gabbiev wrote:
Tom A. wrote:
Power13 wrote:
gabbiev wrote:
Dilbert wrote:
leegoocrap wrote:
Why are you making disc aero wheels?
BECAUSE YOU NEED THEM
But why do we need them?
BECAUSE STOPPING IS A PROBLEM IN TT'S AND TRI'S.
Why are you yelling?
BECAUSE THIS IS THE EXXXTREME SOLUTION TO THAT PROBLEM ATHLETES HAVE BEEN HAVING FOR YEARS!!!
Tri isn't a growing sport. And everyone in it has already bought wheels. How do we sell them more wheels?
HEY I HAVE AN IDEA!
I tend to agree with this.
In over 10 years doing product development in the bike business, never once did I ever hear anyone come up with any idea to make products that nobody wanted just to sell more stuff. Not a single time...this myth / perception of grand puppet masters in the bike business moving consumersa round like pawns is just that....a myth.
Product guys in the bike biz just want to make cool bikes....be it a $300 entry level MTB or a $3K tri bike. They want to come up with ideas / product strategies that meet their customers demands (both consumers and dealers) as well as potentially sway them over to their bikes form the competition.
I'm 99% sure that I came out with the first disc-brake cross bike back @ the '99 Interbike show. It wasn't because we were trying to force new stuff down consumers' throats, it was because we thought it was a cool idea and no one was doing it yet and we could use it to bolster our exposure at the show. pretty simple.....no massive conspiracy.
So...you're admitting that you produced something just to "stand out" (whether it worked better for the purpose or not) in the hopes of selling things? Got it ;-)
My problem is when the "cool idea" is half-baked and not well thought out, and then the bandwagon effect starts because people don't want to be seen as "behind the times" in their product offerings :-/
Bandwagon effect--you summed up what was to be my response.
Yes, a lot of this is consumer driven--just need to see the posts in this forum. Consumers fell in love with carbon; thought it would be great to have all carbon wheels, which *have* to be better than alloy rims/carbon wheels because, well, they are all carbon. Manufacturers saw an opportunity to reach a market, spent a lot of time figuring out how to make a material work in an inappropriate use situation, and consumers were shocked that their braking was poor. 'Round the same time, frame manufacturers began burying rear brakes underneath bottom brackets, overly complicating cabling, for little gain. For triathletes, a crappy wheel was made even crappier by poor rear brake placement. So, discs, of course, is the natural solution to all of these woes.
I think that poorly informed consumer belief drove these "innovations" and companies naturally tried to capitalize on this interest. The sorry thing about it all is that a simple, very functional system is being replaced by a less functional and more complex system.
And did anyone notice that the new Zipp disc disc uses the same rim as the Zipp non-disc disc? What about the opportunity that disc brakes offer in optimizing rim profile? Seems like Zipp essentially slapped a disc brake hub in their standard wheel (not a whole lot more complicated than that, conceptually).
Sorry for the ramble. As for product differentiation--fine. Look where it got us with BB standards. Change is good, but for god's sake, make it sensible.
@ Tom A. - Nope, not admitting anything like that. The bike we did was prototype and never meant to go into production. It was a complete Frankenbike. As noted, we did it to raise our exposure at Interbike. But pssst...dirty little secret - consumer product companies make money by selling things and they need to find ways to get the attention of consumers. That is not, however, a conspiracy to force new technologies on people.
@ gabbiev - Woe to the company that ignores consumer demand in favor of what they deem to be "better". The world of consumer products is filled with failed products that were technically "better" than the competitors, but they weren't want consumers wanted. I know I have made products that were "better" than the competition, but because they did not meet consumers' expectations, they failed.
Matter of fact, I am going through a similar issue right now...we have been working on a new consumer medical product adn our customers want to have BT control for it. It is just a stoopid idea....they can control the unit easier and faster through the buttons that are already on it. Why bother reaching into your pocket, finding your phone, unlocking it, scrolling through your apps, opening the app and then adjusting the device. Clearly, just reacing out and pushin buttons is easier and simpler.....but it won't matter. I'm either gonna need to add BT functionality or walk away form the product idea. *shrugs*
Personally, I think the *right* solution in this debate is hydraulic rim calipers. What people are really "in love" with is not the discs, it is the light tough and action of hydraulics. people are focusing on the mechanism and not the technology. But no one wants to hear that....consumers are demanding discs and suppliers are being forced to respond. Go see how many companies spec'd the SRAM Red hydraulic rim calipers....I don;t think any did. Not because it wasn't a "better" solution (it was) but because consumers weren't going to buy them.
Again, there is no massive conspiracy to force people to buy new stuff. Bike companies are more concerned about getting consumers to buy their stuff over the competitions' than trying to come up with massive schemes to buy new stuff.
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