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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]
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Or you could get some Mavic CXR 80's for $2800 a pair... bargain.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [Rival10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [mcevt] [ In reply to ]
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And for the record, I own 3 pairs of Zipp 808 FC wheels.

Why 3?
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [Rival10Carbon] [ In reply to ]
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Or you could just insure your bike with Velosurance like I did. http://www.velosurance.com $8500 coverage for around 46 a month. No worries now about bike being stolen or crashing. I have a $500 deductible. Now I only have to pay the money once for the bike and wheels and hopefully never crash them. If I do, I'm covered. Sounds pretty financially responsible to me

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Jun 24, 14 7:59
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [SMJ] [ In reply to ]
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I own 3 TT bikes. Stored in various locations during the summer. All have 808's.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [mcevt] [ In reply to ]
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mcevt wrote:
I am confused.

Does this mean that you do not find this post engaging?

But you responded?

Maybe I am engaging with you in a Donald Trump obnoxious way? I guess I have hope within your formula.

My thesis is not that leisure is bad. Not that working at a bike shop is bad. Not that spending on bikes is bad. But rather - making fun of someone for purchasing expensive gear that is not parallel to their personal skills is no more or no less silly than spending a considerable amount of your income on a bicycle. This group overwhelmingly seems to think stretching financially for a bike is okay and enjoys mocking the guy with the financial ability to buy cool gear. I am a very passive reader/user of ST but as a Washingtonian, I see the political demonization of the wealthy as something that has become a commonplace political practice and it disgusts me. You could argue that our President (who I supported) won 2 elections using this strategy as one of his centerpieces. So I am having a little fun with this.

No, it's not "cool" gear; it's gear with incredibly low marginal utility. I have the means to buy Zipps but it doesn't mean I will or should. A perfect example buying Zipp FC wheels for dimples for when they're covered with Zipp decals, and for the weight when anyone with access to an internet browser can determine that weight has a very marginal effect on performance.

Whether bike store employees are idiots are buying bikes with low wealth and disposable income is a distinct issue, but "rich" people are most certainly idiots for buying very low marginal utility items. Succinctly, just because a person has money doesn't mean they should spend it.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
I'm rich myself (in the context of being able to spend $5k of a bike, it is all relative) so I feel comfortable pointing out that many rich people who would make fun of a guy for spending big money on a bike have $300k in home loan debt, $80k in BMW debt, and are actually more financially unsound than the barista with the colnago.


mcevt wrote:
I find it humorous that we can post a 1000 times about rich, old posers and their silly fetish for $3600 wheels. But when a rich, old poser pushes back with sound financial logic (probably what made him rich to begin with?) .... then we resort to name calling.
People can spend on whatever they would like. I am glad that skilled, smart guys choose to work in bike shops despite the limited financial rewards. I just wonder if the Breaking Away lifestyle (equipped with fancy bike in tow) that the shop provides is really that much better than... The slow, rich guy? Both are kind of pretending. Dare I say posing?

McMansion? Really? That is so Texas.

To be fair, you should really buy easily secured assets on credit. Why would you pass on ~0% dealer financing on car? Similarly, it's sound financially to lever up real estate property to increase your capital returns. What do you think REITs and RE private firms do?

That said, do people need that 7-series BMW or assess the growth potential of their home purchase? Probably not.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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Let me explain the reasons that I buy expensive bike stuff:

1) I can.

2) When it is 5 am and I want to sleep in, I feel compelled not to waste the $ that I have spent so I get on the road. Like spending on a gym membership does for many. New stuff encourages me to use it.

3) When I am on the road with all of my fancy stuff, people (probably secretly complaining about my spending!) try to pass me or avoid being passed. My frail ego and competitive spirit then kick in. Having cool toys forces you to work harder bc it forces others around you to be more aggressive with you. I know it sounds crazy but it is true. EVERY bike shop guy wants to pass me. Some can. Some can't. Note: Most bike shop guys can't stand tri guys so a tri guy with a fancy bike is like a double Satan.

4) I am a sucker for cool stuff. I appreciate good design across a large spectrum of interests.

5) I am 45. My body is in decay. That is just a fact of biology. I am fighting the decay as hard as I can. Every summer I ride a 24 mile, no traffic light loop at the completely flat Coastal Highway of the Delaware-Maryland shore. If I can crank it above 24 mph as an average for the loop - I feel like I have put off decay by a bit. If fancy toys help me cheat a bit then so be it. If fancy toys serve as a placebo - then so be it.

6) It does not interfere with any of my family's short or long term financial interests. My wife and kids are and will be fine.

Is this sensible to you? Probably not.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [mcevt] [ In reply to ]
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mcevt wrote:
Let me explain the reasons that I buy expensive bike stuff:

1) I can.

2) When it is 5 am and I want to sleep in, I feel compelled not to waste the $ that I have spent so I get on the road. Like spending on a gym membership does for many. New stuff encourages me to use it.

