Scathing...

---

*Your Mama*

Nice. An anonymous post.

ow

---

Train hard...race well.
www.jimmishler.com
"Jim, I happen to agree with you" DougStern

i don't think i fully understand what you are saying...what did he do that was so bad?

although i have no experience with tom or his store, he does seem to be very professional and forthright

That made less sence that most of my posts...

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

yeah, but it had better spelling ;-)

tom you you you chain cleaner you

anonymous

( he will never know who I am )

Nice first post. You are right - what other bike shop would post this ..... you see it as bad (becuase it was your bike). I (we) see it as good.

Hope you had a great day at IMFL though.

---

____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Nice response!!! lol I was thinking the same thing!

first post, no name, no location. I'd almost call out troll on this one but I'll reply:

"I always finish cleaning the bike when I arrived"

right.... I doubt it. Got a photo of your clean bike at the race?

"it is my choice to use a pump"

and a bad choice it was

"My chain was not worn and dirty"

sure looked like it from the photos.

"the bike tape is my preference how it is put on"

translation: you have no clue how to put on handlebar tape

" I went to a tri camp with chuckie v and he changed my position"

Yeah.. and all pro's know how to fit bikes too... not.

If by your username your real name is Victor, then you have just outed yourself. I see a "Victor Melfe" from Ohio.. close enough to have a bike shipped from Tom's shop...

Fuck you both...ST needs a damn working F7 key...no way I am typing in Word and pasting over every damn time.

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

  I guess my comment would be if your name wasn't on the bike, what is the big deal? Right or wrong (my wife says wrong) some people are obsessive about how they care for their bicycles. I am unfortunately one of those people who cleans up his bike after every ride, and I think Tom D. is like that as well. I think you're taking this personally and I don't think that was Toms' intent. Hopefully your bike worked great and you had a great race!

At least we know he does not have a kink in his cable. (Tom that is)

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Like I said, if pointing out that someone's bike has maintenance problems makes me an asshole,

Then I'm an asshole.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

This forum is not directly associated with Tom's shop, and he did not identify bike owners to their dirty bikes. I don't get why you are upset...your picture did not appear next to your bike with a blinking banner screaming "DIRTY BIKE OWNER!! May you DNF for a dirty chain!"

---

====================================

Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

Tom - thank you...no one ever wants to be on the last page in Cosmo either. Do's and Donts, he didnt want to be a dont - and from the sounds of it wasnt thanks to you.

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

Might want to double check your facts here:

"As a past member of the Wolverine's, Tom agreed to sponsor and had his logo on the jersey, he never would pay the club the sponsorship."

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

What your gonna rip someone on a forum and not have the balls to respond to his posts. You must be the same guy that hits a car in the parking lot and drives off without leaving a note.

In hindsight Tom should probably not have posted the pictures of those bikes on this site. The people who contracted for his services, rightly or wrongly, ended up the subject of much ridicule, and probably won't be using Tom's services again. If nothing else it was probably a poor business decision.....others may disagree, but its never a good thing to make fun of your customers or innocently expose them to ridicule which, knowing this place as he does, Tom should have foreseen.

The proper thing for Tom would have been to describe the condition of the bikes and the steps he took to remedy their shortcomings, not post pictures that their owners have obviously been able to identify.

Tom obviously goes the extra mile with each of his customers to ensure their equipment is in top condition, which is a good thing, but those same customers could probably have done without the public dressing down they received courtesy of the Slowtwitch peanut gallery.

Just a thought

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Tom, that was classic :-).

My bike shop (the few times I take my bike in) laughs at how dirty my bike is. My quick answer is would they rather have someone who trains a lot and gets good results and refers people to their shop, or have a customer who trains less, is generally slower, and nevers refers people to the store.

They prefer the former, so I tell them that my bike is dirty, cause I spend my time training, and I always refer people to their store. Works for everyone :-)

Tom is the bike paparazzi!!!!

But the bikes weren't linked to owners.....and they were dirty! It's not like Tom was saying "look at this piece of shit this guy's riding. He'll never finish; what a dumbass." He was pointing out (as an obviously bike-passionate guy) how poorly people take care of their extremely expensive machines (myself included).

---

====================================

Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

...no, Tom is like the Simon of bike maintenance. I want Paula Abdul telling me that its Ok that my bike is dirty as long as my legs are ripped and I look fast... so I get to go to Hollywood:-). Tom would just tell me that no matter how ripped my legs get, I am still slow and my bike is dirty, so I don't get to go to Hollywood :-)

I agree thats all Tom did, but he knows this place and within 10 minutes there were plenty of people saying "look at this piece of shit this guy's riding. He'll never finish; what a dumbass." He exposed a customer, who did noting other than drop of all allegedly dirty bike at his store for shipment, to the Slowtwitch Bike Police....and the rest as they say is history.

A lapse of judgement I'd say.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

first post, no name, no location. I'd almost call out troll on this one but I'll reply:

Nah, troll it is. No "almost" here.

WAFI*. Yeah, pictures of the owners along with their names, addresses and social security numbers were posted along with the pictures of the bikes. And Tom decides to, on his own dime, to correct most or all of the issues with these "race ready" bikes.

Tom, you are indeed a bastard, damn you. ;-)

***********************

*="what a fucking idiot"

"If nothing else it was probably a poor business decision.....others may disagree, but its never a good thing to make fun of your customers or innocently expose them to ridicule which, knowing this place as he does, Tom should have foreseen."

Interesting observation, but I don't buy it. Here's why:

If I hadn't documented this and the guys bike had a mechanical, you can bet I would be on the opposite end of this double edged sword.

Better to be a hammer than a nail.

Also, if "making fun of a customer" is pointing out that their bike needs maintenance- Guilty as charged.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

But you decided to sponsor a team and have your logo on their outifts...and they knew you were not going to pay for said sponsorship? Not to stir the pot or anything.

---

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

But all bullshit aside, Tom. What was he purpose of that post? I don't think it's news that some people don't take proper care of their bikes or don't know enough about bike maintainance. But so what? The post did strike me as either a bit mean-spirited ("Look at these assholes!") or a bit self-serving (Look at what a great guy I am.) So, relly, what was the point? I'm sure there was one. I just can't figure it ouit.

And Chuckie V is a better fitter than you - so there.

[reply]He exposed a customer, who did noting other than drop of all allegedly dirty bike at his store for shipment, to the Slowtwitch Bike Police..[/reply]

Well, you have a point here. I might be rather pissed to be subjected to ST's wrath when I didn't bring it on myself....

---

====================================

Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

You most certainly should have documented the contition of the bikes, but probably just not on Slowtwitch with photos. The point you were making was a good one...too many people race on dirty or poorly maintained bikes and this is indeed the place to make that point...I just don't think you should have exposed the bike owners to the ensuing ridicule in such a way that they could identify their own bikes...i.e. with photos.

And I don't think you made fun of anyone, but others here did and you should have seen that coming.

I think you could have made your very valid point in another way and not lost this person as a customer.

---

----------------------------------------------------------
"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

To show people they should maintain their bikes.

---

Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

"Better to be a hammer than a nail."

better to be a nailgun than a nail !

the hammer is for show the nailgun is for go.


Dirt

Obviously we didn't ridicule those people enough.

I'm sure if you bring your bike back Tom will throw some dirt on it and restore it to its original condition.

[reply]To show people they should maintain their bikes.[/reply]

Oh, come on, man, don't be so disingenuous. If you wanted "to show people they should maintain their bikes" why did you feel the need to show the whole forum? How 'bout just telling those bike owners? It doen't play, Tom, not at all.

Here's where I'm going with this. I bet there are quite a few nervous lurkers on this site, some customers or potential customers of Bikesport, who might think twice about bringing their bike to Tom's store for shipment or maintenance, afraid that they may be the next victims of the Forum Bike Police.......ha ha ha look at that dude's saddle its way too high, ha ha ha, look at his gearing does he know there are no hills in Florida?, ha ha ha has this guy ever heard of soap and water?

I don't think Tom made a good business decision exposing his customers like that. His intentions were good, I just think his judgement was poor.

---

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Guys, many of you are throwing "dirty" and "poorly maintained" into the same boat. There is nothing wrong with racing and training on a dirty bike (as long as your drivetrain is clean, who cares if you have dirt on the top tube). However, a poorly maintained bike can be dangerous. I'd rather see a dirty bike with brakes and gears that work (and I am stickler for that), than a waxed and clean bike with lose bolts in the handlebars (maintenance).

