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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]
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seeyouincourt wrote:
+1 on USAT stepping up to handle registration without having additional fees. That would be exactly the kind of value that people could see right away.

+2
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [xeon] [ In reply to ]
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xeon wrote:
Sanrafaeltri wrote:

i would love to see USAT and races end their relationship with them and have USAT add their own registration process that is included in their membership or one day fee.


Love this idea! If USAT came up with a race registration vehicle to offer their RDs and subsequent athletes, that could be a real game changer!


the quickest way for USAT to lose support of every strategic partner they have is to get into the various businesses of the rest of the industry. USAT started down this path about 7 years ago and it got an earful (i was in the room) from every major stakeholder.

everybody - registration companies, race directors, media, and others - honors USAT's place as the once national governing body deserving of shelter from competition. but that's only as good as USAT's performance of its job, and its reciprocal decision not to compete with the industry that does not compete with it. one USAT decides its going to get into every bit of business it wants, then its open season on the revenue stream USAT enjoys.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Last edited by: Slowman: Jul 19, 17 11:36
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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USAT's letter is incredibly defensive... that doesn't convince athletes that they are adding value. What would resonate with athletes is USAT stepping up and saying,

"Hey, we hear you and we hear Life Time and we're going to do better. Here are the changes we are going to make that we think could appease the discontent, and continue to appease Dave over on ST (thanks Dave for your endless support! even if every one of your post says the same thing; thanks!). We're going to make sure the price you see at the beginning of registration is the price you pay. We're going to do work closer with WTC to see if they have suggestions for change. And yes, we'll do away with age groups and begin merit-based categories like they have with cycling, and listen to a panel of cyclists to see if we can avoid the pitfalls with that category based system. We're listening, evolving and we want to provide you with value you can identify when asked, 'what value does USAT add?' (other than end-of-the-year rankings - we can do better than that if that's the only value you think we're adding. sorry Dave - but thanks, too!). Yours, USAT."

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [smoothoperator] [ In reply to ]
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"The fees for one-day and annual memberships are recirculated back into the sport"

And to pay a $362K salary to the head of USAT

WaPo article here
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Kudos
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
RallySavage wrote:
That people are going to fork over $300+ on the spot for a race 12 months away. It’s ridiculous.


Well, people do it for Kona (but triple the money) and 70.3 WC (but another 50% more money)...

So yea, it's a solid model.

Perhaps a solid model. But the reality of what happened at Awards says that people aren't interested in a LTF Championship. Like I said, I didn't see a single person go over to the sign up table. The materials they gave us though said we had until Oct 27 to decide. So maybe folks will do it after they think about it once they get home. But I'm officially done with the NYC Tri for the other reasons I stated.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [RallySavage] [ In reply to ]
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I never saw that thread. Any chance you could PM me a quick synopsis? NYC Tri was on my bucket list.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Don't get me wrong. It's a fantastic event and I would encourage you to signup for it though the lottery, or podium at one of the qualifying events since it's on your bucket list. But for me, having done it 3 times already and not getting a USAT Score for it, I am not interested for next year.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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It seems to me that might be short-term pain for long-term gain for USAT. Right now it looks as if the sport is dying. Probably because people are sick of being bled dry to go racing. If USAT can come in and provide services to race directors at lower prices, they can drive up participation, which would be to the benefit of their overall mission--more high caliber olympic athletes. Sure they'll piss off active.com in the interim, but I personally don't believe the sport needs a rent-seeking parasite like active.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [JustinPB] [ In reply to ]
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JustinPB wrote:
If USAT can come in and provide services to race directors at lower prices, they can drive up participation, which would be to the benefit of their overall mission.

are you also okay with somebody else coming in and providing sanctioning/membership/insurance services to RDs at lower prices?

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. I don't have any problem with that. I have no particular attachment to USAT--as you may notice from my previous post they've done nothing for me.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [JustinPB] [ In reply to ]
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JustinPB wrote:
It seems to me that might be short-term pain for long-term gain for USAT. Right now it looks as if the sport is dying. Probably because people are sick of being bled dry to go racing. If USAT can come in and provide services to race directors at lower prices, they can drive up participation, which would be to the benefit of their overall mission--more high caliber olympic athletes. Sure they'll piss off active.com in the interim, but I personally don't believe the sport needs a rent-seeking parasite like active.

Ignoring the fact that triathlon is exploding in other parts of the world, don't you think that statement is hyperbole even for North America? Certainly there has been a retraction from its high point, but 'dying'?!! How many years do you think the patient has left before USAT pulls down the flag, triathlon is no longer an olympic sport, and there isn't a single triathlon left in the United States?
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff wrote:
JustinPB wrote:
It seems to me that might be short-term pain for long-term gain for USAT. Right now it looks as if the sport is dying. Probably because people are sick of being bled dry to go racing. If USAT can come in and provide services to race directors at lower prices, they can drive up participation, which would be to the benefit of their overall mission--more high caliber olympic athletes. Sure they'll piss off active.com in the interim, but I personally don't believe the sport needs a rent-seeking parasite like active.


