I like it.
Is it possible to get that carbon post for my P3 SL? My carbon post is not as updated (for lack of a better word).

So let me see if I haqve this right. I buy arguably one of the fastest bikes in the world, then I stick two water bottles way up high in the wind making my bike now one of the slowest.

Seems like a bad design to me, unless you can get the bottles much lower.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I like that . . . especially the adjustability factor. Not to highjack, but why is your saddle pointed downward in the front and not level?

It looks like you could turn it around and lower the bottles some, not unlike how you can switch the Beaker one. Tom had photos of that one last month.

I thought I remembered someone recently (Rapp, maybe?) saying that pointing up and close to the butt was more aero than lower riding bottles?

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

Good question. The bottle bracket has up to 31 positions according to X-Lab. The photos you see here show only the highest position. It can be mounted much lower as well.

As the photo shoot has been progressing over the last hour I've been re-positioning the thing on my own bike and then shooting more photos to show the various possible positions.

Here is a photo of the lower position from X-Lab's own website (mine aren't uplaoded or photoshopped yet).

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Nope- these posts are specific to the P2C and P3C... currently.... ;)

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Good question. If you look at it relative to the bike, it is nose down, but not by much. I tried it level and it smiply felt a trifle better angled slightly nose down.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

nice design. i like it better than the beaker.

and great pics.

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Where would you want to swim ?

what i like about cervelo and the p3c is the attention of details that Gerard and Phil have put to it. What i dont like about Xlab and the other system is the lack of attention or adjustability to it. The system i see right now is way to far from the saddle to optimize aerodynamic and the quality of the bike.

it s very important to have to bottle against the saddle and if possible hitting your butt at all time during the ride.

here s a exemple


this is a dremel tacx system...cost 30-40$ can put 1 or 2 bottle, lighter than anything on the market...dosnt launch bottle and it against the saddle. So when muffing top is a bit back on the saddle, the bottle is actually against him....

the difference is in the details....

what do you personaly think of the Xlab system????

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

You're right about it touching your butt. I just shot a photo of the X-Lab in a position that enables the bottle to touch me butt if I am sitting square on the saddle. I'll post it tomorrow.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

I think MuffinTop looks fast on taht bike

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Ruble Triathlon Coaching Average of 30 coached PR's per year
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I like it. I'd love to have a P3C or even P2C to put it on, rather than my P2k, but that's just a gripe.

The adjustablility looks quite good. I think alot of the comments so far are in relation to aerodynamic of this setup (particularly the first pic) but from what I know about wind off a riders back, the highish position shown is actually very good. Even in ideal straight ahead wind directions, the turburlent low over the riders body takes quite a while to re-attach, or come back together behind the rider. This is why we can (if we choose to cheat) get an effective draft from a rider even 7-10 metres ahead. The fore/aft location of the bottles, by a few centimetres is arguably irrelevent in the real world. High bottles are easier to reach and faster and easier to retrieve and put back. This savings in aerodynamics is going to be at least as important as bottle loction one way or another.

IF I had a P3C to put it on, I would probably install it just as shown in the top picture. But that's just me. Given the adjustability, I'm sure it would be suitable for anyone racing in a tri.

Thanks for the great pics.

BTW, do all those arrows and numbers on your bike make it faster or slower? LOL

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Does it matter? not being an ass or anything but I can't imagine it mattering.

well..that isnt exactly right. The position of the bottle behind the rider is important and as a effect. Have you been in the windtunnel to play with that? i can tell you there is difference, and depending of someone position, bottle high can be good or bottle low can be better. But most likely all the time...bottle as close as possible to the body is better.....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

jonnyo,

I agree with you about bottle position to some degree. I am mainly alluding to the difference between the ideal world (which none of us live in) where bottle position is important, and the real world, (where most of us live, at least some of the time).

