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Slowtwitch-think Bike Case
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First original Slowtwitch thread, in preparation for first flight with bike.

Started the game Monday of building two bike cases for the trip to IMCOZ.

Goals:
Reusable
Cost under $150 each
Small enough to not look like a bike
Strong enough to stand on
Case weight under 10 lbs
Both cases same size
Five days construction time in off-work hours
Must hold Large Softride FasTT7, spare beam, two wheels and wheelcover, pump, running and biking shoes, wetsuit and tools
Must allow padding between parts to prevent scratching

Here's my concept


6 yards x 50" Kevlar cloth $100
6 yards x 48" fiberglass mat $60
6 yards x 38" fiberglass cloth $12
Gallon Polyester resin, hardener and finisher $40
2 x 2" by 24" by 48" Polystyrene foam sheets $12
6 yards x 50" x 1/2" foam padding $30

Looks like I'm going over budget. I haven't figured out the closure system yet. I have some strapping, buckles and handles that I may use.

If you've got any ideas or suggestions, please share them...quickly.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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The frame length was the length limiter.
The wheels were the height limiter.

Allowing for an inch of internal padding, the external layout ended up 27" x 38" x 8"


The second bike is a small P3 with 650c wheels, so it's a couple inches smaller each dimension. There's no trouble fitting it in a similar sized space.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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buy an akona case
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I can't really help with your project but I bought this case for a recent trip.

http://store.mpgear.com/...mpetiton-cycles.aspx

I was able to find a store coupon code and get the case for ~$250.

It's a popular case on ST. I used curbside check-in both ways. On the way out they didn't ask what it was, and the bike was shipped for free. The return trip it cost me $50 (bike charge for Southwest)

It was just under 10lbs.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [IRONwolf] [ In reply to ]
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Akonas look like nice cases. Want to save $300, have a much smaller and more protective case, with wheels and backpack straps.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [TimBikeToo] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks. People seem to love those cases. I'm going for even smaller, cheaper, stronger, with wheels and backpack straps. At this date, I fear I wouldn't even be able to buy something in time for the flight Sunday.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Each case will have two 4" deep halves.

I decided to round the ends and corners for strength, and to diminish the appearance of size.

Shaped the foam last night with a saw and file. Moving quickly, I didn't get a picture before I sealed it with epoxy paint.

Here is the plug for one half sealed:


Last edited by: DamonHenry: Nov 18, 09 14:32
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Where do you live? I have a two bike case for sale:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...post=2500427#2500427
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [UNC_Tri_Guy] [ In reply to ]
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Would you guys let the man do his thing! I want to see how this DIY project turns out. :-)
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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I agree. I want to see how his project turns out...anything that makes travelling with a bike easier and cheaper is a good thing. I like my Akona case, but there is always room for improvement.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Gathered the materials after work. The current plan is to make a Kevlar fabric hinge for the bottom, build adjustable straps and handle into the case weave for secure closure, and have a 4" width of Velcro around the entire seal. The Velcro should function like a zipper, but allow the edges of the shells to stay flush, thus stronger than a zipper would allow. The Velcro ends will tuck under, thus be covered by the buckles and handle, which will keep the ends secure during travel. This approach Velcro approach could suck, and will take me up to, and maybe over the desired budget in my game. Edge alignment could be an issue.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I think its a pretty cool project, and even cooler that you are sharing it here.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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keep the posts coming please, I like projects like this. you need to finish this box ready and cured by this weekend?

Stefan
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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My initial read of your layout diagram has me concluding that you'll have to remove cabling from the handlebars to store the bike. Is that true?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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The actual layout does not require cable removal, as shown in the layout photo.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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If you have the time keep us informed...and the pictures coming...very interesting!
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [kus] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. I fly with them Sunday...I hope.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Sweet Idea

I made one back in the day, then ditched it and bought one
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Elite_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Any lessons learned that I should know about?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I was a cheap college student and used cardboard, very thick, but still cardboard.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Love this concept, and the idea of what a finished product might look like. After reading this, I went out into the garage and laid several of our bikes (double diamond) out the same way, and it looks much more compact than the Iron case I currently borrow.

I see I would have to disconnect my front brake from the fork to remove the fork, which leads to this question: Is it easy to pull the front fork and reinstall each time? Do I have to worry about bearings coming out?

Thanks for sharing, and please do post more pictures in this thread as you proceed with construction and travel.

--------------------------------------


http://www.whydoesgodhateamputees.com/
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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One additional thing to keep in mind is TSA may open your bike bag. You'll want to make sure that packing it up and closing it is relatively easy to do.

Best of luck,
-Tim
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [RichardS] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I see I would have to disconnect my front brake from the fork to remove the fork, which leads to this question: Is it easy to pull the front fork and reinstall each time? Do I have to worry about bearings coming out?


