AP: 174
NP: 208
IF: .072
Ave Cadence: 73
Bike Time: 5:50 (7 min to change flat, 90 sec to stop and pee, 2x 60sec to fix speed box popping open caused a lower AP)
Run Time: 4:23 (foot injury caused a descent amount of walking)
Weight: 187-190

Bike: 2014 Speed Concept 9 XL, DA9070, Enve 8.9, GP4000s II (23 front, 25 rear, latex tubes)
Clothing: Octane Short sleeve one piece and LG P09 helmet.

Tough go with a flat but you clocked a strong ride! Lots of harsh bumps on the way down from Callaghan - not sure if that contributed to the flat. Road was littered with bottles and cages on the way down - bit of a hazard!

No, my flat was right after the turn around on the Pemberton Flats on a perfectly smooth stretch of road. I hit something in the road that I missed until the last second. That downhill down the Callaghan was loads of fun and where I clocked a top speed in the 50's....

I rode the course on saturday (road bike, i was volunteering that weekend), and i almost completely lost it going down callaghan, a ridge in the road caught my rear wheel and i went all squirrely, barely recovered. I would not have been so lucky in my aero bars if i brought the tri bike!

Definitely had to be "alert" on that stretch! I'll be the first to admit I'm cautious on the descents and suffer on time because of it. While I wouldn't call coming down from Callaghan sketchy, the "seams" that connect the road to the bridges seemed to be really jarring at speed. Seriously had to dodge multiple water bottles and cages that had ejected on impact from all the speed demons ahead of me! Stability of a road bike would have been very welcome (but I'm usually the timid guy descending with both hands on the bullhorns ready to feather the brakes if needed so wasn't that bad all things considered...)

No power data, but 5:50 B, 3:52 R.
Avg HR was 135 (max 186) so I was well with in the zone, maybe did not push it enough but I nailed the run so fine with me.

Downhills were 'on' I was going 46.8 mph at one point (my highest on my try bike in a while and wow that was a bit nuts).

Found the roads pretty smooth over all and drafting packs were lower that the year before it sounded. Pemberton valley was awesome.

Beautiful course, hard bike, easier run for sure....what a great weekend. Hope the full distance stays and does not end up being just a 70.3 (just guessing).

When I download my Garmin i will give you full details, but finally a course that i can back door brag about doing a decent time on low watts.

5:30 off 182W AP.

In your original post you need to ask for rider weight. Mine was down to 63 kilos certainly on the climb back from Pemberton when I was dehydrated and probably another kilo down. Equipment was Cervelo P3, LG Chrono Helmet, Bonetrager Aeolus 7 whees, Vittoria Corsa CX clinchers, Bonetrager butyl race tubes (sorry not ST approved latex). My run time was 4:11. Had some nutrition concentration issues mid way through the run that really took bite out of my legs. My fault.

Dev

I don't descend in aero, but damn close to it. I lay my hands flat on top of the base bar with my hands on the brakes. I actually try and get my body a bit lower than I would be in aero but I have the ability to check my speed as needed and would bet that I'm still relatively aero with how I position by body/arms. GMAN19030 watched me blow by people all day long on the downhills... I think I passed him at least 10-12 times on the downhills while watching him grind by me on the uphills.

Hi guys. Hope this might help some of bigger (slightly) heavier guys thinking of this race. It's a great course. Especially if you don't mind flying downhill. Course read 110 miles and 6460ft of gain on my Garmin 500. So for what it's worth. Here's my numbers.
1:10S
5:24B
3:30R
Blue Triad SL
Zipp disc with 808 and conti 4000S 23mm tires no laxtex
Race day wieght 81kg(179lbs)- No clue about my bike weight
AP 207
NP 225
IF .81
VI 1.087
W/Kg 2.78
Ave Cadance 80 (11X28cassette-rotor 53x39 170mm)
Giro selector helmet
Regular Tri tank top
Rode with BTA A2speedfill, one bottle below, one to the rear, and no repair kit.
Max Speed was 50.3mph
Stopped at Special needs because I needed my bottles and they couldn't find my bag. Maybe 60 seconds lost. No biggie. Nice quick break.
Notes-
kept power around 200-215w on flats
Tried to keep my power below 240w climbing but I'm fat ;) so that doesn't always work. When my power went up above 240w, my focus went to HR and keeping that between 145-150.
Guys-gals kept passing me while climbing, if I was around anyone. This mostly happened from Alata Lake to Callahan. Then, I flew by on the downhill and kept power up. No coasting, for the most part. I would push the power to get my speed up for every downhill.
I thought the course was wonderful and the drafting was only small packs but they seemed to be legal distance for the most part, at least out on the flat section. I was by myself from Whistler to Pemberton and back for the most part. So I may not be a good judge of that.
I felt fresh to start the run and had an even run. No real slowing minus the hills, of course and one quick pee break.