Its like the guy who always washes his cars but neglects to change the brake pads. I'd rather ride in the dirty car with good brakes.



Dev

Well said, and now, I totally agree with you. I'd be hesitant to do ANYTHING that might subject me to the ST Bike Police.

---

====================================

Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

I personally don't know why anyone would even give a shit what people on this forum have to say. I've see threads rip plenty of people or products I've had good luck with or good service from. If you lack that amount of self confidence that your concerned that people made fun of your bike on the slowtwitch forum you probably have a lot of other problems going on.

Lighten up, Francis. I for one have no problem with Tom posting the pics and descriptions and then letting us know he took care of the issues.

Was it in poor taste? Not likely...it goes to show how some---many?---people don't take care of their equipment and then wonder why s*it happens on race day. 4 blown tires in transition before the race just goes to illustrate the point that we as a group need to know as much as we can about at least minimal bike maintenance...we talk about how sexy our bikes are, how much we spend on them, how fast we can go....or not go as the case may be...and then treat the bikes like crap.

Tom did a service by posting what he did.

I think its misdirected anger ,,,,,,, He paid $600 for a tire on his BMW , His son or brother came out of the closet , His taxes went up , got passed over for promotion , needs two viagra now , The Harley money is remodeling the kitchen , His stocks took a dive.

And someone has to PAY. Tom is just a target

I agree, I think Tom should keep posting pictures of those bikes. If I saw one near me during a race I'd make sure to keep my distance.

Actually considering todays dimple technology wouldn't a dirty bike be more aero than a clean one?

~Matt

Unless you are going for the Olympic ITT gold medal, you think the dimples make any difference for even FOP age groupers. Gimme a break. Most guys sit up immediately when they hit a wind gust to "control their bikes" rather than staying aero. There is more time lost from poor execution in any given 10 second snapshot on race day, than any dimple technology can yield. You guys need to look at the forest before the trees?

"If I hadn't documented this and the guys bike had a mechanical, you can bet I would be on the opposite end of this double edged sword. "

I thought you were just a drop off point? I have no idea what the specifics of the situation were, don't really care either, but if you were just a drop off point I think the above is specious arguement.

I did think the whole original post was a bit, left of right...still pretty damn funny though.

Is this the dude that had 3 feet of spacers on his bike?

Also since you admitted to being an asshole can I use that all the time now?

~Matt

good answer ! like we know anything. lighten up . it's just ST . their ain't any dirty bike prison. dirty bike shame give me a brake. have some fun you all. but I ain't posting my bike . I would cry if you said somthing bad.


Dirt

---

Slowtwitch bitchist place on planet earth

Deep breath....I was joking...I'm an anti smiley face Nazi....

~Matt

I can honestly say that the original post did help me...

you can damn sure bet that the first thing I did was go check out my bike to make sure none of the same things were wrong...admittedly, it was a little condescending, but the fear of god which Tomn struck into me has helped me get back on top of keeping my bike in good order...

It did feel a lot when my parents would yell at me for not taking care of my toys, though...

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*********************
Jacob

well, the dirt would certainly have an effect on moment of inertia f it were placed on certain moving parts - creating a 'flywheel' of sorts.

and we all know, now, that the new 1hour record was set with 25-pound wheels.

huzzah! dirty is new high tech!

-mike

---

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

[reply]I personally don't know why anyone would even give a shit what people on this forum have to say. [/reply]

For how much hot air is spewed on ST on a daily basis, some people seem to think that there are a lot of people who care about opinions on ST...

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====================================

Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

"Lighten up, Francis. I for one have no problem with Tom posting the pics and descriptions and then letting us know he took care of the issues."

Well, hell, Michelle, if you have no problem with it then I guess none of us should. And does the phrase "blowing your horn" mean anything to you. IMHO that's was the whole purpose of the post.

i dont know much about bikes but seeing those photos encouraged me to take my bike to a shop and have it looked over before i went to florida. so thanks for the encouragement

I was thinking the bumpy dirt would create a disrupted airflow around the frame and components, and we all know thats 1,000,000 milliion billion, light years faster than smooth surfaces.

~Matt...was that sarcastic enough?

Now, Dr. V, did yoiu really not know that you should take good care of the bike you are about to do an Ironman on until TD's post? Hmmm???

You've never seen the movie "Stripes", have you...? ;-)

BTW, "Francis" is not necessarily a woman's name. In fact, it was my father's middle name. So, *really* lighten up this time, k? ;-) ;-)

Francis is NEVER a woman's name. Frances is, but Francis never,

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

[reply]You've never seen the movie "Stripes", have you...? ;-)

BTW, "Francis" is not necessarily a woman's name. In fact, it was my father's middle name. So, *really* lighten up this time, k? ;-) ;-)[/reply]

BTW "Michelle" is not necessarily a woman's name. In fact, it may be Francois's middle name. Perhaps the lightening up should start a bit closer to home...

Then it would be "Michel"...idiot

Could we perhaps see a current picture of your bike?

Also, the debate over bar tape is of great interest to me. I'm just wondering why you wrap yours the way you do. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, just wondering if there's a reason for it.

---

Your favorite mafia sucks.

I'm just wondering... do you think Victorbike is watching this thread? Or did he just post and check out like he said?

No good or bad... just curious...

I'm sorry, I think I missed something. Did Tom post anonymous photos of your bike, or pictures of your naked wife?

[reply]Then it would be "Michel"...idiot[/reply]

Uhhh, in case you missed it...there's been much "gender-bending" bantering about Francois. He was even listed, at one point, in the top 10 Females during IMF. Seems you might want to think twice before you fire off you're witty insults try. Or are you still working on thinking once....

I also heard that Tom "put air in a tire"

How can any of us ever talk to him again?

You're absolutely right. I checked over my bike too. Now if only I could figure out how to keep my inner ring spotless??

Thanks for posting these pictures up again as well. They continue to be a public service.

Tom is one of the greatest resources on this forum, and ought to be treated with at least a little respect. It's not like he didn't clean up those bikes, you know? Maybe if he'd just mocked people the grudge would be fair.

[reply]I bet there are quite a few nervous lurkers on this site, some customers or potential customers of Bikesport, who might think twice about bringing their bike to Tom's store for shipment or maintenance...[/reply]

Nonsense. I live in Ohio and plan on visiting BikeSport and probably buying gear from Tom. His "dirty pictures" have done nothing to dissuade me.

"Oh my garsh! I was ridiculed and treated unfairly on the Internet." Homey, please. Since when are 3rd graders allowed to participate in IMFL anyway?

---

------

I cant fucking believe I have to sign up for ironman 365 days in advance because of people like you.

"I cant fucking believe I have to sign up for ironman 365 days in advance because of people like you."

Once again proving brevity is the soul of wit. Bravo.

"Unless you are going for the Olympic ITT gold medal, you think the dimples make any difference for even FOP age groupers. Gimme a break. Most guys sit up immediately when they hit a wind gust to "control their bikes" rather than staying aero. There is more time lost from poor execution in any given 10 second snapshot on race day, than any dimple technology can yield. You guys need to look at the forest before the trees? "



Dev, you need to develop more "cosmetic bulk" like I have then you won't get blown around and you'll be able to control the Cervelo :) I plan on leaving all of the "bug splats" on my downtube from now on for aerodynamic improvements since I can't afford a dimpled disk. If I get enough of them then I may post a picture of it, complete with dirty chain on ST for the masses to ridicule.

I do not think this bike was treated like S#$%.

Apparently you haven't seen a bike that was really neglected.

This bike has probably seen several thousand miles on the road. Some kinked housing (maybe resulting in sluggish shifting), some superficial corrosion on the brake cables and brakes (happens if you train on a bike; especially in the rain) and some spilled grease around the drivetrain (never happens , right?). This bike has seen the road, contrary to the exhibition pieces owned by some of the self proclaimed "bike-experts" on this forum (I don't want to see their "professionally" tightened stems, aerobars and brakes).

From the photos, all structural parts must have been in order and not tampered with (since they are not pointed out). I see no structural or dangerous issues with this bike. But I have seen many spotless bikes in TC that had major safety issues. Most were from people that were wrenching their own bikes and in the process did more harm than good.

So why don't you all lean back at take a break.

And no, I wouldn't have appreciated my bike being ridiculed on any forum (even if it has some issues).

And yes, I ride my bike and it shows signs of wear. But my bolts are tightned with a torque wrench and I inspect all critical parts before every ride.



So here you have it, Nazis!

---

adrialin

(BOMK, racing drug and supplement free since 1985)

Tom posts pictures of his dumbshit customers dirty/poorly maintained bikes.

