Could not agree more.

What amazes me are the bike shop employees with $5000 bikes.

I do not advocate anyone putting themselves behind the financial 8-ball for bicycle stuff. But it makes more sense for a Goldman Sachs guy to blow it on $3600 Zipps as opposed to a normal earner buying $5000 bikes, $400 shoes, $300 helmets, or even ... $1200 wheels.

A $3600 wheelset is yet another toy to the rich guy. It is in lieu of savings/financial planning for others.

Haters are always going to hate the rich guy - but his (or her) logic is not nearly as twisted as others.

 
>What amazes me are the bike shop employees with $5000 bikes.

Those are ~$2500 bikes for bike shop employees. For you it's $5000.

Also, it's marketing. Bike shop employees also tend to be biker riders/racer. When you're racing with the shop kit on, representing the shop, you want to be on a P5, not a P1. That's what brings people in. Then you can downsell them if they get sticker shock.

Fair enough. But if you are making sub $20 an hour - as I assume most bike shop guys are. And then paying taxes. A $2500 bike is out of line. Completely out of line for a hobby. But if you garner enjoyment from it - go for it. BUT don't ridicule others for their spending. Makes no sense.

It has become the American way to demonize the rich. But we do not address the often flawed finances and practices of normal Americans (aka bike shop guys). The fact that some can not afford a downpayment on a home or to pay down student loans, but have a 5-10-15K bike - should speak volumes.

Completely out of line for a hobby.

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Except most "bike shop guys" arent in this for a "hobby". It's more a lifestyle that can warrant the spending. This is their "industry".

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

So a guy who makes $20 per hour. With no savings. Blows $5-10K on a "Lifestyle" choice. And that is okay?

TO ME - the bike shop lifestyle basically is sitting around with a bunch of other bike rich/cash poor guys, debating Froome vs Contador and riding a bike fast enough to be "fast" but too slow to be an elite money making athlete. Isn't it really just a hobby that we are stretching into a lifestyle?

The true paradox of the whole thing is that these same lifestyle bike shop guys - pray daily that the old, fat, rich guys come into the shop and buy $3600 Zipp wheels. And then make fun of them after they buy them (on slowtwitch or to their peers), pointing out the absurdity of the purchase.

I have been reading the "Rich Guy Poser Thread" thread for years here on Slowtwitch. As a slightly fat, slightly rich, old guy - I am fighting back today! To me the ULTIMATE poser, is the guy who is over his head financially and buys this stuff bc he is "Fast" or it is a "Lifestyle".

If I want the wheels, I can buy them. Won't move my meter one bit. But I'll wait for the 808 version coming for Interbike, or next Spring, or whenever. Will they make me faster? Nope. But they will encourage me to use them at 5:30 am when my wife and kids are sleeping and that is all that really matters.

Well there is a huge difference in $5k you are talking about when describing an spending of $5k-$10k. The numbers you quoted, I can put them to a "bike guy" and spend likely 40% less on everything you listed and still be under $5k bike (not counting an pair of zipp wheels obviously).

I'm not going to say your account of how bike guys acts is wrong, and that's probaly shame on them. But I think your over inflating your numbers to prove your point.

One thing I do know. A bike guy isnt going to spend anywhere close to the price you pay for anything they get when it comes to bike related stuff. They will EP the hell out of every item they can (usually they get 1 "bike" and "wheel" EP per year, which allows them to get the items at almost cost, or cost +10%).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

To me the ULTIMATE poser, is the guy who is over his head financially and buys this stuff bc he is "Fast" or it is a "Lifestyle".

____________

While they may not be making the bank with a $20 per hour job, they also are buying product at reasonable prices for them. They will buy a $5k bike at $2800 (I got a $5k road bike for $1500 from interbike sale because i work in the industry, etc), not $5k which is what you will buy.

ETA: Another thing you'll notice. That bike guy will turn around and sell that bike in 15 months for either what he bought it for or even make money. So again, when I said it's more than a hobby, they can work the system to keep their heads afloat even when they dont make alot of money. Again, you are probaly right about their attitudes, and I'm not trying to defend that. But I will defend their spending habits because it's not simply blowing money to blow money, so to speak.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Did inflate the #'s for further noise! But this sport is absurdly expensive. Bikes (road and tri!), wheels, cycling shoes, running shoes, bibs, jerseys, helmets, oakleys, etc, etc, etc. 5K at wholesale does not buy much on an annual basis if you purchase a new bike.

But the financial principals are intact. Making 30-40K a year pre-tax with no savings - you have ZERO business blowing $2800 on this stuff. Lots of bike shop guys don't even have health insurance, yet they spend a disproportionate amount of their income on a dangerous (cycling) sport that they really can't afford. And then laugh at ME! What would the long term results of investing the $2800 be compared to consuming it on a bicycle?

If we are going to scrutinize/mock the spending habits of those who can afford things, we should do the same for the other side of the ledger. Since when did lifestyle choices become more important or at least override common sense financial principals? Just bc I want it, or it is really cool, or it fits in my lifestyle choice - it does not mean that you should buy it.

And for the record, I own 3 pairs of Zipp 808 FC wheels. The more I look at the pretty pictures of the new 404 fireSTRIKE ... The more I want them. Moth to a flame kind of stuff for the this slightly fat, rich, old guy.

Sure scrutinize/mock all you want. Just have a understanding of how they are spending money, which was my point about you inflating the numbers. They can actually make a very absurdly expensive sport into an "reasonable" affordable hobby/lifestyle/spending choice.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

And my point is that it is still not reasonable ($2K) compared to their income. It is a bicycle. But I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable" and/or your desire to establish a financial base for the future. At the # bike shops pay, that group of guys are usually one paycheck away from their parents basement. Being a Lifestyle satisfied Wayne or Garth with a fancy bike is still foolish.

And I am the poser bc I can barely crack 24 miles in 60 minutes (depends on the wind and have to be on a really good day!) but buy stuff that would put me on par with a Kona/TDF pro?

No one stands up for the fat cat bc it is not PC. I will!

As I said I won't defend actions of you being a "fred" in their eyes (the general you, laughing at you for having $3k wheels and going 16.5 mph). That's pretty freaking silly on their part. Your spending is what keeps shops open. Your an easy sell, come in know you want top end gear and out you go. It's the reasonable shopper that wants to always bargain hunt that are destroying shops as those shops likely don't always budge from prices.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

If you are doing under an hour in a 40k, you are not the kind of person we are laughing about.

Shops make more money with employees going fast on mid range bikes. Sell the go fast parts. You have a limited number if 10,000.00 bike buyers.

I guess I am in a similar situation as mcevt... I have more disposable income than most people do. I love riding and also love the buying/selling/upgrading stuff. I rarely buy retail (who doesn't like a good deal?).. and love "meeting" new people on the buy/sell boards.

I am fast enough in the group of friends I ride with... training buddy is a Cat 3. I can hang with him as long as it's flat and windy.

People get all freaked out about people being "Freds"... why does anyone care? Do your own thing and be happy.

I see people writing all over the boards how they love to blow by the Freds on 10K bikes during a race. I kinda like blowing by 20 somethings when I'm 50. Works both ways :)

I went through 14 years of education AFTER high school to get to the point in life where I can support a family in a nice lifestyle... and buy some nice wheels when I want to...

When I was sleeping in ON CALL ROOMS like a peasant... many of my friends were already working and making decent money. There is more than one way to pay your dues.

The reason guys work at bike shops, is so that they don't have to pay 5k for a "5k" bike. Some work at bikes shops part time so they can get the employee discount. The best discount is the industry purchase...where you buy directly from the manufacturer...like Zipp...that pricing will blow your socks off.

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________________
Cervelo S2/Zipp 404

And once you've invested in the equipment, you can often flip stuff as you please without really investing any more money on getting new stuff, sometimes coming out a little ahead.



I wouldn't say so. I worked in shops for about 10 years during school and had a blast. I hung out with bike people, talked about bikes, rode bikes, worked on bikes, etc. If something occupying 80% of your time isn't considered a lifestyle, I don't know what is. People have different priorities, like I said, I had a ton of fun and did a bunch of cool things and don't regret it. I didn't (and don't) consider life to be some balance sheet that needs to necessarily be squared up at all times. The options were to live in squalor and put aside a paltry amount of money each month, but be able to do absolutely nothing, or throw caution to the wind and enjoy the benefits while I could, knowing they wouldn't be there in the future. With the money most shop people are making, you're looking at financial ruin with or without saving what meager amount of money you can. Like telling someone with full sleeve tattoos that they made a poor personal choice because it will affect their ability to get a job, we knew it wasn't sound financial planning, we just didn't care.

Sure, because maybe he didn't spend any money on a car, or spend money on a huge mcmansion like the rich asshole lecturing him about buying a nice bike?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Exactly what I was going to say. Lots of these guys ride to work. 2800 dollars for a reliable mode of transportation AND weekend opportunities to grab some cash THEN flip the bike for a 800 dollar profit is how it works.

I don't see a 3k purchase when making 37k is such a huge stretch. It's not like most of these guys are living in houses. Typically renting with roommates, so living expenses are very low.

This is their lifestyle. It isn't fun and games for many. They actually race on the weekends. That's how they make a living

I find it humorous that we can post a 1000 times about rich, old posers and their silly fetish for $3600 wheels. But when a rich, old poser pushes back with sound financial logic (probably what made him rich to begin with?) .... then we resort to name calling.
People can spend on whatever they would like. I am glad that skilled, smart guys choose to work in bike shops despite the limited financial rewards. I just wonder if the Breaking Away lifestyle (equipped with fancy bike in tow) that the shop provides is really that much better than... The slow, rich guy? Both are kind of pretending. Dare I say posing?

