it does look queer, if i thought it actually helped id still wear them during training.

if there is actually any benefit to them, it would probably be recovery only.

This should help:
How Compression Sport Socks work:
Imagine this: Your leg is a two lane highway with little to medium traffic at rest. Now you're racing or training hard which equals rush hour. The result: traffic jams, delays in arrival and return. Major lactate acid build up resembles new construction sites....it will only get worse from here.
The Compression Socks mean a widening of your two lane highway into a four lane freeway. Workloads of high intensity training, long durations and racing are now able to move without being held up. Traffic aka oxygenated blood gets all the way into the foot, lactate acid can be transported out at the same time without major delays. As a result, you will be able to work longer, harder, faster and get back to it earlier!

---

Sebastian
SLS3
http://slstri.blogspot.com/

Now, imagine this:

You take an analogy, which is a simplistic way of explaining something without having
to worry about accuracy, and apply it to a technology.

As a result, the internet is just a bunch of pipes. And ball bearings. It's all
ball bearings nowadays.

-Jot

I've yet to see *any* peer-reviewed or otherwise reputable study that shows that compressions socks have any benefit at all while running.

Outside of after-workout recovery, it's just snake oil.

Unfortunately, I did not save the link, but about a year ago Runner's World publicized a peer reviewed study that showed a small but statistically significant benefit for running in compression socks. It was something like 1% over a 5k.

I love compression socks but take vast amounts of grief from my friends for wearing them.

And yet I haven't seen any of the elite runners around the world running in them. I would think that the socks would help them most of all. a 1% increase for an elite marathoner would be HUGE

I agree that if they really helped 1% it would be huge and all of the runners at the olympics would wear them (just like the Lazer suit in swimming). I think Paula Radcliffe ran in them, but I haven't seen any elite male marathoners running with them (usually just middle aged broken down triathletes!)

Still, that's what the article said, that's the only thing I ever seen quantifying the difference. I really, really wished I had saved the link because this topic comes up about every 2 months on ST, but I didn't.

Hopefully, someone with good Google-fu can find it and then all the ST vultures can explain why its authors are idiots (but never do any attempt to scientifically study the issue themselves).

Did it offer any convincing explanations as to why it wouldn't be attributed to a placebo effect?

Also: http://runningtimes.com/...aspx?ArticleID=13830

And: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17365528

Indeed. A 1% improvement in running speed would equate to a 2:02:46 marathon world record for Halle.

Frankly, I am not enough of a statistician to know. I wear them for one reason only--they help prevent a recurrence of a persistent, painful cramp I get I sometimes get in my left soleus. So whether they do/don;t present a performance benefit I'll keep wearing them and keep looking dorky.

youre not explaining the mechanism of action.

when a person is running, their skeletal muscle pump is in action.

We are supposed to believe that by applying compression to your calves, that somehow this improves circulation changing a "two lane highway into a four lane freeway". The supply and return is separate so where is the congestion coming from?

How is compressing [in other words squeezing fluid out of the cells] improving circulation. If anything you are restricting blood flow to your extremities which will have exactly the opposite effect to what you are describing.

If you want to use a very simple analogy, it is like tying an elastic band around your finger.

I may be totally wrong, [although I don't think so] but to me this is nothing more than a fad. What makes it really bad is that it makes half decent runners look extremely gay.

you know that elite athletes don't always choose the best equipment or make the best training choices.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

    You can see Joe Friel's post over at trainingpeaks. He isn't recommending them yet after reviewing the lit.

I have several pair of them, and they don't improve my run or bike times. My legs actually start to feel sluggish after a period. I played around with them for a bit and planned to do a few studies with them. They do decrease some of the crankles post ultrarace, just like medical compression socks.

I and many others have been researching them for awhile, but we have yet to come across a bonafide well done study pointing to improved performace in athletes. Yes, an elite marathon runner was sponsored by a sock manufacturer.

There are many "implications" that they improve venous outflow and thus rid the lower leg of "lactic acid", but this is inference from well done studies on patients with pathologic varicosities. In that setting, they DO improve venous outflow in the pathologic vein. Unfortunately, we can't apply these studies to normal venous flow.
So, the verdict is still out. I believe it's possible for someone develop a sock that augments venous return in athletes.

In the meantime, anyone can order them and see what happens to their times. They do feel nice wearing them.

I think I am pretty safe saying elite marathoners chose the correct equipment....running shoes...done. :)
If you are talking about Elite triathletes who seem to get caught up in the latest fads just as much as the age groupers do, I think you are correct.

I find that the definitely help when running hills, but mostly I use them for recovery (a big help w/shin splints).

Here's a quick write-up I did on my first run in them: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...0wildflower;#2285192

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)

+1.