Slowtwitchers are shocked!! Tom creates publicity.

One of Tom's dumbshit customers is offended that his dirty bike is made public and he puts up a post trying to make Tom look bad.

Slowtwitchers are shocked!! Tom gets free publicity.

Tom has the whole 'PT Barnum thing' figured out; Don't discriminate between good publicity and bad publicity because in the end, either type of publicity will work in your favor.

---

**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Allan, the black Cervelo P3SL has one redeeming quality. when it is covered with excess bike grease, it just becomes part of the paint job. As for cosmetic bulk, even since I starte roller skiing to get ready for XC ski season, my legs have taken on Eric Heiden proportions, my jeans barely fit and my lats and shoulders are back to usual winter bulk. I fear that my already pathetic run has gotten even slower with all this excess weight and I am going through my usual offseason questioning of my "Jan Ullrich" winter weight gain program...

As for dimples, I should have no problem staying aero, as I will be too heavy to sit up and will have to support my weight with my skeletal system rather than my fat ass:-)

[reply]I cant fucking believe I have to sign up for ironman 365 days in advance because of people like you.[/reply]

Post of the month....good gawd that is classic.

So here you have it, Nazis![/reply]
--
dude, consider chilling out a little.

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Josef
-------
blog

"Actually considering todays dimple technology wouldn't a dirty bike be more aero than a clean one?"



Technically, those would be pimples, not dimples.

Real class act.....

I understand the complaint you're making. Not sure I agree with it, but understand where you're coming from.

Perhaps a note to Tom letting him know that, in the future, you'd prefer he not post pics of your bike on a publicforum. I don't know that swearing off communication with him is the rational choice.

Truth be told, there are some professions where I'd prefer the person care too much, be too torough, and go above and beyond the call ... anything to do with my (or loved one's) health, my car's health or (for a triathlete) bike health would be among those.

IMO, when Tom stops being so darn compulsive and obcessive about bikes, and/or loses his entusiasm and thoroughness ... THEN one should complain and/or take their bike elsewhere.

Personally, I'd rather my bike shop guy tell me there's 1,284 things that could be fixed/cleaned on my bike and let me choose what I want to pay for, rather than half-arse it and tell me "she's good to" when "she" may not be all that good to go.

There's gotta be some middle ground here, right? Tom posted the pics of the bike, and many of us got new ideas of things we should be looking at (not all of us are seasoned bike mechanics). Sorry you took the comments personally, but try and consider that people were commenting on the situation, not your worth as a human being.

Certainly Tom, through his past actions, has repeatedly shown that his intentions are good. Has anyone ever found Tom to be deliberately cruel or malicious in his postings?

---

=======================
-- Every morning brings opportunity;
Each evening offers judgement. --

personally, I dream of a bike shop who will be as vigilent as Tom's appears to be. I have had too many run-ins with really crappy bike shops not doing what they say they are going to do.

Does anyone else not find it hysterical that nobody would have know it was this guys bike had he not posted and told us it was?

I feel for the guy, and each person is entitled to approach sports however they want to, but riding a lot is no excuse for neglecting your bike. It takes 30 seconds to check your bike before you ride, 2 minutes to wipe down your bike after a ride and another 15 minutes to clean and re-oil your chain once a week. That minimal maintenance avoids all sorts of problems and preserves your investment.

I think Tom did everyone a service by posting those photos--- He raised an important point: The same set of people who obsess over dimples on their carbon fiber and who pay thousands of dollars to shave a few pounds off of their bikes are not caring for these dream bikes.

-Marc

Let's see... you claim to have been perhaps emotionally distressed or defamed by a post made my Mr. Demerly about a Felt bike owned by an anonymous owner without specifically identifying you? I don't think there's any basis for a cause of action against him for what he did.

On the other hand... I'd say that the text in red could be construed as emotionally distressing or defaming Mr. Demerly specifically. I would not be surprised if there was a basis for a cause of action against you for that.

If someone has already posted something like this, sorry... I don't have time to read through all the posts...

What the heck do you have against Tom? I obviously missed something, but you're sure the first to jump in on any thread which involves him. You're like a freakin' stalker, 'cause you NEVER miss a Tom Demerly thread! Crazy, yet totally annoying.

Personally I don't give a flying flapper jack how anyone else treats their bike...none of my business. I may be one of the few on here that loves cycling, rides a pretty good bike, makes sure it is safe, but spends no time cleaning it and as a result it is often caked with some dirt. I wake up in the morning smiling. Why should this bother anyone. I would rather spend my time enjoying the ride then polishing it. But that's just me.

---

________________
Adrian in Vancouver

BTW, "Francis" is not necessarily a woman's name. In fact, it was my father's middle name. So, *really* lighten up this time, k? ;-) ;-)[/reply]

BTW "Michelle" is not necessarily a woman's name. In fact, it may be Francois's middle name. Perhaps the lightening up should start a bit closer to home...
==============================================================================================

Play nice children or you will sit on the naughty chairs in recess!

---

"How bad can it be?" - SimpleS

Oh yeah, THANKS A LOT TOM. because of you, I had to RETAPE my aerobars yesterday after yor initial post because I felt like a poser. I actually taped them the other way for preference, but now that they are the right way, I feel that all is well with the slowtwich universe :) Sadly, I don't clean my bike enough but I definitely clean the chain enough.

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*****************************************

berndog
How did we all get sucked into this crazy sport anyway?!!

Grow up. If I saw my filthy bike on a web site I'd piss my pants and get on with life. Most people who work in bike shops are pretty odd anyway. Relax.

Well, AJ you are entitled to feel that way. Actually go look at my bike and you can tell I feel the same.

But if someone were to take pictures of it and post in on the web and show how dirty it was, I wouldn't care. It's dirty I know it, and I dont care.

Victor appearently has a dirty bike, knows it (I think), doesn't want anyone else to know it, but in reality his freind knows it cause they could spot it in unlabeled pictures. Then jumps on a forum and tells everyone that the dirty Felt is his. So know we all know he rides a dirty bike and I think is ashamed of it.

I also know if I take my bike to Tom, It may show up as a don't bike somewhere. Will get fixed properly and with more care then I have seen from any of the local bikestores around me so far.

Hey maybe we can start a Dirty little Bike thread.

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Devil,
My first thought's were exactly the same.

So should we all Hail to the Victor????

---

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

I would welcome the opportunity to have my bike critiqued thusly! I try to keep it clean, but I have no idea of the small things to look for that might suggest a problem down the road. Even looking at the photos you posted (did these come from Tom's article?), I can't conclusively determine the problems in all of the circled areas.

We are (in part) an informational forum, and if my bike "has" to be depicted in order to demonstrate problem areas, then I wouldn't mind at all. My name here is not anonymous, but my bike sure is.....and even at that, my ego is not so large that I would get offended by having my "ignorance" (which I acknowledge) put on public display.

are you talking to me dude? Can't you read. There was a smiley in the frickin post dude. I love Tom D. I was just saying that because I respect him so much, I ACTUALLY RETAPED my bars just because he said that. Dude, you need to learn to read between the lines.

In case no one else got it, I am so glad Tom D is here and I totally soak up all his info, and I have read every stinkin equipment review on his site.

And my bike wasn't on the website. Then again, maybe you are replying to victorbike and not to me, but if so, you have to make that clear man and specificially reply to him and not to the last poster.

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*****************************************

berndog
How did we all get sucked into this crazy sport anyway?!!

What? You have never met man-child who thinks that a 10 degree "kink" in a shifter cable is a sin against humanity and another great opportunity to publicize himself?

I am not sure I agree with Tom's decision to post those pics, but that's pretty irrelevant, I am sure I have made some decisions that Tom wouldn't agree with.

However, it seems as if he knew he might be stirring up trouble, his post did start with "Not to be a dick but..."

Usually when you say that you know you are in danger of being viewed as a dick so I don't think this rant should come as a suprise to anyone.

---

---

Portside Athletics Blog

Personally, I'd like to thank Tom for the post and for taking some of the grief this thread gave him.

To just write some of those problems doesn't quite demonstrate the problem. Before Tom's pics, I pictured a 'kinked cable' as something so obviously bent that it may as well have been folded into a giraff like a balloon in the hands of a circus clown. It helps to see the detailed level of 'unnacceptability' an anal bike mechanic found on these bikes.

Thanks!

"flying flapper jack"

I LOVE THAT!!

