You asked in what sport would a country could have the top 3 athletes and not be able to send #3. I gave you an example, and would say that in swimming it is even a tougher road than for these 3 girls in triathlon. Not only would we have the top 3 ranked, but would probably have actually gotten gold, silver and bronze. Has nothing at all to do with relays, not sure at all what your point was there. Talking only about individual events here, we have in the past, and could have swept the podium at the olympics. Believe we have done it in some track and field events too, but of course we still let 3 go, so not the same.

I had a coach back in the early 90's who was ranked 3rd in the world in the 50 free, behind Jager and Biondi. I believe he got 3rd in the US trials by .01 of a second, so did not get to go to the games. 90+% chance he would have won one of the medals, as those guys would often trade places by hundredths of a second in meets.

Prior there were times where we swept events, and more recently we have gotten gold and silver with our two swimmers. Lochte and Phelps have swept events, and often if we would have had a 3rd, they would have been in good position for the bronze. In backstroke we sweep a lot of top 2 spots, and any number of our other guys could have gotten that 3rd medal.

None of this has to do with relays, still not sure where that came from..

now you are just making things up. i never asked anything. what i wrote was: "this situation has to be fairly unique in sports -- having the top 3 ranked athletes in the world in a sport going into an olympic tirals that only has 2 spots up for grabs." so, yeah, if you have to go back 20+ years to find a similar situation, then clearly it's fairly unique (you also never actually cited an example but i'll take your word for it that there was a swimming event where the US men were 1-2-3 going into the OTs back in the 90s).

the relays in swimming mean that you can come in 3rd in most events but still make the olympic team and likely still get medals. there are no relays in triathlon so if you don't make the team in the individual triathlon, you aren't going to rio. if you are ranked 3rd in the world in a swimming event and come in 3rd at the OTs, you probably are going to be named to the olympic team and pick up medals (unless you swim the longer distances or you were the 50m guy of your supposedly allegedly example 20+ years ago being #3 and not making the team).

USAT definitely dropped the ball here and should have in its rules that 3 athletes make the team if all 3 put up superior results in the test event. what good comes out of having gwen, katie or sarah having to completely revamp their training all winter for an known race in the spring if all 3 go top 5 at the test event?

i do think we have strayed away from the subject at hand so, back to ITU racing, the conditions look pretty bad in hamburg today.

In an ironic twist, Jan Frodeno handed out the race medals at the podium ceremony. When he handed Gomez a silver medal [in my head he thinks to himself] "here's your second place just as you handed me second place last year at the M-T 70.3 WC." lol

Yep, I went there.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

the relays in swimming mean that you can come in 3rd in most events but still make the olympic team and likely still get medals. //

You need to just stop talking about swimming like you have some sort of knowledge about it. Of all the swimming events, there are exactly "2" where you can get third and go to the games, the 100/200 free, period. For the medley relay you have to win the trails, sometimes the 2nd place person will get to swim a prelim, but of course they were already going because of that 2nd.


And you don't have to go back 20 or more years, like i said, Lochte and Phelps have swept as well as our backstrokers, with our 3rd person in definite position to win the bronze. This has been an ongoing thing since the beginning of swimming for the US. We were sweeping in the 1920's, and continued to do so until they made the 2 only rule..

Hey guys!

Can anyone tell me the song they play each time before the start?
There is this one specific song I get a 180 heartrate only hearing it.
It is played just between/while the athletes chose their spot for the swim start and the "heartbeat" everyone knows.
I am just curious what this crazy, electro hyper twirly psyched up song is all about and how it is called. Google did not helped this time. :(

Maybe some of you noticed the same while watching the start!

regards from germany
Nick :)

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sent from my iPhone

really? so should we just pretend that matt mclean was 3rd in the 2012 OTs when he came in 5th in the 200 free but is walking around today with an olympic gold medal for swimming 1 prelim heat in the 4x200? should we also pretend that davis tarwater didn't come in SEVENTH in the 200 free at the OTs but also is walking around today with an olympic gold medal for swimming 1 prelim heat in the 4x200? also, i will remind you that those 2 relays are exactly 2 more relays that don't exist in triathlon for someone not in the top 2 so that is a big deal.

now your assertions are getting more and more dubious. having our 3rd person "in definite position to win the bronze" is in no way, shape or form as having the 1-2-3 ranked swimmers in the world. for someone who claims to know so much about swimming, i do find it odd that you still haven't cited a single example but have stuck to broad generalizations. so which event in which year was the american swimmer the 3rd best swimmer in the world who was relegated to watching the olympics on tv? it very well may have happened but when you act all high and mighty about swimming and don't even know that the 6th and 7th finishers in the 100/200 free can make the olympic team and still haven't given an actual example, you don't get the benefit of the doubt anymore. even if it has happened, it still is extraordinary, which was what my original point was.

tough break for germany and the 10 second penalty likely taking them off the podium. how deep is the UK with no brownlees and still medaling? it will be interesting to see if luis can get his olympic racing close to his sprint racing this summer because that guy can fly on the run.

really? //

Yes really. Once again, there are exactly two events where you can get 3rd( or lower) to make the olympic team. And you keep deflecting to this relay thing, I have no idea why. You seem to think that most individual events can get you on a relay, which is so far from being true, well it just shows you lack of knowledge about how swimming works.

Continue with the ITU discussion here, this is tiring.

How many runners make the oly track team in the 4 x 100 and 4 x 400 relays??? Does USATF take more than the top 4 finishers at the oly trials??? I would think that they do.

Also, regarding swimming's "almost identical events", I will remind you of track's hurdling events: 110 m, 400 m, and the 3000 m steeplechase. Also, track has three jumping events well suited to sprinters: long jump, high jump, and triple jump. So, you have the 100 m, 110 hurdles, 200 m, 4 x 100 relay, 4 x 400 relay, plus the three jumping events, so in theory a really talented sprinter could win 8 medals in track and never run more than 400 m. Swimming does not even have an equivalent event to the 100 m or the 110 m hurdles or the 4 x 100 relay, as the 50 m free takes 21.X sec vs 9.X for 100 m and 12.X for the 110 hurdles. Also, track has more variety at the longer distances on the track as you have the 1500/3000/3000 steeple/5000/10,000 m on the track vs swimming's 400 free/400 IM/1500 free in the oly. In sum, while swim does have three relays vs only two for track, track certainly has a plethora of events to try for a spot on the oly games.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Great to see Non back on the podium (although she could do with getting her swim up a notch), she looked very fast on the run in the relay today too. Vicky taking it to Gwen was important I think, yes she still won but not by much and I'm pretty sure Non and Vicky will take heart that she is not invincible.

Incidentally, I bumped into a mate at IMUK today who is in the know and he confirmed that the Rio course is as tough as you have been suggesting. I guess we'll know for sure in two weeks time! On the BBC coverage of Hamburg the commentator said that they wanted to broadcast it like the WTS races but it was looking like there would be little or nothing to broadcast which is a shame.

what are you really arguing about...so they are top 3 in the ranking. first off all that doesn't make they the most likely canditades to go 1st, 2nd AND 3rd in the OG while swimming the top 3 times of the year at trials 4 weeks before the OG would make you the favourite but the comparisson just lacks in so many ways.

also even if they go 1,2,3 in the test event and 3rd has to go again at some race next spring. what is the super big deal. again no comparison with swimming where someone might have to stay at home coming 3rd in the trials and than watch the games on the TV and seeing that his trial time would have been good enough for a medal.

and since you mentioned the brownlees. for them to qualify this year they have to come top 3 in rio AND top 3 at the grand final. first this is a tougher qualification route and with jonny being out of rio he won't even meet it if he wins the grand final by a minute. still I can't imagine him being nervous about not making it to the start like in rio next year.

you are wasting my time here if you think that swimming's events are as diverse as t&f's. it's beyond preposterous that you are following up on this. using your ridiculous examples, which world class sprinters also are high jumpers??? which are even triple jumpers??? the absolute max that someone realistically could do at the olympic level is the 4 that carl lewis did (100, 200, LJ and 4x100) and that was 31 years ago and he had to get doped up to do it (although everyone else was too). that's HALF of what phelps did in 2008. even a not fully committed and not fully in shape phelps walked away with 6 medals in 2012, which is 2 more than a once in a lifetime performance by carl lewis 31 years ago. even lochte, who i hardly would call one of the greatest swimmers ever, walked away with 5 medals in london. so did missy franklin. so did allision schmidtt. so, sure, if you think a sport that spits out a slew of athletes every olympics who win more medals (and usually at least one with A LOT more) than what is considered the greatest performance ever in track and field, then, sure track's events are just as too similar as those in swimming.

btw, the 3000 isn't in the olympics.

can you give us some examples of guys medaling in the steeple/5000/10000? i just gave you examples of swimmers with 5 medals and 1 with EIGHT medals and i'm not relying on some theoretical nonsense. also, i'm also not talking about "trying for a spot" in the olympics. i'm talking about actual athletes who not only made teams but medaled in far many too comparable events. in your world, if bolt false starts in the 100 and 200 at the jamaican OTs, he always can fall back on giving a go at the HJ or 110HH later in the day even though he's never even practiced them.

i thought we gave this tangent a rest?

how does the competition in the rio test event "lack in so many ways"??? this race has been on everyone's calender since it was announced as one of the key races of the year and will have all of the top athletes unless they are hurt (eg, j brownlee). i never said that the top 3 in the test event are most likely to go top 3 in the actual olympics. however, as a selection tool, what better test is there than a race on the actual course (hopefully) against what will be the best field of the year except for maybe chicago? if the american women go, say 1, 3 and 4, why would you want to tell the 4th place woman that that's not good enough so come back to us in 9 months and show us that you are worthy of the 3rd spot (and tough luck if you flat or crash or it's a flat course and nothing like the rio course)? the only logical reason is so usat can hold open the possibility of naming a domestique for gwen.

i'm not sure what your point is. i'm not familiar with how the UK picks its team but, if the UK also has a bad system, how does that make the US system less bad?

are you trolling or are you serious when you asked what the "super big deal" is for someone to have to try and qualify next spring at some unknown event? if you know any pros, ask them how much preferable it would be to make the team a year in advance than to have to try and peak for a race that might be just a few months before the olympics. ask gwen and sarah how much better it was to have made the london team a year earlier rather than having to have scrapped it out in san diego the next april.

the only logical reason is so usat can hold open the possibility of naming a domestique for gwen. //

And that could be a very valid reason. Congratulations, you have uncovered USAT's master game plan..

seriously do you have any idea what you are talking about? please go to the ITU page and re-watch the 2011 London race (if you don't have a season pass than I would suggest you buy one not only because it is good entertainment but also because you might learn something before posting in the "ITU Discussion Thread"
The Rio test event will be on the same course than the OG but it is VERY likely that it plays out completely different. But my main point wasn't even about the test event not beeing a good indicator of medal potential but rather the season rankings you keep talking about.

The qualification rules were put in place for a reason and all the athletes know them in advance. So someone coming 3rd US women (and beeing in the top 8) might be dissapointed for a few days but afterwards they will do what is required to fullfil the requirements for the 3rd slot.
This is high performance sports and when the qualli rules try to make everyone happy stuff tends to go very wrong. It is possible that someone misses out due to pure bad luck but that is just part of sports. So that is why I think having to cross an additional hurdle on the way to Rio is not a "super big deal".
Sure there might be advantages to qualifing early but most people will race in the spring anyway and for someone who is a legitimate medal contender it shouldn't be impossible. Still way better than the AU qualli rules in 08 and 12. Also I am not sure that a US podium sweep at the test event was a big consideration when the rules were put in place probablt 12+ month ago.

i do find it somewhat ironic that you are exhorting me to watching 2011 videos to "learn something" when you lack the most basic understanding of the value of qualifying this august for medal contenders. rather than telling me to watch 2011 videos, why don't you ask some pros about that and maybe you can learn something? it's completely ridiculous that you would continue arguing that it's no big whoop to be forced to into having to train for an unknown race next spring on a course that most certainly will be different than rio's. that's an enormous disadvantage for any medal contender and the US right now has 3 big-time medal contenders.

your second paragraph is mostly gibberish. coming in 3rd at the rio test event wouldn't be "pure bad luck". it would be excelling at the highest level of the sport and still not making the olympic team. you are correct that a rio sweep probably was not considered when the qualification rules were established because zafares had not yet started her enormous breakout year. after gwen and sarah finished the year ranked 1-2, usat probably thought both of them were a lock, wanted the flexibility to add a domestique (that section was added for 2016) but really had no way of predicting that zafares would be even faster than sarah in most races this year.

Seriously exciting to see that Gwynn is not so invincible. I got the impression that Vicky Holland made sure the bike stayed tough to take something out of Gwynn's running legs. Heard Gwynn comment in the post race interview that the bike was hard. Now the British girls are coming back -hope to see more of that. Especially if Nicloa and Lisa Norden are there too.
Great job by Viky Holland. So closr:-)

Spirig is out of Rio.

What a slap in the face for the sport.

this just illustrates once again how clueless you are and I am too tired to explain it to you so please do everyone a favour and shut up.

Why is Spirig out?

FYI, Zafares was already a world cup winner in 2014. At Mooloolaba I think.

Since she is coming from the same program than Gwen, I can guarantee you that she was already an olympic prospect at that time. Their latest results are here because she improve her bike skills, not her run and swim. She DNS all her WTS and got injured.

the olympic criterias were written for several scenarios. Don't forget that somebody can be really dominant and have just an bad luck in Rio. If Gwen Jorgensen got an puncture. Are you confortable to not select her?

Also, don't forget that the criterias are the same for men and women. With Chicago, there is a risk that an athlete won his spot there knowing that he just can't be competitive in Rio. I won't give names, but it's easy to find.

Really not trying to argue, just pointing out the theoretically possible. Another thought that occurs to me is that since the track events have been around for about 2500 yrs, vs swimming having only been in competition for about 120 yrs, we have had many more yrs to develop our running/jumping abilities, plus running requires no pool or swim lessons, so it is a bit more open to more people, and hence prob a bit more competitive than swimming around the world. Possibly in another 200 yrs or so, swimmers will only compete in 1 or 2 events, like the track guys do now.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

She just don't want to race against Gwen. Sutton mental gAme plan... Spirig is already selected and got her spot secure at euro games

Time to change subject! The full calendar for next year's ITU world series has been published:

Abu Dhabi, UAE – March 4-5 - OLYMPIC
Gold Coast, Australia – April 9-10 - OLYMPIC
Cape Town, South Africa– April 23-24 - SPRINT
Yokohama, Japan – May 14-15 - OLYMPIC
Leeds, England – June 11-12 - OLYMPIC
Stockholm, Sweden – July 2-3 - OLYMPIC
Hamburg, Germany – July 16-17 - SPRINT
Edmonton, Canada – September 3-4 - SPRINT
Cozumel, Mexico – September 11-18 - OLYMPIC

The priority for all the top athletes is the Rio Olympics in early August. And this schedule is a nightmare for any Europe based athletes. Who will want to peak for an Olympic triathlon in the first week of March? This year, people like Jonathan Brownlee traveled for the Auckland / Gold Coast double. Next year, they have to travel half way around the world for a single event. Then comes Cape Town which is only a sprint distance with a distinct risk that it could be turned into a duathlon by the cold water. Yokohama is another immense trip at a time when most athletes are getting ready for their most important training block of the last four years.

Thinking of the Brownlees, Jonathan may have to travel to earn his qualification (although I can't believe the UK selectors would not pick him even if he stayed in bed) but I can't see Alistair competing before Leeds (because of the travel). They will then be doing their usual five week St Moritz training camp which rules out Stockholm and Hamburg makes little sense. So there is a distinct risk that the Brownlees (and others) may only race once in the world series next year.

Surely there should be at least one European race before the second week of June? There are going to be some very week fields next year...

Yeah disappointing scheduling by ITU. The only way it could work would be for Euro athletes to come out to Aus/NZ for a while and do Gold Coast and maybe the Mooloolaba and New Plymouth world cups (not sure when they are scheduled).

Leeds will be fantastic!

Watched Gold Coast live this year, underwhelming crowd and the course was pretty boring too.

Also very suprised they made Abu Dhabi an OD, two sprint distances races to start the season, and closer together too would have made more sense. Really its madness to have the first WTS so early but then wait a month for the next one. Will have a weak field. I suppose it will be good for the federations wanting to pick athletes early for the Olympics....

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