What you don't know can't hurt you I guess...

Oh yes it can...

Train on Kickr at "Kickr reported FTP"=340W" (ie actually 310W). Ride race at FTP=340W as reported on your on-bike power meter -> blow up after 20 minutes.

Race ruined.

Oh yes it can...

Train on Kickr at "Kickr reported FTP"=340W" (ie actually 310W). Ride race at FTP=340W as reported on your on-bike power meter -> blow up after 20 minutes.

Race ruined.

Just found out that PerfPro did it via software and is not using the Wahoo beta. We've just submitted a bug fix release to the app store. Our next iOS release (pending any critical bugs) will have this feature in it. Desktop will take a bit longer, but I think we can add it in there too.

The entire office uses Kickrs and PMs and this is a feature we've all wanted for a while. We thought we'd just wait for Wahoo to do it but it looks like doing it in software works well too.

Thanks for starting this thread and being so active guys. Talking about stuff like this really brings it to the company's attention and pushes us to be better :).

On a slightly different topic, having tried with both TR (normal use) and PerfPro (experiments), I'm also considering a switch to PerfPro, even though I **HATE*** the PerfPro user interface. The simple reason is that PerfPro's workout creator is so much better, faster and less hassle. Right now, I'm creating TR workouts in Excel, manually pasting snippets into a text file which I then import into TR. Ugly. I'd love to see a PerfPro-style workout creator for TR.

Ok, you confused me here. Did you mix up your products. When I've created workouts in PerfPro it is essentially creating it in a glorified excel sheet where the TR Workout Creator program is more drag and drop. I only ask because I have the exact opposite viewpoint that you have. I don't know why someone woudl use excel to create TR workout with TR's Workout Creator.

Our next iOS release (pending any critical bugs) will have this feature in it.

When do you anticipate this being available? I am just about done with my kickr and this may well save it from the return.

Thanks

I think I'll try perfpro while I wait

Donzo - I saw the same kind of factors but mine would drift from .90 (lower than SRM) to 1.08 (higher than SRM) over the course of a workout. And those are %'s so if I was doing 275 SRM watts at the end the Kickr was like 20-25 watts higher. However now it is at .80 almost all the time (who knows whats going on)
PP has a workout importer but I have not played with it. You can load PP on two machines so maybe one your desktop to create workout files. Then save them to the cloud, or thumb drive or email them to yourself and then import them on your laptop.

I have measured my kickr with the vector that is torque wrenched on the pedal on my main bike. I have another bike that is on the kickr. So to calibrate the kickr i have to substitute the bikes and try with the screw adjustment to bring both power readings in line. Then i switch bikes to have the road bike for road use and the trainer bike for training. You can feel that the belt and the tension bearing are getting hotter with more minutes of exercise. That is what i think is causing the drift. The belt gets too hot and the tension bearing does not apply the same force as when cold. This is very hard to calibrate because as soon as you stop to turn the screw your belt gets colder. So when its cold the watts are higher from the kickr. As it gets warmer the watts displayed on the kickr are about the same with vector pedals and when it get even hotter like on a harder exercise it lower than the vector's.

I find the drift a lot more annoying than the unit just being off. At least if it's off, you can simply apply an offset to your FTP in TrainerRoad. Even the drift isn't a huge issue as it usually settles out by the time the warmup is done. No, the REALLY annoying issue is that the amount the unit is off changes day to day. Mine used to be really accurate (purchased it in 2013) and consistent (though it still had some minor temperature drift) until the optical sensor crapped out and they had to send me a new one. It has been problematic ever since. I won't be sending mine back - this thing is too awesome when it works well and even better as PerfPro and TrainerRoad come up with fixes to make it operate like it's supposed to.

I thought I would just wait until the TrainerRoad gang got this incorporated and not load PerfPro, but the curious part of me couldn't hold off.

I downloaded PP right at the moment of starting my training session. Having never used it before I was on edge of bailing out if I became too bogged down with a learning curve as I am usually very time crunched. It took me less than 5 minutes to download and go through the initial settings. It took about a minute to create a 2 x 20 @ 100% FTP workout because that was what I was scheduled to do last night. It took me a couple minutes how to start the workout because I had not read any directions. I was going through it quickly and found where I needed to select me as a user to get it started. The longest part of the using PP without any reading any instructions at all was getting the workout uploaded to Strava and had to send it to my RidewithGPS account and let Tapiirik send it to Strava. For some reason I could not get my Strava account linked in PP, but again I was working fast and was doing it all without instructions. It failed on sending it to my email because I did not setup that account properly. The program detected my power meter, Kickr and cadence sensor immediately and I saw the sensor ID numbers on the setup screen without having to assign them.

The PP new download works well and that was with me hastily going through the setup and workout creator to get a session started.

My N=1 experience with:
TrainerRoad controlled by the Quarq via Wahoo firmware power meter control = tracks slightly under the metrics shown on the Garmin Edge in real time. The intervals are a touch harder.
PerfPro controlled by the Quarq via the built in PP option for power meter control = tracked slightly over the metrics shown on the Garmin Edge in real time. The intervals are a touch easier.

I have a current financial commitment to TR in a paid subscription, but the PerfPro is a nice application for those who are watching this thread and may not have a training program to supplement indoor training. More than likely I will stick with TR since I have custom workouts and I am very used to a process of setup, use and uploading data post training that I like, but it is good to get a trial experience with PP. I am glad PP allows a 14 day trial run.

IMO - both options for my setup make training in the acceptable range of my assigned power levels. Within a watt or two for final workout results in AP / NP / TSS. Far better than what my Kickr was doing under its original brand new condition, which was at best 15 watts off of my assigned power levels and could be worse at times.

Interesting take on the subject...

I cracked on Tuesday night and bought PP. I didn't want to wait until TR "fixed "things.

So is it the general consensus now that getting one of these and using an external PM to control it is the only way to go? I'm on the fence about getting one but use a powertap hub currently outdoors and on my trainer. The initial DC Rainmaker review showed that it tracked pretty accurately, but this thread has me thinking otherwise....