I am not criticizing Tom or thanking him, he seems like a super nice guy to me. All I am saying, is that this shouldn't be a suprise to him or anyone else, he obviously had some idea that he might come across as a bad guy. However, this also means not tearing apart the original poster. If Tom initially conceded what he was doing might be perceived as dick-ish, then we shouldn't flame someone for when they call him on it.

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Portside Athletics Blog

Why cause Tom grief?

He is doing his job - he is very particular about his job (call it anal if you like) but that is something that is sadly missing in so many professions these days - particularly professions involving maintenance of items that can either harm us or help us (cars and bikes -- planes too for that matter)

Have I ever bought anything from Tom? A pair of sunglasses once.

Have I ever visited his store? Yes - several times while in the area.

Would Tom even know who I am? Probably not

Was he advertising his services? No - he was merely pointing out items that as a wrench - concerned him.

Ok - dirt on a bike - that's no big deal to some people - to others - it's a huge deal.

Worn and damaged components - that's a whole other story

The general basis to the thread was that so many people poorly maintain their bikes and if by that one thread - one of the thousands of slowtwitchers here inspoects their bike and finds damage that could contribute to a serious wreck - and it is avoided - then Tom's post is worth all the shit he has copped over this.

I am certain - that many people - who have not posted on this thread - have had a second look at their bikes and possible re-considered the way they care for them as a result of his inital thread.

Why be the Peaceful Tribe anymore - let's call ourselves the Troll's bitches

because sadly - too many folks come in here - drag a thread through to stir up crap - and disappear - never to contribute.

Tom D on the other hand - along with so many other people in here - are CONTRIBUTORS on so many levels and by being visible - unfortunately that attracts freaks like flies to flypaper

Get over it - clean and maintain your bikes - or don't - that's your call - but is it really worth the time of day that everyone has spent replying on this thread?????



Flame away - I am done with this thread

I think the person who owned the Felt has the right to be upset over having his bicycle posted on the website. I furthermore think it's downright thoughtless for several members of this forum to flame the guy for posting his legitimate feelings. One guy, even told him off in an off hand manner, stating that he was the reason why he has to sign up for Ironman 365 days in advance.

As I sat sat there and read the posts, I truely developed a sense of disrespect for a lot of the people in this group. The guy, Victory, or whatever, has the right not to have his personal belongings posted and discussed on open forum without his prior permission. If Tom had asked the guy for the "GO" to post and got it, then Tom could have gone ahead and did his presentation without violating customer-store "ethics". The bike was brought there to be shipped, not to be presented as a "unmaintained" scenario for a dialogue on a forum. Since it is very apparent that Tom did not ask for permission, I feel that Tom did over step his boundries from an ethical standpoint.

Alot of people treat their equipment very personally. To some other people, a bicycle is something you leave behind the garage until you need. Some other people treat the bicycle better than they treat themselves. To some people, maybe having a picture of their bicycle picked apart on the internet is like someone posting a candid photo of them in the locker room, even though the face is blurred. If the person has feelings about their equipment put on display without permission, I feel it is wrong to try and "troll" them out or what ever the posters on this forum do to belittle that person.

Truely disapointed in alot of ST people.

Well said, sometimes things can be good-natured around here, sometimes they can be a little spiteful.

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Portside Athletics Blog

I also agree to the point of this. I see that extreme closeups were done, and I know that most of the details of many of our bikes would look like a catastrophe waiting to happen magnified to that degree. More a show a good macro photography than problems other than housekeeping. And, permission would have justified it and made a very professional point.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

Hmmm are pimples faster than dimples?

~Matt

"the bike tape is my preference how it is put on"

translation: you have no clue how to put on handlebar tape

I have come to the conclusion after being a close observer and student of this sport for many years that half the people in this sport are "Experts" the other half are totally clueless.

As for Tom's original post on this, I got what he was trying to get - that many people in the sport don't take good care of their bikes( which is dead-on right), That many bikes out there are being ridden that are mechanically unsafe( which is dead-on right) and that many people are very poorly set up on their bikes( which is dead-on right).

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Playing devils advocate here. People also have the right to privacy and to wallow in their ignorance. Had Tom been a doctor and pulled something similar about "Look at how fat these people are? Why can't they maintain their bodies and trim that pubic hair". He would have been sued out of existance.

~Matt

I'm dropping off some dry cleaning today. If I find of my cleaner has posted pics of my clothes on drycleaners.com accompanied by unflattering comments about them, I would question whether that is a place I want to continue to do business with.

Its not that I don't have a thick skin or a sense of humor but I do expect some level of respect from people I am paying to perform a service for me. I'm not going to lose any sleep if that mustard stain on my blue shirt shows up on the internet but you can be assured I will have a new dry cleaner.

I would agree with you had Tom identified this guy in any way. To all but maybe a handful (if that) of people no one had any idea whose bike it was. It could have Tom's for all anyone knew here. This is no big deal and the reaction to it is hysterical on many levels

"Playing devils advocate here. People also have the right to privacy and to wallow in their ignorance. Had Tom been a doctor and pulled something similar about "Look at how fat these people are? Why can't they maintain their bodies and trim that pubic hair". He would have been sued out of existance."

Would that thread have been longer than this one?

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"At the end he was staggering into parked cars and accusing his support-van driver of trying to poison him." A description of John Dunbar in the 1st Hawaii Iron Man

Disturbing?!?.....That photo of you in bed with that tiny man was disturbing. ;-)

Ironic coming from you isn't it? You raised issues about Tom that had ZERO to do with this forum or his post. Your allegations are one sided and without proof. (Unlike Tom's photos) Had you kept your mouth shut no one would known it was your bike and if you felt it necessary to call Tom out on this then you could have called him to discuss it but instead you come here to troll and make accusations. It says a lot that you come to a forum you never have posted in before, anonymously, and make these statements and then run off. Sort of a drive by troll.

No. It basically a matter of respect and ethics. Does not matter whether there has been identification of the owner to the public or not. The owner of the bike saw enough of the pictures to figure out that it was his bike and that is enough.

Tom did not respect his customer, and the people on Slowtwitch did not respect another athlete.

If you have problems following general guidelines for codes of ethics, respect, or personal interaction, I would perhaps recommend attending a seminar or an ethics class at your local college.

I deal with alot of people every day, and trust me, everyone has different levels of what they consider private and personal.

I agree!!!

>> Truely disapointed in alot of ST people. <<

Stick around and you'll see this is par for the course for many, so next time don't be surprised.

clm

PS--You can put me down as a vote for totally uncool for Tom to post the pics like he did w/o the owners knowledge or permission. You can also put me down as a member of the "my bike is usually dirty" club.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Shame on you clm!! :)

The level of privacy expected and guaranteed by law with your Dr. is a bit different than the level you expect from your bike store. Would it be ok if Tom and his guys stood around and laughed at it? If Tom brought his friends who showed up for a ride? When is it okay for him to point this out and when is it not?

I think the line is drawn somewhere well before posting on the internet, that's fair don't you think?

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Portside Athletics Blog

I actually think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion, but then again my bike is always a museum piece and this is ST! ;)

Why clean it when you can get someone else to come over and do it for you???? ;-)

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I agree with you that Tom was out of line by posting that stuff your bike. And yes, at any other bike shop, if an employee posted stuff like that about their customers they would be fired. Total lack of professionalism.

For the record, if you look at it closely, I was trying to run away from that bed! ;-)



And I resent the expression "tiny man"! :-)

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

If there was an expectation of privacy I might agree with you. Had Tom posted a picture of a bike that he held as a good example of great maintenance and care would you have an issue then?

 


And I resent the expression "tiny man"! :-)[/reply]

I agree SAC, you aren't that small in stature. It likely should have read "tiny manHOOD" ;)

I think 5280 has done an excellent job providing an example of what you were talking about.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

It doesn't matter, good/bad example. You don't post pics like he did w/o the owner's knowledge or permission. For me, it's a lack of professionalism.

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Tough times don't last, tough people do ;-)
Francois.

No, that is my point, I don't see any expected right to privacy for a bike. I think that the poster has gone far beyond anything Tom did.

Would you be ok if your local car dealership posted pics of your car and talked about how poorly maintained it was on a forum? How about if your plumber posted pics of the piss stains on your toilet? I'm sure you can think of many other examples.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

I guess the easiest way to avoid the debate about whether what Tom did amounted to an invasion of privacy or just a bit of generous tweaking and brotherly advice is to leave it alone and confine each of our comments to how it would you feel.

