Is that he made his employees and members get vaxxed a plus of his credentials?

Well, he summited Everest, so there is that....................

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Sure it does, means he is smart and has empathy for his clients health and well being. And that he can cut through the political bull shit and make good decisions for his company too. Running a big company is not a democracy, and hard choices have to be made by just one person often..

I wish him all the luck, kind of wish he came from our ranks, but sometimes outside can be good too...

+1 Monty

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tinman

Thanks, I thought Ryan wrote the article, guess not. I respect your take on what it means, but I’d argue he went WITH the political bull shit, not cut through it.

I do agree it’s a business and someone, or some people, need to make hard decisions to what is right, just hope the company you are working for has a smart person or people at the helm. Last, I don’t care if he was a triathlete, I care more about what he has done and HOW he did things.

It's neither a plus or a minus of his credentials. It exists.

I'd make the argument that he made the best decision for his business at the time, given who his clientele is and what they do. You're welcome to disagree with that.

Ultimately I'd like to get him on the podcast and see what the hell happens. But that probably isn't going to happen in Week 1 on the job.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

I'm going to go to the now viral podcast with Aaron Lutze ala Red Bull marketing https://www.youtube.com/...x60xDjgk&t=1758s I do care about your past and what you have done. But tell me now, how are you going to make the experience better, what are your ideas today. Thats what I want to know as "we" should want to know. Better race coverage? lower fees, more swag, increased coverage without cost increase, tell us more!

Hey Ryan, thanks, appreciate the honest response.

Looking forward, as I assume most are, to learning about him as a person and what he has done and where he will take IM moving forward.

There's no vaccine for entrenched anti-science. Describing a requirement to get a vaccine as political bullshit is ironic given the widespread use of HRMs, power meters and supplements. Of all people triathletes should back the science.
Scott DeRue seems like a great choice just as Monty said.

Interesting!

I'm a little surprised to see an outsider take the role, not a VP in waiting somewhere in the Ironman organization.

Also Interesting he comes from a fitness center background. I'm curious if we'll see some tighter gym associations with Ironman in the future. If they are hoping to grow their customer base, that's probably the best clientele to pick -- people already committed or addicted to paying to exercise.

But I wonder if the fact that he's a big runner has more to say about the future of Ironman (ie UTMB etc race development).

Regarding the covid stuff, the guy was managing a business which was being shut down due to panic over spreading covid. I don't blame anyone for panicking about covid, but as we've seen the widespread vaccination campaigns didn't really have the effect the smart people all group-thought. (Ie, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan cases skyrocketed ad soon as a largely vaccinated population opened up). So his shot policy was due to misunderstanding about the vaccines capabilities (some might say misinformation).

Even knowing what we know now, the socio political situation still wasn't exactly easy. I'm sure global gyms like this were ready to bend the knee and kiss any rings necessary to open up and avoid closure. Hard to really fault people for not taking a futile stand with investor money.

I do smile and tremble a little at the people who think the lessons to learn from the pandemic is to just be even more totalitarian and do it even faster as well next time. More was done than ever before in mankind's history, the global economy is still reeling. Workforce and productivity damaged for a likely generation. Supply chains overloaded and fractured or broken. Countless health and mental health affects. And some people think we just next to do more of the same but harder and faster "next time".

Hopefully DeRue isn't that sort, but if he is he's in good company.

i read from the st article that he worked in luxury lifestyle that could give you an indication about lower fees.

Litigating the Covid vax issue in 2024 is like talking about the weather or someone’s golf game—about the most boring and tedious conversation someone can have.

I’m sick of hearing from both the don’t-tread-on-me type, and the I’m-still-wearing-a-mask-outside type. Just STFU with this topic and move on.

Precisely my take too.

The everest reference I find interesting.
You don't get onto Everest these days without coughing up a big wedge of $$$ - it's not the pioneering days of Bonnington, Boardman, Scott, Haston, Tasker etc. It's a big expensive $$$-centred business with big expensive fees to pay to play.