In the real world, the wind is (thankfully) rarely dead ahead. To compound that, have you seen some of the horrific positions and bike setups that some people (far too many) show up for IM for? Bottle location is the least of their problems to saythe least

Lance for example, experimented with seam location on his jersey, for best aerodynamic benefit. On the other side, I've seem pointy hats that look ridiculous, with the hat sitting on top of the riders head and never coming within about 6 inchs of their back! WTF? Or pointy hats with drop bars and aero bars higher than their saddle.

In the real world, I think it's more important to be easily be able to reach a bottle quickly (for best aero advantage) that to worry about the bottles being an inch too high or too low.

With the amazing adjustability of the Hydration rig, I think just about any rider should be able to get a bottle position for them that suits their dedication to aero or dedication to getting a drink when they need it. Personally I like the idea of the bottles being an inch or so behind the seat. That way sliding back on the saddle to climb, can be improved.

Regards

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

i understand your point and for many like you said.... it s the least of there concerne and a lot of more important details need to be taken care of...

as for me, i m really a geek and so into all details that sometimes... i take it too far!! :)

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

It matters if you don't like anything accentuating you moving forward on the saddle.

Accentuating sliding forward on your seat is an issue? That's a fashion concern. It is not a concern of triathletes dedicated to getting across the finish line as soon as they can.

How can triathlon be a fashion show? FK me! Have you seen how most of us show up? Budgie smugglers, garsih clothes, bikes and wheels with stickers all over, flouro coloured drinks and all sorts of hideous colour shoes. I could go on, but you get the point.

Bottle location is not a fashion item. It is a result of several criteria. Criteria that is different for each person. IF you are worried that a bottle position makes you look like you are on the nose of your saddle...don't worry. What you should worry about is that it makes your A$$ look big in those pants. LOL

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I can't believe that I am even responding to your drivel, but saddles are usually level, especially on triathlon bikes so as not to increase the propensity that you scoot forward. I tend to ride very far forward on my saddle like most triathletes, but I don't need anything that accentuates it.

Drivel? WTF? That wasn't drivel. That was well thought out, cunningly crafted humour thankyou very much! :-)

With saddles, it's not the outer part that needs to be level, it's the shell inside that needs to be level. In some saddles, that can be quite different. If you are sliding that far forward, possibly a bike fit adjustment might be in order. At least worth checking I'd say. Of course you can ignore my suggestion, it is just an uninformed opinion afterall.

Later duuuuuude (are your brakes rubbing?)

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Here are a few more views of the X-Lab Sonic Wing configured in different positions:

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Concur w/Jonnyo....wish the design kept the bottles closer in to the butt/legs...and low too. I'd also like to see a single mount option where the cage mounted straight off the back too.

Do you mean like the third picture in Tom's post above?

My seat is angled down and I don't slide forward. When it creates a pressure point on my taint and makes my nuts hurt. The guy who did my vasectomy said I had hanging boys. Anyway, it's very comfy angled down.

Looks nice, looks adjustable, probably will allow a lot of people to have a lot of different bottle placements, and may even work well for a few. At the end of the day, all of the positions allowed by this carrier are terrible. Take a lesson from Torbjorn and hide the damned things behind the seat in an almost-level configuration. I suspect a few extra holes drilled in this apparatus could do the trick.

Chris

No...that's mounted on the right side of the rig. I want a single cage, mounted so it straddles the centerline of the bike....much like a downtube-mounted cage.

There is a single bottle Minoura that works very well in this application, but you have to bend it a fair amount to get it tucked up behind the seat just right. I have had the best luck with mounting a nice sturdy cage to it first, and then giving it a few nudges in the right direction. The tacx is a more versatile unit and can hold 1 or 2 bottles, but takes a bit more modification to get just right. It can definitely be done with a small dremel though and doesn't take that long.

Chris

I second the Tacx-dremel setup, I've love it so far on my P2C and it was really cheap, like less than $30. When I'm riding it is right up against my butt and saddle. But I just carry a tube, CO2, tire lever, etc in that bottle. No hydration. If I race tubulars I take it off entirely.

