We all know Greg LeMond should have won...

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...i?post=913791#913791

Jan Ulrich was robbed!

Actually in the 1996, top 10, only Luttenberger has never been associated with some doping scandal. All the others have...and then for Luttenberger it could just be because I don't remember ;-)

Hmm...is Virenque going to be removed from the list of winners of the polka-dot jerseys now too?

Oh wait, I forgot...he's French. Never mind.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yes, yes, it's a vast french conspiracy blah blah blah...yawn...

That will sure help more high profile cyclists (or any other sport) come out of the dark on doping practice. Or not !

I loved how the top 4 in the 96 were accused or proved guilty

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Nope...just a vast French hypocrisy...but I think you knew that ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

At least, the French test their athletes, unlike the BS tests in NBA, NFL and MLB...'hey, we're coming in 3 months, get ready'.

Virenque kept his polka dot jersey because he only admitted to doping in 98 on the Tour. Tour where his entire team was asked to leave. The treatment he received in France wasn't any good, just so you know. L'Equipe is happy to bash anyone on doping. It sells.
Riis was asked not only by ASO but also by the UCI to give his jersey back. He admitted to doping during the tour, outside of the 8yrs or 10yrs to do something about doping. So, legally they can't do anything.

Hypocritical? no...cynical regarding doping? you bet...rightfully so I may add...

Had Riis say something along the lines of what Zabel said 'I tried 3 weeks, didn't like it', he would be fine...Zabel got away with it...saying I tried from that time to that time, like Virenque did...we all know it's BS...but there are no more proofs...

Riis (and others) had to know that this would be the response. I guess I still don't know why Riis came forward. He hurt himself, his country and his team. What did he gain? I can appreciate that he sleeps well at night and that he wanted to do what was right, but is that a good enough reason when you know that there are many others out there who did/are doing the same thing. Did someone have proof?

The last question you ask is really what I am wondering...There was no reason for him to say this...

wrong.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6744864

Riis gained, self respect, my respect, and contributed to human knowledge.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

We actually did the math out, and I believe that SlowTwitch's own Mark Montgomery may at least be a podium finisher, if not the winner of said TdF.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

LOL!

An article on doping on the NFL site! that sure isn't biased... ;-)

BTW...where does it say that they don't get warnings as to when they are tested for steroids? I didn't see it anywhere...failing 3 drug tests gives you a one yr suspension...and you're warned ahead of time when they test you...wow...really have to dumb to fail...

That's the 1956 TdF for Mark...Remember...when he was racing, they had their spares around the shoulders, they ran in converse shoes, and most roads didn't have asphalte (it's because cars were still rare)

"However, with steroids, performance might be enhanced. Thus, each week players are given random tests for steroids. A computer will randomly select six players, on each team, each week, to be tested. To show how random the test is, my HBO partner Dan Marino said he was tested eight times in one season."


See it now? In the 1970s and 80s steroids were a big problem in the NFL, but I believe the league is much cleaner now. I have friends in the league that would support that statement. No it isn't unbiased, but you have no proof to support your claim and I in fact have something to stand on.

OK. Missed it...Yet, it doesn't say that it's really an out of competition test. Do they just show up at the player's door? Or is the player told on monday: you've been picked, we'll come on friday? that would give ample time (even 72hrs) to fix things.
Also, suspensions are what? 4 games, 6 games and one year?
Other sports: 2yrs and life.

now...how about growth hormone?

Now, I have friends/acquaintances in cycling that swear they never doped....

In the 1970s and 80s steroids were a big problem in the NFL, but I believe the league is much cleaner now. I have friends in the league that would support that statement.

Yeah, they're even bigger and faster now than when they were on steroids. They must be clean...