There are a lot of similiarities to draw between current Everest climbs and current Ironman.
At the pointy end there are some amazing athletes and skills.

Both also have a similar attraction to people who have not done the training, don't have the experience from less challenging events / mountains, and are woefully prepared and a liability when the conditions change for the worse.

But it makes Ironman costs look like chicken feed for a 1-and-done event.

i would like to comment that iam not ok that our new ceo does not wear an ironman t shit in the pic of the front page article

All due respect to the other podcasts out there the one I do want to hear him being interviewed by is The Triathlon Hour with Jack.

The other podcasts will certainly tee him up with BS questions. I don’t want to hear anyone jerk this guy off. lol doesn’t sound right but true..

DeRue is a heavyweight in the field of organizational behavior, and still actively publishing: https://scholar.google.com/...s&sortby=pubdate

I've actually never seen someone in a full professor and dean position go into a CEO role - it actually looks like he was president of Equinox while simultaneously a dean at U of Michigan. Prior to his academic career, he was in private equity, so that experience and his expertise in leadership and high-performing teams looks pretty interesting to me.

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

There is a press release here: https://www.linkedin.com/...7157839861096370176/

Rest assured that his role is to grow the brand (inflate the value, no matter the cost), nothing more!

Where the North American race calendar has been cut down to almost nothing now (compared to 10 years ago) - one may wonder where the owners (Advance & Orkila) are looking to find this growth, in the next 3-5 years (before they sell the brand again) ?

I agree with you. The more that comes out about all the adverse effects and how utterly ineffective the shots were, I'm glad I never took them and I never will.

Other people want to do it, more power to you. But I will not work for anybody that tries to force me to be an unwilling participant in an experiment.

"heavyweight" is a big stretch. let's not get carried away here.

this is an oddball hire. he is an academic and my experience is that academics fail miserably in the real world (hence, why they stay in academia). it looks like he dabbled in consulting for a few years after getting his phd and has been in academia since 2007. his private equity work looks like nothing more than a side hustle a lot of professors do to make more money. it's not like he was a partner at apollo or kkr. he stepped down from his academic jobs in 2021 to take the president job at equinox. i am very curious how equinox has done in the last 3 years (i have heard that they have bounced back well from the covid closures but i don't know if that's right). i belonged to equinox for nearly 20 years (i quit in 2019 after an enormous monthly increase even though i only used the gyms sporadically and belong to another better gym) and they had a great product but had expanded too much. he comes across as a self-promoter who brags about things that people in the know know are not that impressive but those types tend to have success in life (at least initially).

i do think that IM is a mess so an outsidef-the-box hire might be what is needed to fix things. i wish him well and hope and he can right the ship because it needs righting.

I would say they are more than likely looking outside triathlon. Sure looks like Ironman is on the road to attempting a classical brand evolution - take historical equity and sprinkle it on adjacent, or non-adjacent business models. Ironman becomes a luxury lifestyle brand, with branded experiences that challenge you to go beyond what you think possible.... "whatever that means".

Sure, that's still Kona. Or UTMB. Or new gravel series. But could that be a $3K a night expedition in Patagonia?

Or...

Has anyone seen what the private equity owners of Sports Illustrated are doing? They're firing all the journalists and investing in high-end experiential resorts: https://siresorts.com/.

The currency today is about access.

Or maybe not. Sure seems like where this is heading, though.

Fyre Fest by Ironman

Indeed - Ironman racing is a dead horse, from a growth perspective.

If you look at a (3 months old) achievement from Scott DeRue at EQX, this smells a lot more like: Digital, Personal Wellbeing, Longevity

Yes, an "academic", but in the business school realm, which has not been IMs past. Hopefully a person versed in business as opposed to the other backgrounds will have some good insights long lost at IM.

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Kiwami Racing Team

Well, he is not a triathlete so he hasn't finished an IM, therefore he has not earned the privilege....................

