Tribriyguy, as a sub 70 400m, I think you better put don 800 miles over 100 days or check yourself into poserville for the rest of the year :-) :-) :-).

Come on, you can get that telephone pole look alike alternatively known as Triyoda???

I was online this afternoon looking at real estate in your town, zipp. Now if I could just figure out how to earn a living there I'd be there tomorrow. I am about to throw myself in the neighborhood lake because of the hellish weather here. Your trail running talk has given me serious urgings to get back to the red rocks and the vortexes :-)

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Just remember, there are no jobs here unless you are in the tourism business. We were just talking at the Sunday night poker game about the lack of jobs here. It is very expensive to live here because everything is tourist based and and limited by the size of the town due to being 100% surrounded by National Forest.

My wife and I talk all the time about the day we retire and no longer need to live in an expensive tourist town!! I think Tucson is looking really good!!

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Paul

11 mi easy in 93:54 - treadmill at a 2% incline.

I was pretty close to TriYoda all of last week in distance/time (and pace ;-) but he pulled ahead of me yesterday with his long run.

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maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

<RANT MODE ON>

If you are close to triyoda times in distance run and pace you better be close to him in racing.

Can you put down a 33.30 10K or a 2:4x marathon?

If the answer is NO, then you should consider slowing down and going shorter and slower. Triyoda knows what he is doing, and based on your race results, I'm think that the pie you are chewing on is bigger than your stomach can digest....I could be wrong, but post your 10K times or your triathlon run splits and we'll let the smart running guys on this challenge dissect ya.

Seriously sorry that you are the target for today's rant, but if you are chasing triyoda, there is a high likelihood that you are chasing the wrong "competitor"!!!

<RANT MODE OFF>

Dev

After swimming this morning, did a nice easy treadmill interval set: 31:18 / 3.5 Mile @ 1% Incline.

<Confused Post Of The Day>

Ok so been thinking about this for the last few days as I observe the relative wavelike motion of the ranking fluctuating from day to day. It seems from my simple minded observations that we have three camps of people participating in this challenge. I am curious as to what people think of it:

Camp 1: Runs ~30 mins a go / = to or > the Challenge Frequency. Generally speaking looks like in the 8-9 Min/Mile Pace if you look at the whole challenge average, not just say a single event as many of them , I guess I should say "us" as I consider myself in this group, run in the low ~7 pace frequently. It looks like we are hedging our bets to hit the 100/100 and most of us do doubles very often.

Camp 2: Runs ~1:00:00 a go / slightly less than Challenge Frequency often after a faster Pace average ~7 if you look at the whole challenge. I don't see a ton of doubles, but the consistency of the longer miles is easily identifiable by looking at distance / freq.

Camp 3: Well, I equate this to Camp 4 in Yosemite :P Aka they are just out there having a good time and running when they can, using the Challenge as a motivator but not really letting it or the rankings dictate their freq, pace, time.

For the sake of brevity I will focus on 1 & 2. Given that this is a "Winter-based" challenge aka the off season, and that repeatedly throughout the ramp up, the mantra was "consistency" over Quality, I am curious as to what Camp 2 is thinking? I am just starting to move into my 1st bit of longer'ish runs (~1:00:00) but these will be limited to 1 a week for starters. I thought that even this early it would be fairly aggressive from a race schedule perspective, but I am seeing plenty of other "result proven" individuals that have started on this much earlier forgoing the Freq ramp up and heading straight to the Quality Over Distance model.

I would be a little less confused in the longer distances were coupled with a slower average pace aka the low HR / Volume to the off-season, but come on 7 Min/Mile averages on runs often well over 1:00:00 on a consistent basis could hardly be construed as low HR easy runs. I don't know, or maybe they are and there are a lot more super fit people on this board than I thought.

Anyways, any insight from Camp 2'ers appreciated!