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------------------------------------------------
Ann Arbor Triathlon Club

Follow me on Twitter

Any chance you can show a pic of the "dremel" setup, or provide more detail? I had a Tacx before and it kept sliding down with the weight of full bottles... But for $17 I may give it another go. Thanks

Have a look at a better shot in this thread: here

about halfway down the first page...

It's easier for me to direct you to jonnyo's post/pic of the setup on a P3C. He describes how it's done in the post which is almost exactly how I did it as well. But to make it work you have to have one of the newer generation Cervelo seat posts with the holes or drill your own holes (which I've never done so I can't recommend trying unless you have extras lying around).


http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...cx%20dremel;#1803605

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------------------------------------------------
Ann Arbor Triathlon Club

Follow me on Twitter

That is a very nice, efficient, lightweight set-up. Nice bottle placement too- close and likely reasonably aero. Excellent improvisational engineering.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

you mean this?
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ring=p3c%20;#1282282

just posted it in April...2007 ;-)

if I could come up with it and do it myself, everyone can do it, because I have zero bike mech skills

Exactly, I had seen your pictures too and used those when I was working on my own. Unfortunately, when I searched for 'tacx dremel' in this forum I only got jonnyo's post, not yours.

But I agree, this is probably one of the easiest DIY mods out there. It seriously took me less than 10 minutes to complete.

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------------------------------------------------
Ann Arbor Triathlon Club

Follow me on Twitter

I want it renamed dammit! I'd never actually invented something (besides math junk)!

(HINT: You just have to edit that post and add the word dremel and you'll be set) :)

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------------------------------------------------
Ann Arbor Triathlon Club

Follow me on Twitter

done!

The picture with the white bracket looks like Craig just copied Beaker Concepts Hydrotail???

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http://www.procompression.com - Athletic Performance Socks
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I like my new Felt hydration rig better:

Before going any further, I want to make it clear that, as an XLAB employee, I have a biased opinion about the two products in question :) . That said, there seems to be some misconceptions about the Sonic Wing, as demonstrated by the quote above. I realize I'm a little late to this thread, but I wanted to point out a few things that set our Sonic Wing apart from the Beaker product. To start, here's a photo of the two products side by side to make it easier to see what I'll be talking about below.
The XLAB Sonic Wing is on the left, the Beaker Concepts H5C is on the right:



The main differences I'd like to emphasize are
-The H5C has one set of mounting holes, giving you two possible positions to mount the system to the seat post, as shown and also inverted. The Sonic Wing has 3 sets of mounting holes, giving you 6 possible positions, 3 up and 3 down.
-The H5C has one set of water bottle cage mounting holes, while the Sonic Wing has five sets.
-When you multiply the number of wing mounting positions by the number of bottle cage mounting positions and then double that number to account for the normal and inverted positions, you get the number of possible bottle cage locations relative to the saddle, in this case 2 for the H5C, and 30 for the Sonic Wing. There is simply no comparison, the Sonic Wing gives you many more options to fine-tune your hydration system to your personal preference.
-Both products include straps for carrying a spare tire. The H5C straps are centered between the bottle cages, leaving no room for additional accessories, while the Sonic Wing straps are slightly offset to one side (unfortunately not shown above), allowing room for the Sonic Nut to be installed as an easily accessible way to mount CO2 cartridges and inflater. With the Sonic Wing you are not limited to one or the other, you can carry a spare and still have your inflation tools handy.

All of this should make it clear that the Sonic Wing is anything but a "copy" of any Beaker product. Hopefully this clears things up a bit.

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Damon Vinje
xlab-usa.com

I got the tire bag for training rides. Is there a secret how to strap it to the sonic wing? The buckles on the straps do not fit through the holes on the sonic wing. I had to unthread them and then rethread it though the buckles. Is there an easier way because now when I take the bag off for races I have to go through the same process.

THanks

By the way I like the new products.

Any new opinions or comments about this system? I'm thinking of getting this for my P2C.

Where is the website that sells the decals on it with your name and American flag? Tim

Haha SoJo! I like the bike