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Agree. Its 2024 and I'm so over the covid crap from all sides. The people who are still talking about it all the time (on both sides) have some serious mental issues. Covid wasn't nearly as bad as it was made out to be at the time (over-reaction), but the vax wasn't that bad, either.

Time to move on with that stuff and focus on important things like work and training ;)

At this point I don't know how a single CEO stands by their vaccination mandates for the employees or customers. Wish him well.

Make Expos Great Again!

ETA:

Also, I find this thread hilarious and how the focus of the UTMB stuff which is...well it's a minuscule amount of stuff when it comes to WTC's running pedigree. You guys know Ironman owns Rock 'N Roll Marathon, right? Those events have upwards of 20,000 people register. At this point running is in their DNA and the minority stake in UTMB is just an addition, not an evolution.

A Business School professor that worked in private equity on the side, sounds like a value extraction exercise. Andrew at least had a legitimate sports executive pedigree. Albeit in ball sports and not individual sports, yet AEG was the promoter of Tour of California, so he understood bike racing. If you guys hated Andrew, this guy sounds worse.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Whats fascinating is that Messick pushed his pro series increases though before departing. The new CEO inherited a company that doubled down on pro racing.

I would assume the first thing a new CEO like this would want to do is cut back on the pros even further.

The pros all have Messick to thank for giving them a one year shot. Make it worth it. Hype up your races, self promote, give the crowd a show, turn out for media interviews, make Ironman see your value.

Because next year this new CEO is going to be wondering what's the quickest way to cut a few hundred grand in expenses and where do you think he'll look?

Ironically, all you Ironman pros, when you say your prayers next time, make sure you give thanks for Messick.

Did a touch of weed whacking in the thread this morning and, thanks to our forum architecture, it removed a couple posts as collateral.

To your point in re: Pro Series—I don’t think that’s where they’ll pull money out. It’ll be the non-Series races that will be AG only, IMO (purely speculative).

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Just so we’re clear: something that killed 1.1 million people in the USA “wasn’t nearly as bad as it was made out to be?” How many people dying makes it really bad in your opinion?

I agree that we shouldn’t dwell on it nowadays but that statement is just ludicrous.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

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I think Ironman will keep putting money into the Pro Series as long as the PTO is putting on their series. If the PTO folds then there is no longer the need. I also agree that there will be a scaling back of Pro races that are not part of the IM Series.

"People <65 years old have very small risks of COVID-19 death even in pandemic epicenters and deaths for people <65 years without underlying predisposing conditions are remarkably uncommon." from "Population-level COVID-19 mortality risk for non-elderly individuals overall and for non-elderly individuals without underlying diseases in pandemic epicenters" - PubMed (Population-level COVID-19 mortality risk for non-elderly individuals overall and for non-elderly individuals without underlying diseases in pandemic epicenters - PMC (nih.gov))

This is just one of the first references I came up on this subject. As my point made, covid wasn't as dangerous as they made out. If you are healthy then you don't need to worry about it. Also as I said, the vax isn't/wasn't bad, either. Anyways to each their own ;)

Please stop with covid and vaccination discussions...
Could we just discuss Scott DeRue please.

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https://acprestation.se/

Agreed, enough is enough.

Agreed, that'd be swell.

I'm keen to see what this guy tries to grow the business, which appears from the outside to be moribund. It doesn't seem like an easy job, and I'm skeptical that he can arrest or shake off the decline in popularity of [Ironman] triathlon.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

Uh, his decision to force his employees and his members (if they wanted to use the facilities) to get vaccinated is a huge part of who he is as a senior executive. It is incredibly relevant to his views on health as well.

Ironman is an outdoor recreation company and activity.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

There's a few obvious spots. There's surely room to charge even more for IM events. People willing to pay $900 are surely willing to pay $1000. There may be some price stickiness at the 1k mark but as soon as it gets past there I could see prices at $1200 in the next few years. A 30% price increase doesn't mean 30% growth but it does get you part of the way there.