Personally: posting a picture of any of my property, on the internet, without my permission let alone doing so as an invitation to a wide group of fellow athletes to comment disparagingly would P*ss me off about 6 out of 10.

Doing any work on my bike without getting my approval for whatever reason is a 10.

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"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

Well I can respect those who think that. I think it is silly, it is an F'ing bike for God sake. People are freaking over a picture of a damn bike! I find it interesting that all this talk about how bad Tom is but no one calls out the poster and his claims about Tom which are WAY more damaging that some stupid dirty bike photo. No one even knew who owned it

She's right, you know. The 5 year old, that is.

OK, then we will have to agree to disagree. The bike was the guy's personal property, whether or not you see a right to privacy about his bike is irrelevant, it belongs to that guy, not to Tom. Tom didn't have a right to post those pics without his permission.

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Portside Athletics Blog

Tom is a shrewd business man and plays this forum like a fine-tuned violin. He knows exactly when it is good for business to provide over-the-top service (slowtwitcher flies in for fitting) and when to stir things up on here. I have been in his shop many many times (spent a small fortune) and have seen and experienced both the best(frequently) and worst service (occasionally) a bike shop has to offer. I also rode with the Wolverine sports club and contrary to what the original poster stated, felt Bikesport was a decent sponsor. Tom is loving all this attention right now.

My car I don't care, because no one knows it is mine. My house is different, I expect a level of privacy in my home.

Well I think the reaction to this is crazy. Where were all you people when Tom posted the post?

This issue is truly not about a matter of privacy. It is a matter of respect for the person. Going down the "expectation of privacy" argument is dealing with a symptom of the matter, not the cause.

Does not matter if the bicycle was used a good example or a bad example. All that matters was permission was not requested from the customer and now the customer has the right not to be happy. Granted, the customer would probably have a lower chance of being unhappy if the bicycle was used as a "good example", but never-the-less, even that does not make it right if permission is not granted.

PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[reply]My car I don't care, because no one knows it is mine. My house is different, I expect a level of privacy in my home.[/reply]

Maybe he expects a level of privacy in his bike. Also I doubt anyone on a forum will be able to ID your house by a phot of a piss stained toilet, so there is no difference. Actually there is a difference, more people see you in your car then see your toilet.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

Fair enough. I honestly just think his reaction is over the top and found his accusations to be way more harmful and unethical than what Tom did. It was just a photo of a bike to me.

And you obviously speak for all the lurkers and all of Bikesport's potential customers. Obviously.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

Maybe he expects a level of privacy in his bike.

Yes, undoubtedly it was very easy to pick *his* bike out of the nearly 2100 in transition. Stuck out like a sore thumb.

Unless the person in question packed the bike himself and planned on riding alone in a basement somewhere, he should have expected that SOMEONE would see his bicycle, however dirty or clean it may be. I heard they even had cameras at the race taking pictures and video to be broadcast on TV and the INTERNET!

Expectation of privacy? Comeon.

If you change your shorts in the park, expect your goods to show up on the internet, it's the new millenium...or Newmanium if you prefer.

Well, I don't know the facts that Victor stated and whether they have a foundation in truthfulness or not. I assume that it is the responsibility of Victor to make sure that what he states is true or not, and not for ST people to call it out. I personally would have taken the issue out soley with Tom, but since this all started in a public forum, I can see Victor's reasoning.

Yes, it was just a photo of a bike, but for example, some people go out looking for public nude beaches, while others will wear a towel at all times in the locker room. It's all relative to the person affected.

So using this personal privacy theory would mean that all of the other web sites (including Cervelo's) that posted pics of people's bikes are in the wrong? I could probably easily find pics on other sites that poke fun at people's bikes...such as 20 Gels taped to the top tube, 5 water bottles, etc.

Victor, your post has prompted a violent reaction by many slowtwitchers. Your bike has been exposed as being dirty. You seemingly have been outed. But you saved a lot of money on your car insurance.

(Geico commercials are the best)

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http://thechuckblog.blogspot.com

Two things:

1) If a pic of your "goods" was on the net would you be ok with it simply because you changed in a park? Most people wouldn't.

2) This isn't about just the pic. It's about the pic and the context. My examples show this. Why don't you answer those examples.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

Somebody needs a hug

If I don't want my goods on the internet (and if I did, I'm sure they would fetch top dollar!) I won't show them in a public setting. If I don't want my bike on the internet, I'll keep it locked in my basement. If I don't want it to be used on said internet as a 'bad' example, should I decide to take it in PUBLIC, then I'll clean and maintain it.

Personal responsibility people. Don't shoot the observer who was doing us all a favor.

I was planning on making the trip to drop about $3500 on a new bike & wheels. My decision to do so was purely based on the feedback of this forum. However, after reading this particular thread (original thread), and the thread referring to the QR Kilo vs Felt value, I have decided to look elsewhere.

Techanically, by state code, the brick and mortar shop located in Michigan, "Bike Sport Michigan", owned and operated by Tom Demerly, is private property. Private property means not public property. The pictures were taken of the bicycle while it was interned in the care of Tom Demerly on private property. Unless you can figure out how that place and Tom's care became public property for that moment the photo's were taken, it is still considered private property.

Fair enough, it's less about privacy and more about respect. There is a difference between your bike being in a photo and a photo being taken of your bike...to point out how poorly you take care of it. Intent is a poweful thing, and Tom's intent was clear.

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Portside Athletics Blog

What this comes down to is trust. The man trusted Demerly and that trust was broken.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

<<Techanically, by state code, the brick and mortar shop located in Michigan, "Bike Sport Michigan", owned and operated by Tom Demerly, is private property. Private property means not public property. The pictures were taken of the bicycle while it was interned in the care of Tom Demerly on private property. Unless you can figure out how that place and Tom's care became public property for that moment the photo's were taken, it is still considered private property. >>

On which a business open to the PUBLIC is run....

'Why clean it when you can get someone else to come over and do it for you???? ;-) '



Because you can drink beer while you do it.

<<Because you can drink beer while you do it. >>

You could also drink beer to celebrate someone else cleaning your bike!

"Would you be ok if your local car dealership posted pics of your car and talked about how poorly maintained it was on a forum? How about if your plumber posted pics of the piss stains on your toilet? I'm sure you can think of many other examples"

If there was no way to link me to the photographs how am I harmed. So much has been made of the poster's bike being displayed on the internet but no one has explained how this caused any harm.

No one even knew who owned it


That's exactly my point too. Tom didn't print the guy's name and address and call him a filthy slob.

I don't mean to be a dick, but this latest group of bikes we got going to Ironman florida are.... Quote | Reply

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the poorest maintained group of bikes I have ever seen headed to an Ironman.

We have a bunch of bikes here for pick-up by Tri-Bike transport. The people who own them are telling us, "They are fine- ready to go.... I had it all tuned up!"

This is what we found this morning:

• One broken frame (severly dented and cracked under top tube at seat tube).
• Three bikes with more spacers on the steer tube than any fork manufacturer would be comfortable with.
• Six (6!) rear brake cables with housing seriously kinked at the rear brake barrel adjust making the brakes feel very stiff and sluggish.
• One seized BB producing an incredible amount of drag.
• Two bikes with the handlebar tape on backwards so that it rolls up when you grip the base bars.
• One bike with the elbow pads on backwards.
• A bike headed to Ironman Florida for a 10:10 finisher but equipped with a 12-27 cogset. This cogset nearly exceeds the limit of the rear derailleur on the bike and actually rubs the top jockey wheel in the 27 tooth cog with the "B" screw turned all the way in. Who needs a 12-27 in Florida? the course is flat!
• All bikes are not just dirty- they are filthy.
• Numerous corroded stem bolts.

I don't want to come off as uppety or snobish or a know-it-all, but these people trained hard and long and paid big money for these bikes and to be in the race. They are paying good money to get their bikes to the race- but they are not performing even the most basic PMCS (Preventive Maintenance Checks and Services) on them.

It seems like people would learn from wathcing the Tour de France on TV. That they would get used t the idea that the bikes are washed and maintained. I know the average athlete can't do that after every long ride- it isn't even necessary. But it is a good idea before a big, important event like Ironman.

It bothered us so bad we just decided to wash the bikes, lube them, safety check them and re-tape the ones that are done backwards. I just couldn't stand to see these bikes sent to the race in this condition.

And yes, I did photograph them all.... But i am too busy working on them right now to put up the photos. they are ugly.....


"Don't be too quick to judge. Assume the best in someone until they prove otherwise." -Slowtwitcher, 8/30/05




Anyone else see the irony in Tom's tag line?