And I can't believe anyone would actually publish that analogy posted before. False analogies indicate that someone doesn't actually understand what he's talking about.

shoes, as long as they are from the right sponsor.... theirs!

again, I don't think we should assume pro athletes know what they are doing. Sometimes they are amazing in spite of what they are doing. They've got the engines.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Exactly! What really floors me are pros who give dubious advice as though we should be following it. I know it drives magazine and website profit, but I'll never forget a certain legend going on about fueling and in the same article stating his stomach only ever felt comfortable in one of his many IM races. I remember thinking, Jesus, are you listening to yourself?! Yeah, you succeeded in spite of yourself, but that doesn't mean others should follow your model.

I run in compression socks on my long runs over 13 miles. Don't believe in the venous return stuff, but they do seem to stop my calves from jiggling around during a 20 mile run.
Seems less sore during run if I wear them. Probably will not wear them at lake placid, especially if it is hot that day. I struggle in the heat as it is. Plus I don't want to look like a total geek when I cross the finish line!

I've had the same experience with the jiggling thing, I've got fairly large calves.

I do believe in the venous return stuff though, I had my doubts at first but my legs feel so much better after wearing them after longer workouts.

I also agree with the looking like a total geek thing too :)

jaretj

1. Compression socks/stockings have been used in the medical field for years to promote circulation. I don't know how their use in the medical field translates to running, but us triathletes are acting like compression socks are some new found invention.

2. It cracks me up to hear a bunch of guys who run around in spandex talk about knee high socks looking geeky or queer. For real, have you looked at us lately. We are not as cool as we might think.

I said I don't want to look like a TOTAL geek , I already know I look like a partial geek!

1. Is circulation a limiter in sub-LT running? Or above LT, for that matter?

2. I don't know about you, but I don't train in my race uniform�

I thought it was to prevent pooling of fluids (like ankle swelling) due to poor circulation. I.E. it will mitigate problems due to poor circulation, but not be able to actually promote circulation?

I train in the same uni as I race in. I try not to deviate too much from how I train to how I race. If something is "off", I want to know about it in training, not in a race. I just save my aero helmet and wheels for race day only, not training.

I only wear compression socks for long runs of 16+ miles. I haven't found the 2XU socks to cause any heat issues. I overheat easily, but the socks don't play a part in that.

And for what it's worth, I'm totally geeking it out for Placid. 2XU compression socks with Zoot Advantage shoes.

A couple of them, Meb and Paula Radcliffe wear them (or did in the past)
I really like the socks, but won't wear them on training runs - just like I won't wear a TT helmet - high DB factor. They have great blister protection and I don't have to shave!

They also help the lymphatic system. By reducing the area for interstitial fluid to collect the lymphatic system has less fluid (swelling) to dispose of. Large amounts of fluid collection (cankles) can cause a degree of compartment syndrome which reduces blood circulation.
I go for the complete idiot look by wearing soccer socks for compression and warmth when it is cold. I wore Zoot compression socks for a Marathon and IMCdA. For the Marathon they kept my feet dry by absorbing the sweat and water I poured over myself. For IMCdA they kept me warm and my feet dry by absorbing the rain running down my legs.
For a complete fashion statement you wear arm warmers with a tank top ;)

I have watched Paula extensively and I have never seen her wear anything that would even resemble a compression sock. But if you can find the pic, I would love to see it.

Her ya go:

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/...eRunsMOS_468x786.jpg

hmm...well that explains it!! They were skin coloured!!!

Ya hers look more like panty hose. Seems she wore them more in the past. Here's another:

http://www.babble.com/...-marathon-baby-2.jpg

Mo Farah, another British athlete, tends to wear them as well. He's no slouch: British 3,000 record and 27:44 10K.

im baaaaaaacck

you know that elite athletes don't always choose the best equipment or make the best training choices.

That's true, but I happened to be at the World Cross Country Running Championships last year, which for all intents and purposes is the biggest gathering of all of the worlds absolute best distance runners, and I did not see one pair or compression socks in any of the races. Heck a few of the Kenyan kids racing for podium places in the junior races, were running bare foot!

All of these 500+ runners are making poor equipment choices?

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I don't know. all I do know is that just because 500 plus runners do it doesn't mean it's right.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

But because 200 triathletes do it, it makes it plausible? ;)

all I do know is that just because 500 plus runners do it doesn't mean it's right.

So if 500 of the best runners in the world are not using something, that means nothing to you? Wow! A lot of these guys get paid a lot of money and get a lot of free gear to hopefully influence what people like you do and what you buy.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

people like me? or people like us?

