't simply get used to in crosswinds, even adapting to deep dish wheels that totally suck. I don't understand the wind weenie thing. Nobody who rides a race setup outdoors all the time is getting blown into the lava rocks.

I never said this....

I think we get confused from time to time. :)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
They have a chart on the site now, so there has been a little bit of bleaching at least

thank you for that one! So aero wise it looks like it's combo of a P5 and SC/IA right? Good low yaw angle drag of the P5 and good "high" yaw angle drag of the Trek and Felt, right?

I love the outside the box thinking. Would like them (or someone) to test all these 4-5 main superbikes in the same windtunnel to get apples to apples comparison.

Since I'm not calibrated to CDA, what's my conversion to grams? I see the P5 at 0* listed at 600g in most plots, the Andean at ~630ish grams in their plot, so curious how the position swaps, but maybe that's due to speeds used in their respective tests?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Also, Flo wheels are made in Taiwan...not China


You missed the point. They are as cheap and awful as China carbon clincher brake tracks -- the one's you order off Ebay for $180 per rim -- and they seem to scratch up just as easily.

ETA: Maybe a little picture game will help you with this. Guess which one I bought from carbon-cycle or one of those crappy open mold profiteers, and guess which one is Flo.


Last edited by: PubliusValerius: Sep 15, 16 8:38
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [swimfan] [ In reply to ]
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swimfan wrote:
Thrash can and wallet integrations are well thought. I would like to see an integrated urine container.


There is an internally routed catheter tube, it empties right above the disc brake rotor to keep it cool considering all of the hard braking you do during a race.

It is a great idea because if you are scared enough that you feel you need disc brakes you also probably wet yourself right at the moment when you grab a handful of brake lever. Diamondback really did their homework on rider personas.
Last edited by: endosch2: Sep 15, 16 8:12
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [STJay] [ In reply to ]
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STJay wrote:
Now you know what I was vaguely referring to when you pinged me about disc brakes last week, Jordan. Been sitting on this for exactly one year. More intel (drag data, design stuff, quotes from the engineers, amazing photos) can be found on the internet now for those interested in that kind of stuff.

And yeah, this bike is way out there... I applaud the thinking and application. And the sheer chance-taking on Diamondback's part.

Jay, I saw the bike-only data in your article...is there any "rider-on" data shown yet? As you might remember from my foray into the Win Tunnel last year, absolute differences in bike-only measurements can go down fairly dramatically once a rider is on board. According to the pics and "white paper", they've done a lot of analysis/testing with rider models, so one would think that data is available.

Speaking of rider-on data...I'm curious about what, if any, drag effects there are from the front wheel naturally "sweeping" in front of the downtube/"chin fairing" cutout area while the rider pedals. That's something that won't be captured in a wind tunnel test where the bike is rigidly mounted to the balance...it's really something that could only be captured at a facility like ERO, or by someone doing careful field testing (VE, or otherwise). IIRC, I think at one time Gerard Vroomen mentioned that this effect was one of the things they learned with the Barrachi project bike...and it wasn't a good thing.

Other than that, it's a pretty wild offering. Fairing the chainring is something I've wondered about for a while as well...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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PubliusValerius wrote:
**TL:DR**


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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:

Speaking of rider-on data...I'm curious about what, if any, drag effects there are from the front wheel naturally "sweeping" in front of the downtube/"chin fairing" cutout area while the rider pedals. That's something that won't be captured in a wind tunnel test where the bike is rigidly mounted to the balance...it's really something that could only be captured at a facility like ERO, or by someone doing careful field testing (VE, or otherwise). IIRC, I think at one time Gerard Vroomen mentioned that this effect was one of the things they learned with the Barrachi project bike...and it wasn't a good thing.

Other than that, it's a pretty wild offering. Fairing the chainring is something I've wondered about for a while as well...

Maybe Ventum is on to something?

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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is there any "rider-on" data shown yet?


Tom,

Remember the Trimble - http://www.bikehugger.com/posts/trimble-monoque/

I heard at the time that, that bike "tested" well with no rider - makes sense, just looking at it. But when you had the rider aboard, it was worse than open diamond frames!! Perhaps that's why it was short short lived.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [endosch2] [ In reply to ]
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It also beeps in reverse like a trash truck!

Honestly, I think the storage on the down tube and also behind the seat tube should be detachable. That way you can take them off to shake things out and also take them off when/if you don't want them on a ride.

----------------------------------------------------------
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Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
is there any "rider-on" data shown yet?


Tom,

Remember the Trimble - http://www.bikehugger.com/posts/trimble-monoque/

I heard at the time that, that bike "tested" well with no rider - makes sense, just looking at it. But when you had the rider aboard, it was worse than open diamond frames!! Perhaps that's why it was short short lived.

Of course I do...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [STJay] [ In reply to ]
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Oh yeah...your article also mentions that the top end model sports Shimano hydraulic brakes. What levers are they using for that? I haven't seen any hydro TT levers yet from either Shimano OR SRAM.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [ffips] [ In reply to ]
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ffips wrote:
PubliusValerius wrote:

**TL:DR**




Right, because Jay Prasuhn's 11 page screed, riddled with typographical and grammatical errors, was not tl;dr. I read it. It sucked.
Last edited by: PubliusValerius: Sep 15, 16 8:35
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I remember thinking the same... after the fact (and after hours). Will have to query.

Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [ffips] [ In reply to ]
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ffips wrote:
PubliusValerius wrote:

**TL:DR**



I read the entire thing. Long but good I thought. Your reply was equally as good from an entertainment perspective AND without any words - impressive :)


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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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Tl;dr because I hate nested quotes.

And that applause is non-pink. I love your response!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Oh yeah...your article also mentions that the top end model sports Shimano hydraulic brakes. What levers are they using for that? I haven't seen any hydro TT levers yet from either Shimano OR SRAM.

Articles about the new Dura Ace have briefly mentioned hydro TT levers. Shimano also included hydro TT levers on the new Dura Ace website, but had no information about them.

Magura is supposed to have flat mount road disc brakes this year. They have had a hydro TT lever for a few years now.

Haven't heard anything about SRAM.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [kenpetruzzelli] [ In reply to ]
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I remember reading that about DA as well. Someone really needs to come up with a hydraulic junction and a third brake lever for Magura's rim brakes :)
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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This is great, I'm just glad to see people making something different for us minions to try.

****To me*** this is a bold new bike, and I'm glad to see someone out there taking a risk.

Time will tell how aero/practical all this is

+1 Weiss is an @ hole, go find someone else to launch a bike with

Also, why wasn't this at eurobike?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
Beyond that, I think it's at least an intriguing thought experiment. Would be nice if they'd picked another athlete to work with, though. At the very least, I would think they'd want an athlete who has at least some credibility. When you have a design that is that crazy, convincing people to even give you a chance is a huge, huge obstacle. And I don't see Weiss helping them very much in that regard.

I couldn't agree with you more on this Jordan. Also have to wonder how a bike like this will fair in the Kona cross winds. Weiss has to be one of the bigger pros in racing so he's not even a good test dummy in that sense. Imagine a smaller female like Magali or Rinny?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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This bike looks amazing. I am loving where these designs are going. I hope that frame will come in white!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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I don't give a fock about the aero data on this thing! give me one in matte black and where's the erection integration while riding??!! I'll just need a little wookie doll to strapon my back while riding too.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [1xatbandcamp] [ In reply to ]
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1xatbandcamp wrote:
I don't give a fock about the aero data on this thing! give me one in matte black and where's the erection integration while riding??!! I'll just need a little wookie doll to strapon my back while riding too.

Here I am!

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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I'm curious about the other bikes Dan teased in the front page article!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [1xatbandcamp] [ In reply to ]
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If this had rim brakes I'd get one for lols. NOT A JOKE DIAMONDBACK.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
Anyway the DB reminds me of an advanced Trimble.

Reminds me more of this LOOK:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/...cbd07b62a7efe84b.jpg
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
desert dude wrote:
Anyway the DB reminds me of an advanced Trimble.


Reminds me more of this LOOK:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/...cbd07b62a7efe84b.jpg

I am excited about the return of these types of bikes. About time!!!
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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johnnybefit wrote:
1xatbandcamp wrote:
I don't give a fock about the aero data on this thing! give me one in matte black and where's the erection integration while riding??!! I'll just need a little wookie doll to strapon my back while riding too.


Here I am!


Just add the Giro Aerohead helmet and you can have the first Star Wars Tri bike! http://www.giro.com/us_en/aerohead/



Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Sep 15, 16 10:25
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for your scintillating input. Remembering again why I don't post here & engage with you all.

