In some ways, I've learnt to be more relaxed about food as I got older. I mean, yes, I binge, and apparently still purge on occasion, but when I was a kid and a teenager I had all these things I wouldn't eat - meat (still vegetarian), mushrooms, onions, eggs (still don't really), tomatoes, black pepper, etc etc. I freaked if any food touched other food; I wouldn't eat anything mixed and I can remember not speaking to my mom for a whole dinner when I was around 15 or 16 because a pea touched my rice (!!!!) and I was convinced she did it on purpose. My poor mother. I didn't say anything to her, I just sat there suspiciously, convinced she was out to get me by rolling peas at my rice! i remember her being a bit confused that meal. And I used to gag/bring up food all the time. I had an incredibly sensitive gag reflex. All that stuff is way more normal now, which is good.

I agree with you about the binging and it not hugely being about control. I have control issues, but I sort of think in some ways the binging is what I do b/c I'm angry, at myself, or to sabatoge myself, b/c I don't deserve something. It and the purging are sort of like punishments for me. That's why I was thinking in some ways what cutting was for me food was and is too. Cutting was something I did in secret, I looked forward to, it could be like a treat to calm or soothe myself, but I also only ever did it when I was unhappy (or not entirely rational). Cutting and purging are both ways of getting stuff out of you, literally, but figuratively too. Huh.

Your first paragraph - all of those are actually very normal for kids. I would not consider those part of your eating disorder. You'll laugh at this - I won't eat anything with actual flavor. It's not an "eating disorder thing" but rather a 'sensory issue' in the same way that some people (again, is more common in kids) are particularly sensitive to certain fabrics (tactile sensitive), textures, etc. I like bland foods.

Your second paragraph: that feeling of not deserving something = low self esteem... one of the things you'd work on in therapy. And that low self esteem is another common trait in people who suffer from eating disorders. It's funny you mention that because this is something I am just starting to figure out for myself and working on in therapy - I don't have low self esteem... but I derive an unhealthy proportion of my self esteem from being thin.

I've never cut... but you are right to draw the correlation between cutting, purging, starving ---- or any other self destructive behavior.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Oh yeah, I wasn't thinking of the pickiness as anything but that, I just meant that I'm a lot better about food in that I don't obsess like that, that I didn't build on those weird kid things. I think I was a bit abnormal in my reaction to food touching other food, but I don't think that was an eating issue so much as I could be paranoid as a child/teenager.

Interesting what you've figured out about your self-esteem and how you get it. I don't even know if I have low self-esteem so much as I can get very angry at myself. I guess though, I have issues around what I deserve, which I suppose is similar. I get into fits where I think I'm a bad, bad person, but for the most part I think my esteem is okay. I don't know. I realized too, one of the big reasons I broke up w/my bf before was because he loved me, and he treated me so well, and it made me so angry. It wasn't the only reason; I really wasn't capable of being in a relationship at that point in time. But it's one of the things I tell myself to try to keep myself grounded when I'm getting a little bit paranoid; people don't care about me that much, nobody would bother. I tend to assume everything is focused at or on me, or somehow around me, even the littlest things, which seems horrifically conceited in a way.

I HIGHLY recommend Cognitive Behavioral Therapy from a trained practitioner, coupled with regular therapy with a psychologist. CBT helped me regain control of my life, and to this day continues to help me function in the "real world."

PM me if you'd like more info.

---

---

mmm-mmm-Momo Charms
Handmade beverage charms, jewelry, and miscellanea
http://momocharms.wordpress.com

Tigerchik,
You are right about an RD being part of the team. I was more trying to say that an RD alone is not the answer. As an RD, I've had doctors in hospitals put in consults for me to see someone with disordered eating and my expertise is really not what they need. You can talk to them about healthy eating and they can recite to you what they think you want to hear, but until the behavior and mind changes they will not make any eating changes. It is very frustrating and like banging your head against a wall. The posters on this thread who are discussing their disorders, yourself included, know the proper way to eat; but choose to do otherwise because of their relationship with food. Until the relationship changes they will not use that knowledge. Just my .02.

I actually spoke to my best friend (the RD) Sunday and she is very supportive and willing to help w/meal stuff, though she basically echoed what you are saying in that it really isn't the issue, given that I know plenty about HOW to eat properly.

