Every time I start getting the urge to maybe think about starting a family, I just remember what the malls are like....at Christmas. Turns me right off.

it is easier to have kids than get a drivers liescense (sp) - and think of all the nut jobs out on the roads - the end is near

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http://www.clevetriclub.com

rob reddy

it is easier to have kids than get a drivers liescense (sp)

Not for some of us.

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Steve Perkins

With the extreme sense of calm that you exude as well as your ability to tolerate things out of your control, I bet you were a little angel when you were 4 years old. NOT.

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Don't hold back

You are right... don't have kids. You clearly do not have what it takes.

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"Texas is a state of mind. Texas is an obsession. Above all, Texas is a nation in every sense of the word" - John Steinbeck

You always get the kids you deserve.

we are always reminded of that in stores like wal-mart and target'.

Like I said in a post the other day
VOLUNTARY
HUMAN
EXTINCTION

its the only way.

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Partially-Hydrogenated

I don't have what it take to watch a parent neglect their kids in public? No, I put in the effort it takes to teach my kids what being it is to be a responsible member of society. Not only do I do that I volunteer in my kids schools, teach my sons PE class, coach little league and soccer. I also help with my sister’s kid as she is a single mom and can use a little help once in a while.



What I can’t stand is to watch parents treat kids like objects and not like the greatest gift in the world that they are. If you can’t or will not take care of your kid, don’t have one.



Dave

True story: A good friend of mine was at a store, using her debit card to pay. This kid ran up behind her and started pushing all the buttons. She ended up getting $70 cash back that she didn't want. She turned to the kid's mom (who was on her cell) and said, "Do you think you could keep a closer eye on your kid? I didn't want all this cash back." The mom looked at her and said, "You obviously don't have kids. You have time to go to the bank and deposit that cash." She said, "Yeah, and now I don't want any."

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Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

there is another point to his post and that is that many parents (by no means is what he described isolated) allow kids to run free in public settings with horrible behavior and damn everyone else and their serenity. It is some how acceptable behavior because they are kids or the parents are so used to it that they ignore it or don't even consider it to be bad behavior. It isn't the kids that are the problem but really the parents who are and it is hard not to get frustrated with that attitude.

You always get the kids you deserve.

That's What my mom says everytime my daughter is driving me crazy.........kj

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

To all parents:

1. Discipline your children now so the world won't have to later.

2. Don't be naive enough to believe your flesh and blood cannot be a selfish, manipulative little monster. (All these parents out there who bitch about other kids being so bad likely are promulgating the same problem and suffering from the same naivete).

3. Don't ever let your kid disrespect you. If they don't respect you (read healthy fear), then they're not going to respect anyone.

Get these three things right and you've got all the time in the world to love them and make them upstanding, respectful, responsible people.

BRILLIANT. This should be mandatory reading for all new parents.

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Life isn't measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take your breath away.

Funny, I didn't know my wife was at Target today... :)

I'm getting in the final lap of raising 2 boys (16, 19). I have read you points before but they are so worthy that I have to give a you cyber high 5 for printing them here. Good stuff.

Your tagline is great also.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Well said.

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Adrian in Vancouver

When my kids start to act up in a store, I get mean mom face and tell them I'm not afraid of leaving right then, right now -- no purchases, no nothing. And guess what, I say, you're not going to like being at home with me after that. So be quiet and remember, we're in a public place.

My kids act up in public, I bust their ass when we get home...

The kids you experienced are the reason why youth today are the way they are....no respect for parents, authority, etc. because the parents expect everyone else to raise their kids for them. But try to discipline a kid and watch the parent be the first to say..."how dare you!" Unbelievable

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RunFAR Racing Services
http://www.Run-far.com
Team Cambridge
Hilltop Bicycle Repair

Well said...words to live by for all parents.

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_______________________________

Good athletes train when they want to, great athletes train when they don't......

No, but my parents wouldn't tolerate the behavior, so action was taken. If I acted like the kids Hinds is describing I'd be out in the car. I can't deal with parents who take no responsibilty for their kids!!

Its funny, I get compliments all the time on how well behaved, polite, helpful my daughter is. I can send her out in the world with confidence that she will not embarrass me, I won't get a phone call asking me to pick up my rotten brat. The thing is, she is so far from perfect at home. She can be a total twit. Always getting into stuff she knows she's not supposed to, making messes, terrorizing the cat, whining about whatever. But I would rather have her give me a hard time privately, than have other people thinking "what a monster". People are always offering to babysit because they think she's such an angel......kj

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

Funny I was thinking exactly the opposite. He should have kids as that's exactly what it takes.

