Sorry, I misspoke on the Tririg review. I do felt that they were a little overly critical of your design, and that the simplicity of your newer frame design is really one if its strong points. I could take or leave disc brakes for now, but I do agree that there is ton of improvement and innovation to be made and that's where the market will eventually go.

I thought your design was great, and it was a definite departure from everything that was being showcased that year.

Also, I have like six thousand questions about the 3d printed proto you made for the frame. I'm doing something similar for a medical device mock up. I'll PM you.

Yeah what a head scratcher. Parlee, a company with a pedigree of TT bikes that suck, does something, and we are all skeptical. But then Damon Rinard, the foremost road/TT aerodynamics engineer on the planet, says something -- which is essentially corroborated by the aero r&d lead for the world's largest bicycle manufacturer (and a company that owns its own wind tunnel) -- and everyone finds those statements highly compelling in support of these companies' forthcoming products. Not to say that these guys aren't swayed by the obvious marketing/sales/financial boon this is likely to be for their respective companies, which is very likely to sway their analytical objectivity vis-a-vis incumbent products, but their opinions and statements are still much much more compelling than a prototype from Culprit or Parlee.

Trek liked this design so much that they, ahem, "mimicked" it for shimano direct mount.



But the Aero version ee brakes have been around for at least two years.


http://www.bikeradar.com/...eurobike-2014-42326/

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Suffer Well.

This is probably the best integration that disc brakes can hope to achieve. Ignoring how likely it is that you'd just shear off those bolts holding off the inboard caliper during braking, I still don't see it being more aero than Trek's solution.

I'm kind of guessing that the main reason that disc brakes are able to test close to rim brake options is that the spokes on the NDS of the wheel are more inboard. That probably accounts for a relatively large amount of frontal area. Anyone remember the Easton TT wheels? They had narrower hub flanges.

Unfortunately, this is a truth in branding and awareness. When I first launched Culprit with road disc and tri disc as my objective, it has been an uphill battle from the beginning as innovation from a small player isn't seen as innnovation. But when a larger company that can market it right and convince the public its correct, that's different.

I started road disc with TRP parabox... total nightmare to use, but was the only option back then. Now, we have so many options from Shimano, Sram, etc. So the technology is finally catching up. Point being. it is truthful yet hurtful that a small start up company that challenged the industry can't persuade consumers. Damon and others do have history and Pedigree, (experience from years of time in the industry), but it doesn't mean a small player can't come and shake things up.

In Kona Last year when I was showing the Legend Publically near the bike check in, I had the Cervelo engineering team study my bike for about 15 minutes and discuss among themselves. When I finally realized who they were, I asked them about their new P6 and asked they not copy my design cues, they replied, Would we not have a bike ready and finished? Haha, seems yes...

Canyon, Felt engineers also stopped, studied and encouraged. Point being. A small brand usually shakes up the industry veterans and other brands but without a marketing machine such as Specialized and bigger brands have, getting the newest tech and changes across to the mass market is a difficult feat.

Similar situation that Ventum and Dimond face.

Also, a side note, These other bigger brands have more capital to test against a larger amount of competitors in a tunnel and a bigger R&D budget. But that doesn't mean a smaller brand with less capital can't outshine them.

After testing my forks, 2 different forks on my Legend. I can tell you that a properly designed disc fork is substantially faster and has better airflow. A rim caliper is limited by those on the market so you must keep the top narrower limiting airflow. However, if you design a tri disc fork correctly, it improves airflow where the speed is at its highest, at the top. So Tom, yes, the forces of airflow at the center of the hub/disc caliper and rotor are lower than the drag forces on a brake pad holder, etc as they are involved in the created airflow of a rotation wheel.

Look at Team GB track fork. There are 2 ways to make faster track bikes. 1. pair it with 1 wheel and make the airflow laminar to the wheel and fork( Felts new bike, new Cervelo track, Pinarello's bike for Wiggins Hour Record) or you make the crown very wide to allow the air to smoothly flow through. Disc brakes allow the later since road bikes can't be designed for ONLY 1 wheel.

Yes, that's the reality of large firms in every market -- they are able to use structural and inherent economic moats to protect their competitive advantage in this (semi) free market. These companies have financial resources and operating leverage smaller companies do not. I sympathize with you, my friend.

However, I keep thinking about TriRig when you talk about the plight of small companies. Salazar and his one man shop continues to shake things up and deliver product after product that for some reason the broader market isn't giving us. Why has it taken all these years to get a damn bottle cage that I can easily zip tie behind my saddle without drilling holes? Where was X-Lab on this one? Where was Profile Design? Specialized? They were all asleep at the wheel.

So, I challenge you to innovate better and faster than these larger companies -- the better your execution, the more the virtuous cycle of marketing will benefit Culprit. Your stem idea, for instance. I think It's a very good one. I'm highly interested, and I know others will be too.

I agree on Tri rig

But I also see his market tailored to a very small niche market. This forum is slowtwitch and its catered to his market needs. Triathlon
If you look at his range, it is innovative and does well, but not mass market scale. I don't believe Nick is full time Tri rig. It is his side project.

