thanks. still, i'm pretty quick on the draw. i hate to get beat.


to me, i think one interesting element is how the same pipeline that uncovers and develops so many great american women is almost worthless when it comes to developing american men. i have my suspicion as to why that is so, still, that's a very lightly-discussed story.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

It seems like that pipeline undervalues the aptitude to become a strong cyclists (focus seems to be on the swim+run as it should be). On the men's side that is a bit more important than it has been on the women's side. You need to be able to ride with the front pack bus that the Brownlees are driving.

I think if anyone could have gone with them on the bike it would be Gomez, but he would have had equally knackered legs for the run.

Amazed a mid 37 took a spot on the podium, and there's a 40 min in the top 20. I'm not the Authority on US development pathways so don't have the answers on that, but I do hear ya....

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http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

well, i don't think this race was typical. 15th place in the men's race was mid-33s. when you put a challenging bike course in there, and people are racing the bike flat out, that's going to take a toll on the run.

bear in mind that bike course had 2 things that makes it impossible to sit in and rest: hills, and turns. when you have that many turns it's hard to be 2/3 of the way back than it is to be in front.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

to me, i think one interesting element is how the same pipeline that uncovers and develops so many great american women is almost worthless when it comes to developing american men.

ETA: Sorry if that derails the thread.

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I'd love to hear your thoughts. But i hope it also acknowledges itu men and itu women are 2 completely different sports in how they race.

That to me is a hugely underrated.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

i think it's about access. american women have much greater access to sport than women in most other countries (canada, NZ, and a couple of others are the equal to or superior to the US). women have the opportunity in the US to develop as high schoolers, continue to develop as collegians, and then there are plenty of them ready to move right into the pipeline after college.

but no women have access to the professional money that the men have at an early age. there is no brownlee-gomez analog for the women. not many pathways for a woman to become a high-earning pro triathlete at 18 or 19 years old. there are plenty of pathways for men to do that in all kinds of countries.

the US men are actually held back by following the same pipeline as the US women, because US men lose 4 development years. mola's pathway was better for him than smoragiewicz's pathway was for him.

therefore i think america's pathway for women is great compared to the alternative in most other countries; but that same pathway for men is worse than the alternative in most other countries.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Great and I am glad you said that as that was basically what I was alluding to with the sports being 2 complete different animals.

Where I would disagree is in the "earnings" potential for men at age 18-20 range. That I think is exactly why you see men going to college on someone else's dime.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

i think it would be interesting to see how many of the top male triathletes in the world - brownlees, mola, gomez, and on down - are full time college students from the age of 18 thru 22 or 23. i think a lot of US men are, and pretty much all US women are. i don't *think* mola and gomez taking scholarships to go to college. but i might be wrong. who in the top 15 or 20 men spent those years in college?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Both Brownlees have degrees - Alistair has two.

I do think they got the chance to learn a bit more 'flexibly' than other students would - I think Jonny took an extra year to do his degree? He has definitely mentioned that he sat an exam in like, Australia or somewhere.

right. some of these men and ladies go on to earn advanced degrees, become medical doctors, while they're racing even. i just think the american women and even the non-american women - flora duffy as an example - are much more likely to take advantage of scholarship-funded full-time college, usually in a single sport, and then emerge into a triathlon career.

what i think is much less typical is for a man to do that. which men racing now in the ITU world took 4 years off of triathlon to devote to a single sport while going to college full time? or didn't start triathlon until they left the world of D1 or D2 college athletics? or the same basic pathway in another country?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Appears to me Ali has been doing the majority of the work, maybe he is just here to domestique Jonny? //

Here is what I think the Killer B's strategy was going into this race. First of all it began last week when Ali pulled the plug on the run, thus doing a normal hard training day. So no fatigue what so ever to begin this race with. 2nd I think their plan is to have Ali drill the swim bike as hard as possible, make sure there is a break at T2. Johnny helps, but Ali sacrifices. Then it is game on for the run, no gifts and Johnny has to win the race from Allistar. His handicap is the amount of work done by his big bro, but of course it is most often not enough without some other factor in there.


I think since the training for Allistar now is LD focused(not that much different from what he did before minus some spadework) he was able to drill this baby and not fade at the end. Of course others had faster run splits, but like I have always said, when you win a race overall, your last split is to be taken with a grain of salt. And Ali is the king of shutting it down when it is in the bag, so. I wouldn't read too much into his run split except that he ran fast enough to win...


I had a very strong feeling he was going to win this race, sure wish we could have bet on it with those great odds they were giving. That seemed like the real lock as far as odds and payouts go for sure...

I'm out as we speak drinking with Leeds finest with the 7/1 Skybet offered on a AB/JB 1/2 never thought that would happen though was convinced JB would win with AB being focused on longer.