Bearings could be an issue with many headsets. I would suggest a cheap cable tie to keep them in the head tube. (actually might need 2 )
But that wouldn't be a hassle
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! Good tip. Our bearings are sealed in cartridges, but it's still a great idea to hold everything in place.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Thanks! Good tip. Our bearings are sealed in cartridges, but it's still a great idea to hold everything in place.


plus pack extra cable ties for the return trip. You'll have to cut them upon reassembly.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Two Antec computer case straps are being scavenged for the handles. They're not long enough to go all the way around, and I want to work them into the layup so the aren't exposed to snag on things. Handles and buckles will be on the 38" x 8" side of the case.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Never try anything for the first time in a race!

I've used epoxy resin a couple of times, but never polyester, which I selected for cost and time savings. I just bolted home for lunch, and a quick polyester test was successful. It melted things I thought it would melt (Styrofoam) but didn't melt things I didn't want it to melt (garbage bags, nylon webbing, plastic handles, wax paper cups). Compared to epoxy, polyester sets up fast. I'm hoping the test will be cured by this evening. If there are no surprises, I'll lay up the first shell.

My cheap camera was damaged during a recent adventure. It failed completely after the picture of the plug, that's why only half a pic was posted. I'm looking for a solution. I'm reluctant to take expensive gear near all this sticky stuff.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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any updates yet? looking forward to some new pictures.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [kus] [ In reply to ]
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I'm on schedule to finish both cases tomorrow. The only trouble so far was separating the first half of the first case from the plug. Instead of waxing the plug, I'm going to wrap the plug in plastic so I can leave handles to pull it free from the next three shells. The project is $3.50 over budget, and I'll need to spend $30 more. Unfortunately, my cheap camera isn't working. A backup camera is on the way.

Construction order for first half of first case:
Wax the plug - done
Apply chopped fiberglass matting - done
Apply regular matting - done
Reinforce strap, wheel and harness areas - done
Affix straps - done
Reinforce strap, wheel and harness areas again - done
Apply Kevlar - done
Remove half case from plug - done


Still to do on first half of first case:
Affix Velcro
Affix strap exit reinforcement
Apply polish/finish topcoat

Though the cases will be ready, I'll probably wait to affix wheels and harnesses until after this trip.

Starting the second half of the first case.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I love the focus on cheapness (as in managing the budget). What most STer's don't know is that this the fastest way to retiring early and riding the bike full time while everyone else slogs away chained to a desk or factory to service their toys!

Keep the updates coming. Yesterday I was trying to figure out if I could get my frame and wheels in a hockey goalie bag. Getting the frame in does not appear to be an issue, but most goalie bags are 20x20x40. My frame length is 96 cm (37.7 inches), so that works with removing the derrailleur, but the wheels 27 inche are the big problem.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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OK, here is a hockey bag that is 44 inches x20 x20 so big enough for larger frames assuming you remove the drive side crank:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/...%2BBag%252C%2BXL.jsp

You could load the frame and all the gear in this and damonhenry could make all of us something with fiberglass for wheels.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I have been watching your post with interest. I am very interested in a bike case that would allow me to ship my bike and avoid any chance of getting airline luggage surcharges. I think that your case as designed will probably not escape these surcharges. What are the final dimensions of your case? I think they will be about 27.5" x 41.5" x 8". This adds up to 77 linear inches. This is well over the 62" limit that most airlines allow, so you will get charged for oversized luggage.

I have been thinking that it might be better to split the bike into two separate cases. One for the wheels and one for the frame (with fork removed).

I have found this wheel case, that while expensive, adds up to 65 linear inches, just over the 62" limit. Wheel safe

I have been trying to find a case to put the frame into, but so far the have been unable to find one that meets my needs. My preliminary measurements indicate that I need to have a case that measures 28" x 28" x 8". this gives me 64" linear inches, again just over the 62" limit. I may be able to get by with a smaller case by removing the crank as well.

Has anyone gone this route for shipping their bike?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [wd] [ In reply to ]
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A wheel safe, plus a hockey roller bag will cover it. Technically most of the hockey bags are also just over the oversized limit though wrt to linear inches, but I think it might work.

I've had good success with my Akona bike case, but it does not have wheels and that annoys me.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Have you thought of using PVA mold release after waxing to aid pulling the part from the plug? I use it all the time for aircraft composite parts and it works like a charm.
Good luck with your project!


Patrick
Last edited by: ShaverR6: Nov 21, 09 5:53
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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The akona case looks pretty good to me. What are the outside dimensions when fully packed with a bike and wheels? I am kind of apprehensive about using a softsided case to hold my bike. are you comfortable shipping your bike on airlines using this case? Would it protect a carbon frame adequately?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [wd] [ In reply to ]
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You're right. This will not be under the 62" limit. My frame alone is larger than that. I played the game of making it all look as small as possible. If ST'ers are getting their small soft bike bags through without charges, this bag is considerably smaller. Other goals:

Protection - my frame is fragile and increasingly rare. There are many custom parts that I don't want broken. Looking inexpensive or unfamiliar often prevents theft.