Jay Prasuhn
Marketing Specialist, American Bicycle Group (Quintana Roo//Litespeed//Obed)
twitter.com/jayprasuhn

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [STJay] [ In reply to ]
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Relax...I was just giving you a hard time. Thanks for your contribution.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Can somebody with some photoshop skills replace the logos with Ducati ones? Sure looks alike.



----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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PubliusValerius wrote:
BryanD wrote:
Also, Flo wheels are made in Taiwan...not China


You missed the point. They are as cheap and awful as China carbon clincher brake tracks -- the one's you order off Ebay for $180 per rim -- and they seem to scratch up just as easily.

ETA: Maybe a little picture game will help you with this. Guess which one I bought from carbon-cycle or one of those crappy open mold profiteers, and guess which one is Flo.



Why you continue to bash our wheels without data to back it up is beyond me. Resin, wall thickness, layup etc. is what matter with brake tracks. Have you done a comparative resin study, or sectioned both rims to study wall thickness or the layups?


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
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Have you?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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BBLOEHR wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.

I would assume this bike is actually MORE STABLE coming down from Hawi in crosswinds. The problem in crosswinds is when your front end with not much weight gets blow away from you with not much weight under your hands, and with the massive fairing you would actually have a "counterbalance" surface for your entire bike to stay on course. It's why a disk in the rear is more stable with deep dish in the front than with only an 808 or equivalent.

There are very few winds that will take a riders rear end and lift the bike and rear end of the rider up off the pavement, so the rear is actually a massive sail to keep you on track (perhaps Rapp can explain this better)
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't a disc provide stability due to it being close to the center of gravity and rotational forces? That wouldn't apply to this bikes front fairing.


devashish_paul wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.

I would assume this bike is actually MORE STABLE coming down from Hawi in crosswinds. The problem in crosswinds is when your front end with not much weight gets blow away from you with not much weight under your hands, and with the massive fairing you would actually have a "counterbalance" surface for your entire bike to stay on course. It's why a disk in the rear is more stable with deep dish in the front than with only an 808 or equivalent.

There are very few winds that will take a riders rear end and lift the bike and rear end of the rider up off the pavement, so the rear is actually a massive sail to keep you on track (perhaps Rapp can explain this better)

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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PubliusValerius wrote:
Have you?

I know what goes into our products, and it's certainly not what's coming out of every factory in China.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [STJay] [ In reply to ]
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"One Line Robert"
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.


I would assume this bike is actually MORE STABLE coming down from Hawi in crosswinds. The problem in crosswinds is when your front end with not much weight gets blow away from you with not much weight under your hands, and with the massive fairing you would actually have a "counterbalance" surface for your entire bike to stay on course. It's why a disk in the rear is more stable with deep dish in the front than with only an 808 or equivalent.

There are very few winds that will take a riders rear end and lift the bike and rear end of the rider up off the pavement, so the rear is actually a massive sail to keep you on track (perhaps Rapp can explain this better)

Kinda like the downforce of a rear wing on a car? Either way I am in love with this bike.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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You can now reserve on one there website. Maybe i should check the cc limit first.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
Quote:
They sounded like you were riding a big base drum.


You say that like it's a bad thing ;-)

Not at all, it was awesome!

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting theory.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan: I believe the reason a disc makes a bike more stable is that it moves the center of pressure rearward.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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I would wait....you have no idea what Cervelo or Specialized or Cannondale is coming out with!

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
Bryan: I believe the reason a disc makes a bike more stable is that it moves the center of pressure rearward.

Yes and I believe the entire "sail" attached to the rear axle and the contact patch on the ground underneath it moves it all backwards. Even though the downtube fairing looks like it is close to the front wheel, it is really attached to and should affect mainly the rear wheel, so how it affects bike handling "should" apply to forces on the rear wheel directly and only very in directly to the front wheel (the only connection to front wheel is how rigid you body is between the saddle and your elbows, because on the bike itself, that down tube fairing should have zero connection to the front wheel given the presence of a rotating headset.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
Interesting theory.

Not just a theory. Matt Weaver described this effect and how he capitalized upon it when building his 'Cutting Edge' human powered vehicle (or 'speedbike', as he likes to call them). See his article in the September/December 1991 issue of Cycling Science.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Was the typo in the thread title intentional?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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no. oops. let me fix that

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [swimfan] [ In reply to ]
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swimfan wrote:
Thrash can and wallet integrations are well thought. I would like to see an integrated urine container.

Scott had one way back in '14. Everyone just thought that was Kienle's descent tuck.



ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Same here. this bike brings us back to the day when tri industry was trying all sorts of crazy stuff. I think of my old Trimble Aero TT bike, it had an internal storage space and looked crazy back in early 1990's.

I love the new look of this DB and am excited about this new design. I usually ride older technology because 8 yr old 'top of the line' bikes don't give up much at all to present design. 99 % were versions of the original Aluminum Cervelo P3's. However, I do applaud the new beam bikes and Lotus inspired designs.

Great job DB on breaking the mold and trying something new. Triathlon has always been a platform for new ideas and designs and I like to see people pushing the envelope.




BBLOEHR wrote:
I am actually excited about tri bike design again, the first fully and i mean fully integrated tri bike. You could ever store a beer for the post ride party.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like a fat hippo..absolutely disgusting.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
no. oops. let me fix that

Too bad, I thought it was brilliant. Instead, I guess it was merely Freudian.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [tallswimmer] [ In reply to ]
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Ha! This was my bike that I eventually sold.

Just saw this pic that looks at old to me and looks similar to the lines of the new DB.





tallswimmer wrote:
desert dude wrote:
I think Trimble bikes (circa 1990 or so) back when the USTS was The Circuit, had an internal bladder and some/a small internal storage options. What's old is new again.


Anyway the DB reminds me of an advanced Trimble. The kids on here will need to google Trimble Bikes


There was one for sale on here a while back.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Classifieds_F2/FS:_1990_Trimble_Aero_Cycles_SN_066_P4455481/

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [trimdc] [ In reply to ]
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Agree.

But at least Cannondale is now stain-free

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:

"Grey paper" ;-)


They have a chart on the site now, so there has been a little bit of bleaching at least

As the kind of person that digitises and saves wind tunnel graphs I took the liberty of overlaying the new data on the original Serios data

Dashed lines are from the Serios release. I normalised the 0deg point for the Serios curves.

I applaud DB for what they've tried to do here. But it's really not looking like there is much benefit at the yaw angles that matter compared to a 4 year old superbike. And I'd really want to see rider-on data for a bike like this.

Additionally - the choice of Hed bars doesn't help the fit range, so the utility of this bike is rather hampered, no matter how much stuff it can carry.

I think putting data from those two different tests on the same chart is a big mistake. Just look at their Serios data from the old test vs. the new - there is about a 90g difference at 0 yaw! Clearly at a minimum the protocols were different and likely a host of other things going on too...

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
See his article in the September/December 1991 issue of Cycling Science.

I'm choosing to believe this was said non-ironically, and is therefore my single favorite statement of this thread.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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CPT Chaos wrote:
Looks like a fat hippo..absolutely disgusting.

I always thought hippos were kinda cute but with some muscle behind them!

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe someone will bring back the Black Hole?

http://bicycledesign.net/2010/03/a-hubless-wheel-from-the-past-the-black-hole/


Also reminds me of some of Ruegamer's work back in the day...


http://www.bike-trend.com/blackbird-bike-concept-time-trial-machine-by-ruegamer-bicycle/


Gotta admit, kinda geeking out over all the new 2-wheeled goodness. I may not be in the market for one now or in the near future, but it reminds of the early to mid-90's when there were a lot of new "aero" designs coming out (some that turned out to be actually aero, others...not so much). Wonder what will still be around in 10-15-20yrs time...
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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tgarson wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
See his article in the September/December 1991 issue of Cycling Science.


I'm choosing to believe this was said non-ironically, and is therefore my single favorite statement of this thread.


x2

Classic Coggan right there.

Edit: Holy hell. I actually found it online. Maybe I should eat my words.
Last edited by: PubliusValerius: Sep 15, 16 13:10
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:

I think putting data from those two different tests on the same chart is a big mistake. Just look at their Serios data from the old test vs. the new - there is about a 90g difference at 0 yaw! Clearly at a minimum the protocols were different and likely a host of other things going on too...