AB has hardly turned up for ITU over the last few years, it makes you think if he had/hadn't (fitness/injury permitted or not) how dominant he'd have been.

Dan, it's not the college that is the issue. It's the "we own you now" when they take the scholarships to do D1 single sports that is an American specific problem. How many US junior triathletes are *promised* to be able to tri cross training only to find out through peer/coach/environment/personal pressure that they just cant hack it and have to stop tri training. I can give you atleast 4 top juniors (one being a world junior champion) that that was the case in the past 3 years alone.

Ben Kanute has really been the only junior that has bucked the trend and didnt go D1 athletics (i dont know if this was because of lack of scholarships or was truly a triathlon goal). But there are others that I can name right now that have went the "20 year old pro triathlete full time" route and you would say 'who is that" and that would be kinda the reason why you see so many others taking the guranteed $100k in D1 single sport scholarship. Of course I'm stoked that Austin Hindman has been "promised" to cross train at Mizzou. Of course I dont think Mizzou is a powerhouse run program, so that may afford him some more leeway.

So I am not saying there is a right or wrong way. I cant blame a family that looks at $100k or having to live 6 in an 2 bedroom apt to train full time and suggests to their kid to take the D1 money.
ETA: I also know if you are a male that goes D1 route for the scholarship, you are in a very big hole coming out of college, I dont care how much "tri cross training" you were or weren't allowed to do. Demands of competition are just drastically different then the women's sport currently (although the women's sport is starting to evolve).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Or how much more injured?

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http://www.sweat7.com
Facebook Page: Sweat7
Twitter: @sweat7coaching

There is no 'academic scholarships' for nationally ranked athletes in Europe.....

Either you go Pro = all in; or you focus on your academic performance = reduced training hours, support, etc.

Easy to forget that the American system is unique, and offers plenty of choices (that really do not deliver to the extend they theoretically could).

Mostly agree with you, however I don't think he's stopped doing speed work. I think he hasn't really decided if LC is the way to go yet or if Tokyo is a possibility so he hasn't really committed yet.
I think when he does commit to lc and all that entails, we will see real domination. Once again he showed that he can outbike the best, after swimming hard and then jog in a 31 min 10k. He looked really relaxed imo.
Hopefully this will silence some who thought he only crushes lc when he drafts or because of moto.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

As one of the posters critical of AB's drafting in Challenge Championship I'd like to point out that I dont ever think the criticism of AB was founded on that sort of logic (i.e. he will only win if he drafts). ABs talent and capacity is proven far beyond anyone else, and he is without a doubt among the top (or the top) ITU-racer, ever. This naturally puts him in a position to potentially also be the best long - course racer ever, but in my book he still needs to prove this before we hand out any medals. Will he dominate LC? Very likely. However, as I've said elsewhere, the real test of his LC abilities comes the first time he attempts a full - distance. Of course he has better odds than any of beating the rest of the field, but it has to be done.

Now back to the drafting - issue. Even though he is without a doubt world-class in all he undertakes, I'd still like to see him race clean and fair. That's all. Please carry on.

I don't know if you're counting the UK as Europe here, but there are definitely scholarships for athletes at several universities over here.

I think, by a long way, it's the best bike performance I've seen in an ITU race. Yes the course helped a small group but still am really amazing effort. AB was doing some massive pulls on the front to get them to the circuit on their own. JB always looks more comfortable on the run but then AB drops him. So what happened last weekend?

UK is no longer part of Europe...they decided to leave, remember?

Also, Slowman's examples were about Spanish athletes.

Europe doesn't mean the EU. And last time I checked, the UK were still part of it and will continue to be so for at least the next 18 months.

As someone has already said, I'm guessing he just used it as a training day once he started to feel the heat a bit he bailed on it to save it for yesterday.

Would it not be more like, "he made the standard age grouper mistake of overbiking and under nourishing on a hot day, realized on the run he was going to pay the price and move backwards, maybe not get a payday and impact the day in Leeds and thus pulled the plug".


He claimed he had no legs, but it seems like he just overbiked and blamed it on his legs rather than his own brain/execution. Awesome race in Leeds, but you can't quite use the same tactics at half IM. He just needs to tone it down a touch. He likely got away wiith overbiking in St. George. It seems doubtful that he had more legs to give on the run. But as Monty said, the run split of the race winner is irrelevant when they win.

The counter-argument that supports ABs assertion that he wasn't right from the start gun that day is that he couldn't hold Varga's feet in the swim, which he would normally be able to do.

Anyway, that's history now. Yesterday was a phenomenal performance and must go into his top 5 or top 10 races list (plenty of contenders for that list!)