Ease of travel - I wanted a small person to be able to manage her own gear.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [ShaverR6] [ In reply to ]
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Great suggestion. Yes. PVA should work. Even with that, I'd recommend handles on the plug. The wax released fine. Simply putting handles on my plug would have been all that was needed. Without something to grip, the styrofoam plug didn't have the weight to drop free. The good news is that it took my knee against the middle of the case, while pulling with a good portion of my body weight to bend the case, and another person pulling the plug to get it out. The case is strong, but wouldn't survive being crushed by a vehicle, so I'll be careful not to run over it.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [ShaverR6] [ In reply to ]
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On the second shell, using plastic, that I'm able to pull on. For the third shell, maybe I can figure out a way to get handles into the mold and ditch the plastic. Angled straps drilled into the plug and Gorilla glue might work.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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For the inside layer, I used chopped glass matt because it was $2 per yard. An inexpensive weave would only be $6 per yard, so add $12 per case, and would be easier to use. I'll splurge and make the second case with a woven fiberglass, for the experience.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [chamuco] [ In reply to ]
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After the chopped mat layer, came a regular mat layer, then regular woven fiberglass cloth reinforcing in the wheel and harness areas on the ends. The shape held to the plastic covering.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Mac] [ In reply to ]
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Marking the strap placement. That's black Kevlar, hanging in the top of the picture, that will be applied after the straps and strap reinforcing. The inside of the first shell is in the background.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [RichardS] [ In reply to ]
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Black Kevlar and handle applied. Handle is wrapped in tape during production.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Very nice work so far.
Another cheap way to reinforce the shell would be to use carbon TOW. Its basically unwoven carbon strands on a spool that would add stiffness in the direction it is oriented. You could add it to the interior of the case if it turns out to be too flexy.
Cant wait to see more progress.

P.S. Compressed air blasted in between the plug and mold works well to "pop" the two apart.


Patrick
Last edited by: ShaverR6: Nov 21, 09 9:55
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [ShaverR6] [ In reply to ]
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Patrick, thanks for sharing your experience! cured, the first piece is plenty stiff. I'll look into the TOW, to learn more. Definitely trying the PVA on the third shell. Plastic worked, but left small wrinkles of polyester on the inside. No harm, just no reason.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Building a case is neither working at the job, nor riding the bike. It has it's own costs and rewards. You, Slowtwitchers and triathletes are fun because we all pay attention to the game of resource management. Everyone picks his or her battles.

A quick update. I probably won't be able to post for two weeks as I travel:

The first case was proof of concept. It weighs almost 11 pounds. Dimensions are 38" x 27" x 8". It's plenty strong. I'll report back with how it travels and if I get charged.

So much was learned making the first case, and life outside of triathlon demanded attention, so I decided to travel with our existing case for our second bike, and delay building the second case. Why use the resources now, when a bit of planning will allow me to implement improvements?
Last edited by: DamonHenry: Nov 21, 09 21:53
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Summary:
The case traveled well. Technically, it is an oversize bag, if measured at its extremes. The rounded corners make measurement less likely. Wheels were a nice feature. Backpack function doesn't seem important. The kevlar hinge functioned flawlessly. The case is much stronger than it needs to be. A couple of pounds could be shed during construction. Less expensive materials could be used to further cut costs. I wasn't charged extra to, nor from Cozumel. Leaving Cozumel, there were a number of other bikes being checked. Everyone else in my party (including someone with a white box the same length, height and width but with square corners) was charged for their bikes, but not me. It appeared all other travelers with bikes were being charged. Airlines don't seem attentive to case thickness. Going to 10" thick probably wouldn't draw much more attention. Keeping weight down is important. The case drew more attention when I packed it with bike, tools and fluids than when it only contained bike and clothes. Downside: everyone I traveled with wants one. Thanks to everyone for your encouragement, tips and advice.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I WANT ONE!!!

11 LBS and not elephant-sized; when do you start production?

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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So awesome man. Thanks for posting. That thing is sweet. You need some wheels for the production version. You are correct, now one would ever believe there is a bike in there.

This should be submitted for triathlon innovation of the year!
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Would a regular diamond frame fit in there?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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So someone had a case the exact same size as yours but with corners, and they got charged for a bike while you didn't?

Was this simply because their case was recognized as holding a bike, and yours wasn't?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the praise. I want to tell you, I love your sig line every time I read your posts.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Well done, very inspiring and fun to watch the complete process. Me too I want one ;-)
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Wow that thing is seriously sweet. How much experience does one need to do that? I'm going to fly to IMC next year and wouldn't mind making one. Maybe out of CF.

This is your life, and it's ending one minute at a time. - Fight Club
Industry Brat.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [dalessit] [ In reply to ]
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The case dimensions are frame and wheel specific. You would have to layout your bike to determine the dimensions you need. I think I could get a 51" Cervelo P3 and wheels in this box if the box was 10" thick.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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The airline rep asked me "just one suitcase?" She asked other travelers what was in their cases. Technically, it shouldn't matter. My bag is oversize. Practically, I saw many suitcases that were oversize pass without charge, while cases identified as having bikes got charged extra.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The airline rep asked me "just one suitcase?" She asked other travelers what was in their cases. Technically, it shouldn't matter. My bag is oversize. Practically, I saw many suitcases that were oversize pass without charge, while cases identified as having bikes got charged extra.