They also have that XC thing where you can pay a few thousand extra to have your hand held around the course. I'd look for lower tiers of that. Maybe you don't get your own personal concierge, but give them things like priority check in, earlier swim start, entry to sold out races, priority bike racking, all for a price. I bet people would pay $100 to have a 1h early start (an thus longer cutoff), there's probably some logistical challenge to that tho. They could also go down the tech-company route and make the base product increasingly worse until the only real option is to buy upgrades. Less aid stations, mandatory Tuesday check-ins, etc

How about this one, got the idea from USAT: KONA Qualifier Fee - $120 to be eligible for Kona VINFAST WC Qualifying Slot, to be added to your Kona entry fee if you do qualify.

Call me cynical, but they're not bringing in someone new to make their product better for the users. They want returns on their investment. If that meant gutting the product and crippling triathlon as a sport then that's what they'd do.

Now I will tread carefully here, bearing your ST-handle in mind 😊 but my own growth-math on a price increase (as you suggest) would be this:

• Let say that Ironman raise the price on all races by 30% in 2024.
• Then how are they going to achieve that same 30% growth in 2025?? Raise the price by 30% again?

The PEs owning the brand (and the buyers looking to take over the brand), are looking for scalable, sustainable and fast growth - year over year.

Yes, you're correct that a 30% price increase one year only boosts the year-over-year growth for that year, just throwing out the number as a theoretical max price people may be willing to pay. You don't have to bump it up all in one year, do 10% over 3 years, 5% over 6 years, etc (I know that math isn't exactly 30%).

But you also assume that the buyers are specifically looking for 'scalable, sustainable, and fast growth'. Ultimately they (should be) looking for a product that brings a higher risk adjusted return than they can get from the wider market. And the current owners know that as well, so they can both massage the numbers and be salesmen to show their expectations for the future. Spin it to say "we increased rates 30% this year, and research shows we can increase it another 10% next year". Which of course is always a bit trite, owners sell when they believe the company is overpriced, buyers buy when they believe the company is underpriced.

I don't think the growth is in raising the prices of the core product.

It's going to be in the ancillary stuff (e.g., Equinox's model isn't just the gyms. It's the personal training / coaching business that really rakes in the dough) where they look to extract additional value. More "touchpoints" with consumers.

And I have $10 on them launching some type of membership model that ties into AWA somehow. Especially given how many people were *very* mad at USAT earlier this month.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Although I strongly disagree with his decision on that subject, as a CEO he had a responsibility to get clubs in major metropolitan areas to reopen as soon as possible and that was the only option at the time. So in that context I can understand his thinking. I don't believe it has any bearing on how he plans on running a major events company.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

That's what I was thinking in the earlier post, too. They already have a Saturday checkin option for ~$100. Early start, skip check in lines, personalized aid stations, etc, basically tiers of the XC program.

Doing AWA by entry only seems right up their alley. $200/y to be eligible for AWA status, not only do you artificially boost rankings, but you can send out emails: "Congratulations! You've earned IRONMAN ALL WORLD ATHLETE status! Follow the link below to claim".

They would have to offer some additional benefit for being AWA, right now there really is no perk beyond a different registration line and colored swim cap.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Uh, his decision to force his employees and his members (if they wanted to use the facilities) to get vaccinated is a huge part of who he is as a senior executive. It is incredibly relevant to his views on health as well.//

So your answer to Ryan and most everyone here to get off the covid stuff is just a plain NO? Maybe click on the top bar where it says Lavender room, but even there it has gotten tired and not very well received. People have moved on, perhaps you should too....

Unsolicited advice for the new CEO:

— don’t lose sight of the core product: the 140.6 and 70.3 race day experience. That is the one thing most people agree this company does well.

— address the numerous pain points in the customer experience outside of the actual racing: horrible website, terrible customer service, crappy online merchandise offering, lousy registration system, etc.

