I'm excited to see him race in some real ITU stuff.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Nice picture of three terrific US Oly athletes: Alan Webb, Ben Kanute and Chad Hall (uh, pretty good running genes in his family - and his legs - too!). Very impressive outing by all three today; and, I particularly liked their clear love of the sport. Good things ahead!

Looks like he was first out of the water.

Dude is LEGIT

I guess USAT is making him actually earn his pro card. thats bogus. let the dude jump into the pro field.

If they are paying your bills, you'll do whatever they tell you to do, right?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

This is going to be fun to follow.

oh its like that?!

He is training with the HPT staff in Arizona, so I'm going to assume their is some funding being provided. I certainly don't think they are billing him for his time there, that's for sure.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Not sure how this is making him earn his pro card. Normally you actually have to race in races with a pro field to earn your card sans a few other other key opportunities.

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when pack riding is part of the sport, it is not crazy to make someone earn their way up, no matter how fast they are.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

While I agree there should be some sort of 'celebrity exemption' for pro cards because of people like this-It isn't like it should take him a ton of races to get credibility if he's in good shape and committed, given he has previous swimming experience and he's already proven to be world class in one discipline.

I couldn't agree more. Also, if he is that good he should be one and done anyway. All he has to do is go to a pro race of 20K or more, smash the amateur field and he is golden. Giving him the card is just doing him, USAT, and the USA a disservice. Based on his bike split compared to some known benchmarks in that local sprint race I would say he has a lot of work to do on his bike.

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Assuming everyone was racing hard, coming out of the water ahead of Kanute would be a really encouraging sign...

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Does this race qualify him? I was told by some coaches that this was the race they were going for to qualify for the elite card. Which I was kinda taken aback in that I was shocked USAT was going to actually make him go through the qualifying process. But it made sense since he hasn't raced a small level ITU CC just yet.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

It isn't about credibility, it is about gaining proficiency at riding in a pack so he is less likely to hurt someone else. It has almost no negative impact on him to have to do a few races first, with big potential upside for the other racers.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Well if the case is for DL pack riding experience, racing non-draft does nothing to accomplish those objectives. In reality, he would have like 4 chances to race DL racing and gain his pro card, and 2 of them have already passed (there is a race in Seattle in late June and Detroit middle of Aug that are elite qualifiers that are draft legal).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Oh well then it is mostly senseless.
Except of course it is usually best for these things to be mechanistic otherwise they can be corrupted.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Webb raced the sprint and Kanute the Olympic distance I believe.

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http://www.danfeeneyracing.com

This result will qualify Alan for his pro card. From the USAT Elite Qualification Standards:

"Applying athlete has been on a USA Swimming, USA Cycling, or USA Track and Field Olympic or Pan American Games Team or National Elite Team (recognized by that NGB). The athlete must have finished in the top ten overall and within 10% of the overall winner’s time in at least one (1) USAT sanctioned event having at least 200 participants that occurred within the past 12 months."

Having competed at the World Championships and Olympics, under the auspices of USATF, he certainly qualifies for this special consideration. It, finally, goes to a Committee to decide.

Yup - Hall was 2nd to Webb in the sprint. Results are up now: http://www.marqueetri.com/marquee/results/

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

very nice

The results page seems to be blank for me.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

This is not so bad for only 5 weeks of cycle training. Still- I am not going to put him on my ITU fantasy podium for later this season.

Tom- lets assume that this result reflects 5 weeks of bike training. (Not some other technical problem).
How long would it take someone with bike talent, to go from says 23.73 mph on a course like this to say 26.73 mph?

Where are you hearing he's only been bike training for 5 weeks? I think this is a race on more than 5 weeks of training for sure.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Depends on his position and bike equipment. Might take 1 day =)

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I don't know what the course was like, but lets assume gentle rollers, and let's assuming a CDA of .23, 65kg

that would be 228 watts to go 23.7mph

to go 26.73 would be 298.1 watts

But maybe his cda is actually much worse and can be improved.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

It was fairly flat with pretty good roads but there were lots of turns and lots of traffic. Little bit of wind out there, especially when he would've been on the bike.

