The race is so small it is impossible to not run into each other. They were both drafting from what I saw, so no wonder there was a confrontation. They were both in the wrong and both of them should've just let it go. Like Jason80134 pointed out, don't expect someone to be nice to you when you bark orders at them mid-race. Especially if you are also cheating. I understand mentioning something if it is directly affecting your race. Just don't be surprised if they get mad at you when you call them a "cheater" and whine about it on ST.
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Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [dalava]
[ In reply to ]
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Ty]
[ In reply to ]
Ty wrote:
I've actually witnessed a married couple racing same race and wifey saw husband in huge pack and yelled at them all. Husband said chill everyone is doing it and unable to avoid blah blah blah.
Side note, of course none of the other athletes knew who she was and he said kind of sheepishly, "that's my wife."
When someone sees a blatant wrong, which affects fairness of race it is normal to call it out.
Last year, I split a dad and son on the podium. I thought "cool, nice that they have that to share." Then, I looked at the results and they exited T1 within 10 seconds of each other and entered T2 within 10 seconds of each other, then the son took off on the run (and passed me.) Just last week, I saw exactly the same result at another tri: same dad and son, same bike start and finish times. Now I'm thinking "great, dad can help son cheat." In their defense, I never witnessed any drafting, so I suppose they could be riding legal the whole time.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134]
[ In reply to ]
Jason80134 wrote:
dalava wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Bruizer wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Since you're asking, I don't think it's your job to confront her unless you are working in an official capacity for the race. Turn her in to race officials and leave it at that. She's not committing a crime so it's really none of your business beyond informing race officials. You shouldn't be telling other people what to do unless it's an emergency or dangerous situation. It's got nothing to do with her being wrong; it's the question of the extent of your involvement in the matter.
I disagree. We need to police each other; otherwise, the cheaters will do what they want whenever they think they can get away with it. Hopefully, the cheater the OP was referring to will think twice about blatantly drafting in her next event.
I believe the right way to do it is to inform the race director. You have no business giving other people directives if you are not operating in an official capacity. And when you do confront, it will likely have the opposite effect that you desire. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. At most, you could make a quick and short comment such as, you are cheating and I will be informing the officials. Yelling at someone and getting in their face rarely if ever gets positive results. Any adult should know this.
The OP yelled at her and told her to knock it off, and from what I can infer, moved on to his own race. So it's not like he stayed with her and continue to yell or harass her. I believe the situation got out of hands because the woman actually seeked him out later to confront him about it which is not doubly wrong of her.
On the role of fellow competitors wrt rules, I believe it's even more important for small races. There aren't enough officials for these smaller races to enforce the rules and athletes should take upon themselves to remind others to follow the rules. Fairness is essential to competitions.
That's where I disagree. He was telling her what to do. That's not his role. You shouldn't be telling other adults what to do if you're not operating in an official capacity. He should have just turned her in and maybe let her know that he was turning her in. Small race or not, just let the race director know exactly what was happening. Observe and inform, sure, but your job is most certainly not to give directives.
I'm only talking about the OP's actions. And guess what, they only served to piss the woman off. If that's the goal, fine, but it's likely not going to have the intended effect of motivating her to stop cheating. I think most adults would know this basic aspect of human psychology.
Would it have been ok to yell "Way to cheat ya drafting cheating bitch!!" Because you know, it isn't like he was giving her any directives. He was just being observant with is outside voice.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134]
[ In reply to ]
Ok. But we're talking about someone cheating. On purpose. I don't see that as adult behavior so perhaps we have a case here where treating someone like an adult is out the window. I agree with you in general, but this is triathlon not real life. :)
And with aero helmets on, whirring of wheels and wind in the ears there does have to be some kind of raising of voices.
He confronted her at the time of the incident and caught her red handed. That's the time to bring it up. Any person with remorse would stop then. And if she did that probably would have been the end of it and the only thread of value today would have been about getting DQd for peeing during IMLP.
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
And with aero helmets on, whirring of wheels and wind in the ears there does have to be some kind of raising of voices.
He confronted her at the time of the incident and caught her red handed. That's the time to bring it up. Any person with remorse would stop then. And if she did that probably would have been the end of it and the only thread of value today would have been about getting DQd for peeing during IMLP.