— be careful of diminishing the value proposition. Price hikes might work for the high disposable income middle aged athlete, but is a barrier to entry for everyone else. The last few years has proven the demand curve is not vertical

— improve the management of relationships with host communities. The churn rate is exorbitant.

— return Kona to a one-day coed WC format

— get creative and vary the format somehow. Try a gravel/trail run 70.3 or 140.6. Create a team event where you race as a duo. Mix it up somehow

i hate what private equity has done to this sport and to the universe in general. but...

orkila capital appears, just by observation, a divergence from the typical PE company. providence equity partners bought IM from the gills family, who bought it from valerie silk. they were the 3rd owners of this chevy. the person who drove that - and was for years behind IM, getting IM to make the changes it needed to make it grow, like owning and producing its own races - was jesse du bey, while he was at PEP. jesse was the bandleader you might not have heard of at IM and he is by no means just a passive investor. it was jesse who organized the purchase from gills, jesse who hired andrew messick, and now it's jesse almost certainly who's again hired the CEO.

after PEP bought IM jesse started his own firm, orkila capital, and was part of the purchase a second time, this time from the chinese. i'm sure it's not unprecedented, but a PE guy purchasing a brand a second time, after (presumably) already earning a boatload from the transaction the first time, says to me that maybe he sees something in this brand beyond the capacity to turn a quick buck. jesse also owns a 9:28 PR at kona.

there were options for the new CEO hire, and that included folks from the "revenue" side of IM. i'm highly critical of that side of IM and will probably have more to write about it. that this new person was chosen as the CEO, and not folks whose sole job is to separate people from their money, signals to me that jesse has something more in mind. if you look at orkila's basket of brands each brand has a deep, committed fan base and you make money by satisfying the fans base, not soaking it into increasing poverty.

so we'll see.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Super exciting! Looking forward to Ironman's growth under new leadership

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website/blog | Instagram

But you also get that digital badge that you can put on social media proclaiming you are better than (almost) everyone else.....................

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Thanks Dan for chiming in! I agree with you on all accounts.

I have worked with PE for more than 2 decades, and all I objectively say is: "This is how a growth-PE is working and what their goal/objectives are..,"

I sometimes get the feeling, that Ironman customers (some even here on ST hehe) believes that WTC and the Ironman brand is an NGO, that "has to do what´s best for their customers". No, they have to do what is best for their OWNERS. We are part of the product.

We need a "like" button on Slowtwitch.

I couldn't agree more -- which is why I found it very odd that it was included in this article. Why start out possibly pissing off a segment of your customer base?

I'm gonna skip over the anti-vax and "he's not a triathlete" arguments and just say ...

GO BLUE!!!

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

As much as it would suck, that's the one price increase I'd be in favor of -- pay X amount a year to be in the World Championship qualifier pool. You don't pay, and you're not eligible for qualifying.

The reason I'm ok with this is that everyone that races is having some portion of their race fee go towards facilitating the whole roll down thing, whether or not they even know of such a thing let alone ever be close to qualify.

If IM "needs" to raise more money, targeting the neediest, demanding customers makes more sense. If it turns off the old guard and makes Kona qualifying a little easier for those on the bubble... so be it :)

The AWA thing already works, it's been their greatest marketing ploy in recent years. I see people posting it all the time, but realistically if you race enough races you can get bronze status. That being said, those people who get gold for like one race result, you really are elite.

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Team Zoot 2023

Regarding AWA "working" I think the one thing it does is encourage some people to race an Ironman. It's all silly and not really even bragging rights because I don't brag about it. There's just something about seeing my "rank" and wondering how I'd improve it other than going from agr7-20th in my races to top 5. I'm right on the Silver/Gold bubble and the stupid ranking that I'd never look at and wonder about if it didn't exist got me noticing that if I had an Ironman score this year I'd be over that bubble.