Good show Big Guy!!!

AP: 151
NP: 156
IF: 76
VI: 1.03
Cad: 91
Weight: 130lbs
Bike Time: 5:51
Run Time: 4:41 (over cooked the bike a bit and fell apart on the run, read as need to get stronger on the bike!!!)

Bike: Cervelo P5-3
Wheels: Zipp 60's, Conti GP4000s with latex tubes
Setup: Xlab torpedo BTA, one standard cage/bottle on dowtube for nutrition, cage/bottle behind saddle

Helmet: Giro Air Attack no shield
Kit: 2XU 2 piece

X1000 on the guys with high end bikes not properly maintained!!! One guy in particular comes to mind, P5-6 with Zipp 808 and Zipp disc. Passed him in Pembie Meadows, chain dirty and literally screaming for lube also rear der wasn't setup properly was chattering and miss shifting like crazy! Absolutely mind blowing!!!!

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Norm Pwr: 186
Avg Pwr: 182
IF: 0.767

Cadence: 85 rpm
Weight: ~150 lbs (without bike)
Bike Time: 5:47
Run Time: 3:48
Div. Rank (M45-49): 14
Gen. Rank: 105

Bike: NP3, 11x28 & 53/39, 165mm crank
Wheels: Front=FLO60, Rear=FLO90, Conti GPS4000s II, latex tubes

Helmet: Giro Air Attack (no shield)
Setup: BTA Torpedo; concentrated bottle of HEED/Sustained Energy in BTS
Kit: Fusion Speed Suit (thanks Chance!)

Highlight: Perfect nutrition. No big pelotons on Pemb.
Lowlight: BB that started squeaking on return from Pemberton

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/Howie Nordström

Norm Pwr: 198
Avg Pwr: 180
VI: 1.1
IF (275 FTP): 0.72
20 Min Max Pwr: 217
Cadence: 73 rpm
Weight: 180lbs (sans bike)
Bike Time: 5:59
Run Time: 4:49

For comparison, my numbers from Penticton last year:
Norm Pwr: 210
Avg Pwr: 198
VI: 1.06
IF (295 FTP): 0.72
20 Min Max Pwr: 242
Cadence: 86 rpm
Weight: 178lbs (sans bike)
Bike Time: 5:55

Big guy here (see previous post). You've just summarized my plan for next year. My approach this year was similar, except I coasted the descents and held back to 225 on the climbs. Your numbers are great benchmarks for pushing my bike split down to 5:30ish.

Scott

i finally did my download of my gps data

• NP 197
• AP 182
• Kilojoules 3575 KJ
• Moving time 5:28.53 (can't believe i lost a minute at special needs....)
• Elevation gain 2206m
• Ave temp 25.9 C
• max temp 36 C (all in Pemberton and the climb home)
• IF 0.77
• TSS 325 (this may be higher than reality as I have my FTP set at 255 and it has recently been closer to 260)
• Weight 63 kilos/138.5 lbs
• Run split 4:11 (mismanaged my nutrition mid way through the run)

interesting because our AP and NP were the same, and bike splits around 30 min apart. 40 lbs less helps on this course, but i bet if we do IM Arizona or Florida you out bike me.

Funny you say that. Blowing by all the little climbers on the Pemberton flats, then watching them zip past me on the Pemberton grade, lead to to wonder whether AZ should be my next race. The problem is, I just love this Whistler course and venue.

Glad you responded.....I saw you pre-race and on the run. Fun to see the ST community in action!

Scott

I agree on the Whistler course...just amazing. But yes, you'd be better suited to a flatter/more rolling course. Even Tremblant where most of the elevation comes on gradual stuff other than the one big climb per loop but it is not like Whistler. Or perhaps the upcoming Chattanooga course.

Just to put it in perspective that was the lowest AP i have ever ridden and the highest up in the field I came off the bike (around 60th). Normally, I am 100-200 positions further back after the bike, My watts/Cda are not great. Having said, that, even if my aero position is bad, if i ride the same watts as you on the flats, I'll guess that my hole in the winds is going to be smaller than yours as 5'6". So we would ride a similar speed on the flats (my guess is if you ride like Penticton though you ride ahead of me). Guys your size riding at 220W instead of 180W are blowing me away on the flats!