Look... it took baseball 100 years to figure out batting average and RBIs were worthless stats... now they're into OPS, OBP, win shares, WHIP, RCOA, etc. And these were the so called best in the world you were referring to. Just because pro does something doesn't mean it's right.

don't discount the power of social norms, peer pressure, and institutional inertia influencing what top athletes do.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

people like me? or people like us?

Speak for yourself, but if 500 of the absolute best athletes in the world in a sport are doing something or not doing something, I am going to be taking notice of that. That says something, at least to me. Where on earth do you get your advice from for training and gear and equipment choices? What these guys do means absolutely nothing to you.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

dude, chill out! I'm just sayin'.... First of all, not doing something is not the same thing as doing something. Second of all, we are still in the "early adoption" stage of ergogenic running aids (newton, compression, etc.), so who knows what we'll be saying in 2 years from now... the jury is still out. Third, what these guys do does NOT mean absolutely nothing to me. But it doesn't mean absolutely everything to me either. It is what it is, and I'll apply that knowledge to my own training and racing based on more information than just what everybody else is doing. Usually I experiment with something to see if it works for me or not.

I'm honestly very surprised that you feel this way. You are a key supporter of the anti-conventional wisdom of not doing marathons for IM training and racing short and hard early and often for better long term triathlon development. You also know that there are quite a few long course pros that don't have the best bikes, clothing, equipment, nutrition, race strategies because of sponsors, publicity goals, ignorance, etc.

I get my advice from alot of places, but I'm not blindly following the marketing. Because of guys like you and others like you on this forum and in my real life, I have a very good bike position, an excellent fitting wetsuit, and I've been progressing from day one in the sport... I know what I"m doing when I chose whom to listen to and whom not to listen to.

my $.02

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Eric,

My apologies. I call truce.

It's late in the day here.

You are a key supporter of the anti-conventional wisdom of not doing marathons for IM training and racing short and hard early and often for better long term triathlon development.

This is not anti-conventional. If you talk to many of the top coaches - the ones who really know what they are doing, they'll be saying the same thing.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

haha! OK same here. It's early here and I've had too much coffee not to mention time on my hands and nothing to train for since my A race has passed!

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

P. Radcliff has worn them for the last several years. I never even noticed them until a sports announcer pointed them out. The "flesh tone" really blends in.

Well as a nurse I can tell you how they are used and my understanding of their translation to the world of sports. In medical/surgical situations compression devices of different types are used to prevent blood clots in the lower legs, the risk of clots arises from fluid overload and inactivity causing fluid to pool in the extremities, when people are in bed for days and the legs/muscles aren't being used, venous return is impaired. The compression helps stop the fluid from leaving the blood vessels ie swelling and supports the vessels so that the fluid can be pumped back up to the heart. The reason compression helps is that veins unlike arteries have little one way valves so that all the blood doesn't rush to your feet when you stand up. With swelling and decreased muscular pressure the vessels can dilate wide enough that the valves leak backwards and this causes decreased venous return and ultimately swelling. As athletes it makes sense that we wouldn't want this, as it affects overall circulation and therefore performance, however during strenuous activity your muscles are pumping hard and your heart is beating hard and you are presumably a healthy person with normal electrolyte levels etc.... so therefore aren't really at risk for this problem, "during activity" which is why most compression apparel is marketed as recovery aid. Once you get home form that long workout and lay on the couch or what ever, there is the potential that these socks, tights etc... can aid you by enhancing circulation and preventing swelling during recovery when the muscles aren't pumping the blood back up to the heart. All the research I've come across so far loosely correlates their use between the 2 applications, there is little to no real conclusive info to support their use during sport, that I've seen. Many nurses even wear them at work to prevent leg swelling, you could easily say that this means that they could help when running but the difference is that there is alot of standing on the job, not alot of lower limb muscle contration going on, so again, the recovery theory is again more likely in my mind. Hope that helped some and didn't bore others to death.
ps I think the geek factor is too high to bother ;)

Great discussion and well said above. I wanted to just add a few things that may either raise more ??'s or hopefully shed light on who CEP is and what we want to accomplish. Everyone is coming out with compression these days and there's definitely a lot of products that are questionable in terms of research and product quality. CEP is owned by Medi and Medi is the world leader in medical compression (http://www.medi.de , http://www.mediusa.com). We're a German based company and all of our products are made there. When you're dealing with compression it's essential that the compression levels are targeted, accurate and designed to fit the circumference of the extremities. We make a full range of medical products for the venous system, lymphatic system and also hospital Anti-Embolism stockings.