And then my wife asks me when I'm planning to do another full... two seeds planted at the same time. I would have originally put it off another couple years, but suddenly I figure why not!

I hope he fires all the old school triathlon nepotism hires.
Rebuild the brand with people from the 2010's, not the 1980's and 1990's.

What about "Heritage?" And "Legacy?"

Nah, you're right; clean out the dust & get some sparkles!!!

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Curious about others thoughts but I don't like the fact he is coming from Equinox at all. To me Equinox represents a lot of what is wrong with the fitness industry - a flashy "gym" that caters to the elite and is focused more on social media appearance, brand deals / partnerships, and their app more than the actual purpose of the space (working out...). On top of this, they change $200+ a month, make you pay an initiation fee, and have you sign 12-month contracts. In my previous career I actually helped build out one of their locations in a major metro area and it was absolutely terrible in terms of serving its purpose as a gym. The head space clearance over the treadmills was at max maybe 2 feet and there was barely any free weights meanwhile we were flying in "aesthetic boulders" from some country in Europe for their "social gathering courtyard". IMO you look at similar priced options like LifeTime and there's just no comparison at all, LifeTime is an actual gym. I'm definitely biased as a previous LifeTime member plus my work experience but I seriously think Equinox is an absolute $ per customer business model and if anything is brought over from what was implemented there (basically price gouging their customers bc they know they're good for the money) I would be really disappointed. My biggest fear is this new guy comes in, realizes how significant the challenges of acquiring new customers to this business are, and decides to shift focus to maximizing $/customer to increase revenue, just like they do at Equinox, instead of growing the sport.

Bro you're basically describing Ironman events. Compared an Ironman or 70.3 to a regional tri, or a bike race, or city marathon even. A city marathon is probably the closest, and they're $100 and pretty much allows you to run safely on the streets for a few hours. IM events make you wear a branded wristband, walk through the expo to get to reg, make you show up two days early, bump the non optional swag up to 11 ( I don't need a new backpack everything I do a race), and have the actual venue for the race kinda meh. Always looped bike courses, always looped runs. Big on the peripheral race "experience", light on the actual race.

Very interesting.

If that can be considered a sign of changes, prices to attend the Expos has been significantly reduced.
Not sure if that's enough to encourage us to go back as attendance is much lower than before.

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Kiwami North America
http://www.kiwamitri.com
http://www.aquamantri.com
contact@kiwamitri.com
http://www.facebook/kiwamitriusa

Oh I totally agree with you, I think all of us realize that here. I'm just saying I look at the model of Equinox and I think the Ironman gouging has the potential to get even worse. Like how do we extract money from these people throughout the calendar year when they're not physically present racing at our events type of worse.

Getting money when they're not at races is something I think is coming. Companies and investors love guaranteed income. It's a big reason why subscription models are everywhere.

The pro entry allows you to pay for each event or a one year fee. I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar for AGs. Call it $400 for a 70.3 or $1000 for an IM, but for $3500 upfront you can do as many as you like.

That is waaaaaayyyyyy too close to the failed "Access" program from about 10-12 years ago. You want to talk about outrage........................

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

As my daughter calls it: "Trick or Treating for Runners" at the Expo Center before Broad Street, Philly Marathon, or Distance Run

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

I dont really know how much non-racing "gouging" they can do though. Like they can get you to pay more for your 1 event a year or extras for that 1 event a year, but it's not like they are going to be able to hold some "subscription" contract over your head. The only real contract they could hold over your head was in the fact that for years you had to register 1 year ahead of a race; so if you got hurt / family / life got in the way, you "lost" that investment. But even know they allow you to hedge that investment, and these days there are too many races to choose from, how many races are even at 1 year out registration sell outs anymore? That's been a thing of the past like before pre-covid right?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A membership fee for perks is the obvious one - access to resourses, training etc, early access to race entry (less of a perk now as you point out), staggered payments, discount at partner hotels/facilities during races (which would no doubt end up being funded by the partner).

