I know this topic has been discussed before but I just want some more info. I recently bought the Arundel Chrono aero bottle and really don't like it. It's not necessarily one thing in particular, I just don't think it's for me. I know there is an aero benefit to these types of bottles but when I am watching pro cycling I see that a lot of riders just use a traditional round bottle. Even Fabian uses a round bottle. So my question is, what am I sacrificing using a round bottle instead of the Arundel?
Triathlon Forum
Login required to started new threads
Login required to post replies
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [adktriguy46]
[ In reply to ]
a few seconds
more detail than that really isn't possible, since it becomes frame dependent and stuff.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
more detail than that really isn't possible, since it becomes frame dependent and stuff.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
I mean when I think about that if the world time trial champion isn't concerned with it I probably shouldn't sweat over it either. Man jackmott you were all over that. I think not even a minute after I posted that you responded. Thank you
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [adktriguy46]
[ In reply to ]
adktriguy46 wrote:
I mean when I think about that if the world time trial champion isn't concerned with it I probably shouldn't sweat over it either. Man jackmott you were all over that. I think not even a minute after I posted that you responded. Thank youthe world time trial champion might be using what his teams tells him to use too.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
See I thought that too but the Schlecks like to use the camelbak.
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [adktriguy46]
[ In reply to ]
Where do you think the batteries for Fabian's Motor go... ;)
Really though, guys like David Millar are the one's that put a lot of detail in their bike setup.
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Really though, guys like David Millar are the one's that put a lot of detail in their bike setup.
My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
an aerowater bottle vs no water bottle costs me up to 32sec in a 40k on my bike
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
jackmott, i give you credit for posting a huge volume of sound, rational analysis on the boards here and especially for continuing to do it in the face of what are by now the predictable rebuttals, most of which don't seem to be motivated by a desire for constructive debate.
The subject of water bottle aerodynamics intrigues me. It's clear that some set-ups create less drag than others. What interests me most is the total impact of the bottle set-up. i.e. one bottle cage between the aerobars is probably the lest costly setup in terms of drag. But, the rider then has to slow down to exchange bottles multiple times. Bottles behind the seat incur the cost of sitting up to grab and put back the bottle. The bottle and straw between the aerobars or the Speedfill setup seems to require the least time out of the most aerodynamic riding position and could also create benefits from making it easier to regularly take some nutrition because it's just a matter of drinking from the straw in front of the rider's face.
So the question is:
How do you think the time costs of sitting up to grab a bottle and drink or slowing down to exchange bottles compares to the time benefits of the most aerodynamic bottle set-up?
This question can probably only be answered subjectively with an opinion based on experience because of all the variables involved. I value some opinions more than others. So, what say you?
____________________________________________________
"on downhill bits I can sometimes attack without pedaling =)
it is the uphill bits that are hard though" Jackmott
The subject of water bottle aerodynamics intrigues me. It's clear that some set-ups create less drag than others. What interests me most is the total impact of the bottle set-up. i.e. one bottle cage between the aerobars is probably the lest costly setup in terms of drag. But, the rider then has to slow down to exchange bottles multiple times. Bottles behind the seat incur the cost of sitting up to grab and put back the bottle. The bottle and straw between the aerobars or the Speedfill setup seems to require the least time out of the most aerodynamic riding position and could also create benefits from making it easier to regularly take some nutrition because it's just a matter of drinking from the straw in front of the rider's face.
So the question is:
How do you think the time costs of sitting up to grab a bottle and drink or slowing down to exchange bottles compares to the time benefits of the most aerodynamic bottle set-up?
This question can probably only be answered subjectively with an opinion based on experience because of all the variables involved. I value some opinions more than others. So, what say you?
____________________________________________________
"on downhill bits I can sometimes attack without pedaling =)
it is the uphill bits that are hard though" Jackmott
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jeffp]
[ In reply to ]
jeffp wrote:
an aerowater bottle vs no water bottle costs me up to 32sec in a 40k on my bike
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [usairl]
[ In reply to ]
I haven't done crowded races with handups, some here have pointed out that you may have to come nearly to a complete stop at aid stations in those races to get more fluid. that would be bad!
So it sounds like "it depends".
If handups are going to be slow, it definitely gets tricky. How many bottles do you need to finish a half? 2? 3? depends how hot it is and how big you are. you could go go with one between the arms, an aero bottle on the frame, and a bottle behind the seat, centrally located. As soon as you finish the bottle up front you could toss it at an aid station and move the rear bottle to the front, so that you can drink from it easier.
if 3 bottles lets you finish a half without having to grab a handup, that could be a fast overall setup.
a speedfil might be a simpler overall solution with the same effect, it looks like it holds quite a lot.
keep the straw short!
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
So it sounds like "it depends".