I wasn't thrilled by the disparity and thought about whether it was worth doing.
Obviously I decided it was ;)
Felt that giving a bit of visual context to the 'much faster than Serios' was worthwhile. In the absence of a proper white paper with full scale mannequin testing compared to existing bikes we have to rely on inference and rudimentary comparisons.
That they talk so much about their SLA models and process but don't provide real comparative data is a bit suspicious.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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PubliusValerius wrote:
tgarson wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
See his article in the September/December 1991 issue of Cycling Science.


I'm choosing to believe this was said non-ironically, and is therefore my single favorite statement of this thread.


x2

Classic Coggan right there.

Edit: Holy hell. I actually found it online. Maybe I should eat my words.

Yes, because unless something can be found online, it doesn't exist.


Friggin' millennials...
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Andrew Coggan wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
Interesting theory.


Not just a theory. Matt Weaver described this effect and how he capitalized upon it when building his 'Cutting Edge' human powered vehicle (or 'speedbike', as he likes to call them). See his article in the September/December 1991 issue of Cycling Science.

So I read through that... where would the ideal center of pressure be for TT purposes?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.


I would assume this bike is actually MORE STABLE coming down from Hawi in crosswinds. The problem in crosswinds is when your front end with not much weight gets blow away from you with not much weight under your hands, and with the massive fairing you would actually have a "counterbalance" surface for your entire bike to stay on course. It's why a disk in the rear is more stable with deep dish in the front than with only an 808 or equivalent.

There are very few winds that will take a riders rear end and lift the bike and rear end of the rider up off the pavement, so the rear is actually a massive sail to keep you on track (perhaps Rapp can explain this better)

If that's the case, then why aren't rear discs MANDATORY in Kona, as opposed to banned? ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [wbattaile] [ In reply to ]
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As to the reply to at what point the lower area becomes a fairing. If it is a useful storage or structure of the bike its not a fairing. I like this design look at the amount of fit adjustments available, I should be able to precisely tune it to the athletes fit coordinates. Good job Diamondback

Robert Driskell
Certified Master Body Geometry fit Technician
Certified Master Retul Fit Technician
Zipp Service Course Specialist
Bikes Plus Pensacola Florida
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet...here's a data point from the intro video showing Weiss in the San Diego LSWT tunnel:



Considering that CdA typically drops at yaw with a rider on board in a good aero position (plus the bike-only data shown so far has the drag minimum at 15d), AND the position shown in the video (rider looking straight down), I hate to say that's not overly impressive...

Edit: fixed the tunnel name. Plus, want to point out the raw data shown includes fixture drag, so subtract ~.005 for that.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Sep 16, 16 7:47
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [STJay] [ In reply to ]
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STJay wrote:
Thanks for your scintillating input. Remembering again why I don't post here & engage with you all.

That's a shame. Pubes can be aggravating, but one can find a point beneath the sarcasm.

Dan makes some of the same points here; albeit in a more polite manner:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/..._s_Andean_j6011.html

Stick around, contribute. I'm a subscriber and suspect there are a few others here as well.

Scott
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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My initial thought looking at this thing is that it will be horrible at doing anything other than going in a straight line on a flat road.

I hope that I'm wrong, but my eye tells me that any gains you make based on aerodynamics could be quickly lost by terrible handling and climbing.

Time will tell, I guess.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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I love that you just called him Pubes...I've been trying that one out myself. Good stuff!

I always enjoy his posts. ST Rookie of the Year 2016.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, maybe the guys making the rules are clueless!!!
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Good catch.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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MI_Mumps wrote:
ST Rookie of the Year 2016.

Huh? He's been a member since 2012...?

tweets.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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MI_Mumps wrote:
I love that you just called him Pubes...I've been trying that one out myself. Good stuff!

I always enjoy his posts. ST Rookie of the Year 2016.

I'm LOL'ing at Pubes. Will never not refer to him as that from this moment forward.


float , hammer , and jog

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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [siegfried08] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe, but not posting like this. Never heard of him or Romulus Magnus before this summer. Using baseball rules I think he counts as a rookie.

In my reality at least.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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davews09 wrote:
That would be the biggest fail imaginable. Highly doubt a legitimate company of scale made the same mistake as some pro triathlete tinkerer working out of his garage.

Don't sell TJ short. The story of his front end system being banned is perhaps more illustrative than it might seem. I'm sure there are multiple sides to the story, but he very much did check it out in advance. He had approval, but then that approval was revoked just prior to race day in Kona. I don't want to re-hash that, but I have some firsthand experience that echoes the confusion that TJ saw. This process *can be* way less straightforward than you might think...

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
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Agree, get past the A-holes that proclaim to know it all. ST has quite a few misogynist pricks, but they also have a few genuine, great contributors that don't try to impress with wit and derogatory comments in every freakin thread.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:
My initial thought looking at this thing is that it will be horrible at doing anything other than going in a straight line on a flat road.

I hope that I'm wrong, but my eye tells me that any gains you make based on aerodynamics could be quickly lost by terrible handling and climbing.

Time will tell, I guess.

Try this thought experiment.

Take its image and draw a double diamond frame inside all that carbon. Now photoshop out all the extra carbon. Now look at the following measurements: Stack-reach, bottom bracket drop, front center, head tube length, head tube angle, seat angle fork rake, trail, rear center. Imagine the carbon does not exist and all these measurements will tell you more or less how the bike handles. All the carbon filling in the space around the traditional double diamond frame will have far less impact on the handling than all of these measurements. They will be the starting point. There should be zero impact on how this bike climbs in the sense it won't climb any worse than any tri bike of the exact same weight. Steep or slack seat post should not affect climbing.

So basically....handling and climbing should be pretty well the same as any tri bike with the same measuremnets.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
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Murphy'sLaw wrote:
MI_Mumps wrote:
I love that you just called him Pubes...I've been trying that one out myself. Good stuff!

I always enjoy his posts. ST Rookie of the Year 2016.


I'm LOL'ing at Pubes. Will never not refer to him as that from this moment forward.

I think the name will catch on.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Page 7 already, guess I'm pretty late for the party...

Definitely looks....weird. But I'd love to test ride it for a week.

Matt
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [gabbiev] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah. I want a wetsuit storage compartment so that I do not have to leave my overly priced wetsuit in transition. Should be able to fill all of that triangle no problem.
This 'thing' ain't a bike. Way too fugly in my opinion. Will never buy it. I think some constraints (uci rules here) are always good for engineers, it forces them to be more creative to find solutions.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [frenchieTT] [ In reply to ]
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frenchieTT wrote:
Yeah. I want a wetsuit storage compartment so that I do not have to leave my overly priced wetsuit in transition. Should be able to fill all of that triangle no problem.
This 'thing' ain't a bike. Way too fugly in my opinion. Will never buy it. I think some constraints (uci rules here) are always good for engineers, it forces them to be more creative to find solutions.


C'mon...get with the program boys!

The extra storage is so that Weiss can bring along his blood bags.

What a way to introduce your fast bike...."hey look boys...look how fast this bike goes when ridden by a blood doper!"
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Darren325] [ In reply to ]
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Oups. I forgot about the blood bags. What about the urine bag storage with clean samples for post race resting?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet...here's a data point from the intro video showing Weiss in the A2 tunnel:



Considering that CdA typically drops at yaw with a rider on board in a good aero position (plus the bike-only data shown so far has the drag minimum at 15d), AND the position shown in the video (rider looking straight down), I hate to say that's not overly impressive...

That's an awful CdA, especially when you consider how head down he is.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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That's also not A2...
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [aka_finto] [ In reply to ]
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aka_finto wrote:
That's also not A2...

So? I don't care what tunnel it's in, it's a bad number.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I really don`t care what a bike or piece of equipment looks like - if there is solid data to suggest it will make me faster then I will ride it (I need all the extra speed I can get).

What I really like about the Andean is the impression that there is some real engineering behind the design. Although the results have yet to be proven, these guys seem to have taken the right steps and have taken a bit of a risk with the result. I know I may get stoned to death for this but nothing annoys me more than the idea of a cut and paste shop and a couple of CAD jockeys producing something in China or elsewhere (with lots of generic bits and pieces) and spinning stories about laminar flow and boundry layers with minimal data to back it up....and I am not talking about the OMNI BTW.

Other peoples approach to selecting a bike will of course be different and they are entitled to spend their money as they please but when I lay down my hard earned cash I`d like to think that it`s paying for some technological development and not just mega markup.

At this point without data on the Andean my gut is telling me this thing has got to be heavy and that turns me off a little. If it is relatively heavy, at what point does aero stop trumping weight assuming real world racing conditions?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Behan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hell, you'll buy it anyway. Get your P5 on the TriTalk classified's in due course ;-)

29 years and counting
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Andrew Coggan wrote:
PubliusValerius wrote:
tgarson wrote:
Andrew Coggan wrote:
See his article in the September/December 1991 issue of Cycling Science.