Unfortunately many people who think this way prior to having kids suddenly forget all of it when it's *their* kid. Somehow other kids are maniacs and *their* kids are absolute angles. Sorry parents your kids are maniacs just like everyone elses. Keep'em under control or get em out of public...unless you're on a playground or some other "Child maniac" dedicated zone. There is a place and time for kids to be insane...Target ain't that place.

~Matt

"But try to discipline a kid and watch the parent be the first to say..."how dare you!""

Read an interesting article that blames the "angry athlete's parent" syndrome on a similar belief. The author stated the reason that parents get so upset with umpires and referee's is NOT because of a bad call, but because they have the audacity to tell their child what they can and can't do. IOW the parents don't tell their children what to do so NO ONE else can either. If they do the parent is all over them.

~Matt

Same thing happened to me yesterday as I waited in the doctor's office. Mom comes in with a 4 year old and a 2 year old. 4 year old starts hitting 2 year old, he screams. Mom say's stops. 4 year old does it again, 2 year old screams. This goes on for five minutes before the 4 year old gets bored and starts running around the waiting area. 2 yr old joins quickly follows suit. Mom says nothing. 4 yr old decides its funny to stomp on my foot, 2 yr old follows the example. I yelp and tell the little devil child to go play somewhere else. She gets mad and starts to yell. I get the evil eye from Mom. 2 yr old decides he is hungry and starts announcing it at the top of his lungs to everyone. 4 yr old agrees and does the same thing. This probably went on and on but I'll never know. I decided that going to the doctor wasn't worth sitting in the waiting room with a bunch of screaming kids.

If I could I would have put both kids over my knee but a lass they weren't my kids.

It's too bad that there are so many out of control kids with bad parents. It makes raising your own child that much harder. And parents can't smack their kids around like they use to back in the day. Without several blows to the head (daily) by my parents - I would be one of them! I see animals at the zoo that have more self control than these brats today! I think that they should have "no-children allowed" days at restaurants and shopping malls. Ok parents - tear into me....

the thing i hate are parents that complain how tired they are or how they are so busy all the time with kids. the constant complaining and blaming it on their young child. the decision to have kids was there's(in most cases) not another person's. don't decide on something and then complain about it. its a simple issue.. jr

I bet when you were a child, that was never written about you.

And no, my children don't "swarm all over the place..." and we aren't "neglectful parents," either. I'm just writing to ask you to look in the mirror and worry about your own children.

Let those who wish to "go ape shit" - do it on their own. You've got hunger and cancer to cure before COB today. Now get moving.

Peace,

- kd

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kestrel driver


DonorsChoose.org (!!!)
bogolight.com (!!!)

Right on!

Absolutely no "Tearing into" by this parent. Hell I wish they'd have no kids days at some resturaunts. For the most part we try and keep our kid(s) under control in public, but even the best parents will have one fly off the handle now and then. However the best parents will remove the outa control kid from the public place prompty....still ruins a nice quite evening out though.

If shopping malls had "no kids days" they'd probably go broke though. 90% of teh people there are under 12....and they likely have most of the money as well.

~Matt

And what are you doing to solve world hunger?

Every kid has moments when they shouldn't be in public. They are too tired, hungry, hopped up on suger, etc. As a parent you have the responsibility to either a.) remove them from that environment or b.) discipline them. All we're asking is for parents to do their jobs.

God damn am I tired....kid kept getting up all night...

Seriously though this logic always beffudles me. Don't complain about getting injured running...it was your choice to run, Don't complain about it being hot outside...it was your choice to go outside...don't complain about kids in teh resturaunt...it was your choice to go to the resturaunt....Don't complain about taxes...it was choice to live in the country you live in....I could go on but hopefully you get my point.

Your logic leads to the enevitable point of DON'T complain because you can almost always do something about the situation and almost every situation you're in has at least partially occured because a choice on your part.

~Matt

Since I can't cure cancer or solve world hunger, I am going to build a shopping mall called "Keep your hellish offspring the hell away from my calm peacefull mall" Mall.

i understand what your saying, but think about how many folks complain about their kids and then say "but it's the greatest thing." some people shouldnt have had kids and i don't think they thought about the outcome. on the flip side it's nice to see a happy family with well-mannered kids.

why are you putting this shit on all of us? dude, come on. maybe you're a great parent, but God--your post feels like such an attack. get off your high horse. you ain't perfect buddy...when your kids flip out and act like wackos maybe you'll get a piece of humble pie.

