I'm another Attack/Force and/or GP4000S II, most GP4000S II on my TT bike.


I run the Continental Grand Prix tires on my road bike where I log most of my bike miles... Black Chili compound tire.


Why do I use them, readily available, great specs and IMO the industry leader for real reasons.


I've used Vittoria and Michelins, wasn't a fan due to quality, wear characteristics and a few other things.

If you don't want to see them, don't set me up like that then ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

"You need to either run a slightly narrower internal-width rim, or get a new frame :-)"

that bike is a campy bike. i had 2 wheelsets, i gave 1 to paul thomas, so i have 1 wheelset. it's a great set of american classics, 25mm rim. i am fain to get another set built because that's about a $1000 spend.

i guess i need to get a new bike ;-)

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I use 4000's for my road bike and Supersonic's for my TT bike.

I tried Michelin Pro 4's a few years back on my road bike and they were terribly slow feeling. Haven't went back even though their new Power tires are supposed to be better. It's funny, because I think 10 years ago Michelin Pro 2's were what everyone was riding.

It's funny, because I think 10 years ago Michelin Pro 2's were what everyone was riding.

My cycle has been for the last 10+ years - Michelin Pro2's then, Vittoria EVO CX's and now for the last probably 4 - 5 years Conti GP 40002 S's

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Another option for 650's are the Schwalbe one.

I used it last year for training and felt it was a fast durable tire like the GP4000SII

"I actually ran TCs in the Belgian Waffle Ride last spring with no issues from them."

i would absolutely ride those in the belgian waffle ride. you might say this would be my first choice for that ride, unless i was going to ride tubies and then it would be FMBs or dugasts or something. the TC reminds me of the old clement del mundo tubies (most won't remember those).

i find that this tire behaves exactly like the cotton tubies of old, so much so that this tire, for me, actually fails first at the sidewall (but only after a lot of miles). the fabric starts to fray at the sidewall and that's when i have to finally take them off the bike. i never got a flat with this tire and wore 2 sets to the nub.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

^^^^^^THIS - especially the parts in red. My LBS mechanic, who services the bikes of a lot of pro triathletes, considers the Conti GP4000 the best all-around tire, FWIW. He's not trying to sell me the most expensive tire in the shop, but the one that he sees perform the best in a variety of conditions, including on our crappy Central Texas chipseal.

-Doug

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It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

"where do I find the latest rankings - aero and Crr? Is there a thread or doc floating around on this lately?"

aero i can't tell you. but here is a very good resource for tire testing. plus whatever tom a. shares.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Because FLO told me too...

Conti GP4000S II because it's available in 650c. Would love to have a set of Conti Supersonic in 650c also (hint, hint) ;)

I think this is part of the reason the Conti 4k's are popular.

Picking tires for the upcoming season I'd like whatever is fastest on my wheels+bike with a puncture risk equal to or less than the other participants.

But I've got no way to determine (without testing), which that is, the interaction of tyre type, size & pressure with wheel / frame aerodynamics vs rolling resistance makes for a non-obvious 'best'.

It's possible to make a decision based on test results that turns out to be worse when the whole system is considered.

So with limited data defaulting to 4k's (or a slightly racier Conti) doesn't seem to be a bad plan.

I'm happy to be of assistance in your N+1 rationalization :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I'm actually going to be most likely running THESE in this year's BWR edition:


https://www.compasscycle.com/...x-2-3-rat-trap-pass/

Needless to say, I'll be using my all-road "Frankenbike" this year instead of a pure road bike :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

The Contis have the best grip to stay on the road being fast ..

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___/\___/\___/\___ the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>

race bike: tubulars, run Bontrager R4 Aero in front since it seems to be slightly better than Continental Competition in terms of aero, Competition in rear for better puncture resistance than the R4.

For the road bike I had whatever was on sale at Nashbar, but now use that bike sometimes to race, so got GP4000s two years ago. Looked at Michelin Pros but the Conti tires were cheaper, plus there was more and better performance data available.

There isn't any consistent third-party testing on tires for performance data - crr, aero, etc. In the absence of new data it's impossible to make an informed decision. So I (we ? the neurotics who think about tire performance) tend to buy what has been tested.

Tom A's spreadsheet is very helpful but it's not his job, so that will of course be missing some tires. This thread is the first time I've heard that the new Michelin Power Competition tests better than the GP4000s. The three Michelins in the spreadsheet were tested in 2012 and 13.

I went looking for data on the Power Competition. TIL there is a site for rolling resistance,
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/...wer-competition-2016
But there is no aero data on that site.
Other reviews of the tire say the same old things, "light, fast, supple" which isn't very helpful.

Road bike:
-hand-me-downs from my tri bike which I proceed to use until the tread wear indicators are gone.

Tri bike:
-Continental GP4000S II 23mm front, Continental Force rear. A-races get fresh tires. May use Force both front and rear this year or give Turbo Cottons a try. I don't use Vittoria because their fast tires seem overly fragile to me from everything and don't have much to show for it on the aero/crr front (clinchers), Michelin's new tires seem to test on par with the GP4000 for rolling resistance but their aero properties are unknown (I'd just assume worse), Schwalbe doesn't make anything fast for racing purposes, Zipp I have no opinion about, Bongrater doesn't have a readily available "fast" tire.

Mountain bike:
-Continental Race King, I'll admit I'm far from an expert on tires in this realm but it is a "fast" tire from a crr perspective, durable, and the tread pattern is solid for dry conditions (I won't ride in the mud, lol).

I see you added a poll to determine the particular Conti model spread for the 71%ers...any reason you left the SuperSonic off of that listing? I had to answer "other".

edit: Also, wasn't the previous poll termed to ask what you'd RACE on? The new one implies race/train/whatever...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

This. I don't rerun all of my research every year - once I find something that works, I'll stick with that until something makes me sit up and take notice...like perhaps this thread.

I train and race with Conti 4000S II. Why? Because it's the iphone / Cervelo P2 of the tire world. If you want a safe bet and something that just works, that's what you get.

I only recently read about turbon cotton (from Tom A I believe) and never heard of michelin's power competition. There's not enough media exposure for them. If you ask me to name tires. I can only name conti grand prix, Michelin pro, and vittoria open corsa.

As others have mentioned, I don't think your tire poll, as presented, can accurately capture which Conti tires are capturing that 71% share. The forum does a great job of getting out the latest information on tire performance. Originally Crr through sources like BikeTechReview and Tom A's testing. Bicycle Rolling Resistance is a newer resource and I hasn't been established as a "go to" resource for forum users yet. The best resources are now including Crr and Aero properties combined. Tom A's work at the Spec Win Tunnel and Flo's development of their new carbon clinchers with tires mounted up and tested in the wind tunnel. This combined data is likely not going to be as readily available because testing tires on wheels in the tunnel is a much higher hurdle - cost, complexity, variability between tires and various rim shapes, widths, depths, etc!

Currently it has been shown that that Conti GP4000SII rolls close to as well as the best performers, offers an aero advantage and has a flat protection belt. Testing has also shown that the Attack, Force, GP TT and Supersonics typically roll even better. The Supersonics don't have a protection belt, but seem to consistently top the list for Crr. Up until the 2017 SS version was released, the SS casing also tested out very well aerodynamically. For 2017 the SS casing has changed and I haven't seen any Crr or aero testing for the new tire. It appears that the new SS could be constructed on a SP TT casing with the protection belt removed. This could mean Crr is as good as before, but the GP TT mounts up very wide on most rims and aero likely suffers:(

Personally I now run the GP 4000SII (in 25mm where my bikes allow it) for training. For racing I run the 20 and 23c SS for TT's. Depending on the TT length and course turns I swap the 20 for a 23 in front. For triathlon I started running the 23c SS for Oly's while using a Force in the rear for HIM races. As my confidence in the race day durability of the SS increased I started running them F/R for HIM too. With the possibility that the 2017 SS is not the tire that the previous generation SS developed into I may have to ration the SS use to limited races until my stock is depleted. My wife runs Reynolds Aero 58's and the rims are so wide that the Conti GP TT 23c tires seem to be the best fit. So for my answer to the poll question - Conti - my household runs 5 different models of Conti tires! We used to run Gatorskins for training, but the GP 4000s2 is available at lower cost so we don't even bother running slow rubber anymore.

A Slowtwitch led or sponsored tire rolling resistance and aeroness shootout would be great!


I addressed the market share assumption above, but because you mentioned the release date several times I wanted to mention something else that seems to be a Conti trait. Conti seems to make ongoing, unannounced production tweaks to their tires w/o changing model names. Both the GP4000s and the Supersonic were tested previously by Al Morrison/BTR and they rolled significantly slower than those same model of tires produced in later years. Some have said this was the addition of Black Chili, but those early tests included Black Chili production models. So there seems to have been a continuous effort at improving their tires from year to year. Maybe nothing has changed with the GP4000sII since 2013 or maybe their have been minor improvements made between production runs. AFAIK Conti hasn't made a lot of effort communicating updates. Maybe they're reluctant because it can lead to problems selling old stock? Conti and their tire products would be another great opportunity for a ST article:)

I haven't seen any testing that compels me to consider the Michelin tire offerings ahead of Contis. The Spec Turbo Cotton OTOH appears to be a great tire. The reason I haven't run it is that Spec products are only offered through Spec dealers and maybe only larger Spec dealers as they seem to be like latex tubes at most LBS and aren't typically stocked on the shelf. Spec products also are typically only found at retail prices. So at about $80 per tire I can basically buy any two (sometimes close to 3) Conti tires for the price of one Turbo Cotton. Since the GP SS is more aero, and rolls as well as the Turbo Cotton, I don't even have the justification of rolling the TC as a race day only tire.

In the poll you just posted, you asked which model we use for training and racing but I'm sure many STers use different models for training and racing. It leaves it up in the air to which model to tell you we use.

I looked on Conti website and they list 13 clinchers and 7 tubular road tires. In the past I have gone with one their lower end clinchers. A wide choice I think helps explain some of their appeal.

I'm more of a road rider than tri guy, what's the tri cognoscenti's view of the current Jan Heine/big fat tubeless tire theory that's starting to gain traction among roadies? I'm digging 36mm tubeless tires at 50 psi a great deal. Perhaps a bit extreme for tri/tt, but perhaps 28mm tubeless at 80 psi?

I lose one watt using a GP4000S2 over a Turbo Cotton or Vittoria clincher. The tyre is absolutely bombproof - I use if for commuting and get about one flat per year. It's also reasonably priced and available everywhere.

Any loss of time from that singular watt is outweighed by the flat protection, which would take several minutes out of my Olympic distance race, and really disrupt my intellectual and physical rhythm.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'