The Magura brakes have a relatively short travel. I think this is an artifact of design - for logical and illogical reasons. One logical reason is that they could easily generate way too much force if they had a lot of travel and you ran them "tight." as Tom A. said, I don't think there is a GREAT hydraulic rim break yet. But basically, from fully closed to fully open, the Maguras do not move as much as other brakes. As a result - and this is consistent talking to most other folks I know who run these brakes - most people tend to run them "looser" on race day (and good conditions) out of concern about potential for brake rub. On a more technical course or for training or in the rain, I tend to run them tighter - meaning pads hit the rim more quickly.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Understood and agreed. That's what I was suggesting by "early data" -- not just that the data were premature, but that the products from which they were derived were as well.

Ah, gotcha.

That is kind of troubling and amazing that the maguras brakes have these issues. That would be a deal killer for me. Someday you gotta try one of these, no such problems:

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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Funny you mention that. I very strongly considered using Craig's brakes on my Dimond. I spoke with him right after he launched that brake, and he came up to Dan's to meet us. We all live pretty close to each other. Dan and I encouraged Craig to reach out to various bike companies to try to OEM that brake or to at least have it as a target "aftermarket" upgrade. Basically, to do exactly what Nick Salazar has done with the Tririg Omega.

Unfortunately, Craig basically was exclusively focused on competing with ZeroGravity and AX and Tune on the whole "it's super light!" category and had absolutely zero interest in trying to re-work the EE into an aero caliper that would work for TT bikes. It's too bad, because I think he would have sold about 100x as many brakes if he had embraced what that brake clearly "wanted" to be - a TT brake - as oppose to what he had decided it "should" be - a weight-weenie brake. For example, I told him to make a dual-post version of that brake for bikes like the Transition (which would have then worked on the new Shiv). No interest. Why he wanted to take on an absurdly small niche rather than competing with Tektro on a market that is substantially larger is beyond me... I still think he could do well with some slight modifications to that brake. But not if he doesn't have the interest. The market was never going to come to him, regardless of what he might have wished/believed...

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

But Mat, what if we embed something like these in the frame and fork somewhere? i.e. take advantage of the possibilites of hydraulic routing? Wouldn't those same leading edge improvements be possible?



This isn't necessarily directed at you, but I find it interesting that a lot of people are willing to give current disc brake offerings a "pass" with the caveat that there's a lot more development to go on the technology as it applies to road applications. Honestly, the SAME can be said for mechanisms that use the outer edge of the rim as the braking disc. Yeah, it's been done for a LONG time...but to think that there are no technological improvements to go there as well is short-sighted.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

That is odd.

In any case, tthings are gonna change big time now for this brake design:

http://www.canecreek.com/...ip-with-eecycleworks

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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To be fair, I've never had my hands on one of these (they are quite expensive IIRC)...but there's something about all those pivots that makes my mechanical engineering brain cringe a bit...the same thing happens when I look at MTB rear suspensions that are basically a single-pivot swingarm with a bunch of additional rockers and pivots to do the shock actuation ;-)

Hopefully the Cane Creek collaboration will drop the price of them a bit too...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Hi Tom,

Right, no cables on the rim brakes. The disc calipers' hoses were included however.



Straight up average, but it's a pretty consistent offset across the sweep.

Cheers,
Damon

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

That's encouraging. Maybe Craig finally got tired - after five+ years - of selling to the niche. And also may have been forced to confront the reality that more and more and more bikes are integrating their brakes - especially at the highest end - and that an already small niche was shrinking even further.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Damon,

What causes more drag, the rotor or the caliper?

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Ha, good one. That was step 1 when I was in Magura's office. Too much frontal area.

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

I could tell you, but then I'd have to ...

;-)

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

This is all I can offer :)

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Literally just nuggets in a wallet?

https://www.reddit.com/...nuggets_in_a_wallet/

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

X3.

A happy family.

I was about to detail exactly what our good friend Publius wrote. But I'll just pile on to say I agree entirely with every word written. How about - lets wait and see? We're debating and we don't even know what the industry has done!

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"One Line Robert"

hahaha. Hurry up and release a disc brake tri bike and amaze us all with the drag numbers!

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

A miracle must have occurred today. wsrobert, PubliusValerius, and BryanD are all in agreement. Specialized's Cam Piper and Cannondale's Damon Rinard tease us with disc brake tri bikes being faster. Zipp releases a Super 9 Disc with disc brakes. If you are not excited, you should be!

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Well, not EXACTLY that...but the general concept. There would need to be a slight "re-imagining" ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

I had Magura brakes like that on my Slingshot MTB way back in the 90's. They are basically rectangular "brake blocks" where the brake pad moves sideways from the brake base when you squeeze the brake levers. Pretty simple really.

A few years ago, I posted here somewhere my idea that Magura should develop a standard hydraulic "brake block" that could be bolted into frames and forks. Frame manufacturers could design their frames and forks so that the transition from the frame/fork to the brake blocks was fully seamless and integrated. See, for example, the Trek Speed Concept fork below.

For the rear brake, frame manufacturers would be free to design their frame to integrate the brake block wherever they saw fit... behind the BB in the chainstays, in the seatstays, etc.

But I guess there is a reason I'm not a bike frame engineer.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

Interesting; I had that idea too. I think the Cheetah Cat might have developed it? Using hydraulic hose makes convoluted routeing much easier, without losing efficiency.

Also, with disc brakes, the Culprit bike could have designed an aero Lefty(c) style 'fork' for improved performance. With fast, fat tyres providing suspension, the fork could be very stiff. No need to take the wheel off for punctures either.

My thoughts as well...and that's also (the Speed Concept integration) what I'm talking about when comparing "best in class" versions of brake integration, in regards to rim brakes and aero drag.

So...people are telling me that those 2 little brake pads on that fork cause more drag than a braking disc, a disc caliper of some sort, and extra spokes in the wheel?

I'm not buying THAT until I'm shown the tests and results...

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yes, exactly, and that seems an issue just for the front brake. On the rear, you could stick the brake blocks behind the BB in the chainstays and I have a hard time thinking the wind would see much of the two brake pads sticking out back there.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

I've seen an EE aero brake on Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/...by=twohubs&hl=en

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

I found the post, here it is:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=4847100#p4847100

My predictive powers are poor, but I still think it's a good idea.

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

Its been funny watching this thread develop.
When Parlee launched their Disc TT bike (2 days ago !!) the vast majority of feedback was negative
Now that Zipp launch a Disc Disc, and some very smart people allude that a TT Disc bike might not be a car crash aerodynamically, and all of sudden the pendulum swings and people want to be on board the next P6 or Cannondale TT bike.....
Feels we as an audience are very quick to judge (either way)