So one of your 'techniques' was to carry everything else you needed for the trip in a carry-on?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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Traveling in my "warm clothes" and running shoes was part of the tecnique. Helmet and flops were in carry-on. My running shoes could have been in carry on. Scuba mask, snorkel, bike shoes, extra beam, tools, torque wrench, race clothes and pretty much everything else was in bike case. GF stuffed shampoo, conditioner and other liquids that added a few pounds in my case on the outbound trip. I gave them to hotel staff rather than return with them.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Traveling in my "warm clothes" and running shoes was part of the tecnique. Helmet and flops were in carry-on. My running shoes could have been in carry on. Scuba mask, snorkel, bike shoes, extra beam, tools, torque wrench, race clothes and pretty much everything else was in bike case. GF stuffed shampoo, conditioner and other liquids that added a few pounds in my case on the outbound trip. I gave them to hotel staff rather than return with them.


That makes me wonder if travelling without bike fees is less about the bike case's size/weight and more about disguising it's status as a bike case.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Ti T'war] [ In reply to ]
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Don't know how to evaluate required experience. Everyone has different knowledge. Many STers could point out things I did wrong, and ways to improve. I don't do many crafts. This was my first polyester project, but I've experimented with CF and epoxy before. Polyester seemed undemanding, but toxic. Spring, outdoors would be a good combination. I did a couple minor boat repairs a few years ago. I made a CF bento box and CF tool case that were each one layer thick with no structural demands. The hinge grew out of an experiment impregnating CF with silicone. It seemed to work, and Kevlar is even tougher. I've been designing a CF seatpost for the 2010 season. You and many other people probably have the required ability. I'll see you at IMCAN. That reminds me, I have to find accommodations.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Summary:
The case traveled well. Technically, it is an oversize bag, if measured at its extremes. The rounded corners make measurement less likely. Wheels were a nice feature. Backpack function doesn't seem important. The kevlar hinge functioned flawlessly. The case is much stronger than it needs to be. A couple of pounds could be shed during construction. Less expensive materials could be used to further cut costs. I wasn't charged extra to, nor from Cozumel. Leaving Cozumel, there were a number of other bikes being checked. Everyone else in my party (including someone with a white box the same length, height and width but with square corners) was charged for their bikes, but not me. It appeared all other travelers with bikes were being charged. Airlines don't seem attentive to case thickness. Going to 10" thick probably wouldn't draw much more attention. Keeping weight down is important. The case drew more attention when I packed it with bike, tools and fluids than when it only contained bike and clothes. Downside: everyone I traveled with wants one. Thanks to everyone for your encouragement, tips and advice.



What size Softride frame is in that, also is it based on 650 or 700 wheels? Rough cost?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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Makes me wonder too. Smaller, lighter and disguised don't have to exclude each other. Can you think of better ways to disguise it? A big Hello Kitty image or Calvin Klein logo on the side?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [yaquaman1] [ In reply to ]
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Large Softride FasTT7 (frame size 58-61) (700c wheels)
Cost about $150 per case
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Large Softride FasTT7 (frame size 58-61) (700c wheels)
Cost about $150 per case


Cool,

Do you think the same size Softride Qualifier should fit (tt7/rocket beam)?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [yaquaman1] [ In reply to ]
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Doesn't the Qualifier have the classic beam, not that it matters? You would have to layout your chosen frame and wheels, experimenting with all the possible configurations to discover the most compact. Hed3 wheels are very flat, and allow the rear chainstay to pass between the trispokes during travel. FasTT rear dropouts are removable, which shortened the case a bit. My aerobars break down very flat, which added no thickness. My case dimensions were limited by the frame length and rear thickness. Just guessing, a Qualifier case would be limited by the measurement from the top of the headset to the extreme of the frame's rear end.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Doesn't the Qualifier have the classic beam, not that it matters? You would have to layout your chosen frame and wheels, experimenting with all the possible configurations to discover the most compact. Hed3 wheels are very flat, and allow the rear chainstay to pass between the trispokes during travel. FasTT rear dropouts are removable, which shortened the case a bit. My aerobars break down very flat, which added no thickness. My case dimensions were limited by the frame length and rear thickness. Just guessing, a Qualifier case would be limited by the measurement from the top of the headset to the extreme of the frame's rear end.




Came in both beams, also running HED3
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Makes me wonder too. Smaller, lighter and disguised don't have to exclude each other. Can you think of better ways to disguise it? A big Hello Kitty image or Calvin Klein logo on the side?


You could figure out what the most likely musical instrument is to put in a case similar to that and then place decals appropriately.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
You could figure out what the most likely musical instrument is to put in a case similar to that and then place decals appropriately.

Cymbals!
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Makes me wonder too. Smaller, lighter and disguised don't have to exclude each other. Can you think of better ways to disguise it? A big Hello Kitty image or Calvin Klein logo on the side?


If they asked if there was a bike in there, what would you say? If they asked what was in the box, what would you say?

I'd guess that if you said "bike parts," only someone familiar with beam bikes would recognize it as a complete bike if opened.