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

We actually did the math out, and I believe that SlowTwitch's own Mark Montgomery may at least be a podium finisher, if not the winner of said TdF. \\

Pretty funny, but I do have to say that it does piss me off now that I know for sure that I was racing against heavly doped athletes. A thread awhile ago about Redlands was a good example. I mentioned that a famous British rider was popped for doping back then, and I caught a lot of shit for that, until I finally found the article that outed him. People had a blind eye back then, and even I just thought it was isolated. In one sense it does make me mad, because I did pretty well against those guys, and I was clean, but on the other I guess I was just a lot better than I thought I was..I will just have to hold onto that thought I guess, that I would have crushed those pencil necked roadies, and not the few top 10 finishes I got over the years in the pro. 1,2, races.......

Right and THG was the ONLY synthetic steroid completely unknown to drug tests due to its obscurity. do you really think those guys are clean? If they have a good lab working with them, there are seeminly limitless ways to manipulate compounds to achieve the steroid effect and be undetectable at the same time. They cannot test for substances they do not know exist.

I'm not so sure about Zabel. Other sources within Telecom said that some people were juiced but not Zabel. His admission that he tried it but then had such adverse side effects may be true if you consider this.

72 hours is not enough time to correct things for most steroids.

Unless correcting things involves a fake penis with clean urine in it.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

There is a store in East Lansing which sells those! "In Flight" it's a store for stoners. They have bongs... excuse me... glass tobacco pipes and all sorts of other stuff.

There's also "The Whizzinator" that an NFL player was caught with during a security check at an airport.

They should give the yellow jersey to Peter Luttenberger!

Um . . . his first name is Peter, right? I hope I'm not thinking of some other Luttenberger.

There is/was another store in the Lansing area where you can get the stuff that would require you to have a filled fake phallus.

Doping for dummies. Nice.

So what do they do in the event of a blood test?

artificial viens? I don't know, I've never had to worry about passing.


-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

It sounds like people around here are so angry that our sports (mainly, cylcing) are so riddled with drugs that you are looking to point the finger at someone else and say it isn't just us. Well the bottom line is you don't know if it is or isn't. I am standing on proof and you are standing on a festering turd of pure speculation. They must be on drugs they are bigger, faster and stronger than 20 years ago.

Yes, players are bigger, stronger and faster its a natural progression! Just like doctors are doing more amazing things. It is a function primarily of two things: A) larger pool of talent B) earlier sport specific training and development

With regards to A) as money grows the league grows and more kids are motivated to live the dream B) look around high schools now. The days of the triple sport athlete are dwindling. You have people playing or training for one sport all year round as early as 10 years old.

You can't say one sport is clean while the others are not. Athletes in every sport are breaking records as fast if not faster than in football. So I assume you believe every sport is filthy.

I have to admit that I was not unlike many Americans in that I was a bit naive about the level of doping in the pro peleton, and even more naive about the participation of American athletes. Not so any more. Honestly, if I were French (which I am...sort of...folks came over in 1600), I would be pissed too. The French have a very aggressive testing program. If you knew that your guys were not getting results because everybody else was doped, wouldn't you be pissed? I can understand the push to expose the dopers, even if it seems a bit hostile at times.

Did anyone see the article on velo news about the raids on the Quick Step team's homes. Supposedly several arrests. Another team to be excluded from the Tour???

Mike

I think I remember Phil Liggett saying rather famously somewhere that if Lance Armstrong is found to have ridden dirty that he would wash his hands of cycling altogether. I wonder what he, and other high-profile media people think about this Hamilton/Landis/Basso/Zabel/Riis situation? Add Virenque and Millar and I'm just about ready to hang up my interest. I know it's shite to bag a sport because of a few bad apples, but it makes me think about all the guys I knew growing up who rode their asses off just to make some of the smaller US Classic races, and never even had a chance on the international stage because they didn't have the resources to dope.