CEP was born with the inspiration to take our medical products and design a targeted compression that will not only increase performance but benefit during recovery as well. We have studies that have been published by the Journal of Strength and Conditioning and recently seen in Men's & Women's Health. One particular study showed that the runners wearing our socks have 5% faster running times and used 6% less energy in the process. To me, when CEP first came to the U.S., it was hard to tell someone they were going to run 5% faster. However, after a year in the field doing events and getting feedback many athletes experienced just that. Sometimes even more. . . One Triathlete emailed me saying he PR'd his run by 35min! Even if he had a great day there's no way he could improve his time by that much without the help of our socks. The reason is he'd always cramp up at mile 15 or so on the run and he'd slow to a jog/ walk the rest of the way.

Anyway, here's a link to our site and studies if you'd like to take a look. I'm happy to answer questions as we feel it's important to know the difference between "Claiming" to have compression and actually having compression. Almost all the products out there firhgt now aren't medically tuned. They're made in the same factories in China and are sized by shoe size.. This has nothing to do with circumference of the leg which is the key measurment when fitting compression. Also, our sock is anotomically shaped so it isnt' a "Tube Sock or Sleeve" that is tighter in the calf than the ankle. All products, including ours, have been tested by the Hohenstein Institure fro comrpession. NOT ONE product but ours is designed with graduated compression and they're almost all not tight enough to penetrate the deep veins and/or arteries. Check out our site and let me know what questions/comments you have:

http://www.cep-sports.com (Click on EN for English. NEW Site up in 3 weeks!)

http://webserver2.medi.de/Studies.8625.0.html

CEP Sportswear

---

CEP Compression Sportswear
cepcompression.com

I have not used the full sock yet ...only the 2XU calf guards. I suffered a partial tear of my right calf about 6 weeks ago and decided to try the calf guards (based on Steve Larsens' (RIP) write-up) for extra support.

I have used them on long runs, track workouts, and for a recent oly race and have run without any discomfort. The usual post-race soreness was no longer there. I plan on trying some recovery tights soon.

IMO, based on whatever snake-oil science is out there, these things work and I will continue to use them regardless of the high geekiness factor.

How can you widen something by compressing it?

In fact, when I put on compression socks and run, my leg discomfort can be relieved in a shorter time. To prevent varicose veins, I also wear them at work, only when I need to stand for a long time. Swelling of the legs has rarely occurred.

It's probably not a perfect analogy. To me it might seem more like going from a 4 lane with obstructions at intervals, that slow the overall flow, to an unobstructed 4 lane.

Not sure how relevant it is but what do you do when you squeeze too much toothpaste out? I squeeze the tube in a way that sucks it back in, widen the tube by squeezing it.

I wear compression socks everyday (under my paints) as normal socks. They make a difference to me at the end of the day in terms of how my legs feel. I never actually run in compression socks because I sweat a ton and hate having socks hiked to my knees while running. Otherwise, compression socks substituting as socks are great. Do I receive any benefits from wearing them? Who knows? I think they help. I fly a bunch for work and always wear them while traveling.

It occurred to me that 500 runners are probably right, not to use additional equipment that shows to advantage for their conditioning, level of athleticism and age.
These are elite runners most of whom weigh less than my left leg.

On the other hand a quick look at last years Kona entries shows the biggest age groups start above age 35, all the way up to my ancient level. In fact there were more finishers in the Mens 65-69 AG than finished the race in the Mens Pro ranks.

So the questions and answers around the use of compression equipment should really start with whether studies have been done with age groups, weight levels and fitness/athletic ability. Maybe those have been done and I missed the plot.

But all too often the discussion on here are about elite performers, their training methods, their equipment and their results, which are, in the main, not relatable to even the top end age group performers. And that's fine and interesting, but no always germane to the question, will it help some old fart (like me).

And yes I know that that top AG performers do end up in the results columns, but usually as a prelude to going Pro or because they were once elite athletes and will always be above the pack. Once again they are elite athletes who weigh less than my left leg, with or without a compression sock on.....:0)

I bought some on a whim and wore them last weekend for the first time - on a 10 hour hike. I don't know if they did any good - I've never had a problem with my calves - I felt fine the next day though. The biggest advantage was that they kept me from getting sunburnt.

I also bought them after a small calf tear for recovery. And I also had them afterwards as a hope that it prevents another tear.
Anyway, there should be some effect at least in the medical world, see post #46.

I also wear them on the bike because of proven aero-reasons. In a triathlon, they then automatically stay on my legs for the run.

I have CEP compression socks and I must support the professional CEP poster in post #47, but not because of the silly 5% faster argument, but because they are of excellent quality. You can wash them a thousend times and they still "compress" and not wear out.
Contrarily to 2XU which I also had, and through the tissue of which which my fingers penetrated during putting them on after one time washing. So if you ever decide to buy some, buy CEP and not 2XU.