I understand the concern about it being above 76.1, but you still have the option of wearing one (with the associated limitations.) Wouldn't there be more of an issue if it was approaching the 83.8 cutoff?

For sure.
But that totally depends on one's goals.

If everyone would stop practicing peeing in their wetsuits while in Mirror Lake, this problem wouldn't exist. But nooooooo, each morning hundreds of triathletes line up for their practice sessions and make it a full swim dress rehearsal. Sigh, nothing new on race day I suppose.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

that would ruin my day

No way Steve
it would just mean a few more minutes before you pass me.
:)

They're taking temps in shallow water off the dock, I can't imagine that would serve as an official lake temp for a race.

i wish ! i lose about 3 to 4 mins per lap without a wetsuit, maybe more, i will be praying for cool weather

Interesting.

It's been a much cooler and wetter Spring in the North East, than the previous two years, when we had record breaking average warm Springs, back-to-back.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Uh, Steve - it's been hot as balls for weeks now.

Not quite the record heat wave we had prior to LP in '11, but definitely above average for what we'd normally expect.

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float , hammer , and jog

ML,

Thanks.

Weird.

It's definitely been much cooler/wetter in the Toronto area than the past two years. Perhaps southern heat, has not come this far north. But LP is not that far south of Toronto!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Yer lucky. Very lucky.

Must missed this current thread...
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...;;page=unread#unread

I think the coolest daytime temps we've had in the Hudson Valley for the last few weeks, has been low 80's.
Daytime highs have more typically been in the high 80's, to mid 90's.
(these #'s sound much less impressive in metric, but I'm sure you get the idea)

And pretty oppressive humidity, consistently.
It's basically been like a bad August, only in June and early July.

Yay, climate change!! :-p

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float , hammer , and jog

That's strange.

There must be like a line across the border or through the Great Lakes, because it certainly has NOT been like that in southern Ontario. I was in the Eastern Townships of Quebec a week and a half ago and again, it was about 70F for the highs on the three days I was there for the National Cycling Championships.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Sorry Murph, but the data don't show "hot as balls" numbers (see chart below). Below is the high and low profiles for Lake Placid for most of June. There was a grand total of 5 days (counting June 1st, which I was unable to efficiently fit in the pic but was 85) when the high temps were hotter than 80º. A majority of the days (count 15) had high temps less than 70º, leaving a total of 10 days when the temps were between 70 and 80. July highs thus far have been 70, 76, 81 with a projected high today of 80. The average high for today in LP is 78.

Now, the average human male body temp is 98.6º. But, the testes need to be kept about 4º cooler for optimal sperm production, hence their placement outside the body in the scrotum for a temp at 94. Granted that we are triathletes and prone to wearing tight fitting clothing but research shows that the testicles/ scrotum combination does a fairly efficient job at handling heat stress in tight clothing.

Therefore, your 'hot as balls' hypothesis is refuted on multiple levels and Steve's comment of 'interesting given the cool spring' remains a valid observation.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Warm weather hates Canada....

LOLZ. Thorough de-bunking.

OK - so it IS from all the swimmers peeing in their wetsuits then. Point conceded.

I guess that, since my balls are so large, they are better insulated, and thus warmer?

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float , hammer , and jog

I've not seen your balls nor received any data on their size or insulative properties (which I believe is measured in R-values, but I'm unsure what an average R-value for testicles looks like). However, I could conclude that if indeed your balls are larger than normal (genetic disease perhaps?) and better insulated, they would actually be warmer. This would place them even further away from the average temps being posted by LP at this time. :-)

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To the rest of you people freaking out about Mirror Lake temps (honest analysis now, leaving ML's anatomy aside)- I suspect that the temps are a result of the high levels of warm rain water being dumped in the ADK's this past week. Looking ahead at the 10 day forecast, the high temps are hovering near average (78º) with lows in the 50s. Further, the rains should stop. Therefore, the Mirror Lake water temperature will probably drop a few degrees over the course of the next 10 days. Of course, this is based off of current models and are suspect to change.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Yeesh. I guess my posting w// too much blood in my coffee-stream, is worse than some people drunk-posting.
I'll put down the shovel now.

OK, except to say one more thing... we were all 99.999% sure in '11 that it would be wetsuit-legal.
Granted, the forecast now doesn't look like that epic heatwave then, but it's still a good idea to be prepared for both options.

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float , hammer , and jog

I think you just experience what excessive caffeine does to me- sorry about that.

Fully 100% agree that any and all triathletes should be prepared for whatever lies ahead (I always think that everything is a trap, which is the reason I'm still alive). This includes being ready to do an IM swim sans wetsuit. It certainly would avoid the 'freakout' sessions.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I was totally unprepared for a non-wetsuit swim at LP that year. It had never happened there before, so...

Probably my biggest regret in this sport, is that I didn't plan for that potential scenario, and I ended up just winging it when we found out race am that they weren't allowed for KQ aspirants. Not that it would have salvaged my God-awful, terrible, near-death swim experience, but not having a swim skin, just in case, is something I kick myself (figuratively - with you I need to be 100% clear on these things) about a lot. <sigh>

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float , hammer , and jog

I think bigger balls would have a higher thermal inertia, and therefore take longer to heat up. Your big balls should be cool.

Sadly, I was thinking about Murphy's Law's testicles a little bit more (caffeine still hasn't worn off yet) and his size conundrum. I believe that I might have been mistaken about the effects of size in this problem. Many times in the animal kingdom, larger size equates to a greater cooling surface. For example, the ears on elephants or desert rodents allow for an increased dissipation of heat. My guess is the ML's testicles might actually be cooler that the average (both figuratively and literally) man's. Therefore, my previous conclusions about the temps relative to anatomy are likely incorrect. Murph- Please accept my apologies on many levels.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

If the temperature is 76 on July 4th, there is zero chance it will be a wetsuit legal swim on race day, it hasn't even been that hot yet.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

I hope that it is not wetsuit legal. I hope also that they stick to the rules and do not allow them - not for anyone. That in and of itself would be a heck of a wake-up call for many of the AG.


I think that if they do not allow wetsuits at LP the bike course would be a whole lot less packed up in the MOP area...and the BOP will be monstrous. That of course would make the out and back on the bike even more of a train wreck than it has been since the population of the event went over 1800.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGRNHiMN9ZI

If "they stick to the rules" they will still allow wetsuits with the temperature over 76.1F. as long as it does not exceed 83.8 and with the knowledge that those that wear wetsuits will not be eligible for age group awards or Kona slots. There is absolutely no way the lake will exceed 84F.. so once again it will be a mixed swim. I wonder how this will work with the rolling start? Will the wetsuited folks go last?

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

If it's a not wet suit legal race would I be able to wear my Skin Cooler long sleeve shirt under my tri-suit?

I need it to keep the sun off me, I much prefer wearing that then worrying about keeping enough sun screen on my arms & shoulders. I could certainly swim without it but trying to put the shirt on in transition when I'm soaked could be an issue.

Ron W.

I hope it is a wetsuit swim as the swim is my weakest event. I don't think it will change much on the bike, as the majority of people will be slower in the water, thus delaying everyone getting out on the bike. So the MOP area would simply just be pushed back a few minutes. If we have the option of wetsuit vs non wetsuit, I will always go w/o wetsuit.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Where they take the temps is everything! If they actually took temperatures in Kona and took them at the pier ... everyone would be in wetsuits!

Best of luck guys.

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The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -- A fake Albert Einstein "quote"

Sorry, no. Can not cover arms.

Thanks for the info.

Ron W.

Ron,

It will "seem like and eternity" when you're wet but really in the grand scheme of things it should only be a very few seconds. Practice a few times before hand. Perhaps you can have them scrunched up like a doughnut held with very thing rubber bands.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I did the same in 2011. Roll the sleeves into themselves. Put them on the night before and roll them down. When you get out of the water, put the donuts on and grab your bike. Over the next few miles, your arms will dry. Roll them up then.

I wonder if we could get a grassroots movement started to implore the WTC to have separate starts for wetsuit and non-wetsuit swimmers.

If tweets can lead to the overthrow an Egyptian dictator, surely we can get a safer swim start at placid, no?

Those techniques would work for arm coolers but not for the full long sleeve skin cooler shirt.

Another thought I had was to use just regular arm coolers and an old Desoto tri-suit that had short sleeves, in transition I could roll on the arm coolers as suggested.

Would the short sleeve tri-suit be against the rules?

Ron W.

I had a broken collar bone going into 2011 IMLP. I'm a pretty good swimmer for a triathlete and very confident in big surf swimming. I love storm swims.

2011 was the most scared for my life I have ever been in the water, and I have been drowned to the point of being rescued when getting certified for open water life guarding. I had wetsuit people egg beating me just at the swim start in the water. They crowded around me and made it really hard to wade. Then when the cannon went off, the first 0.25 miles was just a constant gasp for air as wetsuits were climbing on top of me. I spent most of my energy just to get air. Very scary.

I had a very disappointing swim with 1:04. I should have been sub 1 hour even without wetsuit. The fight to survive took too much energy out of me to lock into a good pace on the first loop.

Had a good bike split though. And got to run a few miles with Chris Gleason before he took off on me. Collar bone played havoc on me for the second loop of the run.

Wtc has to let non-wetsuits go first with at least a 5 minute head start. The initial 1000 yards is where the drama is.

[quote prattzc.

Wtc has to let non-wetsuits go first with at least a 5 minute head start. The initial 1000 yards is where the drama is.[/quote]
But aren't they doing a rolling start at LP this year? Don't you think if they add a 5 minute gap in there too that it may really put a lot more slow folks in the way of the fast swimmers on their second loop.

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

No. They let pro men, then pro women, then non-wetsuits all 5 minutes apart. Fast non-wetsuits are going to catch the pro women on the bike anyways, so there really shouldn't be any harm. Then let all else start rolling in at normal start time. Second loop shouldn't matter much as long as the last swimmer in gets going 5 min before pro men start their second loop.

I'm not even remotely a fish, but I gotta say -

Pansies, HTFU!

No excuses for being so reliant on the wetsuit that you're scared of the swim without it. Or at least bust out that ankle band in the pool - after using that, I'm the same speed with and without the wetsuit. I actually LOVE nonwetsuit swims for that reason - the wetsuit is nothing but another piece to get in the way of my fitness.

Well that's what they use to do but this year their doing a rolling start for age groupers just like Coeur d'Alene

"Both IRONMAN Coeur d’Alene and IRONMAN Lake Placid will feature rolling starts in 2013. Athletes will enter the water in a continuous stream through a controlled access point, similar to how running road races are started. An athlete’s times will start when they cross timing mats under the swim arch.

Originally from: http://www.ironman.com/...e.aspx#ixzz2Y7amJnT2

So I wonder if they still will have a 5 minute gap or just keep rolling the floaties in after all the other folks are away.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

This exemplifies ignorance.

Ok please clarify

Pay someone to fall right before the wetsuit clad cross the line forcing a bottle neck!!

So....you always go w/o a wetsuit then? Pretty sure you have that option at the vast majority of events.

I wish I could have a lot of do-overs in that 2011 race and would start with not wearing a wetsuit. That water was too warm.

Any opinions here on the time advantage to a swim skin over tri shorts in an IM swim? (assume a 1:05 swimmer w/wetsuit). Thanks. Peter

About 2-3 minutes

WTC should just announce no wetsuits now. weather in the high peaks has never been known to drastically change. i mean...it's not like there was 3 feet of snow dumped on whiteface about a month ago. ;)

Tupper wasn't close last weekend. I swam in an adk lake 1 hour south of LP today (not close to no wetsuit).

Its really only been hot and humid for about a week in clifton park (2 hours south).
I'm having a hard time believing this rumor. even if its true...some 50 degree nights will change things quickly.

Yeah, lake George is a little bigger and deeper than mirror lake though.

I'll be up there next week, if you're up, email me for a ride and swim (Bolton landing).

I would still be interested to hear if wtc has a plan to separate wetties versus skins at IMLP if the temps are above legal.

I just don't see how Mirror Lake is already at 76. It's not like we have had hot, dry weather in these parts (unless someone is bs'ing us).

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

true about lake george...but I'm in speculator in lake pleasant. It is bigger than mirror lake...but its not a huge lake.

I won't be surprised either way. I'd rather wear the wetsuit....just because it's easier. but my placing probably won't really change with or without it. wtc does need to have a plan though.

I'm not sure what we have going on next weekend...I'll email you later in the week.

I'd be willing to be money that Mirror Lake will be a couple of degrees below the wetsuit cutoff temp on IMLP day. With the up-and-coming forecast for the region (temps slightly below average with lows in the 50s), even assuming that the reported 76 was accurate, the tiny lake will come down.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I like your optimism :-)

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

What are you referring to when you say ankle band?? Is it a swim resistance training tool??

Thanks,

Jamie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpXgRyc6r1U

Part (but far from all) of the point of it is to eliminate over-reliance on expending kick energy to keep the legs up. You have to improve your body position without the kick with it, or you'll sink.

To my surprise, it has been by far the most useful tool for me to acquire the smoothness of the swim stroke that better swimmers invariably have. (I'm an adult-onset swimmer.) Meaning, that if you look at most beginners/intermediate swimmers, even some decently fast ones, there's a lot of extra bobbing motions in the vertical plane. Might be the head, the arms, the torso, and ESPECIALLY the kick. When you use the ankle band, since you can't offset any bobbing with an errant kick, it essentially magnifies any extra vertical-plane motion to the point that you can't even swim anymore. Once you learn to really quiet the extra motion in that vertical plane, the ankle band suddenly becomes totall doable. The real killer for most beginner/intermediate swimmers with the band is the breathing - that head goes up for air, and the legs start sinking, and then 2 cycles later, they're upright. It's also not as easy as burying the head - you bury the head too much, and your stroke will get all screwy with the band.

There was no coach that could teach me this smoothness, but my before/after band capability swim times and video really showed a big improvement, largely due to the smoothness factor.

I figure if it is a an Ironman swim and the talk is wetsuit or no wetsuit, my buddy Barry would have been commenting here.

Hey Barry, just because it is 76 now, it does not mean it will be over 76 by race day. Keep in mind that the nights are getting longer (which makes a big difference) and the nights can easily be cool.

Personally, I want the water to be 80F and no wetsuit, or 74 and wetsuit. The "in between sucks"...74-76 with wetsuit gets a bit hot. 76-79 in no wetsuit at Ironman intensity and I'm freezing over. The good news is that with the rolling start, no need to be treading water without wetsuit in freezing cold water dropping your core temp even before it starts....and before some of you guys say that 76F is fine without wetsuit, it may be depending on how what your body fat percent is and what your overall size is, but it is darn cold for smaller athletes with low body fat.

I'd be totally cool with 80F and no wetsuit. Like Kalber, my overall position probably won't change at all either way, unless it is no wetsuit at 76F. Then I will be hypothermic exiting the water. If we have cold rain on the bike on top of that, I'll probably never warm up.

Thanks

I think wet suits should be banned above 70 degrees. And even then... If the swim makes you anxious or you don't think you can handle it without a wetsuit you need to quit fooling yourself and swim more. Five days a week if that's what it takes. Look into masters swimming or a dedicated swim coach if you're still not getting anywhere. The wetsuit reliance that plagues some triathletes is ridiculous. If you couldn't head out on your bike without falling over, what would you do? Put training wheels on?

I spent years swimming with some very talented and not so talented swimmers. That includes a lot of dedicated athletes who were never going to be fast, but any one of them could hop in the water make the iron distance swim without batting an eye.

Don't believe the temps either. I looked at the dock thermometer last week and it said 80 ...NO WAY the water was 80 maybe 68 -69 no higher and it was raining like crazy which should lower the temps

Hey, all you guys who don't get cold always pull this "it should be banned above 70, or 72" or some other low number. We all have different body types. It would be like me saying, "they should ban aid stations on the run unless the temp climbs above 90F". Seriously, I could literally get by in a half IM with zero liquid in 70F because I don't generate much heat and hardly sweat. But just because I do well in the heat, does not mean that everyone should suffer.

For the record, I agree with the 5x per week swimming. When I did, I swam IM's in 56 minutes (was also a lot younger). But just because some of us need wetsuits in 70F for cold does not mean we cannot swim. Well, these days, you can say I cannot swim, as I am swimming more like 65 min, but that's an entirely different discussion and more related to neck injuries and lack of mobility.

I think people who don't know WTF they are talking about, should stop talking.
When wetsuits were not allowed for LP in '11, I, like the majority of those who went w/o, spent a half hour before the race stading around and shivering.
I was cold for the entire swim (being cold was the least horrible part of it), and it took me :30 mins of vigorous biking to finally shop my teeth from chattering.

Given that I'm a Kona finisher (and got thru the non-wetsuit CF at LP), it is evident that I can indeed make the iron distance swim sans wettie.
(it just takes me a lot longer than my normal, lame swim splits)

Kona was a lovely swim, I really enjoyed it.
LP was the worst experience of my entire multisport career.

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float , hammer , and jog

Why were you not wearing a sweatshirt for that half hour? You could have pulled it off at the last minute and tossed it on the beach. Really there is no reason you should have been standing around getting cold before the start.

BrokenSpoke

Yet, that's exactly what 100% of the non-wetsuit folks did.
I guess when it's officially "too warm for wetsuits" one doesn't expect to freeze their asses off standing around?
We needed a genius like you there, obviously.

Most of them got in the water well before the start also - I waited until just a few mins before the gun went off.

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float , hammer , and jog

I find Dev's quote below something to really think about.


"Seriously, I could literally get by in a half IM with zero liquid in 70F because I don't generate much heat and hardly sweat."

I mean, I am 6' 4", 195 lbs., 14.5% body fat of Northern European heritage. I am a MOP type guy with an occasional IM finish approaching the top quartile. On a 75 degree day with moderate humidity, I will loose 5 lbs. an hour running. I have found that an Ironman at 80 degrees (i.e. last years IMLP) adds 1.5 hours to my finishing time versus a comparable Ironman in 65 degree weather. The colder the better.

A half IM at 70F would lead to a 10 pound weight loss 2/3 of the way through the bike. Needing NO liquid to finish just boggles my mind.

Here is the reply I got from the organizers at IMLP:

"We are allowing for self seeding this year with the rolling start.
If temp is above 77, wetsuit athletes will start at the back. Should alleviate issues from 2011."

I'd really hate to be one of the last, I. E. slowest, non-wetsuited folks to get in and see the fastest wet suited folks poised directly behind me ready to hammer the swim. Kind of like starting the fastest wave immediately after the slowest wave if there is no separation built in.

YMMV,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I agree. There should be a separation between the non wetsuit race and the wetsuit participation tour if the water is above 76. I called the westuit option a tour if it is above 76 because those who have chosen that option decided to "Not race".

Also, not that it matters to me since I have a Kona slot, but slot distribution needs to be calculated based on non wetsuit racers only, and not include the touring group. As I worked in the past with WTC to create the separation between wetsuit and non wetsuit athletes, I'll call them in the next week to emphasize these points.

Dev

Dev,

How dare you accuse me of 'not racing'! Do you think that the only reason to show up to a WTC event is for a Kona slot or to 'race' against gifted athletes such as yourself? I 'race' against myself, MY past IM times, and MY goals - not yours, not STs, nobody. My $ that I paid to race MY race is just as good as your $ for your race. Sure, I had years when my goal was a KQ - but those years are behind me. I should, however, still be permitted and encouraged to race the race I would like to - within the rules established at the time I paid my race fee.

I call Bullshit on the whiners against wetsuits. A-hole swimmers are A-hole swimmers if they wear a wetsuit or not they have the mentality to swim over you. (For what it's worth, my decsion is not based on the wetsuit as a crutch - it's based on a medical concern in which the wetsuit assists with an injury keeping my scapula compressed for that swim length. I have to choose between potential overheating or potential re-injury to the shoulder. That should be my race-day choice within the current WTC rule-book of water temps.)


I had no probelm with the rolling start annoucement AFTER I paid my non-refundable race fee. But change the rules again to say if I chose to wear wetsuit I will be placed in the back of the pack? How does that concern my safety (and the safety of the slower swimmers ) as I (we) face the dangers of swimming through a hoard of zig-zag swimmers who can't site because many will be breathing to the left on a clockwise course? How is that concerned with safety (for myself and my fellow racers) as I then battle the throngs of riders that I'll need to pass on the bike course?

Is there really a 'choice' to wear a wetsuit when facing those safety concerns?

If they want a rolling start - make it a rolling start. It won't be a 2011 because they have grouped racers of relative similar ability and time in the gates. Just like 2011, set up two arches at the start - one w/out wetsuit and one with - that will delineate the KQ/age group division from the other 'racers'. Most importantly this offers the best safety solution for the slower swimmers.


Best wishes on you race. /Not in pink

Andy

We need a water temperature update to continue with the freak out.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Let me clarify a few points:

1. If it is no wetsuit and you chose to wear one, you are no longer in the race with others. You are just competing against yourself, not for awards. This means it is OK if you are separated from those who chose to race others under the no wetsuit option (and it is an option, you really don't have to take it). Sorry, you can't have our cake and eat it to
2. There are many good reasons to enter an event. One of them is racing others, another is competing with yourself. It is a free world and you can choose which one you want to be in. Nothing wrong with selecting the latter. A few years ago, I had two athletes with the same dilemma. One chose the no wetsuit race because he wanted to measure himself head to head with the top guys in his age group and had no hope for Kona, but he did not care. He wanted to measure against the top guys. I had another one, who was just outside of a Kona slot, but he did not care about a Kona slot. He trained for a wetsuit swim and wanted the fastest time for HIM. I told the former to race no wetsuit, the latter with. The latter was the stronger athlete, but it was a case of personal priority
3. As for the word "gifted", let's steer clear of that nomenclature. I'd prefer if you said, "the races is not just for people that train their asses off for 800+ hours per year for 25 years" That has nothing to do with gifted.
4. People tend to be greater assholes when they are anonymous than when they can be identified. People who are pedestrians are nice because pedestians can identify each other, and they can literally lean over and punch each other....we behave. Once they are anonymous in cars they behave like jerks. Here on the internet, we have the same deal. When people are in wetsuits they behave more like when in cars or on the internet. That's just the way we are. When we know we are accountable for our behavior we behave better in public. I don't really care what people are like. I just want them to behave.
5. I don't have an issue with guys in wetsuits swimming over my back (well I do, but I will survive). I do have an issue with some of you testosterone pumped guys (I use you in the global sense because I am sure you specifically are a gentleman in the water) swimming over the backs of small women or 60-75 year old men vying for Kona slots. They deserve a fair competion, and I'm looking out for them, not those of you who choose to wear wetsuits when they say that you're no longer part of the competiton. The people who sign up for the competition and choose not to wear wetsuits deserve slightly more privilege....and sorry if that means that with your scapula issue you receive less privilege. Looking at it from the eyes of the 115 lb 45 year old mom going for Kona, I'm giving her more priority than you. Sorry if it means that you (globally, not you specifically) don't get to swim over her back. She deserves better because she's signing up for the competition and having to compete in a harder event with no wetsuit. Just give her some space and problem solved.

 


official word is 74 deg. this morning

Here is your next 10 days:

10-Day Forecast for Lake Placid, NY
[/url]
High /
Low (°F)Precip. %Tonight
Jul 08Partly Cloudy56°20 %Tue
Jul 09Isolated T-Storms79°/60°30 %Wed
Jul 10Scattered T-Storms77°/61°50 %Thu
Jul 11Scattered T-Storms72°/48°50 %Fri
Jul 12Partly Cloudy72°/47°20 %Sat
Jul 13Partly Cloudy77°/52°20 %Sun
Jul 14Isolated T-Storms78°/56°30 %Mon
Jul 15Isolated T-Storms78°/57°30 %Tue
Jul 16AM Clouds / PM Sun77°/51°10 %Wed
Jul 17Sunny77°/53°0 %

Unless we have a heat wave in the 10 days after this set, we're in for a wetsuit swim. Then Slowman can just erase this entire thread like it never even happened!

Thanks The Beek and Dev.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Just looked at the LP extended forecast. If (<--- big word for such few letters) the forecast holds true, you guys are in for one of the best IMLPs in years, weather wise at least. High of 70. Light winds coming out of the north, I.E. small push from Wilmington/ Whiteface back to LP. Put on your PR hats.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Not that it matters, since more than 3 days out is basically a weather guess, but where are you looking at this premonition?

http://www.weather.com/...cid+NY+USNY0778:1:US

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Ah that explains it. That's still for the week before the race. :)

Anybody have a water temp update? I'm sitting around feeling pretty good, figured I need something to provide a source of anxiety.

Actually I think the next 7 days might push things over the top....you guys might want to do some 2.4 mile open water no wetsuit swims assuming you have water access.

TodayJul 14

81°F
60°F
Scattered T-Storms
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I still have faith
the night time temps are coming down....

Leaving the wet suit home.

---

Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Thanks, Dev. Anxiety restored. Taper is as it should be.

You be there this year?

Wow...that response makes no sense.

so 5 days in the low 80's followed by nights dipping into the low 50's and 40's is enough to freak out over?

Unless it is hot the week of the race...it won't matter.

now...where do i order my swim skin. ;)

A side from Kona, this will be my first ever non-wetsuit triathlon. Looking at the forecast, not much doubt it will be no wetsuits for those who wish. I will lose 6-8 minutes in the swim, but save 20 seconds by not having to remove a wetsuit. There is always a silver lining.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

This is an odd duck of a thread. Why is not wearing wet suits a big deal? I assume everyone can swim 2.4 miles with some degree of proficiency, you will just do so a bit slower, why all the drama?

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I had a wetsuit malfunction just before entering the water for a race two years ago. Consequently, I had to run up the beach, stow it, and swim in my race attire. The water was in the 78-79F range, and throughout the entire swim I had three distinct thoughts:

1.) I'm definitely swimming slower without my wetsuit.
2.) This feels so much better than wearing a wetsuit.
3.) #2 >> #1.

---

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

For me I am a weak swimmer so no w/s really hurts me. It is a race and I want to go as fast as I can. W/o a w/s I am definitely not as fast as I could be. I know it is all relative, 99% of the people will also be slower. No drama, just facts. You are obviously a strong swimmer, yes......

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

"Strong" is an adjective rarely used in reference to my swimming, Barry! :) But as you said, it is a constant all participants, at least those with aspirational desires, are handicapped with. And the I have never felt the "math" on certain people being meaningfully faster in a wet suit then not, in relation to everyone else, is a bit exaggerated. I don't think anyone receives a bonus advantage using one vs. not that is substantially different from any one else, if that makes sense.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Makes perfectly logical sense.

---

Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Bryan's comments are spot on.

That said, that little lake could dump a lot of heat in the last 5 days where temps look to be back in the 70s with nightime lows in the 40s.

I'm betting wetsuit, but planning on none.

Lows in the low 50s and high 40s would imply very low humidity levels leading to a good deal more evaporative cooling than you see with higher dew points. The associated clear night skies that will yield a good deal of radiational cooling as well. The upshot to me is that if the forecast holds true the lake will cool very rapidly and wetsuits will be allowed for all.

YMMV,

Hugh

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

^^^^THIS^^^^

---

Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Would not be surprised to see the RD out in the middle of the lake with about 10 fathoms of line attached to a thermometer to make it so. :)

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Out of curiosity, if it goes no wetties, how do they know who went without one and is therefore competing for KQ/prizes?

Do they take numbers at the start line?

Do you have to be super careful to make sure you're accounted for?

Good question

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

They'll have to keep track of what athletes are wearing wetsuits, and change their category in the computer. They may even have two mats for the two groups. Since its a WTC race, I think they'll also have to look for the non-legal swimskins (non textile, covering the shoulders and knees, or something like that). Race directors will usually move all of the wetsuits back so they're the last wave entering the water.

ya know...for a 31 x IM Finisher...and 7 X Kona Finisher...you seem to be giving up awfully fast. but hey...don't let the extended forecast change your mind ;)


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You and anybody competing in the men's 40-44 AG...please...just go ahead and leave your wetsuit's at home. No chance what-so-ever it will be legal on race day.

it's amazing what a timing chip around your ankle and a little I.T. work will do.

If wetsuits were NOT allowed anyone opting for a wetsuit would
a) Leave after everyone else has left, we chip them in that way...or leave consecutively within the race.
b) No be eligible for Kona slots or any awards
c) Would still get a finish time and medal etc...


Marc

I'm sorry to be thick, but with no time separation between those wearing wetsuits and not, how will chips resolve the difference?

Two ways:

- two chip mats: go across one mat if you're not wearing a wetsuit, the other if you are
- a body needs to write down the race numbers of everyone wearing a wetsuit

It's a lot safer to just have separate mats. Then you can download chip ids of whoever went over the wetsuit mat, and use it to update everyone into the new category. All you need to use is one mat/box that's going out at a run turnaround; there's plenty of time to use at the swim, download, clear it, and reposition.

I can think of three ways without even looking at sportstats response.

1) have two separate timing mats for wetsuit vs non wetsuit that you cross before getting in line as a way to check in athlete's. this would be a different mat than the one you cross to start your race.

2) have a small gap (maybe 30 seconds to a minute) after the last non-wetsuit athlete crosses the starting mat before allowing the wetsuit swimmers to enter the water. Anybody after that gap has a wetsuit.

3) have 1 extra timing mat to check athlete's in. let the non-wetsuits cross first to check them in...you now have all the non-wetsuit numbers. let the wetsuits cross next.

Remember that there is a rolling start this year at Lake Placid. It's already been mentioned that if the water temperature is over 76.1F the non wet suited folks with all go first followed by the wetsuited folks. I would imagine they will stop the line at least momentarily between the two groups and mark the change electronically.

YMMV,

Hugh

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Anybody willing to bet on a wetsuit legal race now?



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IF that holds we are good.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Maaaaan I just completely blew my taper plan by doing a 4,000 LCM straight swim yesterday to build my confidence for a no wetsuit swim. Now you're coming back and telling me that I probably CAN wear my wetsuit???

On the bright side, it turns out that I CAN do a 2.4 mile swim without a wetsuit.

Anybody have a recent lake temperature...... Must be close to 80.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

If it isn't 80 now...it will have to be pretty close to that by friday.

I have been largely offline for the last 7 days. I figure I should check in on this thread to get the latest Konaexpress wetsuit freak out update. The craziest thing is the guy is swimming really strong .... wetsuit or not! A no wetsuit swim probably helps his Kona Q chances!!!

Talking about me KQ...... now that is just crazy talk, plain crazy you Kona Qualifier.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

What's on deck for overtraining this weekend? How about a pre LP P8 to Champlain uphill TT on Saturday or Sunday? Cement bottles and weight jackets optional!

Last time I did LP Jean "Cement Bottles" Lacroix and I did a 2400m swim at Meech and then did 2 inner loops. One easy and one TT all the way.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

78 today.

I'm on the fence about 78F today. I would much prefer if it was over 80 and drops to 78 next week. What I don't want is that it is 78 this week and drops right to the bottom of the cutoff. Then it ends up being a really cold swim without wetsuit. I don't mind a no wetsuit swim in warm water, I just don't want one in cold water and 2-3 degrees is a massive diff for me.

76 is hardly a really cold swim. Plus, with all the piss in the water it'll increase to like 78-79 once all the nervous and overhydrated athletes have piled in.

I predict 75 on the day
those couple of low humidity nights in the 40's are going to do it
then not a day over 75 all week?
no problem.

that said....still OWS'ing in skin

I thought it would be a lot warmer. Looking at forecast sub 76 looks very doable.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

It depends on your physiology....90 F and 90 humidity is not a hot run for me, but it is for others. But I know what you are saying about all the guys peeing, but with a rolling start we don't even get that, because everyone will be on the ground.

7 a.m.
76 degrees

I saw that. I am amazed it is that low. I think we are going to be okay 10 days out and the forecast is definitely cooling for next week.

https://www.facebook.com/...mp;total_comments=42

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

it would be 76 or under on race day base on the forecast...

I like that!

---

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

Dev,

You're certainly exaggerating about your tolerance to extreme weather conditions by this statement. A temperature of 90F. with 90% RH would mean a dew point of 86.7F. and a heat index of 122F. I'd say that would be a hot run for any human being. This is a higher heat index then you'll find in Death Valley where the dew point is way lower. Dew points at Kona are pretty typically ~ 68F-70F on race day. This morning here in upstate NY the dew point was 74F with and air temp of 77F. and I was sweating like a butcher on my 6:30am ride. It's been less humid and with a lower heat index in Hawaii this month than the Rochester area.

Hugh

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

My wife and I swam for 45 minutes yesterday in Mirror Lake. There was no way we were putting on a wetsuit, it was 3pm, super hot outside, we had just finished a 40 minute slow run and the water felt warm(didn't have a thermometer so can't confirm the temperature). There were tons of tourist swimming in the water and having a great time. In the 5 or so years that I have been swimming in Mirror lake, this is the warmest it's ever felt and the only time I have ever swam the course without a wetsuit. The one thing I noticed is that from time to time, there are definitely some cold spots, some of these were close to the dock(where they'll take the temperature reading?).

We jumped in and didn't even have that initial little shock to the system from the cold water.

So, pack the sleeveless wetsuit?

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Hugh...drop it....I'm just making a point. I can deal with those hot temps better than most guys 40 lbs heavier than me. You get the point. The same ability to cool myself works against me in 76F water without wetsuit. You're just being "ST argumentative" for no reason. I can certainly deal with much more humid conditions than Kona. It really is not that humid compared to Taiwan, Japan or Korea, or Eastern India in the summer...or for that matter, Houston in July. The point is, we are all different. I'll still swim without a wetsuit in 76F water if I have to, but just saying that I'd prefer not to, just like others would prefer to not race in heat, while I would prefer if it is heat overload.

It was quite balmy this morning. I went out at around 5:45, and I began sweating after pumping a few pounds into my tires. I had sweat rolling down my glasses in the first 5 minutes of the ride.

While I'd rather the water stay warm for a non-wetsuit swim, I'm really eager for the temperatures to break after tomorrow. Getting up out of my chair should not elicit the same response as 30 minutes of highly aerobic exercise.

---

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

I only have a full :(

---

The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

I was shocked to see 83 on my temperature guage in my car at 8:30 this morning. I'm doing our club swim tonight at 6pm. I'm thinking I might need to go naked and afraid ;)

Any chance of weight gain this week will be taken care of by a quick run after the swim tonight. Or by bike commuting tomorrow. I honestly don't know how people in the south deal with this shit for months at a time.

BTW...some forecasts (depending on what website you look at) are calling for lows in the high 30's in Lake Placid this weekend.

The lake always feels (and measures) cool where the water gets stirred up. By the second loop of the swim, the water near the cable is always several degrees cooler than the water away from the cable.

---

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

I seldom get aggravated by the weather, but when I moved to NY from Atlanta, it was in the midst of these exact conditions ... and not just a week of this, but several months of this.

If the swim is going to be wetsuit legal (as I suspect it will), then I hope the overnight temperatures really plummet so that it gets down to at least 73-74F. Even the sleeveless suit is a bit warm when the water temp is hovering at around 76F.

If you're going to swim in the buff, just beware of rogue security cameras. I mean ... it's not like you'll be pooping in an alley where there's no chance of anyone spotting you.

---

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

malicious fecal distribution is no laughing matter.

Ok...maybe it is. Thankfully there's wooded area's on some of my runs. ;)

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

Assuming that swimming with a wetsuit is safer than without (arguably) ... I assume the officials will do EVERYTHING they can to ensure the measured temp is below the wetsuit temperature cutoff ... in this recent climate of increased swimmer safety measures ????
SMW

Back in 2010, I recall that the measurement was highly suspect on race morning, as the measured temperature had been safely above the cutoff for several days. By 2011, there was no way around it, and they had to concede to a mixed start.

If the temperature stays above the cutoff, but they take the small step of having separate wetsuit and non-wetsuit waves, then I don't see a huge safety differential with a non-wetsuit swim.

---

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

77 this morning. https://www.facebook.com/...mp;total_comments=52

---

Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

This would suck for the spectators and family....but I would be psyched if this holds true for race day.
SunJul 28

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CHANCE OF RAIN:60% WIND:NNW at 5 mph
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Depends on how much rain and when. Going down Keene is sketchy on dry roads never mind wet.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

I did American Zofingen Long Course in 50's and rain this spring. So, for me, nothing at LP would be remotely close to descending the mohonk in the rain. I'll take 60-70 and rain any day of the week and twice on sunday the 28th. I'll be weeping tears of joy if that forecast holds true...Dev will just be weeping ;)

Amen brother. That's exactly what I would like to see too.

I'll be upset if wetsuits are allowed. Does it really look that way?

---

Swimmer
http://www.usprotri.com/LAMASTRA.html
http://www.bodyphyxinternational.com

nice...try not to hurt yourself by running too fast ;)

77 degree lake today, weather predictions with 9 hours of rain race day... they should just cancel this silly thing

There is no accuracy with a weather forecast 9 days in advance.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

I guess there is some degree of truth there. The night before AmZof the forecast was for mid 60's and sunny. ummmmm.....yeahhhh...about that.

''This would suck for the spectators and family....but I would be psyched if this holds true for race day.
SunJul 28

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When I saw this, I knew that you were thinking with the AZ side of your brain. Good Luck in the race!

---

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Pink Sarcasm;)
Hot/cold, raining/not, wetsuit/none... I know it is just a fun topic to discuss, but you have to admit it is a bit amusing to watch all the fuss...We all signed up for a challenging day, dealing with what comes is part of the fun! Have fun, challenge yourself...

Yep, and we will deal with what ever challenges the day brings (and it always brings challenges, doesn't it.!!

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

This is what I get for racing in the North East. I should just stick to racing in the Carribbean, Nevada or in the middle of the south Pacific...Japan, Taiwan and Korea in July would be good too. Oh well. I guess this is what I signed up for. Can't be "that much worse" than Epicman 2013...then again we had IMLP 2008 and 2003 with the torrential monsoons each year. Seems like it has been 5 years since the last round so we are due as the cycle has returned every 5 years.

Dev

77 this morning. I'm guessing temps will peak this evening and then gradually come down given the forecast.

10 day forecasts count for NOTHING more than a guess, but currently calling for cool and "chance" of showers.

I did a 3800m ow swim this morning. Very fugly, I felt I was going backwards at times. If the Monday morning water temp is still above 76, I will be in full panic mode.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

A single clear night with a low in the 40s will knock that temp down below 76.1 and there are several in the forecast for the up coming week so you're golden for a wetsuited swim.

Hugh

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

:-)

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

I officially don't think there's any chance it won't be under 76 for race day based on this week's forecast.

I have to cheerfully agree. Now if we can have no rain until I am down Keene for the second time, it will be golden!!! I'll be in LP Wednesday, staying at Art Devlin's with my wife and 2 Border Collies.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

x2 on getting down Keene 2x before the rain kicks in....but that is what I said in 2008 and it started pissing rain during the swim and did not stop till 2 hours after I finished. Having said that, I'd be tickled to death if I could match my 2008 time.

The accu weather forecast sucks (too much above 76) http://www.accuweather.com/...ther-forecast/339681
Hopefully the night time lows will drag the race day temperature down.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

a 40% chance of rain in LP might as well be 100%.

Yes, I agree....as long as it is after Konaexpress get's down Keene the second time...and if the rain can wait for 10 more minutes, then I should be down the hill too!

My friend has a connection to a local weatherman here in Syracuse that will be taking the time to take a good look at the forecast on Sunday for us. Will know Wednesday and I will update then. Should be a little more accurate than the websites.

---

Internet User

Mirror Lake temp was 75° this morning. I am very confident that it will continue the downward trend the rest of this week. a few nights are forecast to be mid 40°'s.

Thursday slowtwitch meet and great at the Pub? none of the regulars were in town last year and I wound up drinking an Ubu by myself. Hopefully a few slowtwitchers will make it this year.

i saw the low's in the 40's. If it's wetsuit legal (i can't imagine it not being)...then I'm hoping the temperature drops into the low 70's by sunday.

Heading up to Lake Placid tomorrow morning...anyone have a current water temp for Mirror Lake?

74 this morning https://www.facebook.com/...mp;total_comments=79

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

I was just in the water. Regardless of what they report the "official" temperature as, it's friggin' warm! Warmer than the pool I train in. If it's wetsuit-legal, prepare to feel like a boiling lobster...

i see the temp rise friday and saturday, is that likely to take us back to 76 ?

i can live with the rain if it chooses to piss it down

Where do you swim where they keep the pool water temps below 76º?



Edit: changed 'above' to 'below' simply to make more sense in context

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---

---

Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

If you are there just go to the end of the pier. There is a small rope with a thermometer attached to the end of it. You can see for yourself the water temperature. Today it will drop for sure.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

By the way, I did not realize they have that thermometer there....did you measure the temp at Epicman LP?

Yes I did, seems to me it was around 64'ish.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Ithaca College. Amazing new pool facility there, and they keep it nice and cool, so it's great for distance sets. I've never asked a lifeguard the temperature, but I'd guess it's 74 or 75 most days.

Yup, you're right... it dropped. Storm last night, and cool air, are dropping it. 73/74 this morning. If I had to bet my life savings one way or the other, I'd be that we'll be wetsuit-legal on Sunday.

Does anybody know WTC's policy when it comes to thunder storms? Is it a go? Or, does lighting put a damper on the day?

according to weather.com it's going to be 40 tonight, 44 tomorrow night, and 51 friday night. But, Saturday should make some people's hearts skip a beat with a high of 79.

Just checked the temperature, still 74. Air temperature is 54 going to 38 tonight. 42 Thursday night, 48 Friday night, 57 Saturday night.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Dark Mark wrote:

My friend has a connection to a local weatherman here in Syracuse that will be taking the time to take a good look at the forecast on Sunday for us. Will know Wednesday and I will update then. Should be a little more accurate than the websites.

Talked to the weather guy...this is basically what he said:

---

Internet User

Quote:

My friend has a connection to a local weatherman here in Syracuse that will be taking the time to take a good look at the forecast on Sunday for us. Will know Wednesday and I will update then. Should be a little more accurate than the websites.


Talked to the weather guy...this is basically what he said:

It looks to me like you overpromised and underdelivered.

The weather websites are giving the exact same thing...
Sun Jul 28

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54°
Scattered T-Storms
Chance of rain:50% Wind: S at 7 mph
Details

You REALLY aren't considering all the triathletes that will be practicing in Mirror Lake and peeing at 98.6 degrees. 2400 of them. And then there are the friends and family not racing, but drinking at the LP Brewery and since there is no empty lot next to the Pub, there is always the Lake to pee in.

And then there is always sharknado to worry about!!!

You are right. What he actually gave me was this:

9 am 68
Noon 70
3 pm 75
5 pm 73
7 pm 70

He also said it could shower or thunderstorm at any time. So basically what the websites are saying.

What happens if there is lightning? I know at Syracuse 70.3 this year as soon as there was thunder, the race was over. Do they do that for full IMs too?

---

Internet User

I can't remember if it was Timberman or Lake Placid that it thundered and we still went ahead and raced. I think it might have been Placid 2009.

Damn, gettin' old sucks, can't remember shi.....wait, what was I talking about?

I, for one, run a little cold....so i'll be pissing in mirror lake at less than 98.6 degrees. YMMV

Well, anything less than 75 will help the wetsuit lovers...

Of course, if you are ANY friend of GCG and ML, than you drink that dark LP stuff and you are more likely to leave a steamer/floater in the pristine waters of Mirror Lake.

you bring up a significant advantage of non-wetsuit swims.

Pro-tip: never swim over to a man isolated from everybody else during the warm-up.

i raced that day. i'm pretty sure i still have the trisuit burn to prove it.

john

Just stepped outside and it's chilly. My forecast: chance of cold and wet followed and/ or preceded by warm and dry...or wet. Either way, there's an Ironman on Sunday.

---

-----------------
Dale Stephanos (Formerly PappaD)

I raced 2011. It was hot as balls on the run. Not as bad as imnyc last year. That was stupid humid....

71 degrees this morning.

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Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman

Sounds like perfect race conditions; wetsuit swim, cool temps and some rain (hopefully during the run). Have at it.

As usual, it's the spectators that will have the worse of it. Buy your sherpas a nice dinner tonight, quit complaining to them about the forecast and remind them to take an umbrella.

Yes, Monsoon 2008 has left a scar ;)

Indeed. STFU, and GET SOME.

This is IRONMAN. PantyMan (tm) is having their event elsewhere.

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float , hammer , and jog

Yup. Weather can vary at LP, I remember descending into Keene on the second loop in a downpour in 2002 and then the run being a humid steambath on River Rd that same afternoon after the sun came back out.

Have fun everyone, it is an awesome race!

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

short of sleet and ice, nothing could possibly be worse than st croix...or amzof...or epicman...or any number of my training days this year. the weather looks awesome to me.

Good luck everybody!

Must've freezing up ther, it's 51 degrees in Shandaken this morning.

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''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

What typically happens if there is lightening during the ride or run? Weather report suggests scattered thunderstorms tomorrow.

typically you end up getting wet.

T-storms tend to be more of an afternoon thing up there.

"Just" rain can be an anytime thing. And usually is.

Good luck everyone! Have fun!
GET SOME.

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float , hammer , and jog

LOLZ. well played.

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float , hammer , and jog

2008 we got stormed on during the swim and I never even knew it. Stayed with us all day and, with my significant girth, I quite enjoyed it the cool and wet. Spectators and wee little triathletes with less insulation froze their tuckuses off.

...but do they pull people from the course? Or are portions of the event cancelled? Weather is do sporadic up here, I hope they keep their heads and let us keep racing. It could be thunderstorms for 10mins and then blazing sun...

We had a bit o' rain in '06, right at the start of the swim. I remember one of the youtube vids of the start, had somebody in the background saying aloud "I wonder if they even know it's raining?"
Answer - no. Wet is wet.
I was a wee triathlete w/ less insulation, and was definitely more than a bit nipply for the first half of the first loop of the bike.

amclean - they've had some pretty epic stormage there over the years during the race, and I don't think they've ever done anything different.
Now, if it's T-storming around the time of the swim start.... I dunno.

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float , hammer , and jog

The only way thunderstorms would affect the race would be if they were taking place during the swim. If they were coming pre-swim they they would delay the start of the swim or would ultimately cancel the swim portion if the delay was too long. During the swim, they would pull people out. After the swim, you're on your own. In 2003 there where thunderstorms with hail during the bike. The water up near the bike finish was a torrent several inches deep but the show when on.

Have fun and enjoy the day no matter,

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

You're competing in an Ironman. Act like it. A little bit of rain, lightening, zombie apocalypse, etc. It's all good on race day.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Any skinny guys thinking about wearing a rain jacket or am I being a pussy? I DNFd at zofingen in the rain but it was a little colder

Settle down tough guy. I've done this race twice before and plenty others with worse weather(amzof 2011 anyone?). I'm just hoping nothing gets in the way of the full race. I'm more than happy to plow on in the Adk weather.

Not trying to be a tough guy. I'm trying to get people to freak out about a zombie apocalypse. The ADK area is due for one any day now. There's a distinct possibility, according to the ZA forecasters, that one is going to hit the Lake Placid/ Keene/ Jay/ Wilmington area sometime between 10 am and 4 pm tomorrow. They suspect that the influx of so many live humans on the region is causing the migration of the living-challenged. You must all be ready, for whatever lies ahead...

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I remember 2003 well as my wife raced that day, said the wind, rain and hail were brutal coming back through the gorge by Whiteface. I also remember a heavy thunderstorm in the last hour of the race as we were waiting for a friend to finish.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

Have you ever seen River Road after dark on IM day?
It's a zombie apocalypse EVERY year.
Mindless, soulless, undead minions shambling along, in search of sustinence.
Except instead of brains, they seem to crave chicken broth.
Odd, that.

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float , hammer , and jog

I was at the mandatory athlete meeting last night and their plan for any inclement weather is to have you seek your own shelter. So basically, keep racing. They did say that there are fire stations in Keene, Jay, and Wilmington that you can seek shelter in if you want to, but everyone reading this who's a Slowtwitcher will obviously HTFU and keep racing. After all, unless your seat's too high, you won't be the highest target out there.

All of the people on the Beginner Triathlete forum with their seats too high will be the ones getting struck by lightning.

I just lowered my seat, thanks.

I did 2003 as well, I remember on the run looking down and thinking it rather odd to have water running over the tops of my ankles into my shoes.

Ron W

I am a relatively skinny chick who DNFed at AZ due to the weather compounded by a flat tubular and I am having the same debate. I was SO cold out on that bike.

Seen River Road on IM day? I typically lead the charge as head zombie in search of brains and chicken broth. In late stages of an IM, I'm in short supply of both.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Stick a plastic grocery store bag under your tri top in T1. If it gets too hot take it out and store for later or drop it off at an aid station.

Just in case of cold rain, I put a piece of bubble wrap in my T1 bag that I can put under my jersey.

I didn't even think to use that trick, but it has worked well for me in the past. Thanks for the reminder!

"What happens if there is lightning? I know at Syracuse 70.3 this year as soon as there was thunder, the race was over. Do they do that for full IMs too?"

No. At Syracuse they stopped people from beginning the second loop of the run when the thunderstorm blew threw. But they allowed people that were already on the course on their second loop to complete the race

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"No more hurting people - Peace"

Anybody not racing but at LP want to give us an update on the weather and conditions? I'm hoping everybody has a good day. It is starting to sprinkle over here in VT.

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Good luck to all the STers racing today, have fun out there!

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

There's no LP thread today? Sheesh. Talk about the wussification of Ironman...

PS - KonaExpress swam 1:04, Dev about the same. KAlber 1:09.
Keith's buddy Chris Wilhelm swam 55, and was 6th OA AG'er thru 30m of the bike. F'n fish.

Dev did his usual ProZone T1, in a scorching 4:11. Free speed!!!

Looks to be a long catered training day for Andy Potts - doesn't appear anyone can catch him, already.

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float , hammer , and jog

Well, Josh Beck is gaining on him and he did have a good swim, only 31 minutes down from Potts out of the water.

I didn't realize Josh was there... that *could* make it interesting later on.
PS - "only" 31 minutes down on the swim.

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float , hammer , and jog

cold like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B7MFtRXHfg

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

How do those swim times compare for them historically? I'm wondering what effect the new format/ rolling start had on swim times, if any. Potts was about 90 seconds slower this year as compared to last, which may have been fitness or may have been the swim traffic on lap 2.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Big shout out to my local pro Jennie Hansen. Last year, she finished 2nd at IMLP. She was not in the top 10 out of T1 but has biked her way up to 5th (maybe 4th since Carrie Lester is in the penalty tent). My girl struggles to keep up on the swim but excels on the run (she's seriously fast). Right now, she's only 12 min back of Dede and closing. Go Jennie!

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Kinda like Cait Snow 2.0?
OK, I'm on the team - GO JENNIE!!!

It appears the 56m updates aren't updating. Gah.
(ie - Andy Potts has no 56m split, nor does Dede, nor anyone else...)
That sucks.
At least the 30m (and hopefully again at 86m) mat seems to be working...

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float , hammer , and jog

Interesting observation. Jennie is also on the QT2 team. Maybe they have a preference for strong runners. She's still about 12 min back at the 56 mile point.

It looks like Potts has a 10 min lead on Daniel Fontana. The conditions are perfect for a fast day (if only someone had predicted that way earlier in the thread). Anyone know how Daniel runs?

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

The QT2 crew are ALL strong runners (Hi, Rich Burke! - whom I *just* realized is also racing LP today).

Speaking of strong runners, Casey Williams (whom I refer to as 'Josh Beck Lite') just moved into the top 10 OA in the AG ranks;he is a stud biker.
And speaking of Josh, no further splits for him after 30m on the bike.
Hope that's just a glitch, and he's OK (and going too fast to be picked up by the mats!! ;-)

Edited to add: Potts onto the run. He ran ~2:53 last year, on a hotter day.

AND - your G/F is now into 4th in the WPRO rankings thru 86m, about 10.5 mins back.

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float , hammer , and jog

I would never want to start an IM bike with a 31 minute lead over Josh, but I think Potts will find a way to hold on...... :) Josh went 2:17:29 for 1st lap to Pott's 2:21:01.

Interestingly, the climber extraordinaire who was on no one's radar but won SavageMan 70.0 last year in a nail-biter over Josh and AJ Baucco, Kelly Williamson (the male Kelly Williamson), has moved into 2nd fastest amateur at 86 from outside the top 10 at 30.

They really are looking lucky with the weather today.

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Kelly W (the doode) is KILLING it today.

Josh is a machine. The 30m segment on his 2nd lap, was < :20 slower than the first lap. And both were 27+ mph.
Amazing.

30 mi 30 mi 1:06:21 2:31:24 27.13 mi/h
56 mi 26 mi 1:11:08 3:42:32 21.93 mi/h
86 mi 30 mi 1:06:39 4:49:11 27.01 mi/h

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float , hammer , and jog