a few seconds

more detail than that really isn't possible, since it becomes frame dependent and stuff.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I mean when I think about that if the world time trial champion isn't concerned with it I probably shouldn't sweat over it either. Man jackmott you were all over that. I think not even a minute after I posted that you responded. Thank you

the world time trial champion might be using what his teams tells him to use too.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

See I thought that too but the Schlecks like to use the camelbak.

Where do you think the batteries for Fabian's Motor go... ;)

Really though, guys like David Millar are the one's that put a lot of detail in their bike setup.

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

an aerowater bottle vs no water bottle costs me up to 32sec in a 40k on my bike

jackmott, i give you credit for posting a huge volume of sound, rational analysis on the boards here and especially for continuing to do it in the face of what are by now the predictable rebuttals, most of which don't seem to be motivated by a desire for constructive debate.

The subject of water bottle aerodynamics intrigues me. It's clear that some set-ups create less drag than others. What interests me most is the total impact of the bottle set-up. i.e. one bottle cage between the aerobars is probably the lest costly setup in terms of drag. But, the rider then has to slow down to exchange bottles multiple times. Bottles behind the seat incur the cost of sitting up to grab and put back the bottle. The bottle and straw between the aerobars or the Speedfill setup seems to require the least time out of the most aerodynamic riding position and could also create benefits from making it easier to regularly take some nutrition because it's just a matter of drinking from the straw in front of the rider's face.

So the question is:
How do you think the time costs of sitting up to grab a bottle and drink or slowing down to exchange bottles compares to the time benefits of the most aerodynamic bottle set-up?
This question can probably only be answered subjectively with an opinion based on experience because of all the variables involved. I value some opinions more than others. So, what say you?

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"on downhill bits I can sometimes attack without pedaling =)

it is the uphill bits that are hard though" Jackmott

You're 32 sec. slower with the bottle? Dang, I think I need to start removing my cage for sprints. Half the time I forget the bottle on there.

I haven't done crowded races with handups, some here have pointed out that you may have to come nearly to a complete stop at aid stations in those races to get more fluid. that would be bad!

So it sounds like "it depends".

If handups are going to be slow, it definitely gets tricky. How many bottles do you need to finish a half? 2? 3? depends how hot it is and how big you are. you could go go with one between the arms, an aero bottle on the frame, and a bottle behind the seat, centrally located. As soon as you finish the bottle up front you could toss it at an aid station and move the rear bottle to the front, so that you can drink from it easier.

if 3 bottles lets you finish a half without having to grab a handup, that could be a fast overall setup.

a speedfil might be a simpler overall solution with the same effect, it looks like it holds quite a lot.

keep the straw short!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

the cage is usually just as bad whether a bottle is in it or not according to Cote

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I bought the Chrono also, and then stopped using it after a coupla rides - I've gone back to a traditional bottle/cage on the downtube.

1.) convenience - regular bottles are cheap to replace & swap easy both training & racing. 2.) I'm a Camelbak Podium valve junkie now. That valve design has forever ruined all other bottles for me.

Cheers, Chris

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Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball

yeah, that 32sec was bottle and cage(arundel) vs nothing at 10deg, 8sec at 0 deg

I was all for the aero water bottle until last weekend when I lost my profile razor bottle the night before a 70.3.

I only have one other bottle on my bike (between the bars) and I went to the race thinking that was my only bottle, so I ditched my nutrition plan (perpetuem is usually in my aero bottle, but I have to have a regular water bottle for that setup).

So long story short, when traveling to races that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. Use something that can easily be replaced. Or bring plenty of spares. However from now on my race setup is going to be more travel friendly.

YMMV

plus some of the aero water bottles have a tendency to pop out.

I lost (arundel) one during a road race, it could have caused a crash. just a stupid stupid stupid.

I've seen sergio lose his arundel on a bump too.

this is why I'm a fan of the between-the-arms normal bottle setup for tris. Normal bottles, so much less hassle.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

So in something short like an Oly it's been pretty clear that a standard bottle in a cage rigged between the aerobars tends to be the best choice. One bottle should be all you need for that short of a race. But I'm assuming that is based on the frame being a aero tribike frame. Since I'm using a round tubed road bike with clip-ons would a bottle like the profile design actually improve my aerodynamics by changing the leading edge of the bike?

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unless you don't have room there without some special contraption. :)

How about an Arundel between the aerobars?

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could be
keep that straw short!

I have a round tube head tube as well, I don't want to use the profile design style setups for other convenience reasons though.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

worth a try! might pop out even easier up there!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

LOL! Too true. But maybe I can catch it in my teeth.

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what are you guys doing to the cages? after 3 years, mine is still quite snug, though i am on bottle two, as the first one eventually cracked at one of the creases.

i was going to mount it on top tube behind stem/cables, but found that it was too wide for my knees to avoid while pedalling. i am therefore sans bottle at 40k and under

I think I'm just going to stick with round bottle on the seat tube and try to get it low. I mean the air flow in that area is already turbulent due to legs and pedals moving about. Can't be giving up that much with that position.

Nope, they use the camelfront...

see my losses as stated above regarding an aero bottle

where did you have your round bottle positioned?

iirc, this was faster than on the down tube when the MIT team tested a few years ago. It was faster than no bottle, too. But the test didn't address time loss due to reaching for it.

i only use a round bottle in training.

i tested an arundel on the seattube of my DA, slower than no bottle across the board for me and as yaw increased, it got worse. as a result, i TT sans bottle. when needed(for extremely hot conditions or a 50 or 60km TTT, i will install the arundel on seatube.

i may go will a gel flask of water near the back of the stem, if I can get it out of the way enough and not interfere with u-turns

I agree that it can get tricky.

I think the best thing someone can do is be perfectly honest with themselves. How are your bike handling skills? Are you really going to have to slow down at an aid station to get a bottle? Perhaps even stop? How long do you actually stay in aero? Are you gonna come out of aero to climb the hills? That would be a good time to grab a drink....etc etc etc. So many personal factors that I would look at and weigh carefully. Another obviously being, do you care about the time savings vs what you are comfortable with?

For me, I use the P4 water bottle with just water in it and one between the bars with Gatorade. I exchange the one bottle between the bars once in a half. I don't race IM btw. That is fine for me unless the race is extremely hot. Plus 3-4 Gu's in my Trisuit. I use the P4 bottle to wash down the Gu's.

Here's a pic of my set up. This was a training ride, but you can see the Gu's in my trisuit if you look hard and the bottle between the arms

Pic

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Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
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It appears you are on a flat surface using the small ring. Someone did a nice job photoshopping a speed blur for the background. Also your seat looks a bit high (really) and you need to drop a few pounds. Maybe that'll help get you to the big ring.

Disregard any advice from this guy.

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You can always count on ST.....*sighs*

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I'm faster in Kilometers!
Wattie Ink Triathlon Team
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