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speedySTATES

Just for some numbers from collegiate nats that was 1 week earlier, and the collegiate kids did an Olympic, but Ian Boggs who won the DL event on Friday rode the Olympic (36k) on probably nearly the same roads as today went 25.5 mph. Out of the 1st page of the top 36, only 6 riders didn't break 25mph for the Olympic distance.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

His last run race was only a couple of months ago.

I know and race against some of the other people in that field. Deuces Wild Tri last year had a number of the same people that were in this race. This allows me to make a guestimate as to what a pro like Lewis Elliot or Tom Gerlach might have done on that course. What I don't know is what Gomez or Brownlee might have done.

The 5 week thing is a guess at the level of training that would be needed for a world class athlete to produce that kind of bike split. (I initially guessed 7 weeks but I want to view the split more favorably). There may be some other explanation.

FWIW-

242AP/248NP with a tested CdA between .23 and .24 put me at 24.1mph on the Leadman course which is same loop with slight addition. Flat but lots of turns and a decent amount of traffic at times.

Who knows how hard he was going on the bike. Based on the results, there were a few guys close to him coming out of the water. He outsplit them both on the bike, so at that point he's out there by himself. I assume he's pretty confident he can outrun anyone in the field, so perhaps he does just enough to be first into T2 and saves those matches for later.

Or maybe he killed himself on the bike to get that number and barely held on to finish the run ahead of Hall. Maybe he went so deep into the pain cave he'll quit triathlon forever.

Hard to say when just looking at numbers, but I hope for the first scenario. I know the current US guys are very talented and I'm sure our guys all train immensely hard, but as a fan I would love to see someone from the US who is a credible threat to medal if they come into T2 with the lead pack.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I suspect he can increase his FTP by 1 percent every 2 weeks for the next several months.

Interesting to me is the fact that he outsplit a HS kid who was 4:40 in the 500 free (in 2014). I think we can almost put to rest the question about him being able to come out with the first pack in a legit ITU race (on the swim).

Not a reply to only Jack because he knows this already.

I don't think there's any question Alan will be fine on the bike. He has a MONSTER ENGINE.....quite arguably as big or bigger than anyone in the history of triathlon. He may never be an uber biker, but he doesn't have to be. It looks like his swim is fine and he's he's a faster runner than anyone in triathlon. And ya he was a miler, but he also ran 27:34 for 10K. That's what....a minute faster than Alistar Brownlee's PR?

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

Interesting to see how the discussions keep switching over the years so quickly. Potts, Kemper, Shoemaker, Reed, Manny, Lukas V, now Webb. So it seems Lukas is on the down & backslide of the next American ITU hope now? Wonder who it'll be a year from now...

Webb is a big deal to many of us that are runners (or runners turned triathletes). He's been a hero to many for years. He's quite possibly the fastest clean miler ever born. Quite possibly the largest white endurance engine ever born....and near the top for anyone ever. It's too bad he didn't tri earlier. Too bad for triathon anyway (not too bad for him I'm sure).

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24 Hour World TT Champs-American record holder
Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
Insta: chris.s.apex

Being fine on the bike to stay with the pack into T2 and then being fine to stay with the pack and contend on the run are 2 completely different things. There are usually 40 guys that can easily stay with the pack in pretty much any standard ITU race (taking out any of the more harder structured bike courses). But it's a completely different ball game to then run with the leaders. It's amazing that 25-40 guys will come into T2 and by 500m, it's already down to a 5 man race and then by 2k into the run, the top 3 has already broken away and the medals have been decided.