3) When I am on the road with all of my fancy stuff, people (probably secretly complaining about my spending!) try to pass me or avoid being passed. My frail ego and competitive spirit then kick in. Having cool toys forces you to work harder bc it forces others around you to be more aggressive with you. I know it sounds crazy but it is true. EVERY bike shop guy wants to pass me. Some can. Some can't. Note: Most bike shop guys can't stand tri guys so a tri guy with a fancy bike is like a double Satan.

4) I am a sucker for cool stuff. I appreciate good design across a large spectrum of interests.

5) I am 45. My body is in decay. That is just a fact of biology. I am fighting the decay as hard as I can. Every summer I ride a 24 mile, no traffic light loop at the completely flat Coastal Highway of the Delaware-Maryland shore. If I can crank it above 24 mph as an average for the loop - I feel like I have put off decay by a bit. If fancy toys help me cheat a bit then so be it. If fancy toys serve as a placebo - then so be it.

6) It does not interfere with any of my family's short or long term financial interests. My wife and kids are and will be fine.

Is this sensible to you? Probably not.

No.

1. Bums can shit on the street. Should they?

2. Gym memberships don't encourage people to work out. It makes people feel better. I'm glad you're big on feelings.

3. Hint: your bike has very little to do with your ability to pass or get passed. Go lift, bro, for the anaerobic/phosphagen power to pass people. I seriously doubt you can tell who's a "bike shop guy" on the road. Sounds like delusional bs to me.

4. That's what my gf tells me about buying dresses.

5. Both road races and triathlons have age categories. Take your midlife crisis elsewhere. If you actually wanted a performance indicator, you'd ride a uphill, low speed route or you'd quote your power output. Your lack of critical thinking is most likely why you're buying Zipp wheels in the first place.

6. Again, having money is not a sufficient condition for spending money. I can spend money on women's clothing. Does that mean I should?
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
jackmott wrote:
many rich people who would make fun of a guy for spending big money on a bike have $300k in home loan debt, $80k in BMW debt, and are actually more financially unsound than the barista with the colnago.



Agreed 100% with this. I drive a 2001 Honda Accord with 200,000 miles because it runs perfectly fine. I'd rather buy another Honda than waste money on a BMW or massive house. I've often heard the key to being rich is to live modest. A $5000 bike doesn't move the meter that much in the bigger picture of what you could spend money on.

I've observed this to be true.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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How about:

7) If I, and all of my kind, keep all of our money the US economy will collapse. Consumption is vital to the success of our country.

8) If I don't waste my money, I would get even wealthier and then really piss you off.

Is it okay for me to buy $3600 Zipp wheels now?
Last edited by: mcevt: Jun 24, 14 10:03
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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Define rich.

Define modest.

The truth is that it is all about the ratio of money spent vs what you have - and not the end #'s. Depending on what you earn/have, driving a fancy car(s) and living in a luxury home(s) may in fact be living modestly compared to what you have.

Ask a real estate agent in a major heated market (NY, SF, LA, DC, Boston) and they will tell you that the vast majority of buyers in the 2-3 million and up bracket are CASH buyers. If they are paying cash, I would assume they can afford it.

Plenty of financial posers out there, but when you get to certain brackets - the bank is simply not going to give you the $. You have to have the $. Can you buy a 500K condo and lease a fancy car? Sure. But that is really the end of the line for most posers. It is very true that some max out every dime they have into lifestyle choices. This of course leads to bad outcomes... like bike shop guys with overly expensive bikes. And $3600 Zipp wheels.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [mcevt] [ In reply to ]
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mcevt wrote:
How about:

7) If I, and all of my kind, keep all of our money the US economy will collapse. Consumption is vital to the success of our country.

8) If I don't waste my money, I would get even wealthier and then really piss you off.

Is it okay for me to buy $3600 Zipp wheels now?

Only when you admit it's because of your penis envy.

7. No. Production of labor and resources is vital to the success of our country.

8. Doubtful. That assumes your non-capital gains income is more than mine, and that you invest your money better than me. Given your total lack of financial sense, the latter is highly improbable. You might have lucked out into the former though.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [mcevt] [ In reply to ]
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mcevt wrote:
Define rich.

Define modest.

The truth is that it is all about the ratio of money spent vs what you have - and not the end #'s. Depending on what you earn/have, driving a fancy car(s) and living in a luxury home(s) may in fact be living modestly compared to what you have.

Ask a real estate agent in a major heated market (NY, SF, LA, DC, Boston) and they will tell you that the vast majority of buyers in the 2-3 million and up bracket are CASH buyers. If they are paying cash, I would assume they can afford it.

Plenty of financial posers out there, but when you get to certain brackets - the bank is simply not going to give you the $. You have to have the $. Can you buy a 500K condo and lease a fancy car? Sure. But that is really the end of the line for most posers. It is very true that some max out every dime they have into lifestyle choices. This of course leads to bad outcomes... like bike shop guys with overly expensive bikes. And $3600 Zipp wheels.

