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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [ccassidy] [ In reply to ]
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ccassidy wrote:
Just finished a workout when I saw this. Downloaded software, paired up kickr and PM (an SRM) and started a 5 minute test. It appears to work. TR was tracking my PM pretty well. Kickr was showing 25 watts higher. So really need to do a complete workout tomorrow. There appears to be some lag between PM to TR to kickr but need a long ride to see how it will all work out.
Thanks Nate!!!! Some fine tuning and it will work great

It should be about 10 seconds before they start to sync up. We do a bunch of things to throw out bad data.

Oh yah, we also made it so that we adjust the resistance on a Kickr two seconds before the interval changes. That makes it so that you'll feel the change when the interval starts rather than two seconds after it starts.

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, thanks Nate!

I just finished a workout, too, but downloaded and gave it a quick try. My Kickr and SRM have always been well matched, but they did seem very close with this beta version. Longer ride tomorrow, but very cool and thank you for getting this out so quickly and well.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Wow, that was really fast - well done. Just downloaded the new version, but also just finished a workout so I'm excited to give it a try tomorrow. Awesome work.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate Pearson wrote:
We also made it so that we adjust the resistance on a Kickr two seconds before the interval changes. That makes it so that you'll feel the change when the interval starts rather than two seconds after it starts.

This addition is awesome just on its own!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Just tested it for a couple minutes and it appears to be working good.
The anticipated ramp up is good too.

Will be using tomorrow morning and post results.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Well that was fast! Awesome! I already did a workout this morning, but now got the urge to try it out. Thanks.
Last edited by: astig: Mar 31, 15 20:49
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [astig] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone!

If you really want them to track close you can put your power smoothing to 5 or 7 seconds. That doesn't make the tracking any better, but the display becomes pretty smooth and you'll see the power meter be within a few watts of target if you're smooth at all.

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Something I was thinking about.....is this fix ever going to work through BTLE? For example, if I paired my KICKR to the TR iOS app through BTLE, could the KICKR itself adjust to the power it receives (via ANT+ internally) from my Quarq and adjust off that, and then send the power back to the TR app via BTLE? I'm not much of a computer guy, so I don't know how all this works.....but my n=1 point of view is that the KICKR is more responsive to changes in resistance (i.e. intervals) when in BTLE vs ANT+. Yes or no, I'm pretty content with the fix currently (through the wahoo app, I'm going to try TR's just-released fix tomorrow), so not a big deal, but I'd like to be able to use the bluetooth thing and eliminate the 1 extra step (the ANT+ dongle).
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate Pearson wrote:
Thanks everyone!

Thanks for bringing this out so fast. Will give it a try ASAP.

Having gone through the hassle of installing VirtualBox on my Mac, then Windows 7, then PerfPro, I'm likely to stick with this option because (a) it works, (b) the workout creator is REALLY FAST to use, and (c) the auto-upload to trainingPeaks saves me more time and hassle.

I just tried as an experiment to create a workout in PerfPro, export it to a .mrc file, then import it into TrainerRoad. The non-proprietary parts come across fine, though not the text descriptions. But it's REALLY FAST to do. It says something about the GUI based approach in TR that it's faster to create workouts in PP, export them, then import into TR than it is to just build the whole workout in TR.

Much as I love the clean TR interface, the lack of a table-based workout editor is a real issue for me, and I probably won't be going back to TR unless this capability emerges.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [marting] [ In reply to ]
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marting wrote:
Nate Pearson wrote:
Thanks everyone!


Thanks for bringing this out so fast. Will give it a try ASAP.

Having gone through the hassle of installing VirtualBox on my Mac, then Windows 7, then PerfPro, I'm likely to stick with this option because (a) it works, (b) the workout creator is REALLY FAST to use, and (c) the auto-upload to trainingPeaks saves me more time and hassle.

I just tried as an experiment to create a workout in PerfPro, export it to a .mrc file, then import it into TrainerRoad. The non-proprietary parts come across fine, though not the text descriptions. But it's REALLY FAST to do. It says something about the GUI based approach in TR that it's faster to create workouts in PP, export them, then import into TR than it is to just build the whole workout in TR.

Much as I love the clean TR interface, the lack of a table-based workout editor is a real issue for me, and I probably won't be going back to TR unless this capability emerges.

I agree totally...

Was a bit of a hassle to get PP up and running... but now it is. I like it a lot.

Super, super easy to make the custom workouts.

I also like the rider customizable data screens where I can show interval data during the ride.

I don't like the way you start a ride... currently I have the timer set 30 secs... and then hit start. I would like it if there was a setting for auto start like in TR.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Did a workout this morning and it works very good,
the cadence tracking may be slightly off for riders who ride out of their comfort cadence zone when doing harder efforts.
This is evident in my case.

No doubt there maybe some clashing of the power/cadence tracking being done by TR and the Kickr itself.

slackened the tension on my kickr belt also so I got back the proper rolling road feel too.

the ramp up before interval change is good, however it is also doing it at the end of a hard interval,
ie going into a rest interval the hard interval is being cut by a couple seconds.

also with this beta for some reason it is not uploading my ride, says something about upload submission failed 3 times

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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Donzo98] [ In reply to ]
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Do you guys think we are nearing the close of this thread now that we (power meter users) have two decent viable solutions through PerfPro and TrainerRoad?
I suppose somewhere out there are a few with a hub based power meter saying, "What about us?"

For now I am personally a happy camper having either TR or PP available to get my numbers reliable enough to track for estimating progress, for workout intensity control, for estimating rest periods, as well as, other metrics. I feel a bit better about what I am putting into WKO or GC without having to fudge numbers or to record on two devices so that what I do upload is fairly consistent with the power meters or having to use a false offset number in the training program.

