I will only answer 1. because I don't know a lot about campy.

I would choose the Renn Disc because it has a very reasonable price and I heard only good thing about it.
If I had a lot of money available or could choose just a disc I would probably buy a HED H3D. It looks cool especially together with a H3 front.

Felix

---

http://www.weilenmann.ch.vu

Get a Renn disc with the American Classic Campy to Shimano cassette. There is no better value on the market than the Renn. It makes everything else look like over-expensive junk (which, except for the Corima, the others are junk).

Tell Frank I sent you. Okay, Felix sent you initially; but I told you about the cassette.

hed 3d disc. hed is the king. hed can't be beat. with an alps front it is sexy.



anyone remeber j-disc?

---

customerjon @gmail.com is where information happens.

"anyone remeber j-disc? "

Or the CHaero disc covers? If they are sealed properly at the rim, they'll work just as well as anything else. The solution is to use black electrical tape around the circumference and you have a functional disc at a fraction the cost. Only problem is, as far as I know, these only came in 700 sizes.

To answer the original question, I'd buy a Renn.

Price not withstanding - no brainer - Zipp

If you are on a budget - Renn

Tubulars (if you are going to do it, do it right)

---

----------------------------------------------------------

What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I can get most of the major manufacturers at well under retail - having said that I think I'm going to get a HED superlite. Since it only comes in tubular that won't work for you so I would suggest the regular HED disk. Not as light as a ZIPP (maybe ~350g heavier?) but ZIPP's prices have literally gone thru the roof this year and not really sure why. Even at wholesale, their prices are still pretty steep. My experience with ZIPP has been of questionable reliability although I will admit the customer service was excellent and they always got the problems fixed. I've never dealt with HED customer service as I've never had any problems with their wheels! (used to have a pari of HED3's). HED makes nice stuff!!

Record9ti is not over the frenc thing yet!

you want me to ride a zipp with clinchers...I see :-)

Considering my tendency to flat, I want clinchers (understand I want to make sure, after flating -god forbid- I can still go fast in corners...)

as for KG, email Hed, they can make you a superlite for clinchers...just ask them. I entirely agree on zipp's prices...the new disc is nearly $300 extra for some dimples on the surface and $1300 for deep rims is very steep.

Francois, I would go with the Campy Ghibli disc if you are using Campy. This is a magnificent piece of equipment. It is extremely stiff and lightweight and with Record hubs it rolls like a dream. Go with the best.

[/quote]Considering my tendency to flat, I want clinchers

You are less likely to flat with a good pair of tubulars. No pinch flats. And tubular wheels and tires are lighter. Only downside is cost, but that's why you save them for racing.

hehehe...anything cheaper???

it is only for tubies I believe, and I think manuf. cost is like $1400...I do agree, it is a magnificent disc...

Prime Alliance team had one to sell for $500 not long ago...it was gone in 2hrs...

if I could get a ghibli under $900, I'd go for it even with tubulars. otherwise it's too pricey.

anyone checked the Xlab? used by the whole german track team and they kick butt..cant be that bad.

For the price of a Campy Ghibli disc, you could get quite a few Renn discs.

By the way- I have had 0 flats in races in the last two years racing tubulars. I have raced them both, and I go right back to the tubs. I will say this: the ride of the worst tubular equals the ride of the best clincher.

Do me proud and get a Renn disc and a nice front wheel in tubular format. There IS a reason why my signature says what it does (because it is true)...

in my last 2 years, I had 4 flats in races...always with clinchers, maybe you guys are right....there is a pattern with stupid clinchers :-))

I've had 3 Zipp discs over the past 15 or so years (one free hub, one cassette, and now 650) and have never had the 1st problem. They are fantastic! I do agree that the prices seem to have skyrocketed for some unknown reason. The old joke on the circut was that HED provides great customer service, and Zipp owners have no reason to know. Both great companies.

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

The heck with clinchers. You want tubulars on a disk wheel. If your buying a disk your looking for a speed advantage. Tubular wheels are the way to go. Clinchers are for training, since it doesn't really matter how long it takes to fix a flat. With a tubular, your chances of flatting are reduced, you can put higher PSI and changing a flat is a snap. As far as rollouts in corners after fixing a flat, I don't think you will have to worry about that in a triathlon. As long as the tubular is pre-glued and inflated properly they will not rollout from the rim.