Overall stats:
swim: 53:43
bike: 5:26:46
run: 3:49:57
total: 10:14:18

Bike stats:
AP: 196 W
NP: 211 W
FTP: 292 W
TSS: 283
IF: 0.72
Weight: 78 kg

Comments:
- Fantastic swim. Bridged up to a fast pack of AG swimmers after the 1st loop. Perfect start.
- Over-biked on the first half and knew it. Thought I could back off the power on the flats (which I did) and recover for the last climb. Didn't work.
- Paid for the bike effort on the run. Difficult run course, but I think I could have 3:35 if I wasn't so spent from the start.
- Still eeked out a Kona slot, 5th place and 5 slots (surprising, normally 40-44 gets 6)! Still in disbelief: I figured I had dropped to 8th+ during the run. So grateful I gutted it out to pass 6th place at mile 23, especially considering I didn't know he was sixth and he didn't have age on his calf.

 
One of my athletes:

Norm Pwr: 249
Avg Pwr: 235
VI: 1.06
TSS: not much

Cadence: 90 rpm
Bike Time: 4.57
Run Time: fast

His Gripe: Catching much slower riders (after 70min swim) then having them rather optimistically drop him on the next hill. Pacing is key people.

Looks like I rolled through mile 59 just after special needs at 3:08 and back into Pemberton and mile 90 at 4:31. That is 83 minutes to cover 31 miles of flat (22.4mph), at an average of 207 watts. Rolling like that for 112 would yield quite a nice bike split at 5:00!

Scott

Norm Pwr: 223
Avg Pwr: 216
VI: 1.03
IF: 0.70
TSS: 260

Cadence: 86 rpm
Weight: 180 lbs
Bike Time: 5:21
Run Time: 3:38
Total: 10:16
AG: 40-44

Bike: 2013 Scott Plasma Premium
Wheels: Hed Jet C2 Disc, Hed Jet 6 C2
Crank: SRAM Force 53/39 - 175mm

Helmet: Giro Selector
Setup: Water between aero bars; concentrated bottle of EFS liquid shot / eFly on bike seat tube
Kit: Champion Systems tri suit (not the greatest and gets baggy by end of race)

Highlight: Scenery, being on the course with Marino Vanhoenacker (sp?), wife qualifying for Kona.
Lowlight: Second half of run. Relentless stitch followed by hip flexor issues, was 1:35 half way with loads left in tank.
Minor Gripe: None really. Usually first to moan about WTC's shitty shenanigans but the location, folly's and crowd were fantastic. Fair play.

---

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Why so secretive....it takes a microsecond to load up the guy with a 70 min swim and 4:57 ride! Awesome race!

10
Justin KerrVancouver, NZL
1322
09:24:37
M35-39
1/212
10/1355
1:10:28 4:57:03 3:11:39 3:21 2:07

Because I knew you would enjoy the thrill of the hunt ;)

Yeah GreatScott. I saw your FTP is 275. Same as mine. And we are about the same weight. I think coasting really hurts the overall time. On the Pem flats I was at the exact same speed and watts, as you. Nice work. I bet if you keep the power up the whole time(no coasting) you'd cut tons of time off the bike. Plus, I base my FTP off a 20min trainer test. Minus 5%. I personally feel it's harder on a trainer and it gives me a more humble FTP to race with. I did a road FTP and it's up around 300. I felt that was too high to race with. So I chose the trainer FTP. But I felt comfortable going up to 240 on climbs because of that road test. Knowing I will not keep it there too long. I know many people will say that's not right but it worked out ok for me and I had a decent day.

Thanks fs16scott, this is great feedback. I see you were running an 11X28 cassette and a 53x39 chainring on a 170mm crank. I was glad to have the 11x28, but on a 50/34 with 172.5mm. Your numbers have me wondering whether a 52/36 (or 53/39) might be better for this course.

Your cadence at 80 is actually higher than mine at 70, but I assume coasting brought my numbers down. I generally average >80.

Were you able to spin most of the grade?

Scott

In order to get the same gearing as your 11x28 with a compact crank fs16scott would have to jump to a 11x32 with a standard crank. The 28 and 32 are almost identical speed at a given cadence on those respective cranks. I just purchased SRAM WiFli so did the gearing analysis prior.

TOP END @ 90RPM: 50X11 = 52.9 53X11 = 56.1

BOTTOM @ 90RPM: 34X28 = 14.1 39X32 = 14.2

I used an 11x32 with standard for IMC this year and it was really sweet. Same as a 28 compact for the hills but a nice fat gear for the downhills. The jump between gears is slightly higher for those that insist on pedalling with 1 or 2 RPM of their usual cadence but I am happy spinning 85-95 so always find something in that range.