I'm choosing to believe this was said non-ironically, and is therefore my single favorite statement of this thread.


x2

Classic Coggan right there.

Edit: Holy hell. I actually found it online. Maybe I should eat my words.


Yes, because unless something can be found online, it doesn't exist.


Friggin' millennials...


(bowing) this thread is getting better and better. thank you
Last edited by: dsmallwood: Sep 16, 16 7:18
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tom A. wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.


I would assume this bike is actually MORE STABLE coming down from Hawi in crosswinds. The problem in crosswinds is when your front end with not much weight gets blow away from you with not much weight under your hands, and with the massive fairing you would actually have a "counterbalance" surface for your entire bike to stay on course. It's why a disk in the rear is more stable with deep dish in the front than with only an 808 or equivalent.

There are very few winds that will take a riders rear end and lift the bike and rear end of the rider up off the pavement, so the rear is actually a massive sail to keep you on track (perhaps Rapp can explain this better)


If that's the case, then why aren't rear discs MANDATORY in Kona, as opposed to banned? ;-)

OK OK OK....this entire topic ended up bugging me over the day tomorrow. I always feel that engineers do themselves the biggest disservice by trying to explain things with technical terms and equations and greek alphabets. I like how the economist magazine explains science and engineering problems. No numbers, no technical words, so while I MAY be wrong below I don't think I am.

Engineers use this thing call "free body diagrams" to show how an object reacts to forces. Basically they draw a dot or line and then the draw all these imaginary arrows all over the object with some numbers to denote the scale of those forces to try to figure out how the body moves. So let's try this. Imagine a bike rolling along with the rider on top and suddenly a big gust of wind comes from the right. The front wheel would "turn left" since there is little weight on top of the leading edge of the wheel to hold it on track. This would make the rider on top want to "fall right". But at the same point imagine his entire body and rear wheel and frame also being pushed by another arrow while he is "wanting to fall right". Since the rear wheel is stick to the ground and won't easily change direction as he's feeling like "falling right" that imaginary arrow is pushing the rear wheel, frame and body to "fall left". If you just placed a sale upright in that same wind, it would fall over to the left. If you placed a bike frame on a stand with no front wheel without motion it would want to "fall left". So now you have one small force on the front wheel wanting to make you "fall right" but a much more massive force on the rear wheel wanting to make you "fall left". On top of this is your semi rigid body connecting the two sets of counter acting forces. On top of this the gyroscopic effect of both wheel is wanting to keep you "going straight". Your straight line momentum of your body + bike is always wanting to keep you going straight.

This is why when you are in Kona you look up the road for the dip in the terrain beside the road and you know that the wind there will suddenly be higher and will "hit you". You can see where it will be and just before you go into it, you "lean into it" to use a subset of the gravitational force (an imagary arrow pointing into the direction of the wind) counter act the wind force (those 2 arrows hitting the front and rear wheels).

Tom A and others did I get this all correct? It's been 32 years since I was in 2nd year mechanics and 31 years since 3rd year fluids....since then I have been dealing with electrons or dealing with the psychology of how to make people part with their money and sign for $$$ for products transmitting said electrons.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here is my take - I posted this in the bashing forum too.

In the case of a mass produced brand like Diamondback who is trying to get into tri (just as it is losing participants) they are throwing something out there for the hardos to squawk over but it probably serves a dual purpose to make their lower end more conventional bikes seem like the have a place in the tri world.

You may not want to buy their super bike but at least the brand is thought of as a tri bike.

I dont think they were previously getting any traction and this new bike at least will make the informed crowd not want to talk down about the brand.

One of the key tactics for bike companies has always been to have bikes that appeal to the enthusiasts because they know these people are the go-tos for all noobs getting into the sport.

So with that in mind Diamondback has done a good thing.

Too bad its parent company is nearly bankrupt for about the 10th time in history. They have laid off almost their entire sales organization and supposedly they are so cash poor they cant get the bikes they have ordered for pre-season.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok, as a mechanical engineer BS/MS, I'm having trouble following the rather complex FBD. However, to give you (Paul) credit, there are a lot of forces going on in this case, and it is no easy task to explain in simple terms.

I would like to provide some personal experience as evidence to support your point. Back in early 1990's I was fortunate to have owned a Trimble Aero TT. We purchased it from James Trimble himself in his little shop in MA.

I've raced and trained on this bike for years and still have had my fastest TT's times on it (may have to do with being 25 yrs younger). In riding it with a disc in gusty wind conditions, it did not blow me around noticeably (I was 145-150 lbs then).

I now ride a Look 596, typical tri bike design with a 90 mm front wheel. Riding in wind or passed trucks, this 90 mm front wheel wants to through me off the bike and into the ditch if I'm not ready.

All of my experience will tell me that the Andean will handle and climb like a traditional bike. The biggest factor in wind will be your selection of what rim depth to ride in the front.

Below is the actual bike I am talking about: That rig had crazy cross sectional area and handled similar to a traditional bike. Not nearly as extreme as your 'eye' would suggest. And that is my point. People can't just 'look' at a bicycle design and draw conclusions on handling.



devashish_paul wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.


I would assume this bike is actually MORE STABLE coming down from Hawi in crosswinds. The problem in crosswinds is when your front end with not much weight gets blow away from you with not much weight under your hands, and with the massive fairing you would actually have a "counterbalance" surface for your entire bike to stay on course. It's why a disk in the rear is more stable with deep dish in the front than with only an 808 or equivalent.

There are very few winds that will take a riders rear end and lift the bike and rear end of the rider up off the pavement, so the rear is actually a massive sail to keep you on track (perhaps Rapp can explain this better)


If that's the case, then why aren't rear discs MANDATORY in Kona, as opposed to banned? ;-)


OK OK OK....this entire topic ended up bugging me over the day tomorrow. I always feel that engineers do themselves the biggest disservice by trying to explain things with technical terms and equations and greek alphabets. I like how the economist magazine explains science and engineering problems. No numbers, no technical words, so while I MAY be wrong below I don't think I am.

Engineers use this thing call "free body diagrams" to show how an object reacts to forces. Basically they draw a dot or line and then the draw all these imaginary arrows all over the object with some numbers to denote the scale of those forces to try to figure out how the body moves. So let's try this. Imagine a bike rolling along with the rider on top and suddenly a big gust of wind comes from the right. The front wheel would "turn left" since there is little weight on top of the leading edge of the wheel to hold it on track. This would make the rider on top want to "fall right". But at the same point imagine his entire body and rear wheel and frame also being pushed by another arrow while he is "wanting to fall right". Since the rear wheel is stick to the ground and won't easily change direction as he's feeling like "falling right" that imaginary arrow is pushing the rear wheel, frame and body to "fall left". If you just placed a sale upright in that same wind, it would fall over to the left. If you placed a bike frame on a stand with no front wheel without motion it would want to "fall left". So now you have one small force on the front wheel wanting to make you "fall right" but a much more massive force on the rear wheel wanting to make you "fall left". On top of this is your semi rigid body connecting the two sets of counter acting forces. On top of this the gyroscopic effect of both wheel is wanting to keep you "going straight". Your straight line momentum of your body + bike is always wanting to keep you going straight.

This is why when you are in Kona you look up the road for the dip in the terrain beside the road and you know that the wind there will suddenly be higher and will "hit you". You can see where it will be and just before you go into it, you "lean into it" to use a subset of the gravitational force (an imagary arrow pointing into the direction of the wind) counter act the wind force (those 2 arrows hitting the front and rear wheels).

Tom A and others did I get this all correct? It's been 32 years since I was in 2nd year mechanics and 31 years since 3rd year fluids....since then I have been dealing with electrons or dealing with the psychology of how to make people part with their money and sign for $$$ for products transmitting said electrons.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
i love crazy designs, and am really happy to see them coming back from their 90s heyday after years of UCI-imposed boredom.
but:

how do you go over a speed bump on this bike?

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe I missed this, but a question:

The BTA bottle appears to line up nicely with the top tube storage, trash bin, etc. Hopefully, that is a positive for aerodynamics (but lets see some data)

But the bigger issue, if one has to raise the bars more than a few mm, the BTA has to move up too. Then this aero alignment is gone. What then ?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [aka_finto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
aka_finto wrote:
That's also not A2...