Still, remember that lying to the TSA might not be a career-enhancing move.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Med Tent Man] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
In Reply To:
Makes me wonder too. Smaller, lighter and disguised don't have to exclude each other. Can you think of better ways to disguise it? A big Hello Kitty image or Calvin Klein logo on the side?


If they asked if there was a bike in there, what would you say? If they asked what was in the box, what would you say?

I'd guess that if you said "bike parts," only someone familiar with beam bikes would recognize it as a complete bike if opened.

Still, remember that lying to the TSA might not be a career-enhancing move.


Great point. It's probably a federal offense...and if not explicitly so, they could detain you for suspicion of terrorism.

Anyway, just put cymbal stickers on the case then don't lie. Who's going to ask you if they can read the case?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Med Tent Man] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
If they asked if there was a bike in there, what would you say? If they asked what was in the box, what would you say?

I'd guess that if you said "bike parts," only someone familiar with beam bikes would recognize it as a complete bike if opened.

Still, remember that lying to the TSA might not be a career-enhancing move.

Pack your pedals/stem/brake pads in your carry on. Then the object in your case is not a rideable bike - it does not contain all of the necessary parts. You are therefore completely honest when you say it's bike parts, and not a whole bike.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I read this whole thread, thank you for all the details, and I'm SUPER sorry if I missed it, but: I saw total cost ($150) but did you post total amount of work time? And time elapsed from start to finish?

Thank you!

Also I have an Akona Biospeed. It's fine, it works, your case is super awesome-r. The only way I get out of bike fees with mine is I be sure not to wear any bike logos and I say I'm a massage therapist. And then I go find a real massage therapist to help me recover from carrying it.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [cour10ay] [ In reply to ]
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Great project. Congratulations and thank you for posting the development/production pics.


Work hard, but with a purpose!!!
http://www.vo2tc.com
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [jyeager] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Still, remember that lying to the TSA might not be a career-enhancing move.

In most cases you NEVER speak the TSA. Remember there are two roles here. The airline has to be able to carry your bike to it's destination. To do this they have to make sure that it will fit in the aircraft and that in loading it it is in the right place for weight distribution. They also have a duty to their staff to make sure they are alerted to any overweight baggage to avoid injuries.

The airlines really don't care they are shipping bikes. However over the years they've gone from taking fully assembled bikes with the pedals removed and the bars rotated, but they were completely recognizable as bikes(and are what the bike baggage rules were written for), perhaps with old rags wrapped around tubes. etc. To shipping manufactures boxes, to shipping bike bags and then to shipping the monster boxes that things like the Trico Iron cases are. Also, while the weight of our bikes have gone down, as the airlines started charging, we (typically) put more stuff in the boxes to get the most out of shipping.

There is no reason why a small box should be charged as a bike, even if it contains a bike. In order for it to be carried as luggage it needs to conform to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Convention, and later modified by the Montreal convention, especially when travelling internationally. Mostly, any bag under 50lbs and less than 62-linear inches is a bag, even if it contains a bike.

Now, you can have an opinionated argument with the gate agent about this, and you'll always lose, especially if you have a large heavy box. The airlines run to pretty tight schedules and budgets these days,.

They won't necessarily have the number of people to load heavy boxes ready for every flight, so if you have a large box with your bike in, they can reasonably argue that it needs special handling and thus you should pay for it. However, if it's under a certain size and weight, then your ticket is a contract with them, and you have not broken that contract, it really doesn't matter that it's a bike.

So, look up the rules. Nearly always searching for sporting goods for the airline web site will find the page quickly. for example http://www.google.com/...g goods" site:aa.com

What this says is if it's between 63-81-inches linear, it's oversize. It doesn't matter if it's a bike. If it is 62-inches or under, it is not, and is 50lbs or less, it is a bag that should be carried based on the fact it is a bag, the contents is irrelevant. Now assuming your are over the linear length but under 50lbs then you are oversize.

If you print copies of the pages from the website, clearly understand what your ticket and airline frequent flyer status entitle you to, you can pretty much avoid gate checkin arguments. You are not required by law to tell them whats in your bag, only that it does not contain any of the prohibited items which include CO2 cartridges(even though there is no charge of them being a danger... but lets not debate that). The most successful tactic I used was to have a bike box under 62-linear inches. Well that was my opinion, I never came across a gate agent that had a tape measure. Of course, this doesn't work if you have a bike box thats visibly 4ft long and rectangular, it's an insult to gate agents to assume they can't do the math, especially when they are 5'2" ;-)

So, assuming you get your bike box checked in ok, either free or paid for, it then goes off to the TSA. If it's oversized, you may have to take it to the TSA scanning area, or a redcap/porter may be called to take it for you. Again, the TSA have the right to open it and examine it, and as such you don't need to tell them what's in it. I mostly just drop my Scion case at the TSA and walk away and find some discrete place to stand and watch to make sure they test/scan it and send it's on it's way.