Actually, although hard to do, not sure it is bad logic as complaining about that type of stuff rarely gets you anywhere. Don't get me wrong I complain like everyone but complaining about circumstances you created is generally a waste of time. It is probably a good way to try to live :)

Where did you see that? On some black and white TV show?

Yes, I totally agree that it sucks when you see parents not doing a damn thing (I hate that as well).



However, I am getting a feeling that some here are eluding a fallacy to that you can control a 2 year old all the time if you are a good parent or if you want to. Kids at that age are still learning to control their emotions. I think one person even said all it takes is “daily beatings to the head”. Anyone that would beat a 2 year old in the head for acting like a 2 year old is just wrong.

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Don't hold back

Come on kittycat - join the "down with kids" bandwagon. It's fun (until we have them).

"ctually, although hard to do, not sure it is bad logic..." no my logic was not bad. My point was that the Don't complain about your kids leads to don't complain about anything. This of course leads to not just singling out "I hate when people complain about their kids" to "I hate when people complain"

I agree complaining leads to no good...usually. Changing circumstances or making better choices is a better alternative. However complaining about someone complaining because they complained about a certain thing is ironic in itself...as ....well....yeh...

~Matt

Maybe he meant to say "giving birth to a child is as painfull as doing an Ironman".

No one here is advocating beating a two year (except for beehunter :). You're right to say that they are still learning to control their emotions. I think we all understand that but what I don't get is why the parents don't do something, anything, please!!!

Whether it's talking to the kid, spanking them, removing them from the situation, leaving them at home, etc. Anything is better than nothing. That is what bothers me.

Yeh and how many people complain about being injured on this forum?

I agree some, likely alot of folks shouldn't have kids and most don't think about the results of their actions. But then again ALOT of people complain about ALOT of shit that is mostly their own fault.

~Matt

Fair enough...

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Don't hold back

Diet Coke is poison. You might as buy people at work cigarettes.

I agree on the kids, but half the problem is the non-stop sugar diet they are fed. Take a survey of what they ate that day something like:
- sugar cereal for breakfast
- sugar drinks
- cand
- ice cream
- pop, LOTS OF POP
the list goes. I see bratty little kids being fed this shit all the time by parents in an attempt to award thier kids to behave. ADD? Try TMSD (too much sugar disorder).

Get the kids off sugar and they'll be a helluva lot calmer.

For one thing, I don't tell others how to raise their kids. As a parent, my responsibility is to my children alone, and not every other kid running amok.

So what?

Let kids be kids for once.

Wasn't it fun when you were a kid riding your Schwinn 'StingRay' with the baseball cards in the spokes, laughing with your buddies until sundown? Wasn't it fun back in the old-days playing 'capture the flag' or being a Scout with your best friends? Didn't you fall out of a tree, skin your knee running home to Mom and Dad who cleaned you up, sending you out to play once again?

If 'kids got to be kids' once again, maybe things would change. Unfortunately, to debate that subject on this medium is really - trying.

Peace,

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kestrel driver


DonorsChoose.org (!!!)
bogolight.com (!!!)

Anyone notice that this thread sounds eerily similar to a "Responsibility of dog owners" thread??

Before anyone gets pissy, no I'm not equating kids to dogs. Some kids maybe. Especially the ones who walk on all fours and have a tail. No wait... it's the furry ones I'm talking about. I mean, it's gotta be your dog. I have derailed.

You missed the point. I'm not telling you how to raise your kids. My post was general and you took it personally. Take a step back and get some perspective.

All the childhood reminiscences examples that you listed were outside fun kid activities. Things I don't have anything against. Moments when kids are supposed to be kids. No one is expecting them to act like mild mannered adults in any of those scenarios. We're talking about in public places such as Target, Kroger, the Mall. What I see so many time is that the kid is having a melt down for whatever reason and Mom just ignores them. I'm just asking that the person responsible for the kid do something (anything) other than nothing. I really don't care what form it takes, just don't ignore the situation.

I think this whole thread went the wrong way. How come no one is smacking Hinds for going to Target to buy Diet Coke?

You had to be insane in the first place. You werent in your right mind, so of course the kids bugged ya.

Next time try 7-11. Get in, get out, get on with your life! <whatever>

Just thought I'd try and get this back on track. ;>

What's "hinds"? LOL :) Diet Coke = Evil

Often when you see a small kid having a meltdown, it is due to the idiot parent taking them to Walmart or the mall or the movie theatre at 9:00 at night when they should be in bed. Little kids need a lot of sleep and structure and when they get tired, they go off like a bomb.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Dude, my GF would say you are talking about me:) No sleep or no eat makes me cranky like a 4 year old :)

Nothing personal at all (honest).