Woah...you're right...and I well know that's the San Diego LSWT. Shit, I don't even remember typing A2 on that...I'll correct it.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Trentw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Trentw wrote:
ST has quite a few misogynist pricks

I think you need to look up the word misogyny in the dictionary, because there is nothing misogynistic going on in this thread.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Behan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Behan wrote:
I really don`t care what a bike or piece of equipment looks like - if there is solid data to suggest it will make me faster then I will ride it

You sound like the type of guy who selects women entirely based on personality. Regardless of other attributes, I refuse to ride a busted...bicycle.

Oop, am I being a misogynist now?
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wonder what this beast weighs
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
BBLOEHR wrote:
Bryancd wrote:
This thing might be a handful coming down from Hawi.


could be one downfall, would have to ride it to know.


I would assume this bike is actually MORE STABLE coming down from Hawi in crosswinds. The problem in crosswinds is when your front end with not much weight gets blow away from you with not much weight under your hands, and with the massive fairing you would actually have a "counterbalance" surface for your entire bike to stay on course. It's why a disk in the rear is more stable with deep dish in the front than with only an 808 or equivalent.

There are very few winds that will take a riders rear end and lift the bike and rear end of the rider up off the pavement, so the rear is actually a massive sail to keep you on track (perhaps Rapp can explain this better)


If that's the case, then why aren't rear discs MANDATORY in Kona, as opposed to banned? ;-)


OK OK OK....this entire topic ended up bugging me over the day tomorrow.
I always feel that engineers do themselves the biggest disservice by trying to explain things with technical terms and equations and greek alphabets. I like how the economist magazine explains science and engineering problems. No numbers, no technical words, so while I MAY be wrong below I don't think I am.

Engineers use this thing call "free body diagrams" to show how an object reacts to forces. Basically they draw a dot or line and then the draw all these imaginary arrows all over the object with some numbers to denote the scale of those forces to try to figure out how the body moves. So let's try this. Imagine a bike rolling along with the rider on top and suddenly a big gust of wind comes from the right. The front wheel would "turn left" since there is little weight on top of the leading edge of the wheel to hold it on track. This would make the rider on top want to "fall right". But at the same point imagine his entire body and rear wheel and frame also being pushed by another arrow while he is "wanting to fall right". Since the rear wheel is stick to the ground and won't easily change direction as he's feeling like "falling right" that imaginary arrow is pushing the rear wheel, frame and body to "fall left". If you just placed a sale upright in that same wind, it would fall over to the left. If you placed a bike frame on a stand with no front wheel without motion it would want to "fall left". So now you have one small force on the front wheel wanting to make you "fall right" but a much more massive force on the rear wheel wanting to make you "fall left". On top of this is your semi rigid body connecting the two sets of counter acting forces. On top of this the gyroscopic effect of both wheel is wanting to keep you "going straight". Your straight line momentum of your body + bike is always wanting to keep you going straight.

This is why when you are in Kona you look up the road for the dip in the terrain beside the road and you know that the wind there will suddenly be higher and will "hit you". You can see where it will be and just before you go into it, you "lean into it" to use a subset of the gravitational force (an imagary arrow pointing into the direction of the wind) counter act the wind force (those 2 arrows hitting the front and rear wheels).

Tom A and others did I get this all correct? It's been 32 years since I was in 2nd year mechanics and 31 years since 3rd year fluids....since then I have been dealing with electrons or dealing with the psychology of how to make people part with their money and sign for $$$ for products transmitting said electrons.

Paul, I am impressed, you finally argued yourself into a time-space vortex.

----
@adamwfurlong
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [rmg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rmg wrote:
Wonder what this beast weighs

Are you basing that comment on the post above yours?

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You have to feel somewhat sorry for TriRig at this juncture. They release what should be the most talked about bike for some time and then literally the same week Diamondwhack release frankenbike and dominate every bike forum / website in the world for the foreseeable future.

I think there will be a stalling in tri bike sales now. Hardly anyone will actually want want to spend their own money on the Andean (there really is no hiding place if it turns out to be a monstrous fail) but will be too scared to purchase another bike because the market has suddenly taken such a huge turn in bike design that they'll worry about buying into 'old news' and might want whatever the larger companies bring out next. The Andean thing looks too sci fi, everything else looks old, money stays in wallet.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe, just maybe, I was speaking of comments outside of this thread. It's a big world out there in ST land. Nevertheless, thank you for proving my point.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JayPeeWhy wrote:
You have to feel somewhat sorry for TriRig at this juncture. They release what should be the most talked about bike for some time and then literally the same week Diamondwhack release frankenbike and dominate every bike forum / website in the world for the foreseeable future.

I have had a few moments of feeling sorry for TriRig myself. But then I quickly remember that Nick is a jerk, and I feel warm and mushy inside again. Anyways, there's always Saberz.

JayPeeWhy wrote:
I think there will be a stalling in tri bike sales now. Hardly anyone will actually want want to spend their own money on the Andean (there really is no hiding place if it turns out to be a monstrous fail) but will be too scared to purchase another bike because the market has suddenly taken such a huge turn in bike design that they'll worry about buying into 'old news' and might want whatever the larger companies bring out next. The Andean thing looks too sci fi, everything else looks old, money stays in wallet.

Totally.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [Trentw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Odd place to drop those comments.

What was your point again?

"One Line Robert"
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PubliusValerius wrote:
Anyways, there's always Saberz.

I didn't think that was actually real.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JayPeeWhy wrote:
PubliusValerius wrote:
Anyways, there's always Saberz.


I didn't think that was actually real.

I actually could not believe that it was either, but it is. Take a look for yourself.


Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JayPeeWhy wrote:
I think there will be a stalling in tri bike sales now.

I think this has been the case for some time. Not just a slow in growth but an actual shrinking of the market. I can only speak anecdotally, but I know several large bike shops in my area that do not even stock tri bikes anymore. This probably explains Cervelo's lack of urgency in getting the beam bike out. Why bother rolling it out to a market that does not exist? Realistically, how many of these is Diamondback really going to sell? I cannot recall seeing a Diamondback tribike at any race and do not think this monstrosity is going to somehow break that trend.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1poseur1 wrote:
JayPeeWhy wrote:
I think there will be a stalling in tri bike sales now.


I think this has been the case for some time. Not just a slow in growth but an actual shrinking of the market. I can only speak anecdotally, but I know several large bike shops in my area that do not even stock tri bikes anymore. This probably explains Cervelo's lack of urgency in getting the beam bike out. Why bother rolling it out to a market that does not exist? Realistically, how many of these is Diamondback really going to sell? I cannot recall seeing a Diamondback tribike at any race and do not think this monstrosity is going to somehow break that trend.

No, that is EXACTLY why Cervelo (or name your bike company) should get new designs out. Bring something new to the market to help spur sales. Churning out new colors of the same bikes for 4 years doesn't spur sales. If you want to reinvigorate the market, consumers need to see something new. While the tri market may have plateaued (or even shrunk) that does not mean that there is not a significant business opporutnity to capitalize on.....IF you can bring something new and worthwhile to the market.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

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Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1poseur1 wrote:
JayPeeWhy wrote:
I think there will be a stalling in tri bike sales now.


I think this has been the case for some time. Not just a slow in growth but an actual shrinking of the market. I can only speak anecdotally, but I know several large bike shops in my area that do not even stock tri bikes anymore. This probably explains Cervelo's lack of urgency in getting the beam bike out. Why bother rolling it out to a market that does not exist? Realistically, how many of these is Diamondback really going to sell? I cannot recall seeing a Diamondback tribike at any race and do not think this monstrosity is going to somehow break that trend.

It won't be a beam bike

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [aka_finto] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That bike honestly looks so cool !!!
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PubliusValerius wrote:
Oop, am I being a misogynist now?

Of course not..you`re just being a dickhead.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Behan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Behan wrote:
PubliusValerius wrote:
Oop, am I being a misogynist now?


Of course not..you`re just being a dickhead.

I'm the dickhead, but you're the one resorting to puerile ad hominem attacks. Got it.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [rmg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rmg wrote:
Wonder what this beast weighs

Just over 20.5lbs (9.3Kg) for complete bicycle (mid-range build)

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
PubliusValerius wrote:
Behan wrote:
PubliusValerius wrote:
Oop, am I being a misogynist now?


Of course not..you`re just being a dickhead.


I'm the dickhead, but you're the one resorting to puerile ad hominem attacks. Got it.

Correct on both counts!
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Looks like the bike Batman would ride if he did IM.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
How is the cda compared to a race ready setup of say a P5? Those figures include 2 bottles, food, and tool kit are integrated.