Once in Miami on a connecting flight from the UK to SF for Escape from Alcatraz, my box sat for 45-mins waiting for the TSA to scan/check it, with only 15-mins to before my flight, there was no point in asking the TSA to hurry up, I went back to the AA desk and asked for a supervisor. I told them that the box had been sitting there for 45-mins and that I would not go through security until the box had gone. This potentially causes the airline headaches since my normal suitcase was already, I assume, on the plane, if I didn't board they'd have to unload it. The supervisor went and spoke to the TSA, it got checked immediately and I was on my way.

So, in general don't deal with the TSA unless specifically asked, don't volunteer, just let them do their job and stand back. Show up early for your flight, make sure you have printed copies of THE AIRLINE rules, answer questions accurately. Call ahead, get THEIR approval for your interpretation. My 2nd bag is this size, it weighs this much, am I correct in thinking I can check it for free/$xx etc. get their name and serial number.

If what you are trying to do is cheat the airline out of revenue by being deceptive, lying or otherwise being dishonest in trying to get your box the size of small car shipped for free, well good luck with that.

Here are a bunch of livejournal entries I wrote over the years on the subject, I don't travel so much now, even to races as it's got "old" and the last two races I used tri-bike transport. However, my young elite racing padwan has been very successful this year in getting her bike checked for no charge. http://triman.livejournal.com/tag/flying

http://pics.livejournal.com/...ic/00030bkb/s640x480

Good luck, happy travels!
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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This is really cool. A few years ago I made two boxes (one for wheels one for frame) out of corrugated plastic, velcro and a rivet gun (total cost ~$125 and plenty strong). I was never charged, though the cases were both about 65 linear inches. The cases stopped working when I got a new bike with slightly different dimensions.

How are you planning to add wheels to the case? With United Airline's new fees I'm thinking it's worthwhile to build a new case. I like your design, but I've never worked with fiberglass before so I'll likely try to make another plastic one. It just needs wheels so I don't hurt my back.

Ben Collins
Amateur Swimmer, Amateur Cyclist, Amateur Runner...
...Professional Triathlete.
It's not the length that matters, but what you do with it.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [bhc] [ In reply to ]
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I just glanced through this thread but it looks really cool.

Could this case be made out of carbon fiber? I know you can do it at home, a few buddies of mine have made a bike and a disc wheel. This shape seems easier than that.

I have an XL Pika Pack (Areus ripped off the design) and I always get charged. I have a 61 p2c and that case is HUGE. Works well though, although I like this design much better!

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [cour10ay] [ In reply to ]
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didn't BC and Tai make a case?

36 kona qualifiers 2006-'23 - 3 Kona Podiums - 4 OA IM AG wins - 5 IM AG wins - 18 70.3 AG wins
I ka nana no a 'ike -- by observing, one learns | Kulia i ka nu'u -- strive for excellence
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [npearson99] [ In reply to ]
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CF could be used instead of Kevlar, without any production changes. CF is triple the price of Kevlar, looks expensive, isn't much lighter, and isn't as tough as Kevlar. I wanted something cheap, tough, and plain looking, but knock yourself out if you want CF. It would look cool.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [bhc] [ In reply to ]
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Rollerblade wheels incorporated half in and half out like on most luggage. The case was reinforced for wheels when I first made it.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I'll see you at IMCAN. That reminds me, I have to find accommodations.[/reply]

Hopefully, I'll see YOU and that bike case in IMCanada as well...

The plans, at least, are something you could sell in the Classifieds (hint, hint) ;-)

The sig line comes from a bumper sticker AND after watching a friend with too many dogs. At dinner time, they all wagged, but no barking...I was amazed.

DFL > DNF > DNS
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [SallyShortyPnts] [ In reply to ]
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Plans? No plans. You saw it all here. Step 1: break your bike down as small as you can. Step 2: measure. Step 3: make and seal plug. Step 4: Layup inside layer, mat layer wheel and strap reinforcements, straps then Kevlar layer. Step 5: Trim, leaving bolt tabs. Step 6: Add hinge. Step 7: cut and glue foam inside. Step 8: profits. Questions? Ask.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I love it! Especially what you said about Hello Kitty stickers, I was thinking the exact same thing for my next custom bike box.

I made my own back in June since I knew I would be traveling a ton overseas, and there was no way my big bulky plastic hardcase + bike inside would be under 20kg (44lbs). So cardboard + pink & purple duct tape + straps =





I love this whole thread actually because flying with a bike box has been the bane of my existence for the last few months of my life--I will probably go to hell for all the very elaborate lying I've done to the check-in agents about the contents inside (it's NOT a bike) and no one has made me open up the box. The TSA people are indeed separate entities and I don't dare lie to them, usually they are far enough from the check-in people and if they want to know what's inside, I'll tell them, but hardly anyone asks.

The cardboard and duct tape have fallen apart after transversing the globe (the box has gone on at least 10 RT flights and only charged once on those mother-effers Delta for $150). The last hurrah was also IM Cozumel but now it's time to make a new one! I've been constantly brainstorming how to make a better bike box for next year. Agree with the depth dimensions--I'll probably go to 10" on my next one, this one was 7.5" I think, and after the wheels finally fell off somewhere between Asia and Europe, the box had trouble standing up by itself.