People invest a lot and put trust in these products in order to progress and be competitive. I don't compete but I do take training serious. It is nice to see TR and PP take training with power a bit more seriously than the trainer brand does and got this worked out for us so that users can get on track to being competitive in 2015.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Well I was expecting this to take a couple weeks or more, not a couple days! Awesome work, Nate!!!
Last edited by: cmeeks: Apr 1, 15 6:05
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [lennyk] [ In reply to ]
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lennyk wrote:
...going into a rest interval the hard interval is being cut by a couple seconds.

Oh, thank god. The new beta is worth it just for this. Ha-ha!
(Great work, Nate - thanks for the quick solution).
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [lennyk] [ In reply to ]
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Same issues here about the interval load ramp up/down and being unable to upload/sync the workout to the TR database.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [crazyarm07] [ In reply to ]
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crazyarm07 wrote:
Something I was thinking about.....is this fix ever going to work through BTLE? For example, if I paired my KICKR to the TR iOS app through BTLE, could the KICKR itself adjust to the power it receives (via ANT+ internally) from my Quarq and adjust off that, and then send the power back to the TR app via BTLE? I'm not much of a computer guy, so I don't know how all this works.....but my n=1 point of view is that the KICKR is more responsive to changes in resistance (i.e. intervals) when in BTLE vs ANT+. Yes or no, I'm pretty content with the fix currently (through the wahoo app, I'm going to try TR's just-released fix tomorrow), so not a big deal, but I'd like to be able to use the bluetooth thing and eliminate the 1 extra step (the ANT+ dongle).

Yes, it will work if it's going through BTLE too. It really doesn't matter how the power meter or trainer will work.

Examples of setups that will work:

ANT+ PM -> Computrainer
ANT+ PM -> Kickr (BT or ANT)
BT Smart PM -> Kickr (BT or ANT)
BT Smart PM -> Computrainer
Vector Pedals -> Cycleops 400
ANT+/BT PM -> Power Beam Pro

Any combo of a power meter and an electronic trainer will work.

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [astig] [ In reply to ]
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astig wrote:
Same issues here about the interval load ramp up/down and being unable to upload/sync the workout to the TR database.

Ah! My last build was bad and was pointing towards a development server for upload.

Can you guys try this version? If you did a ride on the previous version no worries, it still has your workout and should upload.

PC
https://www.dropbox.com/...oad.2.6.999.exe?dl=0

Mac
https://www.dropbox.com/...Road.2.6.34.dmg?dl=0

Can you elaborate on the up/down load? Is it too early or do you feel your PM is not tracking as well during that?

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [lennyk] [ In reply to ]
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lennyk wrote:
Did a workout this morning and it works very good,

the cadence tracking may be slightly off for riders who ride out of their comfort cadence zone when doing harder efforts.
This is evident in my case.

No doubt there maybe some clashing of the power/cadence tracking being done by TR and the Kickr itself.

slackened the tension on my kickr belt also so I got back the proper rolling road feel too.

the ramp up before interval change is good, however it is also doing it at the end of a hard interval,
ie going into a rest interval the hard interval is being cut by a couple seconds.

also with this beta for some reason it is not uploading my ride, says something about upload submission failed 3 times


I think this ride looks fantastic in terms of tracking! :-D

I think my last build has some bad config data in it and was pointing at a development server.

Could you try this version?

PC
https://www.dropbox.com/...oad.2.6.500.exe?dl=0

Mac
https://www.dropbox.com/...Road.2.6.34.dmg?dl=0

Once you get that ride upload I can drill in and see the changes. Although it stops the interval two seconds early I think the power will actually track with the interval better.

Here's what it looks like WITHOUT the two second offset with a Kickr. You can see that it actually holds your power for about two seconds after the interval. The beta above is designed to fix this so you make really "pretty graphs".


CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
Last edited by: Nate Pearson: Apr 1, 15 11:34
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Still a no go on the upload Nate with the latest build. Although my 2:15 ride trracked pretty well today. :(
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [astig] [ In reply to ]
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How about this one? You might have got the download before I fixed the link.


https://www.dropbox.com/s/fu0wmy96bp4awe7/TrainerRoad.2.6.500.exe?dl=0

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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cool! That worked. Here's my workout today. I ran it with my garmin recording. It was dead on with the garmin. Within 1w and most of the time the avg power on the garmin and TR matched.



Nate, you'll notice that on the 3 gaps my power went up instead of down. For some odd reason, the load spiked up on all 3. I thought it went into "standard" mode, but even when I switched to the small ring, the resistance adjusted to still present a heavy load.
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [astig] [ In reply to ]
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sweet! Looking good!

I see what you're talking about for the gaps. I didn't test that, I bet we're sending something inappropriate to the kickr.

I'm just coding up a preference right now. Once that's done I'll test out the gaps.

What's your username on TR?

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Just tried it as I could not wait for any official release, the kickr and P/M worked together but would not work in erg mode... any ideas or should I wait for any official release that might be pending ??
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [Nate Pearson] [ In reply to ]
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Nate Pearson wrote:
sweet! Looking good!

I see what you're talking about for the gaps. I didn't test that, I bet we're sending something inappropriate to the kickr.

I'm just coding up a preference right now. Once that's done I'll test out the gaps.

What's your username on TR?

keyserSOZE
Thanks!
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Re: Controlling the Kickr via external power meter now possible [niloc] [ In reply to ]
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niloc wrote:
Just tried it as I could not wait for any official release, the kickr and P/M worked together but would not work in erg mode... any ideas or should I wait for any official release that might be pending ??

Email me at nate@trainerroad.com and we'll look into it. So ERG mode didn't work at all? The thing I wrote only works with in ERG mode, so I'm not sure how they would work together in non erg mode.

CEO at TrainerRoad
Co-host of the Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
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