I did go to my first OA meeting tonight - overall, I found it friendly and welcoming, and it was good to see people with similar issues and experiences - a common ground that a lot of people don't get - there, and who haven't binged (or purged) for years. That was cool. I found it a bit heavy on the god (I'm atheist), and talked to the woman who was assigned to speak to me one-on-one after about that, and she said 'god' is used as a term meaning things for various people, and could be, for instance, personal power for one person while it could be Jesus for another. My friend who went with me has been in the program for 8 months and said that took her a while to get used to, but she did. So I figure, going doesn't hurt anything, so I'll give it another couple of tries and see what I think. They ask that you go to 6 meetings before you officially commit and get a sponsor, but the woman I spoke to after the meeting gave me her number if I needed to talk to someone, so that was actually quite nice. They also said that the big thing is admitting that you are powerless - which I do realize - but that you have to 'give up' your control (to god, yourself, whatever) which I was like 'ummm, I have control issues, it's hard enough to admit I don't have control, let alone surrender control, even if it is to a part of myself' (which I guess would be the atheist surrendering as I could fit it into what little I know of OA). But like I said, I figure it can't hurt to go to a bit more and see what I think, and it's nice regardless to be around people who have such similar experiences.

I am also going to contact my doctor and re-examine my meds. I'll probably get my bf to come to the appointment as well, for support, and b/c he does experience me (for lack of another way of putting it....not that I'm not of course an amazing experience) and so I think it can be a chance for him to possibly talk to the doctor if he has any questions and maybe - he is very supportive, and I know he's read up on bipolar and everything, but I guess get that side of it as well.

I also spoke to my mom today and she was very supportive. It's difficult for me b/c she was telling me today she's been struggling again lately with feeling like she failed me as a mother, which I know she's dealt with before and which really bothers me, b/c she was an amazing mother, but she feels she didn't properly protect me or whatever, which I think is unfair to herself. She said she is planning on going back to therapy. So I'm proud of her for that but really do feel bad that that is how she is feeling, and worried that this whole food thing will make her feel that even more. Especially since she really is the best Mom, and always has been.

I am VERY happy to hear you took some big steps over the last couple days. These are all going in the right direction. Just keep moving forward and you'll do great. I now it is scary to mess with what you know but there is a better life out there and now you need to go get it.

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Agreed. Pick up the book "Get out of your mind and into your life" by Steve Hayes. Check out contextualpsychology.org. Start getting into the verbal piece of this. Humans are the only critters that get into these patterns, and we're the only critters with language (defined in a very specific way). With acceptance and commitment, you can begin taking steps in valued directions and start living right now, in the moment. This is considered "third wave" cognitive/behavioral therapy with the traditional cognitive piece stripped out and the behavioral piece fleshed out with RFT. Either way, get the book, let it wash over you. If it resonates with you, go back and do a thorough reading.

I saw a dietician for the first time today. I lucked out. She ran for Oregon in college (not sure how she got all the way back to Maine but anyway). Really likes working with athletes, doesn't think I'm crazy, didn't JUDGE (that's huge), didn't bat an eyelash to my list of "stupid anorexic things I do [and want to get over]" or my food fears or anything.

She's coming up with a 'meal plan' for me for next week but in the meantime my challenge for the week is that lunch needs to have a carbohydrate in it (ie, bread or rice etc) rather than just a salad with tofu or stir fry with tofu etc. So today I had carrots and broccoli with a smoked gouda spread, and a piece of zucchini bread.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

tigerchik, that's great! so glad you found a dietitian you like and that you had a good lunch today :) it sounds like the dietitian will be an excellent fit. glad to hear the update!

So glad for Teags and TigerChik to take control of your eating in a healthy way! It will be hard but worth it. Teags-bring your boyfriend to your appointment. My psychiatrist has told me that your family and friends are the best barometer of how you are doing because they see your behavior more objectively than you do. My reality is my bi-polar and that shadows my own judgement about how I am doing. TigerChik-remember not all carbs are bad! Complex carbs have fiber and slows foods transit through your digestive system (but I'm sure your RD told you that :-)).