I went with a standard cardboard box for my P2C (54cm) but am going to make a custom one out of corrugated plastic and perhaps Hello Kitty stickers ;) I'm thinking 40" x 27" x 10", you are right in that the max factor for height is the wheel size. I also thought of not rounded corners but angled corners for the top at least, since I'll be using corrugated plastic. anything to make it not look like a bike box!

anyway nice work and it's great to hear you echo some of the ideas that I've been hashing out for my next project.

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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The fun of travelling with your bike!
I have had success with printing out 8.5 x 11 sheets with "COMMERCIAL DISPLAY" written on them. They don't
seem to charge for these.
I have also thrown in a couple of golf clubs as Westjet airlines expressly don't charge for golf clubs, which also irked me.
In Canada it is only the airlines that care what is in your bag, if it is a bicycle, they want to charge you for it. Once you are
clear of the airline check in, the guys at the oversize baggage don't care if you have a bike or not and they won't charge you
and don't seem to work for the airlines. They will almost always ask you if you have CO2 cartridges though. If your case is so
big it doesn't fit through the scanner then they rarely will see the co2 on a manual inspection. I have also discovered it is actually legal to
bring one co2 cartridge along as long as you say it is for a personal flotation device.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:


That's pretty freakin' bad ass, bro. How tall are you? It definitely looks WAY too small for a bike to be packed in there, and actually looks smaller than many "normal" suitcases. I dig it.

I have a Trico clamshell as well as an akona. The trico is a bitch and is starting to fall apart. The akona is a beauty (and larger than yours), but still makes me nervous. That case rocks.


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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Case version 2.0, a Hello Kitty themed case housing a small P3C with 650c H3 wheels.

The form was made of particle board (plastic inside as a release boundry) then fiberglass layers were laminated inside the form, instead of outside the form as had been done on the black case. This controlled outside dimensions which are
29.5 x 25.5 x 7 = 62 linear inches = compliant with airline requirements.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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WHOAAAAA!!!! I wants one!!! there is no way I could get my P2C within 62 linear inches. huge props!!!

...........................................................................
:: I came, I saw, I conquered. then I ran out of money, crashed into a car during an Ironman, and now work a bad-ass job making prosthetic legs for wounded warriors. ::

the blog: My So-Called Civilian Life :: theWongstar.com :: follow me @theWongstar
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Wongstar] [ In reply to ]
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The 62" threshold seems more of a guideline than a rule. The black case never incurs oversize baggage charges.
TSA searches the black case more often than the Kitty case though. Case profiling? :D
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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That Hello Kitty theme is a sure way to throw off the TSA fellas. Nice job..!!

Are there any plans in the future to build a two-box design.
Box 1 = wheels. Squared off design.
Box 2 = frame. Maybe a little rectangular.

This will definitely get the 700c bikes into a box without raising suspicion at the ticketing counter. I think Tai built one using corrugated boards, but i'm not sure how many uses he get out of his box. Your build seems to be designed to handle the baggage gorrillas.



Paul..
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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so the entire 51cm P3 AND 650c wheels are in the Hello Kitty box? WOW! I loved watching your progress on these boxes!! impressive...
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Paul] [ In reply to ]
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TSA not strip searching the Kitty wasn't a goal, just the unfolding trend. The Kitty face is an international way of indicating "this side up" for times TSA does open the case. Case contents shouldn't matter, but the Kitty case doesn't read as a bicycle. Hopefully, the high visibility keeps the Kitty case from walking off.

A two-box design would cost more each trip, would be less space/weight efficient, and would be unwieldy. Besides, a second piece of luggage us usually reserved for scuba gear, para-glider, or "toys".

The black holds a large Softride with 700c wheels.

A case is in progress that can hold a large triangle frame with 700c H3 wheels. It's a rounded-corner parallelogram, that while technically larger than the Kitty case, looks smaller and is very difficult to measure in the real world.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Great job with both cases!
Did you have to remove the fork of the P3C from the frame to fit in the case?
Do you have any pictures of the bike in the case?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [triDVM] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, the entire Cervelo 48cm P3c, 650c H3 wheels, fork, crank, aerobars...the whole bike, shoes, gear, tools, pump...everything needed for a race except helmet is in the Kitty box. Fork and crank are removed from the frame.

There are a few cases being built by STers. Hopefully, they'll post about progress, lessons learned, tips and improvements.

Here's the design of the parallelogram case that could contain a large bike with 700c H3 wheels, and how the design scales compared to the other cases.

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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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  Here's another home built bike case that we were inspired to make based on Damons' work:

In talking to Damon, we decided to use a modified parallelogram to minimize the size. The plug is a foam (pink insulating foam from Home Depot) that was covered with one fiberglass layer. A final layer of foam safe resin was applied to give a smooth finish. after a mold release was applied, we applied a 6oz cloth layer with a .25" scrim cut foam middle and a 6 oz eglass cloth layer on the outside. We put a plastic bag over the wet assembly and pulled a vacuum to get the foam to lay down nicely against the plug. We covered both sides of the plug and overlapped the glass layers along the sides for extra strength. To remove the cured parts, we cut the parts on a table saw and used a air disk cutter to finish the cut down to the plug. It took a lot of hammering and compressed air to get the parts off of the plug as we did not do a very good job of making sure there was any draft to the plug. Here's the plug (black) with the top cover removed.