An "elite amateur" fee - necessary for athletes looking to qualify for World Championship races.

Travel Insurance - unless they do this already?

Admittedly I've only done a few city marathons or halfs, but every time registration required walking through an expo to exit. And for both IMAZ, IMTC70.3 and IM Michigan 70.3 I didn't have to "walk through an expo". You could easily avoid Ironman Village if needed. The reason for your wristband is security of your belongings. So you're blowing that one out of proportion.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Hopefully he brings over his Equinox marketing director so we can get some IM ads that look like this:

They can't even fill world championship slots now, you think they are going to charge more for said slots (you already have to pay a "down payment" on said slot right at time of roll call)? That would not be reading the room very well....As Slowman's op-ed just wrote.....just because you can, doesn't mean you do.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

On the other hand, if 5000 people pay the $120 "Kinda Eligibility Fee" you can lose about a third of the actual Kona/Nice entries and still break even. That might ironically cull the herd enough to bring back to Kona for men and women every year. There was 2200 men racing Nice in 2023. I have to think roughly double that amount thought they may qualify, at least enough to pay $120 for the chance

I guess I need yall to talk to me through this like I'm stupid.

Right now it's not really that difficult to WC Q right? I mean yes it's hard but it's also being shown that it's only hard for certain events. So what solution are yall trying to solve for?


So this program is going to be what? The initial eligibility to qualify? Without the $120 investment, you can't KQ? So then you pay the additional "KQ" on the spot fee when you qualify at said race, on top of the already paid "initial eligibility" fee?

I guess if your trying to come up with every angle that IM can "gouge", fair enough.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

For years on Slowtwitch, it always has struck me as odd when people rush to defend IM whenever anyone criticizes some aspect of their poor management.

Now people are using this thread to propose new fees and up charges. Are you trying to get hired by them?

I realize if you tattooed their corporate logo on your leg, you have a high degree of brand loyalty, but you really want to pay more to them?

This company has misled municipalities about the benefits of hosting, behaved in a predatory manner towards independent races, and done nothing to reward their best customers other than offer special swim caps. Now this guy is going to save the company by charging more for things?

PS — the Equinox in my town is infamous as the place where the trainers will screw your wife

I asked way upthread how was he running Equinox the past 2+ years (I honestly don't know) but nobody has responded (other than the vax/non-vax sideshow). That should be the question people are asking because he is a career academic and academics usually are unmitigated disasters in the real world with real issues to deal with that do not exist in the ivory tower of academia.

Yup.

While I think it would be great if Ironman suddenly becomes a "nice" company, I think the chances of that happening are nil.
More likely they'll talk nice, while continuing as usual. See the statement from UTMB for evidence of that...

Yup, that's pretty much it. They could call it anything, but without the extra $120 you're not eligible. Cue stories of athletes making the KQ placing but not having paid the fee being denied entry and you can scare people into buying it. They could soften it and say "your $120 KQ eligibility fee is applicable towards your Kona entry".

Yes, it would be a complete money grab, I threw out probably as an idea for how IM could generate revenue growth in the coming years. That's literally the only thing that it solves.

Says as much about peoples wives as it does about Equinox & their trainers..................

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I *almost* included this link in the initial article, but didn't -- Equinox is working through restructuring its existing debt, which includes a revolver that is due tonight.

https://www.wsj.com/...-maturities-397d74a4

There was also a pretty unpopular January campaign last year. https://athletechnews.com/...uary-1-2023-message/

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

There's some nuance between "I really fucking want to get in shape" and "I really want to get in fucking shape" and "I want to get into really fucking shape"

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Hillarious! 🤣🤣
But what the wives "in his town" are really thinking, going to the gym is: "I really want to get in shape... fucking"

Let´s blame all that on the CEO... makes total sense.

It's not just the wives, either ... in my experience, female trainers - anywhere, not just Equinox - can be a little bit "predatory" towards the male clients, as well (and female ones, too)

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin