Slowman wrote:
"Regarding the Corsa Speed I was going by your response in
Post 90 of this thread:"
forgot about that. but if you add the 2w you get by putting a latex tube in standard tires, it still slays everything. doesn't it?
No. I don't think we have the data to confirm that yet. Just going with the tube change I would say the GP SS, GP TT and TC all are the equivalent or possibly even faster. I'm not ready to commit to tubeless road yet and wouldn't want to deal with mounting a tubeless tire with a latex tube. So if I can get equivalent of better performance from proven tires I'm not changing.
I also have a storied history with Vittoria tires (and their Zipp derivatives), but I've avoided presenting this as an issue because I don't have lots of data. My experiences have found them fragile. Someone else mentioned cutting down one of their Corsa Speeds sidewall to sidewall. I have this happen with two of their older Open Corsas myself. Sure it is on me, as always, for hitting something. But when you experience a tire failure that isn't just a flat, but an outright ride-ender then one (at least me) are less inclined to make this their go-to tire product.
This is coming from someone that regularly flats on the GP4000S/SII. I'm not going to give fanboi testimonials about never getting flats. My experience is the opposite. I ride the majority of my miles in two states, and in both of them there is a lot of debris on the shoulders and a lot of rumble strips along the highways. This expands the potential for running over debris. Most of my flats come from hitting rocks of some type. I'm pinched on the shoulder by cars, going fast, and there you go. I can count on one hand the recent flats I remember on my GP4000S/SII that aren't nicks or cuts to the sidewall from rocks on the shoulder or sharp debris in a rumble strip or pavement gouge. My routine now is to superglue a strip of gorilla tape over the nick later and keep running the tire as long as the tread is good. The only tread puncture flats I see are kiawe thorns in Hawaii and those little pieces of steel belt wire that come from truck tire explosions.
These flat experiences are mainly why I've become more comfortable with using the GP SS as a race tire. Race courses generally allow me to ride in the road lane and I almost completely control my flat situation by not running over debris:)
Slowman wrote:
"You are wondering why no more love for three candidates - Spec TC, Michelin Power Competition and Vittoria Corsa Speed Open TLR, over the Conti offerings?"
i simply don't think there is a category in cycling where one model of one brand has this kind of stranglehold on the market without having a product that is so much better than the rest of the market. giro i would say except it only has half the market share (of slowtwitchers) that conti has.
I generally agree here. At least with respect to the GP4000SII. I think the tire's following has grown over the last several years in large part to word of mouth through forums such as ST. Since it took some time for this to occur, I would assume it will take quite a while for any other tire to make a dent (there might be parallels here to Cervelo Tri/TT bicycles). The Spec TC could be that tire, but for some of the things I mention earlier. The price probably most of the issue. I can't believe what I see done in the tri and cycling world to save a buck when bikes cost 4 and 5 figures. Human nature to save a buck I guess.
Slowman wrote:
"Even if we follow the BRR testing rankings, there are two Conti offerings on the list that are equally fast or faster than the Michelin. Plus the Supersonic."
fine. why aren't these selling? in the case of the best roller among them i think it's a puncture resistance issue. but i agree with you. do you think the 4000S II should be outselling the attack, the supersonic, the force by as much as it is? does it deserve that kind of market share just out of the models conti sells?
No I don't think it should outsell the other Conti offerings. Given some time I think these other Conti offerings will become more popular and could even expand Conti's market share. They are much less used than the 4000SII because they aren't as well known or as available. The Attack/Force III have just been released and are labeled 23/25 instead of 22/24. I haven't seen them measured for actual width changes or tested for Crr. They might become the new go-to combo of Crr/Aero. The GP TT is a strange one. Not a lot of testing. It sure seems to roll well, but it "looks" wide. Maybe it will become the Conti version of the Spec TC - Crr so low that it overcomes aero sins? I agree with you that the GP SS will probably never get a huge following because of the puncture resistance worry.
When you move on to the next poll it would be informative to report the combined results of the tire polls in a post in this thread tallying the Conti offerings by model against the counts from the brand count of other tire brands in the original poll. How many Conti offerings besides the GP4000SII outsell the other brands outright?
Slowman wrote:
"I still believe it would be very informative to ST users and cyclists interested in performance to have a ST tire shootout."
well, i'm kind of circling that idea right now. i don't know for sure yet what it would look like. i don't care what tires you buy. i just want you to think about it before you make your decision. as with wetsuits, bikes, the races you decide to enter.
That would be great. I think the interest here and elsewhere would be huge.
This is ST. We can go on and on thinking about tires:)