Here it is with the bike installed. As you will see, we remove the fork, rear derailleur, seat assembly, and cranks. We made the plug a little oversize on the depth to allow a custom trim to the height we would determine by actually putting the parts into the case. The edges were pretty beat up from removing it from the plug as you can see in this next picture.
That edge was removed when we cut down to the correct depth. This one is about 8.5 inches deep. Width and height are about 33" and 26.5" for a total of 68". That is slightly over the maximum for the airlines, but would likely be difficult to measure and argue about with the rounded corners and edges.

[/url] [/url]

With the disc installed:

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A perspective to show how small the case really is. One thing we struggled with a bit is the finish of the exterior. Damon and others have used the Hello Kitty graphics and those really look good to me. If I were a little more artistic, I may have tried something like that. We started out with a truck bed liner coating as that is very hard and tough. After reviewing that, we decided to try making the case look different than other bike cases and maybe similar to a normal suitcase by covering it with a layer of fabric. This is actually a shower curtain fabric that we glued on with a spray adhesive. This was very easy to do even for someone that had never done anything like it before (me).
[/url] [/url]

I'll post pics of the finished case when it is complete. We are making two cases to go to Cozumel. The second case is going much more easily and looks better than this first one. This is the first time we have worked on a fiberglass project of any kind. There were definitely times when we thought the part would not not turn out as the foam kept popping up while we were applying the glass and resin. However, once we pulled the vacuum, we were able to smooth it out and any problems are easily fixed with a little reapplication of glass and resin. Quite a forgiving process once you are familiar with the materials involved. It is actually pretty fun to work on these cases as our comfort level has increased.

Big thanks to Damon for all of his help in getting us going on this project and providing help along the way. It is nice to make those kind of connections on ST.

I know my seat is too high....
[/url] [/url]
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Visitor] [ In reply to ]
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Packing the frame between the wheels keeps the box length short so you can travel with a disc or wheels with traditional spokes. Good solution.

Dark fabric, without lines might appear smaller.

Your bike box could house a triangle frame. Sweet!

Craft foam or thin polyethylene foam can be wrapped around bike parts to protect them. Foam is thin, light, and can be taped or glued with contact cement.

Are you going to put a lip inside to align the lid?
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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Can you post a few instructions for how you made the pink kitty case please?

Have shown the picture to my dad and it is going to be his first post retirement project.

Can't wait to get me one of those!!!!!
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Stumps] [ In reply to ]
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Except for the graphics, most steps appear in the thread already. The graphics are up to you. Many fabrics can be used. Pigments can be mixed with epoxy or polyester. Some experimentation is required to get neon colors, and glow-in-the-dark outline.


Break your bike down to a configuration you're willing to travel with. Don't just visualize it. Note the critical packing order. Make a pattern.

Parallelogram layout is efficient for a triangle frame with regular or disc wheels.

If you work inside the form, a rectangular shape is easier to make. If you work outside the form, any shape can be easily sculpted from pink or blue insulation foam.

If you work inside the form, graphics are painted in first. If you work outside the form, graphics are the last layer.

Polyethylene plastic is an inexpensive release agent. Thick sheets can be glued or taped to the mold. Thin rolls can be cut then glued. Some adhesives dissolve foam. Electrical or clear tape can be used if needed.

Epoxy or Polyester resin work. Epoxy is more expensive, but less toxic and less odorous.

Building on a full plug, instead of making each half separately keeps the two halves perfectly aligned.

The closure system is up to you. Straps, latches, Velcro and tape all work.

Putting a lip inside helps with strength and alignment.

The handle and wheel system is up to you. Wheels that stay attached are vulnerable during travel. No wheels, or external, removable wheels seem the best bet.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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DamonHenry wrote:
TSA not strip searching the Kitty wasn't a goal, just the unfolding trend. The Kitty face is an international way of indicating "this side up" for times TSA does open the case.


In reviewing this thread (still the best bike case EVER, imo) I have but one suggestion: The "hello kitty face" is the international "this side up" indicator. Therefore you ought to have a "hello kitty butt" to indicate "this side down" on the other side of the case. :)


<If you're gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough>
Get Fitter!
Proud member of the Smartasscrew, MONSTER CLUB
Get your FIX today?
Last edited by: Khai: Mar 10, 11 16:24
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [Khai] [ In reply to ]
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Like, Wow! What a complement? You not only like Hello Kitty as a Chester, but you want Kitty back attack.
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Re: Slowtwitch-think Bike Case [DamonHenry] [ In reply to ]
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I hate reviving dead threads, but I cannot PM yet.

Why did you decide on fiberglass instead of plywood? Is there any specific reason why wood (perhaps 3/8" pine plywood) could not be used instead? It would be easy enough to cut and screw together, then add a few dowels for crush support. It would definitely be heavier, but much easier to make and quite a bit less than $150.
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