I do currently ask my bf and family to let me know if they see changes, but I think sometimes I can be hard to talk to/convince that my reactions to things are, for instance, not entirely proportional. As you say :) For instance, when the SUV hit me about a month ago, screaming/swearing at the driver and hitting his hood (might've dented it, heh) - my mother was horrified, and my bf was like 'ummm....'. But at the time, any attempt to say to me that my response was over-the-top I just argued. And while there is still a huge part of me that says 'he hit me with his SUV, he deserves it' (I mean, he gunned it forward while I was in front of his vehicle, I had a bruised elbow and a 3-ft SUV mark on my tights, luckily b/c I am a suspicious pedestrian I was able to mostly jump out of the way), I can see that other people may have reacted more sedately, and maybe that me thinking I was/am completely justified is a sign that I'm not totally stable. That, or I don't like people in extremely large vehicles driving into me while I'm a pedestrian. He could've killed me. (See, that's me justifying!) Of course, I also think my bf is far too forgiving where cars intruding into runner's space are concerned. But yeah. I don't want to make other people responsible for my care, but having people be able to give input about my behaviours is important, and something that I want so perhaps I shouldn't argue it when I get it :)

I haven't been perfect with food, but one other thing is I can't 'talk' at any meeting until I have no binging for 7 days, so if I want to be able to participate, I need to get that under control.

It is funny, the lies your brain tells you and the irrational rules it creates. Pasta, a good complex carb, is a very hard thing for me to eat. But I usually have a piece or two of chocolate biscotti, which by the way is pretty much all sugar and simple carb, in the afternoon for a snack, and this does not phase me in the least. I'm the queen of irrationality.

Lunch today was tofu, stir fried with veggies, and sesame noodles. Did not like the sesame noodles. Wanted to throw up (which would be the second time I've had that particular urge today but this morning it was because I was upset over something, wasn't a food-related thing), do NOT like feeling full at all, it'll go away but right now grrrrr I do not like feeling full. See, if I don't eat, we don't have this problem!!!! Hungry and feeling thin is far preferable.

grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Hey, Tegas, wanted to share this with you (and others) --- it's from the SomethingFishy website, which is a pro- eating disorder recovery site. It's called "stop swap console" and it's a GOOD coping skill.

http://www.something-fishy.org/.../stopswapconsole.php

There's a whole bunch of other good stuff on the site too.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Tigerchik, thanks!

I really like that - I'm going to check out the site in more detail, b/c that was very helpful.

I went to my second OA meeting last night - different one, WAY smaller, but I liked it better. More stuff I found relatable/helpful in how I look at myself, and there weren't the same sort of restrictions on who could speak. They were very welcoming, and I liked that people didn't need to speak w/mics to make themselves heard.

I feel like I'm doing better (by my standards, mind you). I spent most of last week debating with myself what exactly counts as binging, and then decided that if I have to wonder, it's not a good thing, regardless of where it falls re: binging, and that I needed to stop making 'well that wasn't REALLY' excuses.

I am glad you're doing better and your standards are the only thing by which you should judge progress.

The other really good thing from that site is the "If you really knew me" list and the Coping Bank - all good little anxiety release ideas.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Alright, the guy I'm dating is taking me out to dinner tonight and I'm stressing over it :-( eating out is hard. We're going to the Olive Garden... guess whose main fear food is pasta?!

I can survive and be fine, right? aieeeee.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Can you get a salad and a smaller serving of pasta? I haven't eaten there in years so not sure what the options are. Good luck!!! :) (oh, and have fun!!! Is he cute :) )

The olive garden has soup, salad, and bread sticks. It usually isn't on their dinner menu (as it is a lunch special) but you can still order it. When we had our suburban office, we would go for lunch periodically. The minestrone soup isn't all bad.

I also think they also have meat based dishes that are light on the pasta.

Have a great time and enjoy your date!

Go on their website and look up the nutritional info, that way you can make an informed decision before you go. I try to do that so I don't totally blow my healthy eating attempt!

That would be a good idea except I'm forbidden from looking at and adding up calories in things. We are trying to break me of that habit and so far, successful!

I think one of the things that bothers me about eating out is it's "purposeful eating" - I have to sit there and eat and pay attention to it rather than say eating dinner while reading (common for me), in which case I can be nicely distracted. I don't know how to explain it. It's kind of like how I tend toward bland foods, like plain oatmeal or quinoa or yogurt, which I claim is a 'tactile sensitivity' in some way and my therapist explains as "you don't want to taste something because then you would have to notice you're eating something." :P

That and restaurauts = lots of people = overwhelming.