What would be considered a "good" cda for race day configuration?
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [afurlong] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's a funny one. Sorry about that. In my native language the same word is used to denote any day adjacent to "today" (tomorrow and yesterday are the exact same word). The tense in the verb in the sentence then clarifies if you mean yesterday or tomorrow. So yeah, I meant "yesterday" but between being half awake, not having caffeine and with my brain trying to explain physics free body diagrams using simple english, I blew the terminology in simple English to identify "Thur" when today is "Fri". OK back to the thread.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Power13] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Power13 wrote:
1poseur1 wrote:
JayPeeWhy wrote:
I think there will be a stalling in tri bike sales now.


I think this has been the case for some time. Not just a slow in growth but an actual shrinking of the market. I can only speak anecdotally, but I know several large bike shops in my area that do not even stock tri bikes anymore. This probably explains Cervelo's lack of urgency in getting the beam bike out. Why bother rolling it out to a market that does not exist? Realistically, how many of these is Diamondback really going to sell? I cannot recall seeing a Diamondback tribike at any race and do not think this monstrosity is going to somehow break that trend.


No, that is EXACTLY why Cervelo (or name your bike company) should get new designs out. Bring something new to the market to help spur sales. Churning out new colors of the same bikes for 4 years doesn't spur sales. If you want to reinvigorate the market, consumers need to see something new. While the tri market may have plateaued (or even shrunk) that does not mean that there is not a significant business opporutnity to capitalize on.....IF you can bring something new and worthwhile to the market.

Maybe, but again, how large can the market possibly be? To buy a new $10k bike every couple of years you need passion for the sport and massive discretionary income. My gut tells me that we hit peak bike with the last iteration of speed concept/shiv/felt IA/P5. It would be interesting if anyone with actual sales figures can chime in.
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Annual revenues

Enve - $30M
HED - $8M

I ran a simple model based on Nick's disclosure the other day - it indicated lifetime revenues of well over $10M. Seems better than the light saber business. WHO BUYS A $1K LIGHT SABER!?!

Anyways, assume NOPAT of 15-20% for these companies, I dunno. But other words, tiny. There are lots of Executive Challenge participants that profit more than the above two companies combined in any given year.

I don't know why consumption on a per participant basis would change on a long term (annual) basis, but if we are losing absolute participants, which we very well may be, then endemic companies will feel the hurt.

We will need to wait for the next USAT numbers to get a real gauge on the health of the sport and the companies that depend on it.

Diamondback, in particular, should be immune from softness in our sport's growth, considering that the bread and butter for them is crap bikes from Dick's
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [1poseur1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Oh and disc's will be a windfall for all of these companies in the short term, particularly for the wheel companies. Why do you think they are trying so hard to force them down our throats even though they are entirely unnecessary?
Quote Reply
Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Okay, so I am very impressed with DB for coming out with something so unusual in the mundane Tri world. Big credit to them for crossing boundaries.

Having been a "beam-bike" owner/rider since 2009 on a custom Pearson Z1, I am fully aware of the non-double triangle designs. In fact, I talked with TJ before he finalized his Dimond design, and he had already spoken with Graeme in New Zealand about his Z1 (and no, not the Z1-11 design, but the earlier 2008/09 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1z5EvT2bnbM) design that Batistella and he collaborated on, yet Graeme actually made it). Yes, I actually rode my Pearson in 11 Ironman races, including Kona 2013. I built my own seatpost, and found a custom fork that mated up with the headtube. Yada, yada.....okay so I come into this with some idea of out-of-the-norm frames....

I like the Andean for its radical front end and front wheel-to-downtube design. As someone previously mentioned, it looks a lot like the Baracchi, also, looks very very similar to the Ruegamer bike that was previously at Tribe Multisport in AZ. Yes, I know that the Ruegamer didn't actually function, but still the aero design concept was there, (http://www.mountainflyermagazine.com/...e/10/RueSports_6.jpg).

Okay, so here are some points to ponder about the Andean.....

1. Weight. Looks grat, but what is the weight factor for the added CF?
2. Heavy steering head feel. I know that the BTA bottle is great and aero (I run it now on my bike), but still adding mass out front makes for piss-poor steering feel. Now, add in all that "storage" area just behind the stem/forktube..... It's high up above the CG of the bike, it's near the steering fulcrum, thus adding mass behind the torque of the steering. Point is, can't we get rid of mass on the frame and put it on our backs, and just leave the headtube/stem/toptube junction clean and light and smooth?
3. Disc brakes....is there a disc wheel that has a disc rotor on it? Also, the front wheel...what if I want to use a tri-spoke, is there a tri-spoke wheel with a disc rotor on it?
4. Why truncate the trailing edge of the frame junction above the rear wheel and behind the seatpost? Why not just continue it out to a point like the nosecone? And, don't tell me the Kamm tail idea makes any difference on that small of an edge, and when the front half of the bike is already so radical...a 4 inch tall Kamm design isn't going to make a squats bit of difference (let alone that the whole idea of the Kamm is to help with crosswinds, and has nothing to do with 0-to-low yaw flow which is what the Andean seems to be designed around). Again, look at the Ruegamer bike and it's trailing edges. Everything comes to a point to "close-out" air flow and not create eddy's.

I am not knocking the Andean at all....these points I bring up are just simply small things may help to gain .0001% more in a perfect world. Still, I like the Andean and its design. I think the biggest question as of now is just exactly what Rappstar asked... will it be legal to race based on "fairings"?? I know it's different from the Bolide, Dimond, and Omni frames, and IMO (and just IMO) the Bolide, Dimond, and Omni shouldn't be allowed with the REMOVABLE brake covers that act as fairings. Yes, these covers act as fairings and have absolutely "0" (zero) to do with frame's structural design or integrity, or the function of the brakes. Therefore, again IMO, these magnetically attached covers are fairings, ie: the brakes function without the need of the covers (so how are they not considered fairings?). As I read the "rules"....if there is a part of the bike frame that is not permanently attached or moulded as part of the entire frame structure, then it can not be allowed. Same reason as why TJ couldn't race his front aero bottle wind shield hydration contraption (ie: it was a removable water-bottle with a fairing attached to it.) Okay, so where/how do rear wheel aero-jackets fit in....simple....it's part of the wheel, and the rules haven't applied there (yet). Same reason HED got away with the HED3D wheels (a carbon addition to increase wheel profile height, but yet wasn't a permanently attached or moulded in structure.

Hey, I'm just throwing these points out there on this Andean thread.

Personally, I like the Andean. My biggest problem with it is the disc brake set up. If there was a fork with built in calipers, ie: Trek SC, that would be perfect, and do the same thing for the rear inside the chainstays. Now that would have my money on the table right now for an order.

Team Zoot-Texas, and Pickle Juice
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Taugen] [ In reply to ]
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Really good thoughts
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Taugen] [ In reply to ]
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Taugen wrote:

4. Why truncate the trailing edge of the frame junction above the rear wheel and behind the seatpost? Why not just continue it out to a point like the nosecone? And, don't tell me the Kamm tail idea makes any difference on that small of an edge, and when the front half of the bike is already so radical...a 4 inch tall Kamm design isn't going to make a squats bit of difference (let alone that the whole idea of the Kamm is to help with crosswinds, and has nothing to do with 0-to-low yaw flow which is what the Andean seems to be designed around). Again, look at the Ruegamer bike and it's trailing edges. Everything comes to a point to "close-out" air flow and not create eddy's.


I recall Cervelo talking about how the extended seatpost cutout was truncated (i.e. Kamm) on the P5 because it actually made the bike faster with a rider on board, but slower static in the wind tunnel.
Last edited by: davews09: Sep 16, 16 16:13
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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Damn rider/bike interaction.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
Damn rider/bike interaction.

What do you mean? Nick Salazar told me this wasn't important.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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It's important, but only if your post-production wind tunnel results show a clear improvement over your competitors.

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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Are you sure he said those exact words?
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [STJay] [ In reply to ]
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Disc brakes may be more aero at 0 degrees but what about 12, 15, etc yaw angle? I do not believe they have any real data on this yet do they? However, disc brakes offer much better braking power and are safer in wet weather so it would be a pleasant surprise.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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I would be worried about speed bump clearence.
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [swimfan] [ In reply to ]
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Stay tuned, the next version will have a rinse kit built in.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty Cool, I like the on board storage
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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Any word on colors yet?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Red and black. See my updated post on first page.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Sep 18, 16 13:49
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Black goes with everything!