Ignoring the fact that triathlon is exploding in other parts of the world, don't you think that statement is hyperbole even for North America? Certainly there has been a retraction from its high point, but 'dying'?!! How many years do you think the patient has left before USAT pulls down the flag, triathlon is no longer an olympic sport, and there isn't a single triathlon left in the United States?

we had a much bigger retraction than this, on a percentage basis, in the 1990s.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, it's probably hyperbole. But if I were in charge of USAT I'd certainly be worried about general trends. Shrinking participation numbers, consolidation of races (my perception is that participation has been changing from racing 6-10 times a year at smaller locally run races, to 1-3 branded destination races), big promoters looking elsewhere for sanctioning. All that would definitely concern me if I were USAT.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
USAT's letter is incredibly defensive... that doesn't convince athletes that they are adding value. What would resonate with athletes is USAT stepping up and saying,

"Hey, we hear you and we hear Life Time and we're going to do better. Here are the changes we are going to make that we think could appease the discontent, and continue to appease Dave over on ST (thanks Dave for your endless support! even if every one of your post says the same thing; thanks!). We're going to make sure the price you see at the beginning of registration is the price you pay. We're going to do work closer with WTC to see if they have suggestions for change. And yes, we'll do away with age groups and begin merit-based categories like they have with cycling, and listen to a panel of cyclists to see if we can avoid the pitfalls with that category based system. We're listening, evolving and we want to provide you with value you can identify when asked, 'what value does USAT add?' (other than end-of-the-year rankings - we can do better than that if that's the only value you think we're adding. sorry Dave - but thanks, too!). Yours, USAT."

Am I famous? :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [JustinPB] [ In reply to ]
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JustinPB wrote:
Yeah, it's probably hyperbole. But if I were in charge of USAT I'd certainly be worried about general trends. Shrinking participation numbers, consolidation of races (my perception is that participation has been changing from racing 6-10 times a year at smaller locally run races, to 1-3 branded destination races), big promoters looking elsewhere for sanctioning. All that would definitely concern me if I were USAT.

Yes, USAT should be worried. The sport can change in another direction, indeed it arguably has changed as you noted. Eventually it could even outgrow USAT. But even then I would expect that USAT would end up 'leading from behind' if for no other reason then to continue justifying their own non-profit paychecks.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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"the quickest way for USAT to lose support of every strategic partner they have is to get into the various businesses of the rest of the industry. USAT started down this path about 7 years ago and it got an earful (i was in the room) from every major stakeholder.

everybody - registration companies, race directors, media, and others - honors USAT's place as the once national governing body deserving of shelter from competition. but that's only as good as USAT's performance of its job, and its reciprocal decision not to compete with the industry that does not compete with it. one USAT decides its going to get into every bit of business it wants, then its open season on the revenue stream USAT enjoys."




This is the kind of thing that so many here are not thinking about or don't even have awareness to consider. There's a lot of bitching and moaning about fees this and extra charges that, didn't do anything here, did way too much penalizing there.

Everyone seems to have a bead on how USAT is screwing the pooch. Everyone seems to know how this SHOULD be done. And the part I love best is the implication that USAT doesn't give a rats ass about the athletes.

And yet, very few here, outside of Slowman, have much insight or situational awareness to make such assessments. That and a lot of you seem to think races and everything attached just magically happen without cost. Either that or you seem to think the various race orgs, registration entities, USAT, etc. are just plucking their various costs and fees out of thin air, with an eye to gouging the athletes just to make a buck. I sure as hell don't have the insight to make that determination, and as far as I've seen...none of you doing the bitching do either. The costs are going to be allotted somewhere, whether in discrete fees that we see at registration, or hidden in the overall race cost.

Any asshat can take pot shots at "they". How about being constructive? How about getting involved instead of just bitching and acting like you have some magic understanding of how it could all be perfect.

I get it. I'm competing again and the costs of this sport are crazy to me. I don't think USAT is perfect. But I also don't know that I think Lifetime's approach is good overall for the sport. I just refuse to sit out here like a petulant child and not at least try to be part of the solution. There are a lot of ways to do that.

Having sat in a USAT town hall meeting at Du Nats last month, its abundantly clear that USAT understands the issues and balances they have to wrestle with. They have a lot of competing priorities and not any of them will get their desired "perfect" answer. But it was clear to me that they are trying to make the athlete's experience better and do the necessary things to encourage the growth and overall health of multisport in the U.S.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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TriBriGuy wrote:
"the quickest way for USAT to lose support of every strategic partner they have is to get into the various businesses of the rest of the industry. USAT started down this path about 7 years ago and it got an earful (i was in the room) from every major stakeholder.

everybody - registration companies, race directors, media, and others - honors USAT's place as the once national governing body deserving of shelter from competition. but that's only as good as USAT's performance of its job, and its reciprocal decision not to compete with the industry that does not compete with it. one USAT decides its going to get into every bit of business it wants, then its open season on the revenue stream USAT enjoys."