For rollers it's really nice as I can usually just sit in the big chainring and have a lot more cassette to play with.

My cadence was 86 avg. for a hilly course that is reasonably high for me. I trained on a standard with 27 on the cassette and kept getting bogged down with really low cadence on the hills, which is why I switched things up.

---

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Interesting! Looks like I need to study gear ratios.

You are the strongest cyclist of our little sample size of 180lb riders (based on an IF of .70 at NP of 223). What chainring did you run with the 11x32 cassette? Any by standard crank, do you mean 175mm? Your VI of 1.03 proves your point that it worked well!

Assuming you ran a 53/39 like fs16scott, I can see you guys would have a lot more power for the descents.

Scott

Jaymz
W: 180 lbs
Gearing: 11x32, 53/39, 175mm
NP: 223
AP: 216
VI: 1.03
IF: 0.70
Cadence: 86 rpm
Bike Time: 5:21

fs16scott
W: 179 lbs
Gearing: 11X28, 53x39, 170mm
NP 225
AP 207
VI 1.087
IF .81
Cadence: 80 rpm
Bike Time: 5:24

GreatScott
W: 180 lbs
Gearing: 11x28, 50/34, 172.5mm
NP: 198
AP: 180
VI: 1.1
IF: 0.72
Cadence: 73 rpm
Bike Time: 5:59

Sorry, by Standard Crank I meant 53/39. I have a 175mm crank (SRAM Force) but want to drop to 165 as I get hip pinch. I edited my post.

I did seem to be pedalling longer than others on descents. In fact I was blowing past people on descents but weight might also have played a factor as well as continued power.

When I looked at last years post regarding power I noticed a trend in times for weight / NP being lower for those who had a lower VI. Makes sense. Sorry to those I kept leapfrogging on the downhills after you passed me on the uphills, but I was the one being consistent! :)

I didn't back off on the Pemberton Flats either, tried to stick around 225 - 230 the whole way.

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https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com

Nice data for same course / conditions. Not a huge variation in rider weight, but enough to illustrate W/kg vs. bike time.

In an ideal world you want to be at the bottom left of this graph, but that's not reality....the reality is you need to be at the top left to be at the left. This stupid graph has me thinking about doing Tahoe!!!

Based on our limited sample, though, it doesn't look like you're too far off the ideal lower-left. It is clear that good aero is worth 10's of minutes, not just minutes in an ironman.

My disappointment (and surprise) was that bestbikesplit had me at 5:15 or so on 200 W AP, and their prediction was very close for Wisconsin, Florida and Raleigh 70.3. But, I came up short at 5:26. Did the wind shift at all during the day? I should probably go back and re-run the simulation with my actual power profile....

Yes, wind shifted. We had a weird headwind going down to Pemberton, which rarely happens from what I gather. Then on the way back the wind flipped and it was mild headwind back up the climb to Whistler. Normally the wind flows consistently from Squamish to Pemberton. We had an interesting day with the race start at 8-10C and then the temp rising to 36C (according to my Quarq which likely over reports as it is picking up radiating heat from the pavement....that's not what my body feels, but it is what the strain gauges in the Quarq feel). Earlier riders like ourselves got lucky though. if you recall on the run, heading back from the Green lake was a solid headwind heading towards Whistler. People riding 1-3 hours slower than us, really got hammered coming back to town.

What? It paid to have a good swim? That never happens.

Yeah, I felt sorry for those still on the course as the wind picked up.

---

/Howie Nordström

This also loses the fact that there could be other contributing factors to time (flats, other mechanical issues). I know I had 10 minutes on my time dealing with a flat and my speedbox opening twice.

My cadence dropped on the steeper parts to 60's but overall I kept it fairly high. I looked at my data again and I actually held an Ave RPM of 86. I agree with Jaymz the 11x32 would have been a better choice. It would have kept my VI closer to that desired 1.00-1.05 range. My cadence has really improved (increasing) since I went to a 170 crank( I'm 6ft tall). I was to hesitant to go all the way down to a 165 like Jaymz wants to do. But that is a good idea. Seems like he and I had a similar plan...Consistent power up, and KEEP it up downhill, while waving sorry for the leapfrog game ;). I did feel like a jerk having that happen but it ended by the time I was heading down to Pem.