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Rage KG]
[ In reply to ]
Wait, so who else did you see drafting? The OP or the guy in front of her or someone else?
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134]
[ In reply to ]
Jason80134 wrote:
dalava wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Bruizer wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Since you're asking, I don't think it's your job to confront her unless you are working in an official capacity for the race. Turn her in to race officials and leave it at that. She's not committing a crime so it's really none of your business beyond informing race officials. You shouldn't be telling other people what to do unless it's an emergency or dangerous situation. It's got nothing to do with her being wrong; it's the question of the extent of your involvement in the matter.
I disagree. We need to police each other; otherwise, the cheaters will do what they want whenever they think they can get away with it. Hopefully, the cheater the OP was referring to will think twice about blatantly drafting in her next event.
I believe the right way to do it is to inform the race director. You have no business giving other people directives if you are not operating in an official capacity. And when you do confront, it will likely have the opposite effect that you desire. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. At most, you could make a quick and short comment such as, you are cheating and I will be informing the officials. Yelling at someone and getting in their face rarely if ever gets positive results. Any adult should know this.
The OP yelled at her and told her to knock it off, and from what I can infer, moved on to his own race. So it's not like he stayed with her and continue to yell or harass her. I believe the situation got out of hands because the woman actually seeked him out later to confront him about it which is not doubly wrong of her.
On the role of fellow competitors wrt rules, I believe it's even more important for small races. There aren't enough officials for these smaller races to enforce the rules and athletes should take upon themselves to remind others to follow the rules. Fairness is essential to competitions.
That's where I disagree. He was telling her what to do. That's not his role. You shouldn't be telling other adults what to do if you're not operating in an official capacity. He should have just turned her in and maybe let her know that he was turning her in. Small race or not, just let the race director know exactly what was happening. Observe and inform, sure, but your job is most certainly not to give directives.
I'm only talking about the OP's actions. And guess what, they only served to piss the woman off. If that's the goal, fine, but it's likely not going to have the intended effect of motivating her to stop cheating. I think most adults would know this basic aspect of human psychology.
Reporting the incident to the RD wouldn't have changed anything if they didn't see it themselves. The cheater was upset because she was called on it. Shame can be an effective motivator.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [thechromedome]
[ In reply to ]
See my first post in the thread. Both were drafting however I don't know how long exactly b/c I passed them and moved along with my race.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Rage KG]
[ In reply to ]
But you said you dont know who was who but it sounds like you are calling out the OP for drafting. Are you sure you know who appeared to be drafting?
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Bruizer]
[ In reply to ]
Reporting the incident to the RD wouldn't have changed anything if they didn't see it themselves. The cheater was upset because she was called on it. Shame can be an effective motivator.[/quote]
This is true. Some races are so small they cannot afford to have officials and the race staff is handling multiple duties on race date. It would always be a he said she said thing until she sought him out which created witnesses.
This is true. Some races are so small they cannot afford to have officials and the race staff is handling multiple duties on race date. It would always be a he said she said thing until she sought him out which created witnesses.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [thechromedome]
[ In reply to ]
I know your question wasn't directed at me, but I passed 4 of them together sometime before the OP did fairly early in the bike segment. The only reason I really remember was because I was counting people I was passing to figure out my place and this was 4 all at once- in hindsight I guess I was like 7th/8th OA at that point, and that's how I figured out it's the same people. I followed them for quite a while (maybe a mile or two- long sight distances at times) and 3 of them stayed stuck to each other the whole time with one out front clearly legal. I don't recall where the woman was, but not in front. I went by them and didn't pay much attention. Can't say for sure they were illegal, but it was close.
If you want to call someone out, that's your choice. She earned it IMO. Cheating is cheating and it sucks. May as well as cut some corners somewhere too, right, I mean it's just a small race. Hell, let's dope it up a bit too, and let the air out of your competitions tires.
The part I think sucks the worst is the confrontation afterwards. If you cheated and got caught, have the good grace to be humble and move on. No need to turn it into something worse. Like being mad at the guy that caught you and displaying poor sportsmanship for everyone to get involved with.
