I'm sure Jackmott is upset.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Prices are getting absolutely ridiculous....

C'mon, you get a free wheel bag now, bargain!!

So $850 above the existing Firecrest for improved dimples yet they still cover them with stickers. I think these will be the ultimate Fred detection tool.

Did you read the article? The logos are printed on so the dimples are not covered.

Who has dimples on their bum

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http://RoadID.com/...te/4HC4V-TAFQ9XPJDTX

I predict completely cylindrical rims by 2018 with the tyre embedded inside.

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ZONE3 - We Last Longer

More information to read:

http://lavamagazine.com/...at-summer-presscamp/

http://www.bikerumor.com/...vels-plus-202-discs/

It's definitely an improvement to Firecrest but wow the price increase is rough

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Clearly not close enough! Just based my statement on the photos from bikerumor.

I would argue the increased braking power is worth it but these are brand new and we need to wait for reviews

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Not only a free wheel bag but quick releases and tires at a price 20% less than Reynolds RZRs! I was going to put that in pink except its true. $4500 for a wheel set and they aren't even going to throw in the $30 quick release that are pictured with the wheels on the Reynolds website (Im sure its these http://www.planetx.co.uk/...e-with-carbon-levers). Really does make the Zipps look like a bargain.

"MSRP is $3,600 and they are available immediately"

shocking that they are available immediately :)

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

For the pointiest of the pointy end I imagine. I bet a pair of Flos (or maybe some used FC rims), a power meter, and a seasons worth of coaching would do more for most people.

For $3600 I can throw staggered forged 19'' wheels on my mustang and have money left over to put towards tires. The bike industry is really losing touch with reality.

Lol, I'm going to use that someday. IMO, they would've been better served by building a proprietary tire. Probably more to gain on that front.

I imagine you'll see more of these in the back half of the pack than the front half.

I'm glad I'm poor and BOP. I'd really hate to have the money to be a total Fred and not be fast enough to be worth it.

Saw the feature on the front page and thought - there will be a thread on there already. But I was wrong - 2 threads already!! Zipp love on this forum is immense.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

Agreed completely with this but I love the constant improvement to our gear. I'm glad I haven't bought wheels yet!

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

True but with Firestrike there is no risk of getting dropped by your coach mid season

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Boots
Fleet Feet Rochester, NY
Fleet Feet Buffalo, NY
YellowJacket Racing, Rochester, NY

HAHAHAHHAHAH I just about spit my coffee out all over my computer

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

$50 shoe covers make a bigger drag reduction difference than the best deep section rims and that's in laboratory conditions. Buying these is a "want" not a "need".

Note: I own several pairs of deep section wheels, I'm not judging.

Because you won't be able to afford one after you've bought the wheels?

tons of people rocking old wheels, and wheel with covers on the front (races) than on the back...

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The entire event (IM) is like "death by 1000 cuts" and the best race is minimizing all those cuts and losing less blood than the other guy. - Dev

FTW!

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________________________________________________
“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a harder battle.” - Plato

Could somebody explain this comment to me (I saw it online):

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_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

Why?... why are you using your brakes so much in a TT?

Sorry for the tangent, but seriously, why are some people so wrapped up in how great the braking "feel" is? You either slow down, or your don't. The sensation of wheel lock-up and braking force and tire grip comes from you contact points on the pedals/shoes, then bars & seat. Trying to feel what the tire and road are doing through a brake lever is myth. It's nice to have a firm linear feel with the brakes, but it's not critical.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

it's about a 15gm savings at 5yaw and above 10yaw slower. For the very fastest riders maybe :01s/km faster. I bet an 808FC is faster up front.

Slower riders will benefit more from the FC vs this new Zipp since at >10yaw the FC is faster.

IMO not worth it. The FC now are looking like bargain wheels.

Props to Zipp for rolling out something new though.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Which part of it?

This guy seems to like larger volume tires so he can run lower pressures. So he'd like a wider bead hook width.

His assumption is that Zipp is using a thick brake track to manage heat produced by braking and this is the reason that the bead hook width isn't wider.

The comment about aluminum… Well it's much much cheaper and provides better braking. He's implying the reason people are driven to carbon clinchers is for aesthetics alone, not improved performance. So companies are doing a ton of engineering to try to match the braking performance of aluminum in carbon, and people are paying a ton of money for this engineering when it isn't necessary… except that people think it looks cool. If aluminum could be made to look as cool he suspects that people would jump at the lower cost.

At least I think that's what he's getting at. I can't say that I disagree with that last point.

Lots of people use 404s in road and crit racing. It's not a dedicated TT wheel.

Thanks. I'm not that in tune with wheel stuff so I couldn't follow his logic.

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_________________________________
The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.

It's about time. I've always found it hilarious that Zipp touts their dimples, yet always covered up half the wheel with stickers.

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Proud Member of Chris McDonald's 2018 Big Sexy Race Team "That which doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger"
Blog-Twitter-Instagram-Race Reports - 2018 Races: IM Florida 70.3, IM Raleigh 70.3, IM 70.3 World Championships - South Africa, IM North Carolina 70.3

Fat stacks, 4 large...BITCH! - Jesse Pinkman on the new Zipp Firestrike 404s.

People with money to waste.
I'd rather sacrifice a few grams of drag (maybe?) and get a pair of Swiss Side Hadrons at the same weight and alu braking.

My buddy showed up on his new bike with Zipp 30 training wheels this past week.
Didn't want to be a dick and tell him that my FLO 30's were similar wheels for less than half the price.

Lets see, a pair of FLO 30's, FLO 60's, FLO 90's and FLO DISC all with Conti 4000s tires, latex tubes and cassettes with skewers and money left over.

OR

One set of Zipp Firestrike 404's

why?.....why are you using 404s in a TT? FIFY

you mean 0.15s/km per ROT or 6sec for 40k

And one of those is available to order, while the other...

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

I have several FLO wheels. If you can't get them, you're not trying.

And lots of people train on their race wheels, as well.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

The 404 is a road racing wheel, not a TT wheel. I've only done one TT on 404's. I've done ALL of my road races for the last four years or so on various versions of the 404. Braking is important in road races. Especially on something like the descent on the back side of Mt. Hamilton.

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

i can't even begin to comprehend the pricing on these. any person i ever meet that shows me their FS 404s, not sponsored by Zipp, will forever be banished to my "idiots i don't want to associate with" list.

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@adamwfurlong

Well, the ZIPP FC should come down in price now...hopefully.

those are the people you keep around because they often turn around and buy something else and sell their lightly used nice stuff cheap.

Maybe on the secondary market, but there was no mention of dropping the price of them new.

Disclaimer: I don't own FS404s.

However, each person has their own reason for purchasing them. Some people drive fancy/high horse power cars not because they want to drive down the road faster than the car next to them. Some people purchase houses with more rooms than they will ever need. That doesn't make them idiots. Perhaps those who own FS404 are not the "idiots" that you think they are. They may be really smart and successful people who make a lot more money than you. Spending $3600 on a wheelset to them is like you purchasing a $50 Conti 4000s tire. There are folks out there who think that anyone who drops $1,000+ on a bike is an idiot.

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__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

For $3600 one can get a really nice 10 year old Honda....

Why spend $3600 on this when we can spend about $900 to maybe $1200 (Flo and Williams) and get something that is just as fast?

Zipp brand was the shit when they were the only game in town, ergo they were able to charge these prices. Nowadays there's a staggering number of carbon wheel choices. Their marketing people have not figured this out, apparently.

any truth to the rumor they'll throw in a trucker hat?

Only if you shill them on your twitter. If not, they buy the wheels back.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/...64_M1&mv_pc=r105

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

New hubs look nice but would like to have seen the internal width increase from ~17mm to maybe 21mm but even then, at that price point I would go fror a custom set of Enve carbon wheels with Extralite or Tune hubs.

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¯\_(ツ)_/¯

True but with Firestrike there is no risk of getting dropped by your coach mid season

Boots, my friend, that's gold right there.

Post-Of-The-Week for sure!

On the serious side - it's called R & D and innovation. You watch some of the features in this wheel will trickle down and be available on less expensive wheels by ZIPP in the future.


Cervelo did this with the California Project frame. Who's going to buy a $10,000 frame? They only made about 300. I know some were bought and others used by the Garmin-Sharp team, but then, some of those features and technology introduced on the RCA, was available in the other R-series Cervelo bikes, within a year or two, at a fraction of the cost!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

But they use silicon carbide....

(if you aren't a top gear fan, watch the first minute here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE_WqdKbTvY )

My bad... i got too tri focused. Yes in road racing I've smelled my pads many of times. They like to mostly water down most bike courses for the masses in triathlons.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Agreed. Anyone can spend their money on premium gear if they can afford it. To a poor person, buying a bike for anything other than getting to a job would be considered wasteful.

That said, the socialist side of me would like to think if I ever had that kind of dough I would invest in altruistic projects...

Mm hmm.

OK, I'll just pop over to the FLO website and place an order. Oh, they're out of stock? OK, I'll just order and let them fill their backorders at their own pace. Oh, they don't do that? OK, I'll get on the preorder list. Oh, they don't do that? OK, I'll just wait around for the next order shitshow and pray that my click-fu is up to snuff. Oh, there were server issues again and I missed out because some dentist made his receptionist buy him his 4th set of FLOs?

It's been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, and this is kinda off-topic, so I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm just really happy that I'm not in the market for a wheelset, FLO or Firestrike or otherwise.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

I've ordered twice - including on the pre order and haven't had as much difficulty as you believe there to be. You go on a couple minutes before the start time and then make you selection. If you miss out there's another order the following month roughly. Seems worth it to save some money.

I must be smarter than you I guess. *shrug*

Funny, I thought when you buy something you are "spending" money, not saving it!

As to the Firestrikes, they seem to be trying to say that they are the absolute "best" wheels on that market to command such a premium over their already very good other wheels. I wonder if these new wheels will come with hubs that don't crap out every few thousand miles...

Classy. Have a nice weekend.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

I am curious to see if they will still sell the Firecrest wheels.

In the world of expensive wheels, $3600 is not that expensive really. Lightweight wheels are in the $7-8k range. Reynolds Rzr's are $4500

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I just bought a pair of FLOs in the order week before last. I went on the web site 5 minutes before the sale began. Buying my wheels took under 60 seconds, since I knew what I wanted. It was effortless and I really don't understand what all the fuss is about.

Well, something you're making out to be a huge deal many people have done many times. What's your explanation for why they can all handle it and you can't?

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Shoe cover speed gains are rider dependent. Jim at ERO sports has confirmed that shoe covers don't always reduce drag in their testing.

 

>On the serious side - it's called R & D and innovation. You watch some of the features in this wheel will trickle down and be available on less expensive wheels by ZIPP in the future.

Zipp seems to be putting very little effort into their less expensive wheels. Right now that seems to include the Zipp 30 and 60, and those are Zipp circa 2010, in just two depths, with no Firecrest-like shape.


The trickle down seems to be happening with Zipp->other manufacturers.

I'm a bit befuddled by Zipp's line as well. IMO, a wise business strategy would be three tiers: low, medium, and high. Their low end could be something like a zipp 101: aluminum with a toroidal shape and steel bearings. Middle ground would be a firecrest shape but on an aluminum wheel with steel bearings. High end would be pure carbon (tubular or clincher) with the new "firestrike" shape and ceramic bearings.

I guess they have this now but, IMO, their price points are way off. Ideally you'd make the "middle choice" wheel the one with the highest margin as consumers tend to gravitate toward the "middle choice" so long as it is within their income. Use the high-end product as a "halo" if you will.

Well, with the 60 and 80 being the old 404 and 808, those at least have "trickled down". There hasn't been much time since the FireStrike was announced to see if the FireCrest shape will migrate downwards - I'd give it some time.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Where is this Zipp 80 that you speak of? I don't see it on their website

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I thought there was a Zipp 80 that was the old SRAM S80, same as the 60. Guess I just assumed that when they did the 60.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I'm not in the market for a wheelset, and thank god I'm not. Every indignant response to my post IN PINK has seemed to miss that.