Pricing look pretty good, cheapest price gets Sram X1 set up and training wheels. Would just love to see more wind tunnel data on the Andean with a rider on it vs a P5 or SC.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BBLOEHR] [ In reply to ]
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I like those first two price points, but I suspect the bike will look ridiculous with those wheels and I don't have any disc brake race wheels.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [dhr] [ In reply to ]
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dhr wrote:
I like those first two price points, but I suspect the bike will look ridiculous with those wheels and I don't have any disc brake race wheels.

which little training wheels it will look god awful 100%, i don't have any disk break wheels either, i suspect most of us don't.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
I remember having a conversation with Brad DeVaney (head engineer at QR) about a "MotoGP-style bike" - Brad's background is in motorcycle racing - back in 2007. Same conversation where we talked about moving air away from the drivetrain that eventually morphed into QR's "shift" technology that I think is pretty cool and if another company besides QR were doing it, it'd get a lot more notice. Anyway, I'm actually sort of surprised it took so long...

Beyond that, I think it's at least an intriguing thought experiment. Would be nice if they'd picked another athlete to work with, though. At the very least, I would think they'd want an athlete who has at least some credibility. When you have a design that is that crazy, convincing people to even give you a chance is a huge, huge obstacle. And I don't see Weiss helping them very much in that regard.


As with many things, the devil is in the detail. Cervelo's first bike was a moon shot. The P3 is a Porsche 911 with lotsa development and refinement.


While there's no available wind tunnel data on this bike, I'd hope that it tests at least reasonably well. My calibrated eyeball says it should :-). And of course, the placebo effect would be in full force. Riding that bike would make anyone faster (maybe).

Even if it's not actually great in the wind tunnel A) that's not all this bike is B) it gives lotsa impetus to others to improve on it further

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: First Look: The New Dimondback Andean Bike! [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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desert dude wrote:
I think Trimble bikes (circa 1990 or so) back when the USTS was The Circuit, had an internal bladder and some/a small internal storage options. What's old is new again.

Anyway the DB reminds me of an advanced Trimble. The kids on here will need to google Trimble Bikes


"There is nothing new under the sun, on that which has been forgotten"

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Nope. Do not want.

This thing is going to be horrible to own in the real world.

Hard to cable/hose, heavy, a pig in the wind, terrible up/downhill, poor tyre clearance, poor road clearance, will ride like a jackhammer, packing for travel, recovering a dropped chain will be a nightmare... I could go on.

Then there's the looks. Not for me! The only place this might be nice to ride is in the velodrome - where it's illegal.

My 2c
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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Looks like it already has fat tyres on.
Disc brake housing never needs to be changed.
Go electric if you are worried about running a new gear cable every couple of years.
Cable run has no need to be difficult on this frame and given the huge internal space may be one of the easiest.
My bike has never dropped a chain. Why should this?
Ride is determined as much by layup as geometry, you have no clue until you sit on it.
It may very well be excellent in the wind as it is quite wide.
With quick connects on the brakes and electric, it would be a cinch to pack.
Why would it be terrible downhill? Has it some geometry flaw?
It may not be best uphill, but when is the last time any tri course went up anything over 6% where this thing would fly?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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You've never worked in a shop and had to cater to the lowest common denominator have you?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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lyrrad wrote:
Looks like it already has fat tyres on.
Disc brake housing never needs to be changed.
Go electric if you are worried about running a new gear cable every couple of years.
Cable run has no need to be difficult on this frame and given the huge internal space may be one of the easiest.
My bike has never dropped a chain. Why should this?
Ride is determined as much by layup as geometry, you have no clue until you sit on it.
It may very well be excellent in the wind as it is quite wide.
With quick connects on the brakes and electric, it would be a cinch to pack.
Why would it be terrible downhill? Has it some geometry flaw?
It may not be best uphill, but when is the last time any tri course went up anything over 6% where this thing would fly?

Agreed on all points.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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42x16ss wrote:
Nope. Do not want.

This thing is going to be horrible to own in the real world.

Hard to cable/hose, heavy, a pig in the wind, terrible up/downhill, poor tyre clearance, poor road clearance, will ride like a jackhammer, packing for travel, recovering a dropped chain will be a nightmare... I could go on.

Then there's the looks. Not for me! The only place this might be nice to ride is in the velodrome - where it's illegal.

My 2c

What do you mean hard to cable? The frame is big enough that you can probably walk the cables through, lol.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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42x16ss wrote:
You've never worked in a shop and had to cater to the lowest common denominator have you?

Just looking at the bike I would rather work on that than some of the earlier stupid 3/4 day to assemble Treks.
Tried running new cables on a Felt IA yet? Takes half an hour just to pull the stem and top apart.
Yep, you guess it, I'm in the game.
I would rather work on hydro discs than any dumb aero bike caliper setup.
Who wants to take off chainrings just to adjust the pad centering, and then find they are out again the next time the poor guy rides it.
File down $60 pads so they fit the dumb frame placement and then grind a bit off the arms to clear the frame or stages.
Change pads when the race wheels go in and set them up again.
Have to do a cable overhaul after every couple of months as the gears are changing shit.
C'mon, exactly what on that bike would be hard to work on, or require even half as much maintenance as the current crop of cable twisting nightmares?

Even the lowest common denominator can flip brake connects and unplug a single electrical cable to pack it.
And when they put it together it is all still adjusted perfectly.
It even looks easy to clean.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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TriRig Omegas are pretty damn easy to work on. I agree, however, regarding Treks.

Can you give me an example of "flipping brake connects"? I remember installing Shimano hydro disc brakes on my hardtail back in February and no part of that process seems like it would be easy to undo for travel.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [42x16ss] [ In reply to ]
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Don't worry everyone, there is no need to ride or see the Andean in person. 42x16ss has already determined it to be crap.

He has determined from looking at pictures on the internet that it is heavy.
He has determined from looking at pictures on the Internet that it will climb and descend poorly.
He has determined from pictures on the Internet that it will ride harshly.

I would think if a person has so much knowledge that they can determine so much from the pictures of a bike and pre release press how good a bike will be, bike companies should just put you on retainer and send all their sketches to you instead of having engineers or further design team.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Trash compartment, storage, disc brakes.

No shower, no build-in navigation system, not even a f@#@$ radio to listen on long rides? .... I will wait.

I wonder how much power you loose to dispose empty gel package, if we are fighting for seconds, I'm afraid I would not be environmental friendly :0

Canadian version also already on the market:

http://bicycledesign.net/...t-snow-bike-by-venn/
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [sebo2000] [ In reply to ]
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sebo2000 wrote:
I wonder how much power you loose to dispose empty gel package, if we are fighting for seconds, I'm afraid I would not be environmental friendly :0

If we're fighting for seconds I'll show the officials video from my integrated camera and get your ass handed a 5:00 penalty for littering.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
TriRig Omegas are pretty damn easy to work on. I agree, however, regarding Treks.


Can you give me an example of "flipping brake connects"? I remember installing Shimano hydro disc brakes on my hardtail back in February and no part of that process seems like it would be easy to undo for travel.



https://vimeo.com/85855556


You can also use Formula inline speed locks.

http://formula-usa.com/...ucts/speed-lock-hose
Last edited by: lyrrad: Sep 19, 16 17:10
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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That's actually really interesting to me. In theory you could completely disconnect the cockpit for travel. Cool.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Runless wrote:
Don't worry everyone, there is no need to ride or see the Andean in person. 42x16ss has already determined it to be crap.

He has determined from looking at pictures on the internet that it is heavy.
He has determined from looking at pictures on the Internet that it will climb and descend poorly.
He has determined from pictures on the Internet that it will ride harshly.

I would think if a person has so much knowledge that they can determine so much from the pictures of a bike and pre release press how good a bike will be, bike companies should just put you on retainer and send all their sketches to you instead of having engineers or further design team.

I didn't say it was crap, I said it's not for me ;)

Maybe Diamondback have put more thought into this than I give them credit for, but after cabling and maintaining bikes like Speed Concepts, IAs, P5s etc, as well as catering to the occasional clueless owner, I like simplicity.

This does look fast, but I'd like to know how they are on the overall ownership front (something that seems to be a secondary consideration here) before I'd even consider parting with that kind of money.
Last edited by: 42x16ss: Sep 19, 16 17:51
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Tom A. and All,

I like the aero design of the new DB Andean Bike .... I think the principle of fairing a large part of the bike to reduce drag is a good one.

This faired design below was good for World Record of 89.59 mph ......



While the Andean design increases the wetted area .... I would expect the trade off to be in favor of better laminar flow.

Tom .... agreeing with your point regarding the Andean/Weiss wind tunnel readouts
.... but noting that in the photo rider Weiss may not have a well fitted position on the bike ....