You neglected to mention Camp 5. Runs 9000 km at 1 second per mile pace! :-)

I will speak for the "Camp 2" group. I would say in general we are out training doing a relatively "real" runner program, consisting of a bit of everything...long runs, hillwork, tempo, even intervals, and then some filler stuff to bump up mileage....and don't assume that 7:00 or 7:30 pace per mile is easy or hard for anyone...for some it is easy, others it might be not so easy, or it might vary from day to day.

Those constantly doing double minimum distance runs in camp 1 are losing what the real purpose of the challenge is all about. Which is to put down a running base... and elevate overall run fitness. 40 runs of 30 minutes in 28 days tells me that the same person could do 14 runs of 60 minutes and 14 runs of 30 minutes and achieve far more run and race specificity by going beyond the bare 30 minute minimum. Two 30 minute runs does not give the same fitness benefit as a single 60 minute run...Scot spoke of this earlier in the challenge.

The 30 minute minimum run is there to augment run mileage not as the "core workout" that your entire program hinges around. For those getting started up, sure, it can be "the core workout", but if you are doing 40 runs of 30 minutes minimum in 28 days, then you're missing out on fitness gains.

I'll tell you this...when you look at the results sheet at racing this summer the guys in "camp 2" will be a few pages of results up on the camp 1 "run 30 minute every time" group....that I can guarantee.

Dev

By the way, quality and consistency ARE not mutually exclusive...consistent quality will trump consistent mediocrity in all forms of life...granted, you can't strive for quality in every outing however there is a balance based on the your stock portfolio....you want some high return high risk stuff with a base of stable investments....

....put it this way...every stock and every workout has a purpose towards the larger goal of raising the overall valuation of the portfolio (be is $$$ or race day speed).

I am in camp 2 and pretty well fit your description. This past summer raced sprint tris and dus mostly with a handful of 10ks, 5ks, 5 milers and assorted other road races. Typically during tri training season I was getting in 30-35 mpw on 4 runs per week so now that I am doing 6-7 runs per week, getting in ~45 mpw isn't that much of an increase.

Plus, I spent the last part of the summer and the fall building up my running mileage gradually and it corresponded nicely to the start of the challenge. I have pretty much got it to the point where I could run 60 minutes easy (~7:30) everyday if I wanted to, where about 3 months ago it would have probably been about ~45 minutes that was my standard "just get out the door" run. But as you said, I do mix it up a bit, no intervals, but a weekly long run, some hills and usually a weekly tempo session. Usually about once a week I am doing something right around 30 minutes that I wouldn't have done otherwise so as to get a day's credit for the challenge.

Did an easy run yesterday across the National Mall in DC during the rehearsal for the Inaguaration parade. It was interesting, Porta-Potties and concrete barriers everywhere, all the roads closed and lots of police cars and black suburbans flying around. It was neat in that I could run right down the middle of the road as streets were closed to traffic. Coming back towards the Capitol there was a motorcade a little bit ahead of me on Jefferson Ave. and I imagined I was leading a big city marathon following the police escort into the finish :-) I need to borrow my girlfriend's digital camera and get some pics.

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Portside Athletics Blog

Dev has asked me to weigh in with my thoughts here. Not sure exactly what's been going on, but after skimming through some of the thread I am getting a sense of it.

1. People need to keep in mind what the purpose of the 100/100 is - it's a loose goal to develop a consistant running program.

2. Main outcome: Better run performance. Many under-perform on the run in triathlons of all lengths. And looking at the training of many people, one of the main reasons( not the only one) is inconsistant run training.

3. Like many things related to triathlon there are those who have made this far more complicated than it needs be. What's the goal? Run everyday for 100 days! It's pretty straightforward. It does not need to get much more detailed than that.

4. What are the rules? I didn't know their had to be "rules" but generally speaking it's not a bad idea to set a minimum time that you will count as a "run". I say 20 - 30 minutes should suffice. The other "rule" would be - don't run so hard/long one day that you will not be able to run the next day. That's it. That's about all you need to know.

5. Running faster: There seems to be this mistaken paranoia that if you run faster you will some how wreck this running fitness house of cards that you are building. That it will all be ruined. Or that I will end up injured and crippled. Running a bit faster on one or two of those runs each week is OK - enjoy it. Have fun with it. Don't feel guilty.

6. If I start to get aches and pains beyond normal, what should I do? Do the common sense thing - stop running every day and get the injury looked at. One of the goals and the outcomes of this sort of program is building up durability, but it's not for everyone. Some/many will emerge fitter and more durable. For others, again it's not the right approach for them.

7. Double runs(two runs/day)? In the context of what triathletes do, my personal feeling is that they are not necessery - you have two other sports to do in that second workout of the day. For single sport runners - they may be. Keep in mind there are world class runners who still only run once a day.

8. Taking a day off? Yes it's OK - for whatever reason. I have always thought that one of the coolest things about triathlon is that we have three sports to work with - if you can't swim you can run. If you can't run you can swim. If you can' bike . . . and so on. It's flexible. You have options. Why is it that so many people need to become a slave to a program? If it's glare ice outside and -100. Forget the run and hit the indoor bike trainer for an hour and move on!

As always - your milage may vary! :)

Hope this helps.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

After getting this far into the challenge without injury, planning to pack up my tent and move from the middle of Camp 1 to somewhere closer to Camp 2. Anything to break up the monotony of playing the first few weeks so conservatively.

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Over 4.5 years bike crash free.

Xray,

Sounds like you and I are very much on the same "plan" as that is exactly how I am moving forward into next week aka at least 1 run in the 1:00:00+ range targeting a faster pace than I normally would for my long runs (from 08:00 Pace to targeting 07:30 pace).

Maybe that is the key here that I didn't really factor in, I bet most 100/100 Challenge NOobs (like myself) who this is their 1st time doing something like 100/100 saw the double x minimum strategy a good way to ward off injury. I can say it has worked for me, as I feel like my body handled the doubles very well and I can move forward with less doubles, more single day sessions of longer distances for a greater mpw without being as concerned about injury now that I have the last 4 weeks of > 100/100 frequency under the belt.

Dev, I hear what you are saying about the result page, but I also wouldn't overstate the case against the Double crowd. Running fast once in the morning, and then recovery running in the evening (or vice versa) in my experience is also a very good way to approach overall fitness. I agree with statement that Quality always will trump Quantity in the long haul for specificty, but specificity in Dec/Jan seems like a recipe for burn out. There is a reason why coaches do "2-a-days" at both the HS and Pro level in football. It is a great way to get out of the off season mode and into the "training" mode.

I have enjoyed my mindless "do my 30 hard / do my 30 easy" daily doubles for the 1st few weeks and as a whole I would say it has benefitted me most from a motivational perspective aka even when it was hard to get out the door on the double, I made myself do it. I think the discipline required to doubles will translate to discipline over the longer single run strategy as well. I know I will always be thinking, "Well at least I don't have to double today!" :) I personally found that it was harder for me to run a second time then to extend my mileage on a single run, but maybe that is just me.

Though I am not as fast as you guys . I was trying to stay under 8 min miles for the beggining @ 30 minutes to 35 minutes. I am down to 4.25 miles in 30 minutes from this training. Think that is good for me. Around a 7 min 5 sec mile. Hoping this strategy works getting my OLY distance Tri run into the 42 minute range. I have been doing the bike challenge and running 30 sec to 3 minutes everyday after jumping off bike. Just started to rev up mileage again running on saturday. 9 miles in 1:15 . I do not want to peak in Febuary but want to have body ready for upcoming season. Thats what I thought challenge was for: improvement , keep weight down and not lose fitness. Not to burn out. At least they are my goals and hopes from challenge.I have my first Half IM coming up and I want to be healthy for it. Just keeping the run - bike challenge going during holidays and regular life is hard. Everybody stay healthy out there long way to go to the start of the tri season !

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Official Polar Ambassador
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First let me say that over the last 18 years of training I've never run more then 2-3 days each week and thats probably only happened a few times prior to the IM. I can go 3-4 months and never run, except in a race.