I'm just having an anxious day in general I think... thank you for the support. I'll survive :P

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD

Howdy,

The above--"looking at and adding up calories in things" describes one of my tendencies to a tee. I'm a guy, mostly lurker on ST, but I am also struggling with my own eating disorder. Yesterday I was reading slowtwitch in desperation and came across this older thread, so today I resolved to post and also am thinking about participating in the weekly 'how'd you do' thread. feel slightly awkward about the prospect of that, as a guy, but whatever works, works.

I too have struggled with alternately binge eating and being a bit neurotic about what I eat. Generally, I'm either in the mode of eating all the junk food (secretly) that I can get my hands on, or writing down everything that I eat, counting calories, etc. This has been going on/developing for the last 13 months. There've been many, many attempts to overcome it, none successful in the long run up till now. Right now I'm on an upward kick, so I'm feeling good about sharing my experiences. yesterday wasn't so good.

I can empathize with what tigerchik has said about taking comfort in being thin and hungry. Right now I'm at 172 (6'0" tall), but in the past I've been as low as 152 or so. Right now I am prepping for second IM, Brazil, and would like to be at 160. I just need to remember that weight loss (healthy) comes slowly, but consistently, through good habits.

I too attend a weekly addiction recovery program meeting, and have found that to be helpful--though most of the other attendants are dealing with other addictions, so I am starting to wonder if an overeaters anonymous meeting might be more helpful.

For me, I guess the hardest thing is once I've been on track for a little while--say 1-2 weeks, I forget the necessity of constantly reinforcing the positive messages/actions that helped me to get there in the first place, I let my guard down, and I slip again into old habits of ice cream and cookies and whatever else is available.

I want to be happy (duh), and I want to lose some weight (trying to qualify for Kona, every little bit helps), but I don't want to revert back to the me where I obsess about every calorie, write it all down, and think too much about weight, or tie my self esteem to those numbers.

But you gotta start somewhere! And that somewhere today just happens to be slowtwitch, the womens!

I'm glad you posted!

Sorry you have been struggling, but glad that today has been good :)

I don't know if the weekly recovery meetings you're going to now follow the 12-steps or not. I've actually missed OA meetings for several weeks (being sick, being away, being lazy) and I really should get back into going. I'm not totally sure how I feel about them - I can really see their potential to help, but there is a part of me that doesn't like the group aspect of them (of course, there's also a part of me that does). I think for me too I've really realized that like people (JenHS especially) pulled out of my posts, I'm not totally stable right now. And actually, I think this thread helped push me to realize that. I've had some conversations with my boyfriend b/c right now I'm struggling with being all over the place. And I think I will get more out of them when I'm stable.

I have to go to a meeting now (work, not OA :) ) but if you have any questions about OA post them or PM me and I'll try to answer them.

Yes, it always feels good to communicate what one is feeling, whether it be talking, writing, or even posting on ST.

The meetings I've been going to do follow the 12 step program. It's funny, sometimes I want to go through all 12 steps in one day so I can say that 'i'm cured' and other times it seems like each step is just so BIG.
The meetings also have people that have (in my mind) some even greater difficulties--drug addictions, sex addictions, you name it. So going to them, in addition to the group aspect/12 step thing, also puts things in a better perspective.

Like you, I've been able to find a lot of support from family members and from my GF. She is great. Hard thing is that they cannot fully relate to what you experience, which is one of the strengths of the group meetings.

Isn't posting on ST at work great? thats where I am too.

Hey. I'm glad you found the thread.

Have you received professional help at all? I honestly believe it is almost impossible to overcome an eating disorder without it. Therapist, nutritionist - whatever. I have both right now, and the N. has been really helpful in figuring out 'why I eat what I do' / what my 'triggers' are, etc.

Anyway. That comfort in being thin thing. What I am fighting right now is the desire to look emaciated, when I am not. I am quite thin, healthy/athlete thin but not emaciated. So I like looking skeletal. Perhaps I always will. But it's a choice: skeletal and weak and slower and less healthy, or look like I do now (I have a beautiful body. On some days I see it and others, I don't.) and FAST.

I had a bone density test done last month and my bone density has gone down. I lost 15 lbs since last year when I had it done, and when you lose weight, you lose muscle, fat, and guess what else, BONE MASS. Having those t scores go down was "almost a good thing" in that it is reminding me, "if you lose weight you are losing bone" and quite frankly I can't afford to do that. And that thought got me to eat a bowl of oatmeal before bed which otherwise, I'd have skipped. So this is my driving force right now, not wanting to do more damage to my skeleton.

---

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD