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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
I don't think he needs her permission to share his opinion. He is free to say what he wants and in this case, I think it could have a positive effect. Clearly several people in that tri community now know that she was drafting, especially since she chose to escalate the confrontation after the finish. While she was defiant at that race, I bet in future races she will be more self concious about drafting and other people will have their eye on her.

+1

Cheaters that are called out on it will be more reluctant to cheat in future races. That is human nature. I bet Mike Rossi will never try to cheat in a marathon now.
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
Bruizer wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Since you're asking, I don't think it's your job to confront her unless you are working in an official capacity for the race. Turn her in to race officials and leave it at that. She's not committing a crime so it's really none of your business beyond informing race officials. You shouldn't be telling other people what to do unless it's an emergency or dangerous situation.

It's got nothing to do with her being wrong; it's the question of the extent of your involvement in the matter.


I disagree. We need to police each other; otherwise, the cheaters will do what they want whenever they think they can get away with it. Hopefully, the cheater the OP was referring to will think twice about blatantly drafting in her next event.



I believe the right way to do it is to inform the race director. You have no business giving other people directives if you are not operating in an official capacity. And when you do confront, it will likely have the opposite effect that you desire. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. At most, you could make a quick and short comment such as, you are cheating and I will be informing the officials. Yelling at someone and getting in their face rarely if ever gets positive results. Any adult should know this.

Sorry Jason, as an RD, I disagree. In fact, this is something we cover in the technical meeting for the marathon we produce. We expect fair play from our competitors, and reality is that our race officials are not able to be everywhere at all times. The way we phrase it to our athletes is that in order to protect the competition as a whole if you see something outside the rules say something (if you can get close enough to the person involved) and bring it to our attention afterwards. Why this came about...a few years ago well after the race (weeks) one of our top athletes told me about a small group of runners who had cut the course in an area that runners are supposed to stay on the right side of the street. I asked him why he didn't report it, and he said that it hadn't affected his race because he was in the process of going by those runners. I asked him how he would have felt if he was the guy who finished 7th (out of the money) and somebody had witnessed an infraction by one of the guys who got paid. When you turn it around that way it feels different.

An aggressive confrontation isn't called for, but saying something on the way by and then reporting the issue, to me that's the way this sort of thing will get cut down. The same way you want to give somebody a "way to go!" when they're having a good day and go blowing by you on the run, when you see somebody blatant cheating they should get called out for that.
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
thechromedome wrote:
So if you came by someone blatantly drafting in a race you wouldn't say anything? That's fine I guess but there's a few of us that are gonna feel otherwise. He said his piece and moved on. If anyone was confrontational it was the drafter who crossed the finish line, sought out Carl and went to yelling causing a scene that only further implicated herself. The point is that drafting is cheating and that's wrong. I see no reason not to call someone out for that.
Cheers,



No I would not give another person a directive in the middle of a race. I would turn them in to the race director if it bothered me. Do you think positive results are achieved by telling other adults what to do in a heated and confrontational way? (and i'm not talking about dangerous or threatening situations)

If I were really concerned, and I understand the concern, I might say, "you are cheating and I'm turning you in, just so you know". That's very different that telling another person what to do. You're telling them what YOU are doing. That's a massive difference.

Yelling to the drafter, "quit cheating!" = not how to behave like an adult.

Yelling to the drafter, "I'm telling!" = how to behave like an adult.

Do I have that right?
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Bruizer] [ In reply to ]
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Bruizer wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:


Shame dealt out in a confrontation manner is effective only in your imagination. No offense.
Well, it's effective in achieving the opposite of what you're intending.


Shame to correct behavioral problems is actually a good motivator, if done correctly. I agree using a confrontational manner is not the most effective approach, but in the heat of the race it would be difficult to be sensitive and polite about it if the person is being blatantly obvious about it.


Shame is best served very publicly.

Telling other competitors about what you saw her do so that she can hear you - pointing her out to them and any one else in ear shot so she can see you spreading the word - making her feel the social condemnation and othering may impact her future behaviour.

Then again, she may very well be a sociopath, and not care one effing iota what other people think or feel.

Then you can point that out to everyone, cause nobody likes a sociopath. (Although many are unwittingly in love with one.) (And apologies to non-asshole sociopaths, you all aren't all bad).

Advocating for research & treatment for Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (ME).
http://www.meaction.net/about/what-is-me/

"Suck it up, Buttercup"
(me, to myself, every day)
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Guy calls out a cheater...cheater gets pissed about it and confronts the guy who calls her out...

Guy is clearly the a-hole and should have kept his mouth shut...not the other way around...ok, got it...

I'm glad I don't live in your world.
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [badgertri] [ In reply to ]
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Just as an anecdote to counteract all the BS about how cheaters shouldn't be called out because it doesn't affect them anyways....

I was in my first year of triathlon...coming down a hill with a left hand turn at the bottom (I have terrible bike handling at this point)...I descend faster than the guy in front of me and come up on him nearing the bottom of the hill...I am unable to go around due to the tight turn and didn't want to slam on my brakes...guy flys past me and yells at me to quit drafting and takes the tight turn like a pro...

Ever since that experience I have been so scared to even come close to drafting for fear of being called out. Maybe I am an exception to the rule...but I doubt it.
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]
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Jason80134 wrote:
OP asked for advice and opinions. You may have missed that at the top. Do you think the cheater lady asked for his opinion?

Cheater - yes.
Lady - not so much.

clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [oldcarl] [ In reply to ]
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Hunt down her parents and punch them both in the face. When they ask what that was for, say "bad parenting", and walk away.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [badgertri] [ In reply to ]
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badgertri wrote:
Guy calls out a cheater...cheater gets pissed about it and confronts the guy who calls her out...

Guy is clearly the a-hole and should have kept his mouth shut...not the other way around...ok, got it...

I'm glad I don't live in your world.

Agreed. I would always call out a cheater.

1st IM on a 500M run to T1 a guy hands his wet suit to a family member shortly after the swim out. Abandoned equipment (way less of a "racing" issue than drafting). I called him on it and his response was "its not like I'm gonna win" (unfortunately we were both slow swimmers!). It's still a rules violation and he knew it. Cheaters at least need to know that we know they are cheating. How hard is it to carry a wetsuit over your shoulder for 2-3 minutes and stuff it in a bag.

Saw him later on the course. Crushed him on the run. :)

I've told others they were drafting and/or blocking, this guy stuck out because he essentially admitted he did care about the rules or felt they were for everyone else.
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Scotttriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Scotttriguy wrote:
Shame is best served very publicly.

Telling other competitors about what you saw her do so that she can hear you - pointing her out to them and any one else in ear shot so she can see you spreading the word - making her feel the social condemnation and othering may impact her future behaviour.

Then again, she may very well be a sociopath, and not care one effing iota what other people think or feel.

Then you can point that out to everyone, cause nobody likes a sociopath. (Although many are unwittingly in love with one.) (And apologies to non-asshole sociopaths, you all aren't all bad).

I think a good loud booing at the award ceremony would have been a good public shaming for her.
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