If handups are going to be slow, it definitely gets tricky. How many bottles do you need to finish a half? 2? 3? depends how hot it is and how big you are. you could go go with one between the arms, an aero bottle on the frame, and a bottle behind the seat, centrally located. As soon as you finish the bottle up front you could toss it at an aid station and move the rear bottle to the front, so that you can drink from it easier.
if 3 bottles lets you finish a half without having to grab a handup, that could be a fast overall setup.
a speedfil might be a simpler overall solution with the same effect, it looks like it holds quite a lot.
keep the straw short!
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [Quantum]
[ In reply to ]
the cage is usually just as bad whether a bottle is in it or not according to Cote
You're 32 sec. slower with the bottle? Dang, I think I need to start removing my cage for sprints. Half the time I forget the bottle on there.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quantum wrote:
jeffp wrote:
an aerowater bottle vs no water bottle costs me up to 32sec in a 40k on my bikeKat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [adktriguy46]
[ In reply to ]
I bought the Chrono also, and then stopped using it after a coupla rides - I've gone back to a traditional bottle/cage on the downtube.
1.) convenience - regular bottles are cheap to replace & swap easy both training & racing. 2.) I'm a Camelbak Podium valve junkie now. That valve design has forever ruined all other bottles for me.
Cheers, Chris
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
1.) convenience - regular bottles are cheap to replace & swap easy both training & racing. 2.) I'm a Camelbak Podium valve junkie now. That valve design has forever ruined all other bottles for me.
Cheers, Chris
Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
yeah, that 32sec was bottle and cage(arundel) vs nothing at 10deg, 8sec at 0 deg
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [adktriguy46]
[ In reply to ]
I was all for the aero water bottle until last weekend when I lost my profile razor bottle the night before a 70.3.
I only have one other bottle on my bike (between the bars) and I went to the race thinking that was my only bottle, so I ditched my nutrition plan (perpetuem is usually in my aero bottle, but I have to have a regular water bottle for that setup).
So long story short, when traveling to races that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. Use something that can easily be replaced. Or bring plenty of spares. However from now on my race setup is going to be more travel friendly.
YMMV
I only have one other bottle on my bike (between the bars) and I went to the race thinking that was my only bottle, so I ditched my nutrition plan (perpetuem is usually in my aero bottle, but I have to have a regular water bottle for that setup).
So long story short, when traveling to races that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time. Use something that can easily be replaced. Or bring plenty of spares. However from now on my race setup is going to be more travel friendly.
YMMV
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [Lou3000]
[ In reply to ]
plus some of the aero water bottles have a tendency to pop out.
I lost (arundel) one during a road race, it could have caused a crash. just a stupid stupid stupid.
I've seen sergio lose his arundel on a bump too.
this is why I'm a fan of the between-the-arms normal bottle setup for tris. Normal bottles, so much less hassle.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
I lost (arundel) one during a road race, it could have caused a crash. just a stupid stupid stupid.
I've seen sergio lose his arundel on a bump too.
this is why I'm a fan of the between-the-arms normal bottle setup for tris. Normal bottles, so much less hassle.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
So in something short like an Oly it's been pretty clear that a standard bottle in a cage rigged between the aerobars tends to be the best choice. One bottle should be all you need for that short of a race. But I'm assuming that is based on the frame being a aero tribike frame. Since I'm using a round tubed road bike with clip-ons would a bottle like the profile design actually improve my aerodynamics by changing the leading edge of the bike?
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
unless you don't have room there without some special contraption. :)
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
How about an Arundel between the aerobars?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [j_reese_22]
[ In reply to ]
could be
keep that straw short!
I have a round tube head tube as well, I don't want to use the profile design style setups for other convenience reasons though.
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
keep that straw short!
I have a round tube head tube as well, I don't want to use the profile design style setups for other convenience reasons though.
j_reese_22 wrote:
. Since I'm using a round tubed road bike with clip-ons would a bottle like the profile design actually improve my aerodynamics by changing the leading edge of the bike?Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [frogonawire]
[ In reply to ]
frogonawire wrote:
How about an Arundel between the aerobars?worth a try! might pop out even easier up there!
Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
LOL! Too true. But maybe I can catch it in my teeth.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jackmott]
[ In reply to ]
what are you guys doing to the cages? after 3 years, mine is still quite snug, though i am on bottle two, as the first one eventually cracked at one of the creases.
i was going to mount it on top tube behind stem/cables, but found that it was too wide for my knees to avoid while pedalling. i am therefore sans bottle at 40k and under
i was going to mount it on top tube behind stem/cables, but found that it was too wide for my knees to avoid while pedalling. i am therefore sans bottle at 40k and under
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [jeffp]
[ In reply to ]
I think I'm just going to stick with round bottle on the seat tube and try to get it low. I mean the air flow in that area is already turbulent due to legs and pedals moving about. Can't be giving up that much with that position.
Re: Aero water bottle vs round bottle [adktriguy46]
[ In reply to ]
adktriguy46 wrote:
See I thought that too but the Schlecks like to use the camelbak.Nope, they use the camelfront...
see my losses as stated above regarding an aero bottle