Truthfully, for French riders to dope now, if they belong to a Pro team, it's pretty hard with a 'suivi longitudinal'. The French Anti Doping Agency tried to impose a similar process for all riders but it failed unfortunately.
That said, I don't think we have many really talented riders right now anyway, so I still think someone not french would win the tour...
Before doping, fancy bikes etc. the main thing remains to have a truly gifted rider. Armstrong, Ullrich, etc. were truly amazing riders, doped or not. France doesn't have a Hinault or an Anquetil at the moment.

So I assume you believe every sport is filthy.

Ding ding ding!!! Absolutely, at least every endurance or power sport. Beta blockers in the ones that require a steady hand.

You can't honestly believe that the "American" sports are clean..."football" and baseball are amongst the worst because of the money involved. If you can make a shedload of cash playing a sport and just need that bit extra to get there, most athletes seem to be able to justify it to themselves, often on the grounds that "everyone else is doing it" or "this stuff isn't even banned (yet)". I don't see this "proof" you're standing on, a lack of failed tests is nothing of the sort with the labs being way ahead of the testers and the adminstrators running a half-assed testing program however they might try to spin it as otherwise.

If you wanted to make a case for curling being clean I might believe you. You need drugs to watch that one :)

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Oh, and by the way, there is no father christmas

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

More money means filthier.

Operacion Puerto has 200 athletes listed. 50 pro riders. Not one athlete of the other 150 got any problem whatsoever...not one...even though there were a few names that came out that were really well known (zidane, ronaldinho, nadal for instance...)

Yeah, cycling's a mess but at least theytry to tackle it and do so in public. The really big money sports that run their own programs just sweep it under the carpet to keep the cash rolling in.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

[reply]Oh, and by the way, there is no father christmas[/reply]

Leave it to a Pommie to disappoint everyone.

Only those who think Barry Bonds is Father Christmas and the Virgin Mary rolled into one saintly figure...

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

I don't know an mary who's a virgin

Actually I emailed the NFL and MLB about their drug policies b/c neither is posted on their website (like it is on the UCI). I asked which drugs were tested for vis a vis the WADA list and I recieved a "thank you sports fan" generic type email that told me to write the respective league and they would send me a copy of the program. I think Collinsworth is a little overexuberant here and the leagues simply don't do as much testing, nor punish as hard as the UCI. Comparatively speaking, before and after every game, various athletes would be tested, including all those who scored a touchdown, hit a home-run, threw a no-hitter, etc, especially during the playoffs/championships. There would also be a lot more out of competition testing that would occur too. It really is hard to say that the NFL, MLB and NBA are focused on the doping problem when they don't do enough testing to find out if they have one.

I have read several places, one I believe was Carl Lewis's autobiography, that 12 hours is more than enough time take diuretics, then intake a buch of water, to reduce the detectable content in the blood the amount necessary to pass a drug test.

So 72 hours seems very long.....

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2015 USAT Long Course National Champion (M50-54)

As far as I know nobody has made any great strides in weightlifting or nutrition science since 1970, aside from drugs.

Read old bodybuilding or powerlifting books. There is basically nothing new.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Whether that truly worked in his day, i do not know. That will not work today, they will ask you to retest if your urine is diluted like that.

[reply]
I have read several places, one I believe was Carl Lewis's autobiography, that 12 hours is more than enough time take diuretics, then intake a buch of water, to reduce the detectable content in the blood the amount necessary to pass a drug test.

So 72 hours seems very long.....[/reply]

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

look around high schools now. The days of the triple sport athlete are dwindling.

One more thing....if you look around American high schools now you see that the days of the athlete are dwindling, mainly because the size of the kids is doing the opposite.

But the NFL provides an opportunity for the 300lb lardass who lifts a bit and can run for 3 seconds to get paid as a sportsman, now that's the American dream...

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

ouch

provides an opportunity for the 300lb lardass who lifts a bit and can run for 3 seconds

Didn't you just describe the Highland Games??

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Didn't you just describe the Highland Games??

LOL, not much money in that though. it should probably read 300lb drunk on scotch ginger lardass in that instance too.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

I think single malt is considered a PED according to the Highland Games rulebook, to bring the thread back on topic.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

maybe they should change the TdF into a charity event...