I was re-reading your post and had the exact same experience at IMMT this year:

Guys-gals kept passing me while climbing, if I was around anyone. This mostly happened from Alata Lake to Callahan. Then, I flew by on the downhill and kept power up. No coasting, for the most part. I would push the power to get my speed up for every downhill.

It was almost comical especially when I was sitting and trained on the PM to keep the Watts low on the hills and these guys were standing up and hammering the hills. EVERY TIME!!! I actually was able to master the aero downhill with one arm tucked behind my back to gain 1-mph.

I was just wondering if you had a race report for Whistler. I will be doing it next year and am hoping to break 10-hours. What is your open Half and/or full Marathon time? Was it a mass swim start or in waves?

I would say that I am a stronger biker than runner so I will be starting a run focus this fall while also trying to increase my FTP from 265W at 75Kgs. I did IMMT in 5:18 at 210NP/199AP with 2300m?? elevation gain. I felt great on the run but might of pushed it a bit at the start and between miles 13-19 and cracked with 4km to go as my legs were trashed and finished in 3:55 instead of 3:30 where I wanted to be.

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

Are you sure about your FTP? 265 seems quite low to finish IMMT with 210 NP. What was your TSS? You might want to re-test to see if it's not higher than 265. For reference, I had very similar power numbers for Whistler, but my FTP is ~292 (based on 95% of 20 minute average from a 10 mi TT.)

ya my FTP test was a bit half assed the week after I got my PM in July. TSS was like 328 for IMMT but I don't really know how to gauge that. I never really did and interval training on the bike at all this year so I have to figure that out for next year.

Thanks for the feedback.

Good info. Can anyone tell me where the run turn around on the lake was in 2014 as compared to 2013. In 2013 it was at the end of the trail. With the new course did it turn around at the same place or St the lookout?

I think all the discussion about powering and having sufficient gearing on downhills is totally misplaced, certainly on a course with steep downhills like Whistler. NO ONE passed me on the downhills and I am sub 140 lb rider who almost never pedaled on downhills. I just got into my tuck with my face between the aero pads hands on the aero pads, elbows tucked in to my side and my butt on the top tube and passed everyone in my path while going at zero watts including many big guys pushing watts for no reason If the big guys refined their tucks, they would go infinitely faster than me with their weight. Same deal at IM Tremblant, same deal at IMLP, same deal at IM France. The only "tougher course" where the downhills are somewhat shallow where pedaling is faster than a proper aero tuck is Kona.

Basically you want to use a variant of the Obree egg position. You can do this from your saddle too rather than the top tube. I have no idea how Obree ever pedaled from that position, but for coasting at 65-80 kph it is dead stable and fast. If you are a bit worried, you can keep your hands on the brakes on your base bar, but it's slightly wider, but certainly saves a lot of kilojoules over the day.

I'll add mine, better late than never.

Weighted average power: 257
Avg Pwr: 240

Cadence: 85 rpm
Weight: ~160 lbs (without bike)
Bike Time: 4:51
Run Time: 2:40

Bike: 2014 Argon 18 E-118
Wheels: Shimano Dura-Ace C75 front and rear Tubular
Power Meter: Pioneer

Helmet: Bell Javelin
Setup: Bottle between aero bars; one behind the seat bottle
Kit: Champion Systems CS Elite Tri Suit

Strava file: http://www.strava.com/activities/191954090

---

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Well we finally got our data point on the tpp left of the graph. Congrats Jeff....now we just need Marino's files! Edit: deh will need to change the x axes as there is no room for anyone with a time under 300 minutes!

Well, your result is certainly a little off our scales! Great bike, Jeff, and even better run.

I love the updated graph showing the delta between prozone genetics and mere mortals. Would love to see a "top left" cluster with Marino, Trevor Wurtele and Matt Russell thrown in. Surely Matt can share his data so that Jeff's data point does not have an entirely lonely existence.

Paul,
If I had some data, I'd share it. I don't race or train with a power meter or HR. Only by feel.

I weigh right around 168. And I think my cadence is usually around 84ish.

2013 results:
Bike: 4:42
Run: 3:00

2014 results: (A bad race for me)
Bike: 4:52
Run: 3:09

Bike: 2014 Trek Speed Concept
Wheels: Shimano Dura-Ace C75 (tubular challenge tires) and a disc in back.
Helmet: Rudy Project Wing57 with visor
Kit: Castilli San Remo
Hydration setup: regular water bottle mount on aerobars and Torhans VR bottle mounted on seat tube.

---

http://www.MattRussellTri.com -Pro Triathlete -Tri Coach