I only posted to the sort that I just can't see others telling parents how to control their kids when in public places.

(Of course, I should add this: I actually told a parent to keep their 'crumb-crushing, ankle-biting, little bastard of a child' under control before I spanked him myself.. and I nearly got my ass kicked by the 'Mom (??)' - 5' 6" all 300# plus, with solid right cross - in the Bx Shopping Lot of Maxwell AFB, AL).

I've been 'scarred' ever since.

- kd

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kestrel driver


DonorsChoose.org (!!!)
bogolight.com (!!!)

"Nothing personal at all (honest)." :)

‘why are you putting this shit on all of us? dude, come on. maybe you're a great parent, but God--your post feels like such an attack. get off your high horse. you ain't perfect buddy...when your kids flip out and act like wackos maybe you'll get a piece of humble pie”.

My response was to the person who read my post and said I should not have kids. When my kids act up (and they do) I climb off my high horse, come down to their level and make sure they understand that their behavior is out of line. I will make sure they know what is expected and what the consequences will be if the inappropriate behavior does not change. If their behavior does not change the consequences will come right then and their and they know it.

My original point (now hopelessly lost) was about parents who do absolutely nothing to correct the out of control behavior of their children in public. In Target today it was not the exception, it was the rule. The parents just totally ignored their kids. This one lady with 4 kids is the best example. I am looking at zone bars (see not just diet coke). She is next to me on her cell phone just blabbing away about nothing and not looking at any of her kids ages 3 to 7. One is pulling things off the shelves, two are fighting and the 4th is doing an all out Napoleon Dynamite solo dance in the intersection of the 2 major isles blocking all carts from any forward progress. The dance was cool I must admit. This went on for quite a while and she never even looked at the riot her kids were causing. The 2 kids were really hitting each other hard enough to do some damage and screaming at the top of their lungs. Hell her kids could have been abducted and she would have never noticed. She never stoped talking and never even looked at her kids for the several minutes I was there.

So, back to my original point about people having children when they are not sure if they want them.

“They are not pets, they are not plants, they are not finishers medals to show off to your friends, they are little humans and if you don’t put in the time and work they will end up being out of control little assholes and you will be 100% responsible”.

Dave

I think this whole thread went the wrong way. How come no one is smacking Hinds for going to Target to buy Diet Coke?

You had to be insane in the first place. You werent in your right mind, so of course the kids bugged ya.

Next time try 7-11. Get in, get out, get on with your life! <whatever>

Just thought I'd try and get this back on track. ;>

Nice try PacaMan but I think all is lost at this point. I will not be going to Target Walnut Creek any time soon. Thank god my wife likes to shop becaus I, as all can now see, can't take it.

Dave

Okay, I haven't read the other replies, so I may be repeating what some one else is saying but...

YOU WERE IN TARGET! Expect that kind of thing. The only place worse is Wal-Mart. These stores just seem to attract the "undesirable element" of society.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

""YOU WERE IN TARGET! Expect that kind of thing. The only place worse is Wal-Mart. These stores just seem to attract the "undesirable element" of society""

Why should anyone have to expect that behavior out of the little rug rats? Or make the excuse that your in Target, Wal Mart, Toys are Us etc. I don't care if you in Target or the doctor's office. Acceptable behavior is having authority enough over your kids to make sure they are not disturbing others as they shop or wait. It's the parents responsibility to control their kids so that they are not interfering with everyone else. Kids are a choice orthe result of a choice, if you choose to have kids you need to be a responsible parent and instill behaviors and manners appropiate to the situation. Running amuk is not the proper behavior, unless your in the park(ing lot, just kidding) or something.

All kids could probably use a good whooping once in a while, that whole talking to a 4 yr old trying to reason stuff or you might end up in timeout doesn't work much from what I've seen.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

You are expecting every one to comply with your level of social responsibility. We are living in the first full-welfare state. Meaning this: the kids now are being brought up by the first generation that has known nothing but welfare.

These stores attract low-income folks. The people who are after the lowest proce regardless of quality. That's just the way it is. And they tend to be the worst behaved. Both the children AND the parents (where do you think the children learn it?). Yes, I could point to a dozen contrary examples on both sides of the income spectrum, but by and large, that's the way it is.

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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Wow! Talk about being an elitist! My guess is there is at least 40-50 million undesirable elements shopping in these stores every week. Good thing you are so far above the rest of us poor slobs that actually watch our pennies and shop there.