This Cervelo P3C (old model) instance in the photo below is at a lower speed .... about 20 mph ...... without a skin suit ... but with several drag reducing View-Speed items .... near the same beta (yaw) but possibly from a different side which would create some measurable difference to the Andean readouts.

Also I should note that I was wearing View-Speed Cyclops glasses so I could keep my head down while reading the drag information of the run projected in real time on the tunnel ahead of me and observe small changes in position that improved or degraded the CDA.

However ..... considering just these data points as they exist ..... the CDA difference between the P3C and the Andean are noticeable.





I am hoping that if the Andean design is approved for triathlon ... we will be able to add similiar 'storage' areas to our existing bikes to provide the same utility.


Tom A. wrote:
I'm surprised this hasn't been posted yet...here's a data point from the intro video showing Weiss in the San Diego LSWT tunnel:



Considering that CdA typically drops at yaw with a rider on board in a good aero position (plus the bike-only data shown so far has the drag minimum at 15d), AND the position shown in the video (rider looking straight down), I hate to say that's not overly impressive...

Edit: fixed the tunnel name. Plus, want to point out the raw data shown includes fixture drag, so subtract ~.005 for that.

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Some really good stuff here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyWncL9nc4

They clearly read this thread.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [PubliusValerius] [ In reply to ]
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PubliusValerius wrote:
Some really good stuff here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyWncL9nc4

They clearly read this thread.

Hmmm.... seems like they did not address the most important questions (at least what I think they are).

1) Does the concept of the "aero core" keeping flow laminar from the front wheel all the way to the back hold when you have a rider on, pedaling, with feet and shins moving all over that area?

2) Wind tunnel data of this bike, tested along with the top competitors, set up in comparable sizes and comparable equipment. Even better would be rider-on velodrome test comparisons. Is this bike actually more aero than a P5 or an IA? Right now I would say maybe but we do not know. If that data looked good, why would they not post it?

I thought the best part of the video was his explanation of why riders should not fear cross-winds on the bike.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Seeing as how Rachel McBride and Matt Russell raced this weekend, did either ride this bike?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [drderek] [ In reply to ]
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drderek wrote:
Seeing as how Rachel McBride and Matt Russell raced this weekend, did either ride this bike?

Matt did not and won't be in Kona. Just not enough TITS for him to get comfortable in it before the World Champs.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Which wheels would you get with this bike?

The HED 9s (pictured I think) or the HED 6s? Or a combo of these or some other combo?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [lyrrad] [ In reply to ]
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lyrrad wrote:
GreenPlease wrote:
TriRig Omegas are pretty damn easy to work on. I agree, however, regarding Treks.

Can you give me an example of "flipping brake connects"? I remember installing Shimano hydro disc brakes on my hardtail back in February and no part of that process seems like it would be easy to undo for travel.



https://vimeo.com/85855556


You can also use Formula inline speed locks.

http://formula-usa.com/...ucts/speed-lock-hose


You need some exposed cable at the cockpit for these "solutions" to provide any value
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Xing triathlete] [ In reply to ]
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If implemented exactly as you see there. But would not be hard to imagine a scenario or implementation that doesn't require it.

And even if not - it doesnt have to be exposed. Just covered until it needs exposed. It'd be an excellent solution I think as long as implemented correctly.

"One Line Robert"
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I just have to say how much better this bike looks in black.

Today's front page Kona feature has a pic of the Andean in black and it is a totally different look. And the article says that pics don't do it justice so I am assuming it is even cooler/better in person.

My favorite bike of all time was a Diamondback Apex Mountain bike purchased in 1990. Wish I still had that bike. I would love to own another Diamondback. With the orange paint shown in this thread I was underwhelmed but in black I am suddenly intrigued (I need a new bike like I need a hole in my head).

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [wannabefaster] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.tririg.com/...9_Diamondback_Andean



Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I hope #37 changes out those tires before the race!


BryanD wrote:
http://www.tririg.com/galleries.php?id=2016_09_Diamondback_Andean

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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [aeroyoost] [ In reply to ]
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New WTC rule. All previous convicted dopers have to race in Gator Skins moving forward to offset gains acquired during their doping days that they will never lose.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [mdgreene] [ In reply to ]
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mdgreene wrote:
New WTC rule. All previous convicted dopers have to race in Gator Skins moving forward to offset gains acquired during their doping days that they will never lose.

Gatorskins and heavy butyl tubes
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Anybody know how much this monstrosity weighs?

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Working on finding it

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Found a website saying 20 pounds

https://gearjunkie.com/...e-diamondback-andean

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Found a website saying 20 pounds

https://gearjunkie.com/...e-diamondback-andean


Thanks. "20-ish depending..." Is that only the frame? If so I wouldn't mind just seeing what a fully kitted out M weighs, gotta be almost north of 23 wouldn't it?

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Last edited by: Bryancd: Oct 6, 16 10:32
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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So, less than the Cervelo P5X?


Quote:
BikeRumor:
The medium frame as pictured with all three storage compartments in place (without the spare tube) came in at 21.96lbs (9.96kg).

That's without pedals, nutrition, and the 3 bottles.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Anybody know how much this monstrosity weighs?

Supposedly +/- 20.5 lbs, depending on frame size and configuration.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Anybody know how much this monstrosity weighs?

from the FAQ video on FB, a large, built up was 20.5lbs

--------------------------------------------
TEAM F3 Undurance
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [ffips] [ In reply to ]
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ffips wrote:
So, less than the Cervelo P5X?


Quote:

BikeRumor:
The medium frame as pictured with all three storage compartments in place (without the spare tube) came in at 21.96lbs (9.96kg).


That's without pedals, nutrition, and the 3 bottles.

So just as heavy as the P5-X

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Their YouTube video said around 21 lbs. Overall a pretty good video explaining the design and features. If I had more time I'd post the link, but probably pretty easy to find with a YouTube search, video was ~20ish minutes long.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [kbd] [ In reply to ]
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqyWncL9nc4

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting to see the bike in action yesterday when Weiss came to the front. While I initially thought the bike was cool and looked superfast I had my doubts about its performance. Clearly Weiss has more difficulty than anyone else controlling their bike and riding in a straight line, and it looked like he had a lot more issues with crosswinds. Every other athlete I saw seemed much more stable. Off my list of bikes to consider...
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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I was out and didn't get to see that part of the race. I saw other posts about Weiss having trouble with the bike. He also way overbiked keeping up with the others and blew up on the run. It wasn't a good debut at all for the new Andean.

It really wasn't a very windy day on the Big Island.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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I have the exact same sentiments.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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When will the first one ship? I have the Midwest winter to contend with but spring is not that far away....
Thanks, John
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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Anybody have theirs yet?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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i've got one. it's a size L. my understanding is that the size M and XL are imminent, but that's 3rd hand.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i've got one. it's a size L. my understanding is that the size M and XL are imminent, but that's 3rd hand.

Thanks Dan. Have you put any miles on it and will you post any review/write up on the forum?
Thanks, John
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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review forthcoming.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
review forthcoming.

Excellent. Thank you Dan.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
review forthcoming.

You get any rides in with decent cross winds ?
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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the bike is not a problem in crosswinds. nor a cervelo p5x. any frame surface area behind (rearward of) the steering axis you don't need to worry about.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
the bike is not a problem in crosswinds. nor a cervelo p5x. any frame surface area behind (rearward of) the steering axis you don't need to worry about.

Cool, Kona just didn't do it any favors with the coverage, it looked pretty bad.

I personally don't like the look of the bike, but it's cool to see some different concepts.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [TriguyBlue] [ In reply to ]
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TriguyBlue wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Kona just didn't do it any favors with the coverage, it looked pretty bad.

most of it was an optical illusion. it's the first time you saw the back half of the front wheel in proximity to the frame, adjacent to it. you never get to see that with a typical bike.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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That's an interesting point I had not considered. I look forward to your review.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]
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johnnybefit wrote:
Anybody have theirs yet?

Waiting on my size M. Ordered a couple of weeks ago, was told middle/end of March. Which size did you order?

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Any run that doesn't include pooping in someone's front yard is a win.
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Re: First Look: The New Diamondback Andean Bike! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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For all the effort put into storage and aerodynamics and the "full picture", they left out an important detail regarding the weight: travel fees. Many airlines put a tight weight limit on bicycles and many people put more stuff into the bike bag than just the bike itself (tools, helmet, shoes, nutrition). My P2 with all that stuff in the bag is usually only a few pounds under the limit - the extra weight of the P5x and the Andean will take them over that easily.

Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer
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