If you go with a clincher Disk your already adding over 200 grams.

The Zipp Disk is the way to go. The wheel is much lighter than any Disk I know under $1,500. The dimples make a lot sense, in fact the technology has been used for quite some time in golf.

I have heard good things about the the Renn Disk weighing in at 1195 grams. The Zipp weighs a nice 960 grams. Around 235 grams less, but then you add a tubular vs a clincher and your talking even more weight savings.

If the weight doesn't bother you I guess go with the Renn and use the extra money to buy a computrainer or something.

ok, ok! I go for tubies...

already have a CT...

Gald we convinced you. Now go for the Renn disc, as it is a better value. Use the copious extra money saved for race entry fees (since you have a CT).

Never meant to badmouth ZIPP - but I did have lots of problems with my rear 404. I got caught in the middle of that bad EDCO hub fiasco. Wheels had to be sent back to ZIPP 4 TIMES over 2 seasons to be rebuilt before everything was right. A comedy of errors really. Luckily they never failed in a race so that is the important thing I guess. Although I went to IMUSA in 2001 with no rear race wheel as it was still in Indy getting rebuilt. Sitting in my hotel room on pins and needles wondering if the damn thing was going to arrive on time. It got there 5pm the day before the race. :)

All is well now though. Wheels are very nice.

aren't tubulars to difficult to install? Don't you have to enter a training camp and then start a specific training program just to be able to change a tub correctly without finishing your ride on the rim? I'm currently on the market for my first race wheels and not sure about tubulars (I never flat so far with my clinchers)...

Richard,

I am no wrench and I find tubulars actually easier to mount than clinchers once you get the hang of it. For me that convenience is worth the price so I have tubular training wheels too. Sure, it is a bit tricky at 1st, but easy to learn. In a race there is absolutely no question tubulars are easier, and you don't have to carry as much extra stuff, like tire tools.

Good Luck,

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

David,
How did you learn? Alone with some king of tubular 101 book or in your LBS...

OK, I hate to be to voice of ignorance, having never ridden an tubular, but everything I read indicates that whatever advantage tubulars used to have over clinchers is pretty much gone with the latest generation of clinchers. I ride Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX clinchers, and can't imagine a better ride than these tires. Never had a flat in 2 years on these. Pinch flats!? If you check your tire pressure every day you should never have a pinch flat- even on a clncher- unless you're hitting some monster potholes. I'd be more worried about trashing my rim that of getting a pinch flat. You can get clinchers up to nearly the same PSI as a tubular nowadays, so rolling resistance isn't a difference any more. With all the downsides of tubulars (messy to glue, risk of rolloffs after a change, have to carry a whole spare tire in races) why would I ride a tubular when there is no real quantifiable advantage?

Now, there is something to be said for the mystique of riding tubulars. I'm not bashing here, but let's face it, product selections are as much about picking what moves us emotionally as about making the right technical decision. But, since I've never ridden a tubular and they do nothing for me emotionally (other than scare the &$%@ out of me when I think of rolling one off on a 10% grade descent) I'll stick with the clinchers.

Sorry- it just seemed that this thread had gotten too one-sided for tubulars, so I had to speak up on the virtues of clinchers :-)

Not to be irritatting, but, oh what the heck.

I'm gonna put a vote out there for tubular clincher tires by Tufo. You can get a clincher wheel and use the tire like a tubular. Changing the tire is supposed to be faster because there is no glue to mess with. Just pop in and inflate. And tis way if you really don't like tubular, for what ever reason you can go back to clincher.
The flat tire varmit.

---

I don't work here, I just live here

Richard, I just went down to the local shop and asked them to show me, and then watch me. i even did a customer or two. The Bunnyman also has posted on here his step by step guidelines. They are good, but seeing and doing worked best for me. Good luck!

---

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

There are detailed instructions at www.nimble.net

Just click on tubular tire advice which is on the right of the screen.