I believe that there is no longer an aero penalty on the clinchers vs tubulars. My vote is go for the CCs.

I have been riding carbon clinchers for 3 years now without issue.

Clincher. Easy.

hey bryan!

great race in st. george!!

I recently debated this same q, back and forth for several months, but I was coming from clinchers.

I thought of getting tubular because I felt I could change a tubular faster in a tri, as the aluminum brake track zipps are a bit of a pain to change.

Well, the clincher firecrest are so easy to get a tire on you do not even need a tire iron.

that may not be a concern of yours, maybe more of ride quality...., with latex tubes they ride just as nice as tubular.....

with latex tubes, installion is critical--dont use the zipp rim tape. after several searches on the ST forum and advice from a ST user (bobby11, i believe) I bought Stans Yellow Rim tape--stuff is really good, 2 layers worked really well--much better than the zipp tape--. ive had the zipp tape and other tape curl up and cause latex to find its way into spoke holes....

i rode them for the first time monday--they are nice!!

My thoughts are if it's only a race day wheel set then I'd go tubular but if you plan on racing & training on the same wheels than carbon clinchers for sure.

I've used the newer caffe latex aerosol spray for fixing small holes in my tubular race wheels and it worked great, it doesn't have any ammonia in it and won eat away at latex tubes. It took me about 15-20 seconds to spray and be on my way. For bigger holes it might not work as well.

Cheers

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"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

Bryan, I know everyone will same no brainer to clincher, but there are some advantages to Tubular that you have pointed out in the past like being able to ride the tubular into transition with slow leak/partial flat. Angela Naeth just did that for the final 10k this past weekend while setting a St. Croix bike course record.

I am having the same debate myself as my old Stinger 60 + Zipp 808 is in need of an upgrade.

Dev

Agreed. Clincher. No real aero disadvantage, tires/tubes are cheaper, easier to completely repair a flat, no stupid glue. Better all the way around in my opinion.

Not to highjack the thread but I did the same having bought a front FC808 in March and previously had the old 808- being lazy I never did much homework on how much of an improvement this was suppose to be.

Do you know off hand, what is the expected time savings over say a 40k TT at 40kmp (FC808 vs old 808).

They are also suppose to be better in cross winds vs the old 808 from what I read, but I personally have not found them any better in gusty cross winds from the old one in terms of handling.

The answer depends entirely on the yaw angle and which older 808 you had. If it was tubular then the older one would be faster at low yaws, if its the clincher, I don't think I've ever seen Zipp show WT results for old clincher rims vs tubular rims.

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Styrrell

Interesting point about handling. I have a Stinger60 front and have been looking at going to FC 808 front based on statements about superior handling. I've been able to handle the 60mm rim quite well in very strong gusts and sidewinds (I'm 136-140 depending on race), but was not totally sure about jumping to 808 FC front. Maybe I should just go to 404 FC front.

Tks. 2005 808 tubular vs 2012 FC808 tubular. Sadly, I do not feel like there is any difference, so was hoping to hear otherwise.......the old one was a bit worn out - my justification :)

Its a tough call. I've generally had no issues on the old 808 in high winds, however I could not ride it well in "gusty cross winds" like you get up in Hawi for example. From what I have experienced with the new FC808, the cross winds seem to catch it the same. It might be a faster wheel for other reasons, but handling in cross winds seems to be no better. I'm 170lbs. I think you would find 95% of your riding in most places you would have no issue on an 808 but bring a 404 to the big island !

In case you haven’t decided yet, really the only real advantage to tubs anyone listed is the one Dev pointed out. Probably even difficult to list as an advantage…. Ride on tub rim for 10km = 20-odd min of riding. Change clincher plus 10km of riding = 20-odd min of riding; unless you plan on flatting well inside 10km from end of bike, not much to be gained!!!!
My main point, however: A friend recently bought a set of 808 FC tubs - tubs on recommendation from slightly old school bike shop owner – there are some that simply don’t recognize how close good clinchers are these days….. 4 rides later (TT and TT training rides – well under 100mi of use), he flats, so I change the tub for him. Tearing off this (poorly glued – there goes any presumed rolling advantage) otherwise perfectly nice looking and very expensive tyre, throwing it in the bin and replacing it with another exactly the same almost brought tears to my eyes.
Sure you can try to repair tubs, but it’s a long way from a good solution, and not an exact science. It’s just not worth it, for the love of god, and the (relatively small) cost of an awesome latex tube, get clinchers!!!!

Actually, that happened to me at a Half IM. I rode 6 miles on a front flat 808 tubular and still set a bike course record and won the race and the wheel was fine. So that appeal resonates with me. As far as tossing a tubular, I change them every year even if they are only used 5 or 6 times in races, so the cost of replacement doesn't bother me either.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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My vote is for CCL! I'm pretty sure that because of the wider profile you can even get away with pumping the tires to a lower PSI without worrying about pinch flats. Go borrow a CCL from the boys at Tribe and see how you like the ride quality. They have 808 and 404's FC CCL.

Carbon Clincher all the way.

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I would go sew up for the exact same reason. Much safer in the event of a flat. Plus, if you did get a flat on a CC and you hammer away at it in the heat of the moment I can see fractures on the sidewall - no such concern with a tubbie. Only time I have ever damaged a rim was during a race repair, and with borrowed Alu tire levers.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I'd love to quantify this a little more. What speed did you average over that last 6 miles?

I am not answering for Brandon - but I have ridden flat tubulars at damn near full speed for 20+ miles. They more often than not will just flatten and you ride a flat like a car - not on the sidewalls like on a clincher. You do need to be careful, watch for bumps and corners, you can however ride a flat tubular with much more safety than a clincher.

If I was at a race and got a flat tubbie 10 miles or less from the finish line - I will take the time penalty for the added resistance before I am going to take 3 or so minutes to change it.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

That's pretty non-specific. I've got no experience riding a flat tubular, so I'm genuinely curious what that really means. He averaged 24 mph for that race (I read his RR). If he averaged 21+ while riding the flat, then he saved time. But if he was closer to 20, he probably gave up the time it would have taken to change it. If he was closer to 18 or even lower, he almost certainly lost time over changing it.

I was moving pretty well, certainly 20+. I just had to be careful around corners but otherwise it wasn't too bad to be honest. When a tubular goes flat there's still a lot of rubber and material between the edge of the rim and the road, more so then a clincher. And it squashes down flat and provides a ridable contact patch with the ground.

My only other issue with clinchers is are they more prone to small puncture flats then tubulars and can they be refilled effectively using a sealant like Hutchinson? And if the sealant hadn't worked, I would have been stranded for more then 3min possibly...likely.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

I am not going to argue this point. But, IMO if you get a flat and can ride the tubular at any speed you have a savings. If you keep your tempo and your head about you - as opposed to getting off the bike, stressing about the tire, getting the new one on (in), filling it and on and on and on - the psychological gain can never be measured on a clock.

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it is all about?

I agree and having been there know of what you speak.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

You mentioned on FB you have a zipp disc that is a tubie, so just stick with that.. Easier to not have to carry a tube and a tire..

Certainly part of the consideration.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project