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You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones

HAHA, I made a post about the same thing earlier this morning, seems like Tom shouldn't be too suprised when his title included the words "I don't mean to be a dick." If you have to say that, chances are you are going to come across as a dick...for better or for worse.

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Portside Athletics Blog

As I stated already, Tom was entrusted with this mans bike and he broke that trust.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

The most basic point is it's unprofessional for a business owner or employee to ridicule a customer. Posting the pictures in this context amounts to ridiculing the owner. It's sad that our expectations of businesses have sunk so low that something so basic isn't noted.

 "The most basic point is it's unprofessional for a business owner or employee to ridicule a customer."

Amen! Tom was paid to pack a bike. In the process of doing that he gave the guy shit. It doesn�t matter if he was damaged or humiliated in anyway. The deal was to pack his bike and Tom used it as a publicity tool. No harm but a big foul.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I do not think the picture should have been posted either. Yes, Tom did not put the person's name out there, but he did give enough details for someone with enough time to figure out who it is.

"The most basic point is it's unprofessional for a business owner or employee to ridicule a customer. Posting the pictures in this context amounts to ridiculing the owner. It's sad that our expectations of businesses have sunk so low that something so basic isn't noted."



That pretty well sums it up. Time to move on.

Not only did you not know who owned the bike but the pictures were only of select areas. Was it good or bad to post them, that is questionable. In my opinion you get what you get when you turn a nice bike into a piece of shit by not maintaining it properly.

As for the potential loss of customers that do not want their dirty bikes pictured, well as a business owner you do not want those customers anyway, they are more trouble than they are worth.

"As for the potential loss of customers that do not want their dirty bikes pictured, well as a business owner you do not want those customers anyway, they are more trouble than they are worth."



Yup, if I were a bike shop owner I would not want a bunch of rich guys who can't clean or maintain their bikes as customers. Especially when they need components replaced and a new 4k bike every couple of years - screw those guys.

"Right to privacy" certainly not nor would I advocate for such a thing. However most business people get the consent of an individual, particularly if that individual is a customer, before using their bikes as an example, particularly as a bad example.

I think this is not a question of "right to privacy" as much as lack of respect.

As far as "Going farther than Tom" I guess I don't see that. Both lacked respect, however Tom drew first blood.

I guess, as a business person, I have a hard time understanding seeing myself do something like what Tom did. However I also don't operate in an industry were a 6 month lead time is "ok" delivery either. Christ we could design, build and ship a machine that could assemble a bike in that amount of time...ok 8-10 months maybe.

~Matt

Take this thread to the Slowman newly created Tom Demerly Room please.







.

Good idea or at least start charging.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Good luck finding a privacy law that forbids posting pictures of a bike brought into a store for shipping. Plus libel laws wouldn't even work here because of the "intent" involved with it. What I'm seeing is a lot of people who hate Tom post in agreeement with Victorbike.

I'm still at a loss as too why any of the posters to this thread would give one shit if pictures of your bike were posted on this forum. Is your self-esteem so wrapped up with the condition or type of bike that you own that you find it a reflection of yourself. If it is your really fucked up in the head.

Whats the difference here between this and those that take triathlon race pictures of a website and make fun of them.

Matt,

I am not a lawyer, but perhaps there is a difference between a person and ther personal possesions.

As for Tom's actions, in the grand scheme he was again trying to point out that:

1. Many bikes in this sport are poorly maintained.

2. Many bikes in this sport are being ridden that are potentially unsafe.

3. Many people are riding ill-fitting bikes.

All of the above are 100% true facts. You can stroll through the transition zone at any triathlon to figure out these facts.

Fleck

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

You have obviously never owned a customer oriented business for yourself, those are the types that generally only come in to test drive and buy elsewhere, or will work you over to the bare bottom price, neither one of which are worth the effort.


What did Tom make in shipping the bike? Those people could not have been regular customers or their bikes would not look like that, hell I give my LBS shit over how he does not clean his bike nutil after a Saturday ride I clean it myself. It is a personality trait to not let dirty bikes out on the road.

This is not personal, but if you have been there done that you would understand, some customers are not worth it no matter what the cost. I am still not saying it was the right thing to do though.

Actually what you see is a lot of people who disagree with Tom and hate has nothing to do with it. Tom forgot for a sec who butters his bread. His job was ship the bikes. If someone got hurt it doesn't matter. The customer trusted him to ship the bikes and instead he chose to use them in a public way without the customer's consent. I for one wouldn't do buisness there because the chances are high that your personal life is rumor foder. You bring in a bike and the mechanics might point things out to other customers showing what a dip shit you are. Can I prove it? Yeah Tom did it on the forum.

"Whats the difference here between this and those that take triathlon race pictures of a website and make fun of them."

Simple. Tom was payed to ship bikes and keep his yap shut about his customers. Pictures on a website are just that. Pictures on a website. Now if the photographer came on the forum and said "Hey look at these stupid fuckers!" Then you would be apples to apples.

Tom broke trust and doesn't care. It's America but I for one have changed my view of him.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Very lucid post and very well put. Although I didn't change the opinion I had of Tom.

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

I still love the dude as a dude but as a buisness owner he is typical of what retail is today.

Your still the world's greatest coach though.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Definately a difference between people and "things", however no one likes to be held up as a "poor example".

Again what Tom did was perfectly fine, just a tad bit disrespectful, IMHO. As you pointed out the same point could have been made using any number of pictures of any number of bikes from any number of locations. Had these bikes been a bit more anonamous none of this would have come up.

Again Tom did nothing wrong, in fact some might say he did everyone a service. However I think at very least we can acknowledge the method that he used was less than optimal....at least from his customers point of view....obviously.

~Matt

I'll put that quote on the testimonials section of my new webpage, thanks! ;-)

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

"at least from his customers point of view....obviously. "

What other point of view matters? This forum doesn't pay his bills his customers do.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Light, yet filling...

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"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

 "I'll put that quote on the testimonials section of my new webpage, thanks! ;-) "

I see your profits taking a dive in the near future.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Maybe you should ask Tom that question as apparently he doesn't mind pissing off his customers. Times must be good Eh?

~Matt

Times are great. Customer trust and service are dead all across retail. There is no where esle to go.

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

I didn't know there was an acronym for this! This world is going over the top with acronyms. Amazing.

TFLMK (Thanks for letting me know). ISGOSTNADSW (I should get off slowtwitch now and do some work).

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Adrian in Vancouver

Funny, I had the opposite reaction. I think I appreciate/like Tom more now...and I think it's too bad that he'll will probably refrain from such posts in the future. I guess he'll just have to take photos of bikes in the TA of races to make his point instead of those brought to his shop.

That is your choice. But you are looking at it from the point of view as a reader. Would you really have the same thoughts as a customer?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

He could post pics of my bike with tires so worn you could see the air rolling around and I wouldn't care. I would probably be proud of it in some weird way. Guess I just don't get my panties in a bunch so easy.

The point could have been made without pictures. It wasn't even necessary to include the specific makes & models of bikes involved.

Then your an easy going kinda guy but Tom's job is to know his cutomers and keep their trust. Like I said most people woudn't care but it matters to those who felt like their trust was broken.

Then again Tom is making a killing so what I do I know?

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customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

Exactly my response.

Personally if indeed I was a customer of Tom's and he posted my bike, it probably would not have bothered me...well because things like that don't bother me.

Howevre I think a good deal of those posting here would just fly off the handle if put in the same situation.

~Matt

Ya, but, knowing ST and the general response is either:

"Your seat's too high" or

"Pics, or it doesn't exist"

Chris

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Chris
*********************
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”
― Hunter S. Thompson,

As I read the posts that have accumulated since this nimrod (Victorbike) played Mr passiveaggressive, I can only conclude that any loose collection of individuals in one place quickly take on the conversational characteristics of my ex-wife and her mother... whipping each other into a frenzy of hyperbole and bitchiness. I shudder to think where this post gets to when I reach page 8.... tom demerly burned in effigy? Everyone takes "feedback" on Slowtwitch the way they take the feedback that life gives you every day. Hang loose like a mongoose....

maybe but it would be a bit like the newspaper with no photos. If the guy is angry then whatever, be angry, but he should have called or emailed Tom directly. He calls out Tom for his behavior and then proceeds to handle it with a post on ST. His actions are more questionable to me than what Tom did. If he really wanted to settle it he would have called, gone down or emailed Tom like an adult.

piss stains I could deal with...but pictures of my skid marks would be going WAAAAY over the line.