So let's just see what he does off the bike after swimming and biking with the front pack, because saying he's the fastest runner in triathlon right now is sorta up in the air (it sorta doesn't matter if he cant actually be the fastest runner and contend). He still has to get to the run without burning a lot of matches, and that's yet to be decided. I think he's got some potential, but putting it together at the WTS level is a whole different ball game, and I guess we'll wait and see what happens.

If I was his camp, I'd put him in at Ixtapa CC in Mexico on 5/24/14. The one event I think he would absolutely do well in is the Tiszaujvaros ITU race in Hungary that has semifinal and finals, back to back days. That would be a fantastic event to get him a lot of experience and it's shorter so his speed can come into play more.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I don't think that's unique to the US or to the sport of triathlon in general. In running, cycling, football, baseball there's always discussion of up and coming athletes...

It's also not mutually exclusive, people can be interested in Webb, Verzbicas, and the crop of younger guys coming up simultaneously.

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___________________
Twitter | Kancman | Blog

Awesome. Can't wait to see how his career unfolds.

I was in the sprint race in the same wave with Webb, so maybe I can help shed a little light on race. The swim was probably a tiny bit long, but im not sure about that. Webb exited the water with one athlete who usually swims alot faster than his times suggested yesterday. The bike course was 14 miles and mostly flat but fairly technical. It is a similar course to collegiate nationals, but it is not the same. The bike loop is significantly longer. Lots of turns and tons of traffic. I was blocked and had to slow for riders many times. I out-split Webb on the bike and rode 24.3 at 279W. My NP was around 300W because of the constant coasting into turns and etc. Webb rode a relatively solid bike, but at the times I saw him on course, he didnt appear to be pushing incredibly hard. Webb was riding a blue AC1 road bike with basebar//TT cockpit on it. Run course was flat and seemed to be close to the correct distance. I was impressed with Webb's swim more than anything. Hope that helps.

Thx, nice summary. Webb's biggest ally might be that swim speed. IF he can make the front pack, that in itself cuts out 2/3rds of the other American Olympic hopefuls, and obviously no other American will likely be able to run with him. But it's still a different ball game all together of being able to compete at the WTS level, but if he can make it to T2 in the front pack, he's going to finish top 15 for sure, which I don't know that we can say for many other Americans at this point. Still a lot to be decided, should be fun to see where the chips fall.

I don't think the US Olympic qualifying standard has been set just yet, but I'll be curious to see if any "automatically" qualifies, even with the US's *weaker* standards compared to some other countries.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

That 27:34 is from 2006.

The 10:56 for 750 m equals about 11:40 for 800 m, which is a bit slow for a top tri swimmer. From what I've read of his swim prowess, I would think Webb could go around 9:00 for 800 m in a long course (50 m) pool, or around 9:30-ish for an accurately measured 800 m in OW, or about 8:55 for 750 m in OW. So, that course might have been around 2 minutes or so long.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Again I already pointed this out: the kid who went 10:57 (presumably in his wave) went 4:40 in the 500 yard free this February. No other baseline is really needed.

I would agree that swim times appeared to be roughly 1-2 minutes longer than would be expected of most of the people that I knew (including myself).

Agreed:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I also believe that T1 times are included into the swim times on the posted results. This also includes a 200m'ish run into transition. This may account for some of the swim time length. Hope that helps.

Ahhh, now we're seeing the real explanation, this makes perfect sense since I noticed there was no T1 time but that they do list a T2 time. So, do you think Webb's 10:56 split was prob around 9:20-ish actual swim time???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

There were fast swimmers in that race that Webb beat. There were also "not fast" swimmers in the race, that Webb beat by less than one would expect. Personally, I think the swim result DOES shows that Webb is NOT a slow swimmer. But I feel it is a stetch to argue that this proves he is ITU "fast" (at least yet).