No I'm expecting people to actually take the time to get involved with their kids and be parents instead of friends or whatever parents do these days. I understand your thoughts and feelings though, and can see your point of view, but still feel that if I were to have a kid, my responsibility is to give the child a framework that allows him to have fun and be aware of what is going on in the surroundings and how his actions may or may not enhance someone else's day. Or if being a big brat or bratette remove the kid from the situation or remove the situation from him. Not ignore him.

My question would be, is it acceptable to encourage a parent to enforce some sort of corrective action when jr is being dickhead? I usually hint to the parent that I'm about to run jr over with the shopping cart, give the parent 3 secs to do something before I run him over. ( NO I don't usually run over kids with shoppping carts, only one so far, I usually try to squeeze past nudging them gently aside as I shake my head and glare at the parents, who should be the one's I run over. Will try that at the grocery store in 30min)

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Okay, first off, I shop there myself. So I guess I'm talking about myself, eh? As I stated in my other reply, the stores themselves attract the lower income brackets, which tend to have the behavior problems. Yes, we could all point to exceptions 'til we're blue in the face, on both sides of the spectrum, but the overall demographics don't lie. Yes, the stores do well because they cater to those masses. Doesn't change the problems that those masses tend to have...

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

For sure diet is part of the equation, and not just sugar. Kids (and adults) can have sensitivities to all kinds of stuff (wheat, soy, eggs, dairy, etc.). But too many people focus on one thing or another, ie diet or discipline or sleep. I have a friend who has an absolutely adorable 3 y/o. He is also a menace to society. He has actually been kicked out of preschool. My friend is very into the touchy feely neo psychology read about how to be a parent phenonena. Her older daughter is the same age as my daughter, and although not nearly as "active" ie "rotten" as her brother, she still pushes the limits. y freind has taken the boy to a new doctor who did a test and ran off a list of foods he should not eat. Thats all well and good, but in all the time I've spent with them (considerable) I have yet to see her or her husband actually discipline either kid. They ask them to stop, they get exasperated, they give up. No consequences. As my earlier post states, my daughter is no angel, but she behaves in public and when in the care of other people. A friend recently said to me "I don't know what you're doing, but you're definately doing something right". What I'm (and many others are) doing is not rocket science. Kids understand cause and effect. Consequences and follow through. I have absolutely no problem letting her scream and cry and not give into her, I do not allow her to inflict this behaviour on others. Pick your battles, if its not something you feel strong enough to stick with, then hand it over to begin with so as not to go back on your word. Kids are smart and manipulative, you have to beat them at their own game...kj

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Awww, Katy's not all THAT evil. Only slightly evil. In a good way. - JasoninHalifax

I agree with you completely. That is how things SHOULD be. But that is NOT how they are. Can't be the parent of the whole world...

Now when it comes to the play areas at the malls, I have no problem whatsoever telling kids to behave, stop doing whatever it is that's hurting other kids, stop bullying, whatever. And I also have no problem telling the parent that's been yakking on the phone the whole time (or otherwise ignoring the situation) EXACTLY what their child is doing, and suggesting that they remove them from the area. I've all but taken the phone from them at times.

Have I angered some of the parents? Most definitely. And I'm sure they blame me (another symptom of the greater problem). Fine, I can deal with that. I also know that I won't let my child be subjected to their behavior, and it gives her a very clear message that I won't tolerate it from her either.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Please supply your references (i.e., proof) these "stores themselves attract the lower income brackets, which tend to have the behavior problems."

Otherwise, this is a gross generalization "those masses tend to have..."

- kd

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kestrel driver


DonorsChoose.org (!!!)
bogolight.com (!!!)

Whatever.

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

But do the kids get the parents they deserve?

Kids are the worst.

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"Texas is a state of mind. Texas is an obsession. Above all, Texas is a nation in every sense of the word" - John Steinbeck

Oh, and just so you know, the "undesireable elements" was a reference to a comment made by Jesse Helms when he found out about a Beach Boys concert, saying that he opposd the concert because it "attracted the undesireable elements".

Of course, when the Beach Boys came on stage, their greeting was "Welcome all you undesireable elements."

My guess is you're too young to remember that.

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---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

Just for the record. I was in Target today and there were plenty of undesirable elements. However, they had cheap dog food and a bottle of 100 anti-gas tablets for $2.59 so I roughed it.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Did they have ticket stubs from the concert? ;^)

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Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/

 Here are the incomes of shoppers. I have no kids, I figure I pay enough in taxes supporting other peoples kids.

And, according to consultancy A.T. Kearney, the typical Target shopper has an average income of more than $50,000, compared with that of about $30,000 for a typical Wal-Mart shopper.

Yes!

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man

Not in English.

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_________________________________
I'll be what I am
A solitary man