Listen, I applaud the FLO guys for embarking on a difficult adventure and making a good product. I acknowledge that they've delivered to lots and lots of happy customers. I also can't ignore the however-many-hundreds-of-posts thread that debates their business model ad nauseum, nor the dueling "Yay I successfully ordered a wheel" vs "FLO order problem" threads every single time they release a new batch of wheels and sell them out in 90 seconds.

There's a certain elegance in being able to just buy a particular product when you'd like to, no?

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

This is one of the best posts I have ever read on Slowtwitch

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I contacted Zipp and asked about a future Zipp 80 (the old 808). They said they have no plans to release one. Therefore we are stuck with the Zipp 60s. I think there's a market for a Zipp 60 and Zipp 80 for the mid level crowd. They should really think about making a Zipp 80

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Meh... I really don't get the Zip focus anyway. I'd rather go with November Rails (which I have) or HED Jet 5 Express and get wider rims that work better with 23c tires. The classic hybrid toroidal is old and busted.

Or, soon, the Hadrons. Or Flos. So many better options...

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I agree with you 100%. The toridal shape is definitely outdated. But the budget crowd really doesn't care and would probably buy them.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Could not agree more.

What amazes me are the bike shop employees with $5000 bikes.

I do not advocate anyone putting themselves behind the financial 8-ball for bicycle stuff. But it makes more sense for a Goldman Sachs guy to blow it on $3600 Zipps as opposed to a normal earner buying $5000 bikes, $400 shoes, $300 helmets, or even ... $1200 wheels.

A $3600 wheelset is yet another toy to the rich guy. It is in lieu of savings/financial planning for others.

Haters are always going to hate the rich guy - but his (or her) logic is not nearly as twisted as others.

 
>What amazes me are the bike shop employees with $5000 bikes.

Those are ~$2500 bikes for bike shop employees. For you it's $5000.

Also, it's marketing. Bike shop employees also tend to be biker riders/racer. When you're racing with the shop kit on, representing the shop, you want to be on a P5, not a P1. That's what brings people in. Then you can downsell them if they get sticker shock.

Fair enough. But if you are making sub $20 an hour - as I assume most bike shop guys are. And then paying taxes. A $2500 bike is out of line. Completely out of line for a hobby. But if you garner enjoyment from it - go for it. BUT don't ridicule others for their spending. Makes no sense.

It has become the American way to demonize the rich. But we do not address the often flawed finances and practices of normal Americans (aka bike shop guys). The fact that some can not afford a downpayment on a home or to pay down student loans, but have a 5-10-15K bike - should speak volumes.

Completely out of line for a hobby.

________

Except most "bike shop guys" arent in this for a "hobby". It's more a lifestyle that can warrant the spending. This is their "industry".

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

So a guy who makes $20 per hour. With no savings. Blows $5-10K on a "Lifestyle" choice. And that is okay?

TO ME - the bike shop lifestyle basically is sitting around with a bunch of other bike rich/cash poor guys, debating Froome vs Contador and riding a bike fast enough to be "fast" but too slow to be an elite money making athlete. Isn't it really just a hobby that we are stretching into a lifestyle?

The true paradox of the whole thing is that these same lifestyle bike shop guys - pray daily that the old, fat, rich guys come into the shop and buy $3600 Zipp wheels. And then make fun of them after they buy them (on slowtwitch or to their peers), pointing out the absurdity of the purchase.

I have been reading the "Rich Guy Poser Thread" thread for years here on Slowtwitch. As a slightly fat, slightly rich, old guy - I am fighting back today! To me the ULTIMATE poser, is the guy who is over his head financially and buys this stuff bc he is "Fast" or it is a "Lifestyle".

If I want the wheels, I can buy them. Won't move my meter one bit. But I'll wait for the 808 version coming for Interbike, or next Spring, or whenever. Will they make me faster? Nope. But they will encourage me to use them at 5:30 am when my wife and kids are sleeping and that is all that really matters.

Well there is a huge difference in $5k you are talking about when describing an spending of $5k-$10k. The numbers you quoted, I can put them to a "bike guy" and spend likely 40% less on everything you listed and still be under $5k bike (not counting an pair of zipp wheels obviously).

I'm not going to say your account of how bike guys acts is wrong, and that's probaly shame on them. But I think your over inflating your numbers to prove your point.

One thing I do know. A bike guy isnt going to spend anywhere close to the price you pay for anything they get when it comes to bike related stuff. They will EP the hell out of every item they can (usually they get 1 "bike" and "wheel" EP per year, which allows them to get the items at almost cost, or cost +10%).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

To me the ULTIMATE poser, is the guy who is over his head financially and buys this stuff bc he is "Fast" or it is a "Lifestyle".

____________

While they may not be making the bank with a $20 per hour job, they also are buying product at reasonable prices for them. They will buy a $5k bike at $2800 (I got a $5k road bike for $1500 from interbike sale because i work in the industry, etc), not $5k which is what you will buy.

ETA: Another thing you'll notice. That bike guy will turn around and sell that bike in 15 months for either what he bought it for or even make money. So again, when I said it's more than a hobby, they can work the system to keep their heads afloat even when they dont make alot of money. Again, you are probaly right about their attitudes, and I'm not trying to defend that. But I will defend their spending habits because it's not simply blowing money to blow money, so to speak.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Did inflate the #'s for further noise! But this sport is absurdly expensive. Bikes (road and tri!), wheels, cycling shoes, running shoes, bibs, jerseys, helmets, oakleys, etc, etc, etc. 5K at wholesale does not buy much on an annual basis if you purchase a new bike.

But the financial principals are intact. Making 30-40K a year pre-tax with no savings - you have ZERO business blowing $2800 on this stuff. Lots of bike shop guys don't even have health insurance, yet they spend a disproportionate amount of their income on a dangerous (cycling) sport that they really can't afford. And then laugh at ME! What would the long term results of investing the $2800 be compared to consuming it on a bicycle?

If we are going to scrutinize/mock the spending habits of those who can afford things, we should do the same for the other side of the ledger. Since when did lifestyle choices become more important or at least override common sense financial principals? Just bc I want it, or it is really cool, or it fits in my lifestyle choice - it does not mean that you should buy it.

And for the record, I own 3 pairs of Zipp 808 FC wheels. The more I look at the pretty pictures of the new 404 fireSTRIKE ... The more I want them. Moth to a flame kind of stuff for the this slightly fat, rich, old guy.

Sure scrutinize/mock all you want. Just have a understanding of how they are spending money, which was my point about you inflating the numbers. They can actually make a very absurdly expensive sport into an "reasonable" affordable hobby/lifestyle/spending choice.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

And my point is that it is still not reasonable ($2K) compared to their income. It is a bicycle. But I guess it depends on your definition of "reasonable" and/or your desire to establish a financial base for the future. At the # bike shops pay, that group of guys are usually one paycheck away from their parents basement. Being a Lifestyle satisfied Wayne or Garth with a fancy bike is still foolish.

And I am the poser bc I can barely crack 24 miles in 60 minutes (depends on the wind and have to be on a really good day!) but buy stuff that would put me on par with a Kona/TDF pro?

No one stands up for the fat cat bc it is not PC. I will!

As I said I won't defend actions of you being a "fred" in their eyes (the general you, laughing at you for having $3k wheels and going 16.5 mph). That's pretty freaking silly on their part. Your spending is what keeps shops open. Your an easy sell, come in know you want top end gear and out you go. It's the reasonable shopper that wants to always bargain hunt that are destroying shops as those shops likely don't always budge from prices.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

If you are doing under an hour in a 40k, you are not the kind of person we are laughing about.

Shops make more money with employees going fast on mid range bikes. Sell the go fast parts. You have a limited number if 10,000.00 bike buyers.

I guess I am in a similar situation as mcevt... I have more disposable income than most people do. I love riding and also love the buying/selling/upgrading stuff. I rarely buy retail (who doesn't like a good deal?).. and love "meeting" new people on the buy/sell boards.

I am fast enough in the group of friends I ride with... training buddy is a Cat 3. I can hang with him as long as it's flat and windy.

People get all freaked out about people being "Freds"... why does anyone care? Do your own thing and be happy.

I see people writing all over the boards how they love to blow by the Freds on 10K bikes during a race. I kinda like blowing by 20 somethings when I'm 50. Works both ways :)

I went through 14 years of education AFTER high school to get to the point in life where I can support a family in a nice lifestyle... and buy some nice wheels when I want to...

When I was sleeping in ON CALL ROOMS like a peasant... many of my friends were already working and making decent money. There is more than one way to pay your dues.

The reason guys work at bike shops, is so that they don't have to pay 5k for a "5k" bike. Some work at bikes shops part time so they can get the employee discount. The best discount is the industry purchase...where you buy directly from the manufacturer...like Zipp...that pricing will blow your socks off.

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________________
Cervelo S2/Zipp 404

And once you've invested in the equipment, you can often flip stuff as you please without really investing any more money on getting new stuff, sometimes coming out a little ahead.



I wouldn't say so. I worked in shops for about 10 years during school and had a blast. I hung out with bike people, talked about bikes, rode bikes, worked on bikes, etc. If something occupying 80% of your time isn't considered a lifestyle, I don't know what is. People have different priorities, like I said, I had a ton of fun and did a bunch of cool things and don't regret it. I didn't (and don't) consider life to be some balance sheet that needs to necessarily be squared up at all times. The options were to live in squalor and put aside a paltry amount of money each month, but be able to do absolutely nothing, or throw caution to the wind and enjoy the benefits while I could, knowing they wouldn't be there in the future. With the money most shop people are making, you're looking at financial ruin with or without saving what meager amount of money you can. Like telling someone with full sleeve tattoos that they made a poor personal choice because it will affect their ability to get a job, we knew it wasn't sound financial planning, we just didn't care.

Sure, because maybe he didn't spend any money on a car, or spend money on a huge mcmansion like the rich asshole lecturing him about buying a nice bike?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Exactly what I was going to say. Lots of these guys ride to work. 2800 dollars for a reliable mode of transportation AND weekend opportunities to grab some cash THEN flip the bike for a 800 dollar profit is how it works.

I don't see a 3k purchase when making 37k is such a huge stretch. It's not like most of these guys are living in houses. Typically renting with roommates, so living expenses are very low.

This is their lifestyle. It isn't fun and games for many. They actually race on the weekends. That's how they make a living

I find it humorous that we can post a 1000 times about rich, old posers and their silly fetish for $3600 wheels. But when a rich, old poser pushes back with sound financial logic (probably what made him rich to begin with?) .... then we resort to name calling.
People can spend on whatever they would like. I am glad that skilled, smart guys choose to work in bike shops despite the limited financial rewards. I just wonder if the Breaking Away lifestyle (equipped with fancy bike in tow) that the shop provides is really that much better than... The slow, rich guy? Both are kind of pretending. Dare I say posing?

McMansion? Really? That is so Texas.

No, what makes most people rich in the first place is the ability to connect with and engage people. Unfortunately, that's a quality that's not selected for on an anonymous internet forum.

Sound financial logic would dictate you stop spending time on leisure and spend more time on making money, and certainly not posting about being the "slightly fat, rich, old guy". The reality is that the young, in shape, rich guy who understands how to spend his time (training and otherwise) is going to drop you all.

I am confused.

Does this mean that you do not find this post engaging?

But you responded?

Maybe I am engaging with you in a Donald Trump obnoxious way? I guess I have hope within your formula.

My thesis is not that leisure is bad. Not that working at a bike shop is bad. Not that spending on bikes is bad. But rather - making fun of someone for purchasing expensive gear that is not parallel to their personal skills is no more or no less silly than spending a considerable amount of your income on a bicycle. This group overwhelmingly seems to think stretching financially for a bike is okay and enjoys mocking the guy with the financial ability to buy cool gear. I am a very passive reader/user of ST but as a Washingtonian, I see the political demonization of the wealthy as something that has become a commonplace political practice and it disgusts me. You could argue that our President (who I supported) won 2 elections using this strategy as one of his centerpieces. So I am having a little fun with this.

Lol. I always joke you can tell when I am full training since my number of posts goes down. Today I am braking the rule, coffee is going down slow today.

I am not that fat or slow, but I do enjoy the comments I get when people catch up at stop lights and state that "that P5 must be fast" obviously since I am so old I can't pedal. I either reply, "yes if it wasn't for this bike I couldn't pedal at all." Or "not really that fast , it looks cool, and it's roughly 1.5-2 minutes faster over 112 miles than my old bike, not really any faster on this route.", "so why did you buy it". "Because I can" "I had a tough time telling my wife, I am spending that much because it looks cool". It is a bit stiffer than my P3 though.

But I race it, to me the posers are on $15k pinarellos acting like they are in the tour cutting blind corners on a bike/run path while I am trying to run. Those guys deserve the criticism for being dangerously stupid.

I'm rich myself (in the context of being able to spend $5k of a bike, it is all relative) so I feel comfortable pointing out that many rich people who would make fun of a guy for spending big money on a bike have $300k in home loan debt, $80k in BMW debt, and are actually more financially unsound than the barista with the colnago.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Agreed 100% with this. I drive a 2001 Honda Accord with 200,000 miles because it runs perfectly fine. I'd rather buy another Honda than waste money on a BMW or massive house. I've often heard the key to being rich is to live modest. A $5000 bike doesn't move the meter that much in the bigger picture of what you could spend money on.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

You make some good points, mcevt. It has brought to mind two things.

I was working a corner as a volunteer at a bike race a couple of years ago. For the womens 1/2 race a girl in her early to mid 20's goes down, over her bars, straight in with her face. Face was jacked up, missing some teeth, just totally f'd up. I run over there and get her bike off the course, and try to keep her still, but she is standing up. She sits down and leans on me and is shaking a bit with pain and is a dazed. The first thing out of her mouth is 'please don't call an ambulance, I don't have insurance'. And I basically said, 'honey, there isn't a damn thing any of us can do for you here. You have to go to the hospital'. She goes to the hospital. I help her friend collect her bike. You know where this is going...brand new tarmac (actually, Amira) with dura ace. Like mcevt, many of us can cut a check for any bike with any components, and not even think about an acct balance. I ride a cheap cannondale supersix (bought a season late with dust on it), with rival. However, I definitely can take that ride in the ambulance when my luck finally runs out.

The other thing that always breaks my heart is when I hear of the guys getting killed. Every year or two you hear of some great guy with two kids and a wife, really active in the racing community, strong guy, always helps out the noobs, works some job he has passion for (bike shop, advocacy, whatever), not rich, but rich in experience, and he gets run over. Then there is a fundraiser for his family. It's called 'life insurance' you idiots. 'Rich in experiences', still usually costs SOME money. Maybe Mr. Cool-Guy did an ironman ($500 race), maybe he did RAAM one time (god only knows $ with support), maybe he took a month off work to bicycle tour South America a couple years ago. If you have a wife and kids, pay the $50 a month, because when you don't, you're not Mr. Cool-Guy, you're a fucking failure as a husband and father.

People are going to pile on mcevt with the 'who are you to tell them/me what to do with their/my money'. Others will give you the old 'judge not, lest ye be judged'. Maybe these folks need to realize that honest feedback like this might not have ever been shared with these individuals, especially if they're younger.

I'd also point out that employee deals (my brother-in-law works at a bike shop), are usually 50%, like other posters mention. They can usually sell after a year or a year and a half, and get it all back or make a couple hundred on it. HOWEVER... if that bike is destroyed in a crash, which is not all unlikely, they're still out a couple thousand. So if you make $35k/yr, $2.5k is still A LOT of money to have at risk. Lifestyle or not. It's still a poor decision.

Or you could get some Mavic CXR 80's for $2800 a pair... bargain.

Thank you.

Why 3?

Or you could just insure your bike with Velosurance like I did. http://www.velosurance.com $8500 coverage for around 46 a month. No worries now about bike being stolen or crashing. I have a $500 deductible. Now I only have to pay the money once for the bike and wheels and hopefully never crash them. If I do, I'm covered. Sounds pretty financially responsible to me

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I own 3 TT bikes. Stored in various locations during the summer. All have 808's.

No, it's not "cool" gear; it's gear with incredibly low marginal utility. I have the means to buy Zipps but it doesn't mean I will or should. A perfect example buying Zipp FC wheels for dimples for when they're covered with Zipp decals, and for the weight when anyone with access to an internet browser can determine that weight has a very marginal effect on performance.

Whether bike store employees are idiots are buying bikes with low wealth and disposable income is a distinct issue, but "rich" people are most certainly idiots for buying very low marginal utility items. Succinctly, just because a person has money doesn't mean they should spend it.

To be fair, you should really buy easily secured assets on credit. Why would you pass on ~0% dealer financing on car? Similarly, it's sound financially to lever up real estate property to increase your capital returns. What do you think REITs and RE private firms do?

That said, do people need that 7-series BMW or assess the growth potential of their home purchase? Probably not.

Let me explain the reasons that I buy expensive bike stuff:

1) I can.

2) When it is 5 am and I want to sleep in, I feel compelled not to waste the $ that I have spent so I get on the road. Like spending on a gym membership does for many. New stuff encourages me to use it.

3) When I am on the road with all of my fancy stuff, people (probably secretly complaining about my spending!) try to pass me or avoid being passed. My frail ego and competitive spirit then kick in. Having cool toys forces you to work harder bc it forces others around you to be more aggressive with you. I know it sounds crazy but it is true. EVERY bike shop guy wants to pass me. Some can. Some can't. Note: Most bike shop guys can't stand tri guys so a tri guy with a fancy bike is like a double Satan.

4) I am a sucker for cool stuff. I appreciate good design across a large spectrum of interests.

5) I am 45. My body is in decay. That is just a fact of biology. I am fighting the decay as hard as I can. Every summer I ride a 24 mile, no traffic light loop at the completely flat Coastal Highway of the Delaware-Maryland shore. If I can crank it above 24 mph as an average for the loop - I feel like I have put off decay by a bit. If fancy toys help me cheat a bit then so be it. If fancy toys serve as a placebo - then so be it.

6) It does not interfere with any of my family's short or long term financial interests. My wife and kids are and will be fine.

Is this sensible to you? Probably not.

No.

1. Bums can shit on the street. Should they?

2. Gym memberships don't encourage people to work out. It makes people feel better. I'm glad you're big on feelings.

3. Hint: your bike has very little to do with your ability to pass or get passed. Go lift, bro, for the anaerobic/phosphagen power to pass people. I seriously doubt you can tell who's a "bike shop guy" on the road. Sounds like delusional bs to me.

4. That's what my gf tells me about buying dresses.

5. Both road races and triathlons have age categories. Take your midlife crisis elsewhere. If you actually wanted a performance indicator, you'd ride a uphill, low speed route or you'd quote your power output. Your lack of critical thinking is most likely why you're buying Zipp wheels in the first place.

6. Again, having money is not a sufficient condition for spending money. I can spend money on women's clothing. Does that mean I should?

I've observed this to be true.

How about:

7) If I, and all of my kind, keep all of our money the US economy will collapse. Consumption is vital to the success of our country.

8) If I don't waste my money, I would get even wealthier and then really piss you off.

Is it okay for me to buy $3600 Zipp wheels now?

Define rich.

Define modest.

The truth is that it is all about the ratio of money spent vs what you have - and not the end #'s. Depending on what you earn/have, driving a fancy car(s) and living in a luxury home(s) may in fact be living modestly compared to what you have.

Ask a real estate agent in a major heated market (NY, SF, LA, DC, Boston) and they will tell you that the vast majority of buyers in the 2-3 million and up bracket are CASH buyers. If they are paying cash, I would assume they can afford it.

Plenty of financial posers out there, but when you get to certain brackets - the bank is simply not going to give you the $. You have to have the $. Can you buy a 500K condo and lease a fancy car? Sure. But that is really the end of the line for most posers. It is very true that some max out every dime they have into lifestyle choices. This of course leads to bad outcomes... like bike shop guys with overly expensive bikes. And $3600 Zipp wheels.

Only when you admit it's because of your penis envy.

7. No. Production of labor and resources is vital to the success of our country.

8. Doubtful. That assumes your non-capital gains income is more than mine, and that you invest your money better than me. Given your total lack of financial sense, the latter is highly improbable. You might have lucked out into the former though.

Smart rich people don't pay cash for real estate. They may buy real estate noncontingent on mortgage approval but no one with a basic understanding of finance would buy cash.

Banks make money based on lending, they will lend if they think they can get paid back, which is predicated as much on future income as it is on wealth. You can pose a long way further than condo and fancy car.

Cool wheels. Never paid retail for a pair of zipps in my life. Maybe I will pick up a pair in the future, but sounds like I should call the Suze Orman show first....

Who am I supposed to envy?

The Zipp guy who makes the wheel and takes all of my money leaving me penniless or at the very least below you?

The guy who rides faster than me without the $3600 wheels?

Someone who is richer than me and we are in a quasi arms race for Zipp products? And he too, may ride faster than me. Richer and faster would be the daily double of envy. Maybe he has a prettier wife and smarter kids? (I may have to buy 2 wheelsets if that is all true.)

I am so confused. Who am I supposed to envy? I just want to buy the wheels.

I didn't see a single reference to phalluses or Freud, so I'm not sure what you're even replying to.

If you have or when you do buy a 3 million dollar + piece of real estate (particularly when you have multiple residences and it is not your primary) - you can be the outlier and try to work with the bank on that loan package.

You're both wrong because you're both right. Those two ideas are inclusive not exclusive. Without consumption production is irrelevant. Without production consumption is irrelevant. It used to be that the former was more difficult to drive. Now it's the latter. A flaw in our monetary system has led to chronic aggregate demand shortfalls.

Bet the Zipp marketing people didn't anticipate this conversation.

> just because a person has money doesn't mean they should spend it.

Is all discretionary spending foolish?

Or just discretionary spending on Zipps?

That's only true when the form of financing doesn't affect the availability of the property. It many hot markets, borrowing is not an option because (i) there are multiple bidders for every property, (ii) sellers give priority to all-cash buyers, and therefore (iii) if you are not willing to pay cash you cannot buy.

My family does. Get a better mortgage broker, put more equity in the house, or offer more collateral. Why would you let your money just sit there at the bottom of the capstack?

"noncontingent on mortgage approval"

one thing the "rich" guys fail to realize is that maybe they were afforded better opportunity from their parents, inheritance, etc... then the bike shop guy was. Maybe "rich guy" doesnt understand whats its like to have true passion about something other then money.

Maybe "rich guy" should worry about his own spending and not others??

As for me, It doesnt really matter. I don't need to boost my ego by telling everyone how well off I am. What I will say that I worked in the surf industry nfor many years before my own business took off and you cant put a price on passion and true love for a lifestyle.

It may be a hobby to some, but its a lifestyle to others kinda like counting cash is to others.

you want zipps then buy them, me Ill buy flo's because it makes the most fiscal sense and my ego is fine where it is

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Yellowfin Endurance Coaching and Bike Fits
USAT Level 1, USAC Level 3

I'm not sure how aero the $2500 I'd have left over would be flapping in the wind.

$3600 is insane. Zipp don't seem to have looked around and seen what their competitors are doing.

Ken

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Nailed it!

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"the trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight." - Slowman

Zipp did drop their prices and offer a "reasonable" wheel in the zipp 30/60(old 404) for what ~half of what the firecrest is right?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Too bad your original post turned into a financial responsibility clinic.

Some can, some can't, so what?

Ride what you want.

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Formerly DrD

Ha. That's the way Slowtwitch works. I have no issue spending $3600 on bike stuff. My preference would just be for a CX bike rather than new wheels. But I already have Flos and the incremental gains from replacing race wheels is just really hard to sell to the wife.

I do agree that even though the prices are astronomical for bicycle parts, cycling is still a cheap hobby compared to boating, golf, travel, SCUBA, skiing, etc. The cost per use for cycling is significantly lower than just about anything I can think of other than running. Shit, there's even a $5 drop in fee to use my local pool!

Between my wife and me, there's probably $20k worth of bikes in our garage. Is it any better that it's spread across 9 bikes for the two of us? Are we less of Fred's because we don't each have a Di2 P5 w/ Zipps? Who knows. Who cares. I like bikes and would rather have a bunch - Road, Tri, CX, Mtb, Commuter than one SUPER fancy one.

FWIW I often transport my bike in a car worth significantly less than the bike - either a 1990 Vanagon (purchased for $2 from a friend) or a 1991 Jeep ($2k from a family member).

But if some Zipp Firestrikes would improve my quality of life, I would probably buy some.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

I hear ya. 8 bikes in our family. Gave up golf and the motorcycle years ago.

FLO 60/90 here. Between the wheels and my TitanFlex I was answering a lot of questions last week at the century ride I rode.

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Formerly DrD

As a SCUBA diver...I actually disagree with you. Once you buy regulators, tanks, and a bouyancy compensator, you really don't have to upgrade for many years. Regular servicing of your regs is about all you will spend. You don't really buy new fins, masks, or booties unless they break. SCUBA is MUCH cheaper than triathlon

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Depends on where you like to dive (guess it depends where you like to race too). Maldives, Great Barrier Reef. Thailand. Those flights make WTC entry fees seem cheap!

But I suppose you are right that the serviceable life of the equipment is longer. Makes sense to not cheap out on a sport where the primary objective is not to die. Not a lot of Chinese Aero Carbon Regulators?

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Guys guys guys...can everyone please stop comparing Zipp against Flo. The fact that both companies sell carbon wheels, doesn't mean they are the same. The same reason why you wouldn't (and shouldn't) compare Walmart running shoes against your Newton's, is the same reason why you don't compare Zipp against Flo. Some people can't afford Newton's so they buy Walmart shoes. Some people can't afford Zipp's so they buy Flo's.

You can compare Zipp to Enve, Mavic, Lightweight and so on. Companies that have credentials and have revolutionized the industry before. Companies that really put the time and effort in research and development because at the end of the day that's why you pay a premium. And for the people unaware out there, all the companies mentioned before sell wheels for over 3k. So Zipp is not breaking new grounds here.

And the fact that you can or can't afford expensive wheels, doesn't mean you should be in the front or the back of the pack. I buy wheels for the experience. I've ridden many different brands and whatever gives me the best experience when I ride in the conditions I ride, that's what I'm going to go after. Zipp happens to deliver that.

Nope


Of course they are not the same. If they were the same, comparing them would be a pointless activity.


why wouldn't I do that?



Some people want a metal brake track so they buy Flo's. Some people may fit the Walmart shoe better.


Flo - revolutionized the industry - check
Flo - put time and effort into research and development - check

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Wow! Your comment had no purpose what so ever.

"Flo - revolutionized the industry - check"

Really? What was their revolution? For all I know their wheels have nothing unique.

Let me brake it down to you: Carbon rims, solid discs, dimples, wider profiles, carbon brake tracks, improve braking performance in carbon clinchers, etc..

Now that is revolution!

Oh wait...you can get Flo decals in every color available in the color spectrum. That is a breaking news right there!!!

You must be a special kind of moron. Flo did revolutionize the industry because they brought race wheels to many people who may never have been able to buy them. They designed their own shape, went to the wind tunnel, and grew their company from the ground up. If you would have spent more than 5 minutes on their website, you could have understood this. Instead, Jackmott, myself, and many others will have to come on here and educate you.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Top notch aerodynamics for a vastly lower price than has ever been available before.

In fact their wheels offer better performance than some of the brands you mentioned.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

I wonder if they'll ever get UCI certified. That's one drawback I have to look for in wheels with ITU draft legal stuff following UCI wheel rules. Of course that is 1% of the races, but that's the one drawback to any wheel for me (includes the zipp 60 and zipp 30 as well).

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Quote:

You can compare Zipp to Enve, Mavic, Lightweight and so on

You should be able to compare any wheelset again the Zipps even Flo or any Chinese aero wheelsets. They all perform a specific goal in improving aerodynamics so they are all put on the same page for comparison.

Really?!!!

Well there must be two morons here because Flo was not the first company to sell cheap carbon wheels. Many others were doing that for years before Flo. So guess what moron, that is not a revolution. They just offer more color options and that's why people like yourself go to them to buy wheels, so you can match your pink and yellow bike with pink and yellow wheels and look like a power ranger.

Well, I think that settles the issue right there......


There are any number of ways to be innovative. It doesn't always have to be ground-breaking product.

The fact remains that Flo developed an innovative business model that delivers top-notch aerodynamics at a fraction of the price previously available. You can say what you want about their wheels, but that does qualify as "innovation."

You can argue that their wheels are largely that of a "fast follower" from a design perspective (and I wouldn't necessarily disagree). But being a "fast follower" is often a great (and even preferable) market strategy.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Actually...I haven't bought a set of them. I have a 2011 black/red/white Cervelo P2. My race kit is black/red/white and I definitely don't look like a power ranger. I called you a moron because you were spouting off typical fanboyism's without doing your research. They are offering a shape similar to FireCrest, wide rims, and a great value. Industry revolutions don't necessarily have to be new technology. Sounds like you need a dinner date with your Zipps. Dress nice, take them out to a nice dinner, and make sure you caress that fine carbon and get it in the mood for some riding. I hear if you whisper nice things to it, the wheels might go real fast

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Why argue with this guy?

Here's his deal. He buys top of the line Zipps. Top dollar means top wheel.

Don't try to tell him about FLO. FLO is relatively inexpensive so it must be shit.

Don't compare the two. Zipp is expensive so it's better. That's the bottom line because Jalp said so.

ETA: FLOs don't have dimples, so they suck.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

In a niche market like the aero wheel market, a "fast follower" can quickly become a world leader in said niche market.

The company that I work for used to be a "fast follower" 25 years ago and after about 5 years we became the world leader in our market and have been able to stay there for 20 years.

Flo just needs to keep focusing on the future and not sit back and be complacent on what they have done so far.

Here's the deal for all of you that are talking without having the ability to read. I say I ride wheels because of the experience I get. If my experience is better with whatever brand, so be it.

Oh...I forgot to mention that I'm sponsored by my LBS so I don't pay for anything. That includes wheels in any brand I want as long as they carry it. Guess what brand I choose to ride for free? Yep, you got it wrong because neither Zipp nor Flo is the one I ride.

So they don't carry Zipps eh? Bummer.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Troll harder bro.

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__________________________

I tweet!

you must be a joy at parties.

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Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Not as cheap as Flo, and until recently (post Flo) all of them had vastly worse aerodynamics.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Interesting, then it is possible you are on slower wheels than Flos.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Jack,

He rides everything his LBS sells so he's tried the FLOs (ahem) and they are clearly shitty wheels.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Parties?!! Heck yeah!

My experience is better than your experience therefore your experience must not be trustworthy. See where we can go with this?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

These should just be called the Zipp WalletStrike 404. Can't justify paying as much for a regular set of wheels as I did for my Super 9/404

I can't justify paying as much for a whole bike as you did for your Super 9!

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

I'm not rich, but I know some very well off people who do tri.

None of them buy stuff to show off their wealth. The ones that do buy expensive stuff, buy it for one of several reasons.

1. They are passionate about X and want the best, and can afford it.
2. the cost that appears expensive for us plebes is inconsequential to them.

I make X each year. Y% goes to my house, and Z% goes on triathlon each year.

A good friend of mine makes over 10 times what I make. He feels poor because he hangs out with some seriously rich friends. I take my 10 year old car to the race track for race days (but drive carefully because I have to make it home!). He drives a Porsche and has a well used race car. One of his buddies just bought an international car racing team!

We all spend about the same % of our annual income on cars. My friends friend isn't showing off, he likes cars and has the money available, so spends what I consider to be a crap ton of money on his race team.

In tri there are people like me that are totally addicted to tri, but still agonize and save up for some FLO's. Similarly, there are some who would have their PA get them a pair of the new Zipps, because they are actually, or are perceived to be the best.

Both poor people and rich people buy whatever speed they can on the bike. Most people don't buy it to show off or don't even buy it to win, but to be the fastest they can be, within the financial limits they have.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Wheels? Hell for 3600 bucks I could get a complete short block 347 stroker and custom cam for that.

Totally agree bike industry is out of touch for the US market.

HOWEVER, I'm currently in Singapore where there are people with a lot of cash. It's very, very, common to see guys riding around on full Zipp race wheels for their everyday bike, even the guys doing a once per week 40km leisure ride have them. Makes passing them all the more satisfying.

Seeing that $3600 price tag makes me love my bargain basement Mavic Carbone SL's even more. I'll use the savings to buy more Gatorade and train more :)

Nice seeing another Mustang guy here :)

Well said...

Nope, there are tons of guys who ride with top flight gear for vanity. I ride with a bunch of them......

What do you mean... "for vanity"? You mean to show off their wealth?

I'm extremely happy in my life. I don't really harbour any jealousy of people or stuff. I don't want any fancy wheels, but I would like a race car at some point. My friend with the race car has told me about the $2K cup. Bring any car under $2k. Good fun and within my budget.....possibly. Gotta be more fun that getting the latest Zipp front wheel and leaving my FLO's at home :-)

I WILL however, go to the track to watch my friends buddies race team. That should be wicked good fun.

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Like most people, I base my opinions on my own experiences in life. I come across very few posers. In fact, I can't think of any off the top of my head. Therefore, I get a possibly distorted view of the world, and erroneously think they are a tiny minority. Apparently there are a lot of posers, and all the posers ride with YOU! Sucks to be you. LOL

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TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

I ride with guys who bought the wheels for both vanity (ie, "they look cool") and not to show off their wealth in the way you are thinking.

They buy them because they don't want to be the guy that appears he can't afford them.

Mind you that I'm in Singapore and ride with a lot of forgein expats from all over the world (US, Aust. , NZ, Germany, France) and many of them are high earners in finance. Zipp is more than the US market....

My neighbor at my condo has a full tilt Shiv with Zipp wheels. He's be lucky to avg 15 MPH on a ride but in Asia there is a huge status culture. HUGE.

Should add, I'm the US "white guy" in the group. lol

We are definitely focusing on the future. We are in a development year so things appear slow, but there's lots going on behind the scenes.

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

I am sure you are as most companies are always in a "development year" lol. I think people that call you a fast follower always think you will be behind the others. I have seen personally what a "fast follower" can become in the 15 years with my company.

I think people have to sit back and see that you have only been in the game a very short time compared to the others and you are doing things differently. I think they need to watch what happens in the next couple of years and then see if they feel the same.

Good luck in the future as I know I will be riding some Flo wheels at some point.

Haha! That is true... every year is a development year! Thanks for the kind words.

Take care,

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Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling

So did you buy a set of these firestrikes yet ?
Have not seen them on the road yet or heard any feedback.
Are they truly sublime ?

Nope. If you send me a set, I would be happy to let know know how they ride. But my guess is they are round, just like most of the other wheels I ride.

I'm thinking about going back to tubulars. Used ones are CHEAP. Barely used 303s and 404s for close to $1000. That's a steal.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

meh... you started the thread, can't get closure on it until you report back