Here is some speculation: The swim contains either an exit or an entrance that costs time, and the Sprint course is additionally long. Let's say Sprint is 2 minutes long and Olympic is 1:15 long. Ben Kanute did the Olympic in 18:51. A feat that would be about 17:36. Webb did the Sprint in 10:56. A feat that would be 8:56- or doubling up to about 18:10. ( Or 19:30, if he were racing Kanute in the Olympic distance race yesterday).
My guess is that he is thus still 40 or so seconds off a front pack ITU swim.

Just too make wild speculation and annoy everyone. I am going to put all Webb's splits from yesterday into a 5k running equivalent estimates:

Swim- equivalent to a 16:30 5 km.
Bike- equivalent to a 18:30 5 km.
Run- equivalent to a 15:20 5 km (it was a little hot and a little windy yesterday).

Not sure exactly how much time that accounts for. The T1 times for the Olympic distance athletes are shown and should be roughly comparable. I still believe the swim may have been a hair long as well, but the bulk of the time certainly takes transition into consideration. I believe that the real takeaway is that the actual swim time itself is not an accurate indicator.

http://www.marqueetri.com/marquee/2014-results/#raceid=338585&gender=A&page=1&courseid=494393

Only five months after announcing his retirement from track and field, Alan Webb seems to be settling well into his new sport—triathlon. The former track star, who holds the American record for the mile (3:46), won this morning’s Life Time Marquee sprint triathlon in Tempe, Ariz.
“That hurt,” Webb gasped at the finish line, “but I feel awesome.”
Webb completed the 750-meter swim in 10:56, exiting the water with training partner and USA Triathlon Recruit Chad Hall. The two would play a game of cat and mouse on the bike, with Hall besting Webb’s 14-mile bike split of 35:23 by only a few seconds. Webb, however, caught Hall in the early meters of the run and exploded through the 3.1-mile run course in 15:54. Webb won with a total time of 1:03:01.
“I’ve been training with Chad and the USAT guys here in Phoenix, so I kind of knew what to expect from them,” said Webb, “When I saw Chad right behind me on the first turn of the bike, I was like, ‘oh, man.’ I knew I was going to have to work hard.”
Though Webb is delighted to have made such a victorious debut in the sport, he acknowledges he still has a lot to learn: “I haven’t done a lot in aero position, and I know I need to get better at that. But it’s been great to learn this sport.”
At the moment, Webb does not know what his next race will be; however, he is enthusiastic about his future in the sport. “Now that I got through this first race, I’m excited to see what’s next.”

Read more at http://triathlon.competitor.com/...#203ISLfLhSy0vi2q.99

Yeah, I don't get this. You're spanning 4 Olympics on that list (3 without Hunter). Why not get excited about Webb? I'm still excited about the possibility of Lukas as well - I'd guess he can still grow on the swim and bike, especially recovering from the injury.

Goal 1 is just getting the points to get 3 doods to Rio.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Steve Cram has a faster mile time than Alan Webb...as clean an athlete as you are ever likely to have faith in being. 'Largest white endurance engine'...hmmmm, how about Kilian Jornet (ran a marathon over the top of Mt Blanc (Courmayer to Chamonix, 42km, 12500ft elevation gain) in 8hr 42min...yes, ran, and a VO2 max of 92, or any number of cross-country skiers (e.g. Bjorn Daehlie, VO2 max 96ml/min/kg), cyclists (yeah, 'clean' maybe an issue), rowers, etc. All these guys are white and have engines arguably bigger than Webb...whose best distance took him less than 4 min to complete. I haven't read anything that suggest Webb has an exceptional engine. What's the evidence?

Additional point...Webb ran a 13:37 5K last year on the track whilst still a runner. That equates to a 28:23 10K (and a 4:06 mile in Feb = 28:26 10K). Well, AB ran 28:32 (a week after the San Diego WTS race) on the track whilst a triathlete early last year and is going to be doing another 10K track race on May 10th. I think that AB will actually be faster than Webb as a runner let alone a triathlete, on current form.

dude looks older than Tinley in that picture.