Profile is at the top of the Tri market. Talking to them, They said climbing there was hard, staying on top is harder. Profile is pushing more now into road and tri market, OEM spec of bars/ stem, etc.

New stem... Finalized supplier,which means they know how to manufacture it best so are making design adjustments(3d first with FEA) to ensure it will pass ISO, etc. As well as designing the garmin mount accessories, etc with me. So needs a little more time for perfection.

I hope to be riding a sample in Dec/Jan and start teasing it on FB

I don't get it...what about that SpeedConcept fork design precludes a wide crown?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I second this comment. Rim hydro is fantastic. I have the rival rim hydro brakes on my crit bike and they are fantastic. When eTap comes out with the hydro levers I may switch over to them and hydro rim brakes on my road bike. They simply feel better and allow me to have more confidence in my braking. I ride disc on my gravel/allroad bike and love it too. There are some roads/conditions where nothing compares to a disc brake. For TT, I can't see the need at all. If you are doing anything other than light braking you are doing something wrong. The only way I would go that way is if they are proven faster.

The eTap hydro is out...and the rim brake is conspicuously absent. I've asked if the current rim brakes are compatible, but haven't been able to get a response yet :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I guess you make a living from that and I can appreciate that you need to pay rent and get food on the table, and maybe pay for the status symbols.
So good for you that you developed a reputation that people buy what you say. No hard feelings.
After all, we all need to make a living by selling our souls, as science itself doesn't pay the bills..

But really?

Over.....and.out.

REASON:

No control of profit margin and royalties....

Kills off all good and simple ideas to come to market.

I think your observation of Tririg is spot on. He saw an undeserved portion of the market and was able to leverage his skills to capitalize on it in a way that's relative to his abilities and resources. He has a small market that fits his smaller output ability.

I think you definitely need more marketing/better exposure. I read your white paper on the testing for your disc frame. If you're testing with that close of a margin to the P5-6, (and better at various yaw angles) then you should have no problems capitalizing on the upcoming wave of disc brake converts. Up until reading that, I was under the impression that a disc frame was always going to be less aero, and the trade off was substantially better breaking in return for the losses. With your frame that's simply not the case. If I actually rode something other than my ten year old Kestrel, I might be in the market for it.

So because Damon's post doesn't jive with current ST groupthink you accuse him of selling out his soul? Give me a break. Among industry folks that post here's he's consistently been one of the most useful and demonstrated the highest integrity. It's fine to indicate you don't agree with him but to question his integrity is uncalled for, IMHO. But fine, go ahead and chase away the valuable posters so we can all agree with one another in the ST echo chamber.

I think a lot of people on here need to think before they post. He most likely has no idea who Damon Rinard is and why you should trust what he says.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I think you know the saying "......all others bring data" it still applies to Damon and I suspect he will eventually bring it when the time comes, whenever that is

Bump. I like this thread. Really interesting.

When a disc-brake tri bike beats a P-5 or Speed Concept in the tunnel, the shit is going to hit the fan.

Can't wait!

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Or going down a hill into a corner. (Emphasis added.)

You might also like to control exactly how much speed you lose in that situation, and where you lose it.

People generalize from their specific use-case, and their flat part of the world to the rest of it.

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'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'

I was out riding my UP on some technical single track and offload trails yesterday and I loved the modulation that my discs and wide tires gave me, but then I've always loved discs off road. In 2000 I put discs on my FS Kona, because off the pavement the control (especially when you're creeping along picking lines on a rough descent) is paramount. But, while folks seem to argue that disc brakes are a "need" on the road I still don't buy it. Your tires are the limiting factor for stopping not your brakes. Keep telling yourself that some new tech is going to allow you to brake harder and later in a descent and you're only asking to go off course. Now, if you're going to ballon up your tires to address the real issue (available traction) then you might have a case for the advantages of disc brakes. As far as the weather concerns, well, there discs are better at clearing water than rim brakes even on something like Mavic's excellent exalith. But then again I've never been left wanting in the braking department when running the proper equipment for the conditions.

All that being said, if disc make you feel better about yourself, make you believe you will ride safer, and lead you to think that they are a faster setup than rim brakes then go for it. I have no desire to bend anyone to my argument and it's funny that there are so many on here that really think there is some conspiracy to force you to discs. Reality is some just feel that disc are a cooler tech and their perceived qualities make them a better option. Manufactures are merely responding and using it's marketing arm to help along those on the fence. The diehard won't be along for awhile until they have no other choice.

Full disclosure: I do not live in a predominately flat area, I do ride down hills, and I do some Time Trials where braking is needed.

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My YouTubes

Campag beat them too it!

Or two small ones on the front where you've not much area to hide them and one on the rear where you've already encountered turbulent air

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era

Fair points, but in terms of a pure road bike, those things are either there already (rm wear) or not a huge issue (tire width..if you are going over a 28 on a road bike, I would venture to say that you are choosing the wrong style of bike).

Glad to see you spec 'do those brakes, though...how did it sell / how did dealers receive it?

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

The bikes were recalled. They booked well for a $5000 road bike. Dealers received mechanical caliper brakes and a few hundred dollars and apologies.

-SD

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https://www.kickstarter.com/...bike-for-the-new-era