Right... and as an adult and business owner Tom should have handled the bike issues in person, on the phone or through email with the bike owner, not through a post on ST.

I pretty sure when he dropped off his bike he told Tom he didn't want any pictures of it taken.

If this is the case please stop taking pictures of bike transitions at races because my bike may show up in the picture and because I use handlebar tape that doesn't match I don't want anyone on this forum or the internet to see it. I couldn't take the humiliation of seeing my bike dissed on slowtwitch.

I still don't know why you would care that your bike is getting dissed. For the most part anyone on the forum wouldn't even know who you were.

Just so you know - usually I don't agree with Tom. In fact his Cervelo touting posts bother the hell out of me. I just chalk this one up to someone that has a very low self image of himself.

"Then your an easy going kinda guy but Tom's job is to know his cutomers and keep their trust. Like I said most people woudn't care but it matters to those who felt like their trust was broken."

What the hell is this world coming to when Tibbs (A) Makes sense and (B) Has not a single typo in his post.

I thought Tom's outing of badly maintained bikes was a little arrogant. I would have been a little pissed if that was my Felt. I don't think Tom did wrong in checking out the bikes, but outing these people as "Bad-Bike-Maintenence-People" would have irk'd me! I don't think Tom D would be my LBS of choice. He does know everything about bikes and the industry, but he seems to be the first to tell you, that he does know everything about bikes and the industry.

Bingo! 5280 is quick to criticise, but refuses to see it from both sides. They both are at fault.

I am surprised nobody has commented on this but I'll repeat anyway:

Tom was entrusted with this guys bike and he broke that trust.

It does not matter if it wasn't horrible or he did not publish his name or he fixed stuff. He broke the trust and that can only lead to further problems. The guy may fix your car perfectly and on the cheap but if you spy him going through the drive through at McDonalds in it you are going to have trust issues. Same thing.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

<<I would have been a little pissed if that was my Felt.>>

Me too....the thought of trying to ride that bike in a big race would have pissed me off....oh...you meant about the pics....

"Then your an easy going kinda guy but Tom's job is to know his cutomers and keep their trust. Like I said most people woudn't care but it matters to those who felt like their trust was broken."

What the hell is this world coming to when Tibbs (A) Makes sense and (B) Has not a single typo in his post."

You wrote too soon. He has a typo -"your".

You wrote too soon. He has a typo "your".



Thank God, the world is right again.

WOW this thread is gropwing fast! imagine if Tom had posted pics with chicks in bikinis on those bikes, we'd be up to 2000 responses by now.

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"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."
John Sawhill

 
I do see both sides, I just happen to think the original poster is over the top in his reaction. I see why some people don't like Tom's post and think he was wrong. I don't agree however. That stated, this goes back to the old kindergarten lesson of two wrongs don't make a right. Let's assume that Tom thinks his post is fine so no reason for him not to post. The poster of this thread does think it was wrong to put his "private" business on ST so why turn around and handle the problem here? I just see it as hypocritical to complain about (anonymous) pictures of your bike being here yet you will open this discussion here.

Wow, do you know the meaning of the word hypocrisy?

Stop and think before you go typing posts like that one.

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Portside Athletics Blog

You're missing the point. It is not really about the bike or the invasion of privacy. It is merely a matter of respect that Tom did not pay to Victor by not asking permission to post photos. I'm pretty sure Victor did not want photos of his bicycle, no matter in what condition, to be deseminized on the forum without his explicit permission.

Victor (if that's his name) dropped off the bicycle for a specific purpose, to be shipped, and not to be put on display. How the bike appears to other people, or where it appears is immatieral.

Simply put, Tom diplayed something that belonged to Victor without his permission and Victor simply called him on it in the same media Tom chose to use.

Where this can stop is where Tom comes back into the forum, apologizes to Victor for not asking permission for posting the pictures, and it is done.

All other conjecture about the size of Victor's manhood, or any other personal attacks toward him are pretty much on the down low and don't for a second think that you are immune to the same kind of falacy when it comes up and bites you in the ass later on.

Trust me, there are more people on Victor's side than you think.

MOVE OVER FRANCOIS!!

He already said what he thought:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...i?post=606967#606967

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-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com

You only found one typo? You need to read more carefully.

HH

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

What don't you get? The guy is pissed because Tom broke his "trust" (whatever that is at a bike shop) and outed him and his Felt so his solution is to come her and post another post to draw attention to the already forgotten first post and disparages Tom while he is at it. This would be so not an issue if he had just talked to Tom directly or, even better, just let it go. This post has almost 10,000 views.

Quote from original post "If Mr. Demerly wanted to relay information to me he should have called me. " Well would have been good advice for victor.

"Kinda" is not a word.

Do I win a prize?

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Portside Athletics Blog

"You only found one typo. You need to read more carefully"

Fair enough, I didn't anticipate being graded but since I opened the can of worms I should have been more careful. I found this one:

Then again Tom is making a killing so what I do I know?

I assume we are giving Tibbs a pass on grammar??

I'll let Tibbs get away with "kinda" and the lack of commas in the second sentence. There are two additional misspelled words.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

There is nothing I don't get. I was commenting on what someone else posted as well, you criticize this guy for taking this to the forum. He wasn't the one that took it to the forum in the first place. Honestly, I think he had a right to make his post, moreso than Tom.

He was ridiculed on this forum, if he felt the need to defend himself he has every right. This isn't two wrong making a right. Tom brought it to the forum, this guy came back to stick up for himself, that is perfectly reasonable. You may say he has a fragile ego or something like that, but that's childish. Pictures of his bike were posted here without his permission and he was ridiculed by someone whom he paid to do him a service, that is, ship his bike. He has every right to defend himself on the same forum Tom criticized him on.

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Portside Athletics Blog

cutomers, woudn't

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I'm really starting to think 5280 is arguing just to argue. He even argued about something we argreed on.

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Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

Who was? Some random guy who was one of 2,000 people doing IMFL? I still don't know who he is nor do I care. I get why you don't like Tom's post, but settling it here was every bit as poor a choice as Tom's may have been.

"I'll let Tibbs get away with "kinda" and the lack of commas in the second sentence. There are two additional misspelled words."

Good eye. "cutomers" and "woudn't". I need to read more carefully.

Get over it. Photos are posted of things all the time without the persons permission.

If you need to give permission to post pictures of someones bike on this forum or anywhere else, I shouldn't see any more pictures of the bike transition on this forum or anywhere else because I am stating for everyone I don't give permission to use a picture of my bike anywhere online.

Your acting like Tom posted the guys medical history on the internet.

Plus like I care what you or anyone else here thinks of me. So go ahead rip me if you want, I don't really give a shit.

[reply]Where this can stop is where Tom comes back into the forum, apologizes to Victor for not asking permission for posting the pictures, and it is done.
Trust me, there are more people on Victor's side than you think.[/reply]


Very well said. You know Tom's watching......the door's open for him.....

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

It is irrelevant who this guy was or whether you or I may or may not know who he is. When he is brought into a discussion on this forum (to be ridiculed) he has every right to come back and defend himself. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

That would be like after my first reply to you, me then telling you that you were no longer allowed to reply, sorry man, I get the last word, even if I said you were a thief and you like to cut people's brake cables, too bad, you can't defend yourself. Is that fair? I don't know you any more than I know the guy whose bike it was, so does the "random guy" defense still hold up?

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Portside Athletics Blog

"If Mr. Demerly wanted to relay information to me he should have called me. "

I really cannot believe the controversy. It seems clear that Tom's goal in posting pics wasn't to relay information to the owner- he'd already solved the owner's problem- but to exhort the rest of us to maintain our bikes. I really don't see what the original poster is all up in arms about. His bike was previously anonymous?

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

<<Plus like I care what you or anyone else here thinks of me. So go ahead rip me if you want, I don't really give a shit. >>

Very fitting with your choice of handle! :-)

"But Homer, if we remove the crayon, it could increase your brainpower, or it could kill you"

"Increase my killing power ehhh"

And if one of those so-called "repairs" failed?????? Sorry, can't touch anyone's bike without permission.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

OOOHHHH OOOHHHH I found Spelling errors! Should have been Cuztoomers Whoodunt.

~Matt

Yes, just anonymous pictures of certain portions of his bike.

Sorry, can't touch anyone's bike without permission.

I'm admittedly confused. I thought the original poster took exception to having the pictures posted.