This is the kind of thing that so many here are not thinking about or don't even have awareness to consider. There's a lot of bitching and moaning about fees this and extra charges that, didn't do anything here, did way too much penalizing there.

Everyone seems to have a bead on how USAT is screwing the pooch. Everyone seems to know how this SHOULD be done. And the part I love best is the implication that USAT doesn't give a rats ass about the athletes.

And yet, very few here, outside of Slowman, have much insight or situational awareness to make such assessments. That and a lot of you seem to think races and everything attached just magically happen without cost. Either that or you seem to think the various race orgs, registration entities, USAT, etc. are just plucking their various costs and fees out of thin air, with an eye to gouging the athletes just to make a buck. I sure as hell don't have the insight to make that determination, and as far as I've seen...none of you doing the bitching do either. The costs are going to be allotted somewhere, whether in discrete fees that we see at registration, or hidden in the overall race cost.

Any asshat can take pot shots at "they". How about being constructive? How about getting involved instead of just bitching and acting like you have some magic understanding of how it could all be perfect.

I get it. I'm competing again and the costs of this sport are crazy to me. I don't think USAT is perfect. But I also don't know that I think Lifetime's approach is good overall for the sport. I just refuse to sit out here like a petulant child and not at least try to be part of the solution. There are a lot of ways to do that.

Having sat in a USAT town hall meeting at Du Nats last month, its abundantly clear that USAT understands the issues and balances they have to wrestle with. They have a lot of competing priorities and not any of them will get their desired "perfect" answer. But it was clear to me that they are trying to make the athlete's experience better and do the necessary things to encourage the growth and overall health of multisport in the U.S.

great post, hope to see you in Penticton in a month

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Why does it have to be getting into other various business models. It's just the one: registration back end so there are no add-on fees above membership or the one-day fee. Who is even going to care about USAT giving such an option other than Active.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]
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seeyouincourt wrote:
Why does it have to be getting into other various business models. It's just the one: registration back end so there are no add-on fees above membership or the one-day fee. Who is even going to care about USAT giving such an option other than Active.

Events.com, Eventbrite, ChronoTrack, IMAthlete, RaceIt, BikeReg and a dozen other companies, who'd turn right around and tack insurance as an option to their services if USAT got into their revenue streams.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Big difference between back-end registration services and all the other stuff. Active is going to offer insurance? Nope. Active is going to start sanctioning it doing races? Nope. Active already has membership, and from I can tell they mostly trick people into becoming members.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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Infamous
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [TriBriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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TriBriGuy wrote:

Having sat in a USAT town hall meeting at Du Nats last month, its abundantly clear that USAT understands the issues and balances they have to wrestle with. They have a lot of competing priorities and not any of them will get their desired "perfect" answer. But it was clear to me that they are trying to make the athlete's experience better and do the necessary things to encourage the growth and overall health of multisport in the U.S.

I agree. I was at the town hall and peppered Tim Yount with questions. He spent a lot of time answering everyone's questions. I didn't detect any stonewallingfrom him. I think they are trying to expand triathlon's (and duathlon's) reach. Are they doing the right "stuff"? Are they doing enough? I don't know.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not so sure it's that easy to get into the insurance game. You know, laws and stuff.
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Re: USAT Responds to Life Time Fitness Announcement about "divorce" from USAT Sanctioning [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
not surprisingly, that response isn't really saying anything. unfortunately, USAT just isn't a ''value add'' for some athletes and/or races.

Agreed. For some of us (h20fun, myself), USAT provided a lot. But, we're participating in Nationals and Worlds and "enjoy" (for lack of a better word) the rankings. Nothing wrong there.

But for a majority of participants, especially the weekend warriors, they may not even know what USAT is or what it does. Two recent examples.

Two weekends ago, I did a small USAT sanctioned sprint triathlon in semi-rural Maine. 68 individuals and six relay teams participated. The LAST finisher was a 25 year old guy who rode a knobby wheeled mountain bike. I chatted with his mother while waiting for him to finish. This was his first triathlon and he was out to have fun. Given the size of the race, he actually placed first in his AG. When he received his award, he had the biggest smile on his face and received the loudest applause. I doubt he knew what USAT was even though he paid them $15 when he entered.

I raced the Draft Legal Duathlon in Bend. Coming up to the finish area, I passed a young guy who was definitely in pain. I met him hiding in the shade after the race and chatted. He was 19 years old and a Harvard undergrad. He specialized in track cycling and was not a runner but decided to race for the experience. This was his first duathlon and he said he had a blast. Again, other than being the host, I doubt he knew what USAT was.
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