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�The greater danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.� -Michelangelo

MoodBoost Drink : Mood Support + Energy.

Of course buckfast tonic wine is actually the drunk drinker's drink of choice among the antisocial Scottish cognoscenti...they're too drunk to take part in anything even vaguely resembling a sport (i'm not sure about american football though...)

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Jesus, you two should work on the Kennedy assassination case. You are both throwing out bullshit like you sit in locker rooms and stick needles in players asses. You know nothing, you suspect everything. god I hope you are never on any kind of jury.

Testing people after every game is not the same as testing after every track meet or endurance event. Take basketball for example, you are going to test every player 81 times per year plus the playoff games. Baseball players get 162 tests per year. Even football, 16 times per year. That is a hell of a lot more than ANY endurance athlete or track and field athlete.

I thought (not positive) that the NFL tests both in and out of season as well. I am not claiming the NFL is 100% clean, I am just saying I don't buy into the rabid steroid use that everyone on here claims. I think it is more petty hatred and jealousy for athletes that make a lot of money for their talent.

The NFL has its problems, but I am not sure steroids are the biggest issue. Baseball is embarassing itself, no doubt.

LOL....we hit a nerve footie fan?

OK, OK, I'll agree the NFL is clean (laughing inside my head)...

Petty hatred and jealousy for athletes...yeah right...a lot of athletes in the NFL...

[reply]Truthfully, for French riders to dope now, if they belong to a Pro team, it's pretty hard with a 'suivi longitudinal'. The French Anti Doping Agency tried to impose a similar process for all riders but it failed unfortunately.
That said, I don't think we have many really talented riders right now anyway, so I still think someone not french would win the tour...
Before doping, fancy bikes etc. the main thing remains to have a truly gifted rider. Armstrong, Ullrich, etc. were truly amazing riders, doped or not. France doesn't have a Hinault or an Anquetil at the moment.[/reply]


I wonder if it possible you don't have any talented riders now because they are not doping and the others are?

Even football, 16 times per year. That is a hell of a lot more than ANY endurance athlete or track and field athlete.

Saint Lance was tested a lot more than you're suggesting, he was an endurance athlete I believe. You need to have out of competition testing as well as before and after games, both random and important (playoffs, finals etc) if your program is to address the various types of PEDs utilized and be more than a bit of token PR window dressing.

If I was a pro athlete I would happily be tested every day in order to avoid competing against people on PEDs and remove the temptation to "keep up". This seems to be the way pro cycling is heading.

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

OK, OK, I'll agree the NFL is clean (laughing inside my head)...

Typical French surrendering :)

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

[But the NFL provides an opportunity for the 300lb lardass who lifts a bit and can run for 3 seconds to get paid as a sportsman, now that's the American dream... ]

I love it!!!!!!! Sweeeeetttttt......

Cheers,
Fred.

Ignorance always hits a nerve.....really wish it didn't.

Tell us when you're back from Neverland and say hi to Peter for me will you?

That was one of the first things I noticed when Puerto broke out, and I am still dumbfounded to explain UCI's masochistic obsession with self-flagellation. The same question that people ask of Riis can be asked about the UCI: what do they gain by publicising drug use within the sport?

You have been involved with cycling for a long time -- do you have an explanation?

John

I hope you didn't spend a ton of money on a widesceen HDTV to watch the NFL on...you won't be able to see too well with your head up your behind

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Forget speedwork. Speedwork is the icing on the cake and you don't have a cake yet. - MattinSF

Basically they have 9 tenants, live life to the fullest, do not turn the cheak, and embrace the 7 deadly since. - TheForge (on satanists)

Come on, we all know French vignerons are behind all of it. They want to go back to the good old time when cyclists used red wine in the Tour as main doping substance.

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Francois-Xavier Li @FrancoisLi
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." George Bernard Shaw
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