McMansion? Really? That is so Texas.

No, what makes most people rich in the first place is the ability to connect with and engage people. Unfortunately, that's a quality that's not selected for on an anonymous internet forum.

Sound financial logic would dictate you stop spending time on leisure and spend more time on making money, and certainly not posting about being the "slightly fat, rich, old guy". The reality is that the young, in shape, rich guy who understands how to spend his time (training and otherwise) is going to drop you all.

I am confused.

Does this mean that you do not find this post engaging?

But you responded?

Maybe I am engaging with you in a Donald Trump obnoxious way? I guess I have hope within your formula.

My thesis is not that leisure is bad. Not that working at a bike shop is bad. Not that spending on bikes is bad. But rather - making fun of someone for purchasing expensive gear that is not parallel to their personal skills is no more or no less silly than spending a considerable amount of your income on a bicycle. This group overwhelmingly seems to think stretching financially for a bike is okay and enjoys mocking the guy with the financial ability to buy cool gear. I am a very passive reader/user of ST but as a Washingtonian, I see the political demonization of the wealthy as something that has become a commonplace political practice and it disgusts me. You could argue that our President (who I supported) won 2 elections using this strategy as one of his centerpieces. So I am having a little fun with this.

Lol. I always joke you can tell when I am full training since my number of posts goes down. Today I am braking the rule, coffee is going down slow today.

I am not that fat or slow, but I do enjoy the comments I get when people catch up at stop lights and state that "that P5 must be fast" obviously since I am so old I can't pedal. I either reply, "yes if it wasn't for this bike I couldn't pedal at all." Or "not really that fast , it looks cool, and it's roughly 1.5-2 minutes faster over 112 miles than my old bike, not really any faster on this route.", "so why did you buy it". "Because I can" "I had a tough time telling my wife, I am spending that much because it looks cool". It is a bit stiffer than my P3 though.

But I race it, to me the posers are on $15k pinarellos acting like they are in the tour cutting blind corners on a bike/run path while I am trying to run. Those guys deserve the criticism for being dangerously stupid.

I'm rich myself (in the context of being able to spend $5k of a bike, it is all relative) so I feel comfortable pointing out that many rich people who would make fun of a guy for spending big money on a bike have $300k in home loan debt, $80k in BMW debt, and are actually more financially unsound than the barista with the colnago.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Agreed 100% with this. I drive a 2001 Honda Accord with 200,000 miles because it runs perfectly fine. I'd rather buy another Honda than waste money on a BMW or massive house. I've often heard the key to being rich is to live modest. A $5000 bike doesn't move the meter that much in the bigger picture of what you could spend money on.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

You make some good points, mcevt. It has brought to mind two things.

I was working a corner as a volunteer at a bike race a couple of years ago. For the womens 1/2 race a girl in her early to mid 20's goes down, over her bars, straight in with her face. Face was jacked up, missing some teeth, just totally f'd up. I run over there and get her bike off the course, and try to keep her still, but she is standing up. She sits down and leans on me and is shaking a bit with pain and is a dazed. The first thing out of her mouth is 'please don't call an ambulance, I don't have insurance'. And I basically said, 'honey, there isn't a damn thing any of us can do for you here. You have to go to the hospital'. She goes to the hospital. I help her friend collect her bike. You know where this is going...brand new tarmac (actually, Amira) with dura ace. Like mcevt, many of us can cut a check for any bike with any components, and not even think about an acct balance. I ride a cheap cannondale supersix (bought a season late with dust on it), with rival. However, I definitely can take that ride in the ambulance when my luck finally runs out.

The other thing that always breaks my heart is when I hear of the guys getting killed. Every year or two you hear of some great guy with two kids and a wife, really active in the racing community, strong guy, always helps out the noobs, works some job he has passion for (bike shop, advocacy, whatever), not rich, but rich in experience, and he gets run over. Then there is a fundraiser for his family. It's called 'life insurance' you idiots. 'Rich in experiences', still usually costs SOME money. Maybe Mr. Cool-Guy did an ironman ($500 race), maybe he did RAAM one time (god only knows $ with support), maybe he took a month off work to bicycle tour South America a couple years ago. If you have a wife and kids, pay the $50 a month, because when you don't, you're not Mr. Cool-Guy, you're a fucking failure as a husband and father.

People are going to pile on mcevt with the 'who are you to tell them/me what to do with their/my money'. Others will give you the old 'judge not, lest ye be judged'. Maybe these folks need to realize that honest feedback like this might not have ever been shared with these individuals, especially if they're younger.

I'd also point out that employee deals (my brother-in-law works at a bike shop), are usually 50%, like other posters mention. They can usually sell after a year or a year and a half, and get it all back or make a couple hundred on it. HOWEVER... if that bike is destroyed in a crash, which is not all unlikely, they're still out a couple thousand. So if you make $35k/yr, $2.5k is still A LOT of money to have at risk. Lifestyle or not. It's still a poor decision.