So I'm in this 100/100 thingy to start a consistant run program. One that will allow me to be durable enough to run 3-4 times each week during season without being sore the next day, which always prevented me from running again : ) Remember, I have bad hips and knees and a 1" leg length difference. Running hurts!! Most of my racing is sprint and Oly distance. I want to build the durable runner and then add speed sometime later this month. I'm in camp one right now. 30 minutes each day, done. Maybe twice to catch up, as it keeps me motivated to be able to approach the 100/100.

I've lost 9 lbs and I'm faster and able to run almost pain free at this point. Yesterday I was dumb enough to run twice with the second one up Doe Mountain. 1 mile in length but UP 400-500ft. It was close to climbing but I ran the whole thing and then some to make the 30 minutes. Today is a 2 hour bike then a run later this evening.

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Paul

One other thing to be said for running shorter-length doubles: I've found it to be a valuable teaching tool for time management. I'm not generally very organized in this department, but have been pleasantly surprised to discover how easy it is to squeeze another short workout into the day.

Anyway, I'm glad to have banked a few extra runs early when the weather was nice. Not having ready access to a treadmill, it's entirely likely that poor road conditions will at some point ground me for a few days. I've already developed some pretty decent snowplow-dodging skills, but I don't think we've seen the worst that this winter has to offer just yet.

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Over 4.5 years bike crash free.

Let's be clear....the statement about running only 30 min runs is not applicable to people running ~ 3hours per week...for them, this is fine, in fact is is excellent. It is targeted at people running 6-8 hours per week. When you are running that volume you can easily do a few hour long runs.

I agree and am triing to amp up run times along with the bike. I say on a different subject we rename zipp ILEAN

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right now I am at 2 -hourish runs a week, plus a bunch of 30 -40 minute doubles. I am hoping to amp that to morning hour to 1.5, and evening to 35-45 by the end of the challenge.
Luckily havent had to miss a day yet, but I start traveling next week. Looks like treadmill time.

Smart a**........ : )

I'll have to consider that one when the new bike arrives. I'll no longer be riding a Zipp except a few days per week in training just because I love it!!

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Paul

Just messing with you. Glad you took as a joke. Post some pics of the bike when it comes in!
Stay safe and train smart.

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__________________________________________________
Official Polar Ambassador
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NO problem, its fun!

I'll post a few days after it arrives. I ordered just the frame and I'll build it myself. All the parts are sitting in my shop.....waiting

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Paul

Is today, day 28 or 29?

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MyGearGarage - Track all your gear!

Just did run number 40 on day 28 (48 minutes of dogtervals). That is 24 hours of running - an average time of 36 minutes per run. Some of those runs were short by design, others by circumstance. When you work a sixteen hour day, trying to fit in much more than 30 minutes at a time is a bit of a challenge. I try and get in at least one longer run per week, and try for two as often as possible.

As for results, I am sure you will be several pages ahead of me Dev and I am OK with that. I have run more in the last 50 days than I have in the last 5 years. I am not a runner, but I am trying to become a reasonable fascimile of one. I was inspired to do this challenge, and the 200 mile December Challenge after reading your post on ST about the idea that running every day a slowish speed will help build your base and get you faster. I started running every day in mid November and have only missed one day so far. This despite having a two week stretch of work where I was on my feet for an average of 14 hours per day. Getting up at 445 AM to run for thirty minutes when your entire body hurts from standing in a kitchen all day is not fun.

As for results ... I have no finite measurement of improvements yet, but I am running farther and easier and recovering faster. My "feel" for running is becoming more natural, and as much as it pains me, I am actually enjoying it. I look forward to the two or three days a week I can get outside and run. I did a 17 km hill run last week and I felt great doing it.

As for the whole "camp 1 vs camp 2" thing ... If a little spreadsheet chasing gets people to get off their asses to run, whether for 30 minutes or 30 miles I think it is a good thing.

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