If you want to call someone out, that's your choice. She earned it IMO. Cheating is cheating and it sucks. May as well as cut some corners somewhere too, right, I mean it's just a small race. Hell, let's dope it up a bit too, and let the air out of your competitions tires.
The part I think sucks the worst is the confrontation afterwards. If you cheated and got caught, have the good grace to be humble and move on. No need to turn it into something worse. Like being mad at the guy that caught you and displaying poor sportsmanship for everyone to get involved with.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [thechromedome]
[ In reply to ]
All I can say is what I saw. The OP never mentioned her staying on his wheel and never mentioned anyone else drafting off of him, so I assumed that was him on the inside of her as I passed the three. If I'm wrong in my assumption, then sorry. I don't personally know the OP, but I know that was the group he was talking about 100%.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134]
[ In reply to ]
Jason80134 wrote:
That's where I disagree. He was telling her what to do. That's not his role. You shouldn't be telling other adults what to do if you're not operating in an official capacity. He should have just turned her in and maybe let her know that he was turning her in. Small race or not, just let the race director know exactly what was happening. Observe and inform, sure, but your job is most certainly not to give directives. I'm only talking about the OP's actions. And guess what, they only served to piss the woman off. If that's the goal, fine, but it's likely not going to have the intended effect of motivating her to stop cheating. I think most adults would know this basic aspect of human psychology.
Aren't you telling an adult what to do right now??
-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Bruizer]
[ In reply to ]
Bruizer wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
dalava wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Bruizer wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Since you're asking, I don't think it's your job to confront her unless you are working in an official capacity for the race. Turn her in to race officials and leave it at that. She's not committing a crime so it's really none of your business beyond informing race officials. You shouldn't be telling other people what to do unless it's an emergency or dangerous situation. It's got nothing to do with her being wrong; it's the question of the extent of your involvement in the matter.
I disagree. We need to police each other; otherwise, the cheaters will do what they want whenever they think they can get away with it. Hopefully, the cheater the OP was referring to will think twice about blatantly drafting in her next event.
I believe the right way to do it is to inform the race director. You have no business giving other people directives if you are not operating in an official capacity. And when you do confront, it will likely have the opposite effect that you desire. You are kidding yourself if you think otherwise. At most, you could make a quick and short comment such as, you are cheating and I will be informing the officials. Yelling at someone and getting in their face rarely if ever gets positive results. Any adult should know this.
The OP yelled at her and told her to knock it off, and from what I can infer, moved on to his own race. So it's not like he stayed with her and continue to yell or harass her. I believe the situation got out of hands because the woman actually seeked him out later to confront him about it which is not doubly wrong of her.
On the role of fellow competitors wrt rules, I believe it's even more important for small races. There aren't enough officials for these smaller races to enforce the rules and athletes should take upon themselves to remind others to follow the rules. Fairness is essential to competitions.
That's where I disagree. He was telling her what to do. That's not his role. You shouldn't be telling other adults what to do if you're not operating in an official capacity. He should have just turned her in and maybe let her know that he was turning her in. Small race or not, just let the race director know exactly what was happening. Observe and inform, sure, but your job is most certainly not to give directives.
I'm only talking about the OP's actions. And guess what, they only served to piss the woman off. If that's the goal, fine, but it's likely not going to have the intended effect of motivating her to stop cheating. I think most adults would know this basic aspect of human psychology.
Reporting the incident to the RD wouldn't have changed anything if they didn't see it themselves. The cheater was upset because she was called on it. Shame can be an effective motivator.
Shame dealt out in a confrontation manner is effective only in your imagination. No offense.
Well, it's effective in achieving the opposite of what you're intending.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [1shogun]
[ In reply to ]
+1
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [RowToTri]
[ In reply to ]
RowToTri wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
That's where I disagree. He was telling her what to do. That's not his role. You shouldn't be telling other adults what to do if you're not operating in an official capacity. He should have just turned her in and maybe let her know that he was turning her in. Small race or not, just let the race director know exactly what was happening. Observe and inform, sure, but your job is most certainly not to give directives. I'm only talking about the OP's actions. And guess what, they only served to piss the woman off. If that's the goal, fine, but it's likely not going to have the intended effect of motivating her to stop cheating. I think most adults would know this basic aspect of human psychology.