As for what would happen if one of the repairs failed, and not fixing a bike without permission: If I'm going to get charged for a repair, I want the shop to call me and let me know. If the shop is going to fix it gratis, go ahead and fix it.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

You trying to start something with me? This thread could use another subplot.

HH

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

I personally have nothing to gain or lose from this deal. I know neither Tom nor Victorbike, even to the level where I don't really know if Victorbike has a name.

I only know a few of things of fact:

1) Tom owns a bike store and is dependent on customers.

2) Future customers may or may not make a decision to visit Tom's store because of this forum.

3) All people are fallible and are not perfect.

4) Bashing someone because they are fallible is, how to put it lightly, "immature".

Both sides could have done things better. I more or less take offense, not at the pictures being posted, or what Victor posted, but on how everyone is treating the situation by bashing someone they don't know. On any given day, any of us are going to hit a point where we will be in a situation where we will be at our weakest and cause an error. Do you really want anything like that was negatively posted here said to you? If you do, then you should visit a S&M salon more often.

It might differ from person to person, but we all have a breaking point, and it's only a matter of time before it's everyone's turn.

"You have obviously never owned a customer oriented business for yourself, those are the types that generally only come in to test drive and buy elsewhere, or will work you over to the bare bottom price, neither one of which are worth the effort. "

Not sure what your experience is, but I'm directly responsible for roughly 1.2 million customers per week, and I love every one of them. - If their buying elsewhere, that should tell YOU something ;-)

You have an interesting take on customer service - used cars perhaps?

[reply][b]"If Mr. Demerly wanted to relay information to me he should have called me. "[/b]

I really cannot believe the controversy. It seems clear that Tom's goal in posting pics wasn't to relay information to the owner- he'd already solved the owner's problem- but to exhort the rest of us to maintain our bikes. I really don't see what the original poster is all up in arms about. His bike was previously anonymous?[/reply]

So if you go to Walgreens and buy extra small condoms and the Walgreens people post a pic on a forum it would be ok because they are exhorting everyone to buy properly sized condoms?

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______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

So if you go to Walgreens and buy extra small condoms and the Walgreens people post a pic on a forum it would be ok because they are exhorting everyone to buy properly sized condoms?

??? If they posted a pic of my super small condom lying on the counter next to the register, I really do not see that I'd have any grounds to complain.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

So now we are going to personally attack someone who came on the forum to defend himself?

This place seems pretty elitist, he would have missed the cutoff in a race that 99.9% of the population thinks is impossible? You are right, he doesn't deserve to stick up for himself until he has a faster bike split.

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Portside Athletics Blog

"And if one of those so-called "repairs" failed?????? Sorry, can't touch anyone's bike without permission."

________________________________________


That is an extremely important point... I wouldn't want anyone to "work on my bike" without permission, no matter what they do. Imagine sending your luggage on an airplane, and when you arrive and get your luggage back you find that someone had opened your luggage, sorted and folded your clothes in a very neat manner. Would you be happy? I wouldn't. He didn't recieve permission from the customer to work on the bike. If I remember right, he said he called them and they told him not to work on the bikes and to leave them as is.

"So if you go to Walgreens and buy extra small condoms and the Walgreens people post a pic on a forum it would be ok because they are exhorting everyone to buy properly sized condoms?"

They post a picture of the condom and say this doesn't fit most people, buy the right size? Not sure I see the harm to me. I'm not linked to the product.

I liked the dry cleaner analogy someone made earlier. A dry cleaner posts a picture of your pants with an old stain that was never removed. Points out how you need to clean stains better, look at this bad hem job, etc. Wouldn't be happy they posted my stuff, but the only way I am linked to it is if the product is unique and people can figure it out (could happen with a bike) or I "out" myself as the customer.

Victorbike said: "I left my bike at Bikesport to be picked up and shipped by Tri-Bike transport for the Ironman Florida." I could be wrong but I interprete this as VB did not pay anything to Bikesport but rather paid Tri-Bike? Tri-Bike transport must have worked out an arrangement with Bikesport to use their shop as a drop off spot. How does that play into this?!

[reply][b]So if you go to Walgreens and buy extra small condoms and the Walgreens people post a pic on a forum it would be ok because they are exhorting everyone to buy properly sized condoms?[/b]

??? If they posted a pic of my super small condom lying on the counter next to the register, I really do not see that I'd have any grounds to complain.[/reply]

and that pic has things in it that some people could say "hey that's yours"?

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______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

You hardly seemed sincere. Do you "merely point out" to all of your friends before a race, "Boy I hope you don't crash and have to go to the hospital, you would probably miss the bike cutoff"

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Portside Athletics Blog

and that pic has things in it that some people could say "hey that's yours"?

Well, that's why I always buy the extra large super duper condoms. Just in case.

OK, I get your point. I still do not see that the honor of the original poster has been besmirched all that much.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I just don't see how your original comment added anything, plus the guy said he wasn't going to come back to the forum, just wanted to post that and was gone. What you said seemed more like a slam to me, don't know why you would have said that, especially since you clearly think Tom did nothing wrong.


And by the way, it's a good thing for all of us that we don't have mechanical problems, not just this guy. So if you were just generally being a nice guy, make sure you do the same for everyone else, tell everyone after every race report, "Great race, good thing you didn't have any mechanical problems." Because you weren't just singling this guy out and trying to insult him right?

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Portside Athletics Blog

ACRONYM: A Coded Rendition Of Name Yielding Meaning. The ultimate meta-acronym

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"Go yell at an M&M"

ACRONYM: A Coded Rendition Of Name Yielding Meaning. The ultimate meta-acronym.

Damn, I never knew that acronym was an acronym. Thanks.

[reply][b]and that pic has things in it that some people could say "hey that's yours"?[/b]

Well, that's why I always buy the extra large super duper condoms. Just in case.

OK, I get your point. I still do not see that the honor of the original poster has been besmirched all that much.[/reply]

I don't think it's honor as much as trust. If he's willing to post pics of your bike on a forum and then rip you that leads most people to wonder what else they might do. The same as going to a bike shop and hearing the guys in the back talking about what a POS your bike is. It may not hurt your honor but I would have trust issues with that place.

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______________________________________________________

Proud Founder of the Jamis Mafia- Daring to be different.

I think the guy has a right to be pissed. What I dont understand is why Tom is complaining about the conditions of peoples bikes, isnt that his job to find problems and fix them, if everyone took immaculate care of their bikes he would have no work, sheeeeeeeesh

I personally clean and service my own bike, I learned how to do it and I have the time so why not. Plus ive seen a lot of bike shops that charge you for services that were not needed, they make money by telling you that such and such component was broken or something was worn and needs replacing, who are you to argue with them.

It happens everywhere, I remember taking my boat in for servicing and getting slapped with a 2000 dollar maintennance bill just because they said so, well after a couple of those I bought a Chilton manual and worked on the engines myself.

Not everyone has the time to clean their bikes or take it in, they can barely fit in training much less the time to clean a bike, you should have seen Miami79's bike before I cleaned it last week, sheeeeeeesh.

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I have horrible back problems but I have zero problems staying in an aero position for 180k. Why? Because I ride steep and because I train regularly in that position. Simple as that.....Gerard

If he's willing to post pics of your bike on a forum and then rip you that leads most people to wonder what else they might do.

I think he's just oversensitive, really. "Waa! He said my bike was dirty!" I don't think it's at all a matter of wondering what other devious, underhanded behavior that rat Demerly might try to pull. Who knows, though- the bastard might actually clean the bike.

I'm out. Peace.

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"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

I didn't mean to attack you, I just hate when people look down on others because of something like a slow IM bike split, they still completed a f*in Ironman, the whole "you have to be fast to have an opinion" thing is my least favorite part about this sport, sorry if it came out on you.

And maybe you are right, maybe that guy does post here on another name, or maybe he is lurking and tracking who is on his side and who is on Tom D's side and once this thread is done he is going to go take pictures of the bikes of those who sided with Tom D. and post them with red circles around all of their problem areas....


...or maybe Victor??? is Tom D. and he started this whole thing for publicity...conspiracy theories...

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Portside Athletics Blog

So wait, let me get this straight...you cleaned someone's else bike without posting pic's on the website?

That's a pretty novel and interesting way to look at the situation.

Yes, Victor. You're right. What an ass Tom is for cleaning your bike for you, fixing your bar tape and doing all this and other things for free. What an ass indeed.

"My point is, Victorbike is acting lame. My opinion of course. Furthermore, is an insult still an insult if the person to whom it is directed does not receive it? Finally, who is to say he doesn't post here under another name."

Like "Tom Demerly"? :)