Smart rich people don't pay cash for real estate. They may buy real estate noncontingent on mortgage approval but no one with a basic understanding of finance would buy cash.

Banks make money based on lending, they will lend if they think they can get paid back, which is predicated as much on future income as it is on wealth. You can pose a long way further than condo and fancy car.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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Cool wheels. Never paid retail for a pair of zipps in my life. Maybe I will pick up a pair in the future, but sounds like I should call the Suze Orman show first....
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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Who am I supposed to envy?

The Zipp guy who makes the wheel and takes all of my money leaving me penniless or at the very least below you?

The guy who rides faster than me without the $3600 wheels?

Someone who is richer than me and we are in a quasi arms race for Zipp products? And he too, may ride faster than me. Richer and faster would be the daily double of envy. Maybe he has a prettier wife and smarter kids? (I may have to buy 2 wheelsets if that is all true.)

I am so confused. Who am I supposed to envy? I just want to buy the wheels.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [mcevt] [ In reply to ]
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mcevt wrote:
Who am I supposed to envy?

The Zipp guy who makes the wheel and takes all of my money leaving me penniless or at the very least below you?

The guy who rides faster than me without the $3600 wheels?

Someone who is richer than me and we are in a quasi arms race for Zipp products? And he too, may ride faster than me. Richer and faster would be the daily double of envy. Maybe he has a prettier wife and smarter kids? (I may have to buy 2 wheelsets if that is all true.)

I am so confused. Who am I supposed to envy? I just want to buy the wheels.

I didn't see a single reference to phalluses or Freud, so I'm not sure what you're even replying to.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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If you have or when you do buy a 3 million dollar + piece of real estate (particularly when you have multiple residences and it is not your primary) - you can be the outlier and try to work with the bank on that loan package.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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aravilare wrote:
mcevt wrote:
How about:

7) If I, and all of my kind, keep all of our money the US economy will collapse. Consumption is vital to the success of our country.

8) If I don't waste my money, I would get even wealthier and then really piss you off.

Is it okay for me to buy $3600 Zipp wheels now?


Only when you admit it's because of your penis envy.

7. No. Production of labor and resources is vital to the success of our country.

8. Doubtful. That assumes your non-capital gains income is more than mine, and that you invest your money better than me. Given your total lack of financial sense, the latter is highly improbable. You might have lucked out into the former though.

You're both wrong because you're both right. Those two ideas are inclusive not exclusive. Without consumption production is irrelevant. Without production consumption is irrelevant. It used to be that the former was more difficult to drive. Now it's the latter. A flaw in our monetary system has led to chronic aggregate demand shortfalls.

Bet the Zipp marketing people didn't anticipate this conversation.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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> just because a person has money doesn't mean they should spend it.

Is all discretionary spending foolish?

Or just discretionary spending on Zipps?
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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Smart rich people don't pay cash for real estate. They may buy real estate noncontingent on mortgage approval but no one with a basic understanding of finance would buy cash.

That's only true when the form of financing doesn't affect the availability of the property. It many hot markets, borrowing is not an option because (i) there are multiple bidders for every property, (ii) sellers give priority to all-cash buyers, and therefore (iii) if you are not willing to pay cash you cannot buy.
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [mcevt] [ In reply to ]
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mcevt wrote:
If you have or when you do buy a 3 million dollar + piece of real estate (particularly when you have multiple residences and it is not your primary) - you can be the outlier and try to work with the bank on that loan package.

My family does. Get a better mortgage broker, put more equity in the house, or offer more collateral. Why would you let your money just sit there at the bottom of the capstack?
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [SMJ] [ In reply to ]
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SMJ wrote:
Quote:
Smart rich people don't pay cash for real estate. They may buy real estate noncontingent on mortgage approval but no one with a basic understanding of finance would buy cash.


That's only true when the form of financing doesn't affect the availability of the property. It many hot markets, borrowing is not an option because (i) there are multiple bidders for every property, (ii) sellers give priority to all-cash buyers, and therefore (iii) if you are not willing to pay cash you cannot buy.

"noncontingent on mortgage approval"
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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one thing the "rich" guys fail to realize is that maybe they were afforded better opportunity from their parents, inheritance, etc... then the bike shop guy was. Maybe "rich guy" doesnt understand whats its like to have true passion about something other then money.

Maybe "rich guy" should worry about his own spending and not others??

As for me, It doesnt really matter. I don't need to boost my ego by telling everyone how well off I am. What I will say that I worked in the surf industry nfor many years before my own business took off and you cant put a price on passion and true love for a lifestyle.

It may be a hobby to some, but its a lifestyle to others kinda like counting cash is to others.

you want zipps then buy them, me Ill buy flo's because it makes the most fiscal sense and my ego is fine where it is

Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3
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Re: New Zipp Firestrike 404 [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not sure how aero the $2500 I'd have left over would be flapping in the wind.

$3600 is insane. Zipp don't seem to have looked around and seen what their competitors are doing.

Ken


"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman
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