Aren't you telling an adult what to do right now??
OP asked for advice and opinions. You may have missed that at the top. Do you think the cheater lady asked for his opinion?
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134]
[ In reply to ]
Jason80134 wrote:
Shame dealt out in a confrontation manner is effective only in your imagination. No offense.
Well, it's effective in achieving the opposite of what you're intending.
Shame to correct behavioral problems is actually a good motivator, if done correctly. I agree using a confrontational manner is not the most effective approach, but in the heat of the race it would be difficult to be sensitive and polite about it if the person is being blatantly obvious about it.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [thechromedome]
[ In reply to ]
"I'm gonna try to refrain from clues as to the wheres and whos though. :)"
-----------------------
Why?
David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
-----------------------
Why?
David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [thechromedome]
[ In reply to ]
I should amend my earlier post where I said she didnt show up for awards since evidently she did take home hardware after all in her age group. That being said and at the risk of rendering this whole thread into further ridiculousness.....it turned out what we were all racing for and what was so precious that it deserved cheating on one person's part to achieve was, in fact, a selfie stick. Small tri awards are awesome! D:)
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [david]
[ In reply to ]
just didn't want to add flames to the twitch hunt. S'all.
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Cheers,
thechromedome
http://www.favoritefinishlines.blogspot.com
http://www.cupcakecartel.org
My 20% off code for 2018 FS Series races: tricred18
"there are no drafters in heaven" - C Bonner
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [oldcarl]
[ In reply to ]
oldcarl wrote:
After the race, she tracked me down and confronted me, telling me to never yell at her again. I responded by saying that you were cheating. She admitted to drafting and said that she did not care, it just a local race.Maybe the appropriate response would admit to yelling at her and tell her you don't give a fuck...it's just a local race.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [thechromedome]
[ In reply to ]
I think the Selfie stick is a very fitting award considering.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Bruizer]
[ In reply to ]
Bruizer wrote:
Jason80134 wrote:
Shame dealt out in a confrontation manner is effective only in your imagination. No offense.
Well, it's effective in achieving the opposite of what you're intending.
Shame to correct behavioral problems is actually a good motivator, if done correctly. I agree using a confrontational manner is not the most effective approach, but in the heat of the race it would be difficult to be sensitive and polite about it if the person is being blatantly obvious about it.
Exactly, so don't do it. That's my point. It won't work and you'll only end up pissing off the person, which is exactly what happened.
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [Jason80134]
[ In reply to ]
I don't think he needs her permission to share his opinion. He is free to say what he wants and in this case, I think it could have a positive effect. Clearly several people in that tri community now know that she was drafting, especially since she chose to escalate the confrontation after the finish. While she was defiant at that race, I bet in future races she will be more self concious about drafting and other people will have their eye on her.
-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Re: admitted to drafting, did not care [thechromedome]
[ In reply to ]
thechromedome wrote:
I should amend my earlier post where I said she didnt show up for awards since evidently she did take home hardware after all in her age group. That being said and at the risk of rendering this whole thread into further ridiculousness.....it turned out what we were all racing for and what was so precious that it deserved cheating on one person's part to achieve was, in fact, a selfie stick. Small tri awards are awesome! D:) Cheers,
That's awesome! Given that it takes a certain kind of a-hole to use a selfie stick, we know this particular stick will get plenty of use by this particular individual.
RowToTri wrote:
I don't think he needs her permission to share his opinion. He is free to say what he wants and in this case, I think it could have a positive effect. Clearly several people in that tri community now know that she was drafting, especially since she chose to escalate the confrontation after the finish. While she was defiant at that race, I bet in future races she will be more self concious about drafting and other people will have their eye on her.Legally you can say pretty much whatever you want. Does that make it the right or most effective thing to do?
I'll take your bet and say that that woman will be more determined not to give in to that guy. Now she feels like it's an external thing. He can't tell me what to do. As opposed to it coming from a race director who has been informed of her cheating. It's not nearly as personal and therefore it might cause her to be more reflective. Do you not know human nature?