I think this is where Wurf is smart too though. With Wurf’s run I don’t think it makes sense to race less and “save it” for Kona. I think his run is just undeveloped enough that it makes a lot of sense to go race a ton and make good money. I don’t think he would gain much by going all in on proper Kona prep. He’s just not got the run yet to take that step *right now*.

Maybe in a few years but at his age and development that’s a long shot. Again unless they get the 1 in 50 days of “tough” weather.

So I think Wurf’s just about nailing the pro tri career of taking advantage of his strengths with some what 70 odd LC events around the world while also showing good improvement each year in Kona. But going from top 10 to podium is still another level that I don’t think he has and thus would be foolish imo to basically build his season around Kona only.

I’ll rely on you veteran guys who may know this info but I don’t know how easily top pros have taken an run like Wurf’s and actually developed it to podium level results in Kona. He’s got what a 2:52 IM run PR and 3:06 Kona run? And yes he’s relatively new to tris but at some point the gains sorta become really really hard to get once you’ve maxed out the low hanging fruit. So even a 2:57 Kona goal is a hard af ask imo.

So I think Wurf’s doing it right by maxing out his race results and $$ with his weapons in our sport that most of time races aren’t very deep.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 
The photo shows Don has a more classic kona success morphology but Wurf has way more surface area, which a scientist (maybe Frodos dad) claimed is a huge advantage for cooling off while racing in the hawaiian heat

What photo? Heat dissipation is proportional to surface area, but I don't think Frodo`s dad came up with that. That pretty much why you cut your potato in two and why the moon in geological inactive whereas the earth still is active. It is also the reason why Froome for instance would be "the perfect Kona racer" with low body weight a lot of surface area. If he could swim and run of course ;)

I meant the photo of them biking a few posts earlier

cutting a potato increases the relative surface area but reduces actual size so it doesnt slow down the cooking rate?

If Cam runs 2:35 in London he will tank his entire season. He won't recover from that for 8 weeks minimum at his "heavy" weight at around 160 lbs. 160 lbs athlete doing a 2:35 is going to break his legs way beyond his relative "jogging times" in Triathlon. Cam would be much better off doing some Olympic tris and trying to get his run split sub 32:30 if he wants to run fast in Kona than rip a "fast" London Marathon is probably the single worst thing he can do....he would be better off doing his fast marathon after Kona in Dubai in January or something like that, not mid season in the Kona build.

Who can go to his front door and revoke his London Marathon entry! if he want's he can do a 2:35 hrs 42.2km row instead, but dammit Cam don't run a 2:35 marathon.

I doubt he will go all out seeing as he is racing Australia as well. I could see him going 90% and running 2:40-45, just to get a feel for running fast-ish, which wouldn't take too long fo him to recover from.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I smell a bet brewing!!!!!!

I have Wurf to podium AND eventually win it. We need to discuss timeframe we are working with and odds (because you're definitely going to give some up a bit).

Couldn't agree more. Call me crazy, feel free to bring up all the political BS Ironman put him through but Pete Jacobs career tanked the same year he decided to run 2:40 at the LA Marathon. I ALWAYS felt that was one of the reasons things slowly fell apart. He talked about "jogging" a 2:40 but even for him, on that course, that is too much too early. Considering he continued on training per usual after, that was the end of his year.

LOL. That was funny. Clap, clap.

Name the odds and time frame and you're on.

ETA: Although this is actually a bet I wouldn't mind losing as I like Wurf. I dont like his chances in Kona but I think he does the professional tri career right.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

PM Sent.

I'm a degenerate gambler, and bets just make stuff more fun anyways. lol

rubbish.
i ran my first marathon last year in 2:40 with strong winds (not tail) at 156 lbs for the win.
i was pretty much straight back into tri training afterwards and it happens to have been exactly 8 weeks later that i ran a HM PB of 1:14 for another win.
i'm more of a runner than Wurf who is firstly a cyclist, but i'm not a pro with the training volume he has so i don't see why he couldn't match my performance and recovery.
everyone is different though...

i actually agree though that he would do better to focus on improving his run speed/economy with shorter/faster racing but if this is what motivates him then all power to him. as i said earlier, i think he enjoys the travel and volume, he seems to be making a living out of it so i'm envious rather than critical

rubbish.//

yes, a marathon during the year may or may not be a detriment to the rest of the season, just depends on how one runs it. For examples, if he were to just run a steady 6 flat pace, and be fresh enough to descend the last two miles are run 5;30's, that would be a race he would quickly and easily recover from in a few weeks. Certainly he could be back in the pool and on the bike within days doing easy stuff.


On the other side, if he goes out in 5;30 pace for 15 miles, blows up at 22, and hobbles in to finish the same exact time as above, it will be much, much longer to recover, and may well indeed impede his season later on..


I will assume he will shoot for the first example and will be fine later on. As you pointed out, you and many others have done this, myself included. Now if it were just weeks or a month or little more out from Kona, then I would say big no no. But this far out, should be no big deal, and worst case scenario is he loses some money making opportunities short term because he has to bail because of a longer recovery time..

OK, I can buy if he does that, he is fine later, but I THINK he'll end up overcooking the first 10 miles because for a guy with his engine it will feel like jogging. then miles 10-16 that jogging feeling will feel like running even though the pace won't change. By mile 14 its going to start to feel stressful, but he's going to be perplexed why such a slow pace is starting to feel stressful and keep going at that "slightly overcook pace". By mile 18 it will feel like a full on sprint and the magic number he has in his brain is going to be slipping away, but he's going to be tempted to push through...he's going to be thinking...."I HAVE to be able to jog 2:35 in an open marathon" if I want to go open marathon + 15 minutes in Kona.....so now he pushes though testing and before you know it, the hole for the rest of the season is being dug deep. By mile 24, he's on track for the magic time, but has already added in this single day 15 minutes to his Kona run split.

He would be much better off doing a bunch of Olympic tris and aiming for 18 + 55 + 32 + 2 ~ 1:47/1:48

Wurf is pretty disciplined, and coached to the minute. If he was told to do a certain pace, he'd do it.


That said - he's currently in Tasmania, so he's not running in London this weekend.

I would love to see this thread renamed "CAM WURF CANNES AND DOES DELIVER..."

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

You win the thread.

So Cam just crushed the course record at IM Australia, breaking both the bike course record by 5 min and the overall record by 8 min after a 2:50 run.
If he does this in Kona but with a front pack swim he will def podium.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

He broke the course record by less than 1 minute.

But that bike course surface is extremely shithouse. He did very good. And was stopped spewing up for a while at kilometer 40.

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If he 'only' broke bike course record by 5 min, I wonder if he is experimenting with biking less hard to run more hard. His bike at Cannes was not really that much faster than Don also.

Bingo! He said just that in the post race interview.

His Strava suggests that his output was pretty much on par with most of his IM distance races; he normally averages around 300 watts, today was slightly up on Hawaii '18 by 5-10 watts or so. I think he's just running better - as mentioned previously, would have run about 2.48 high if he didn't stop to do a Starky at 40k. I don't think anyone would have dreamt he'd be in that ballpark 18 months ago. I didn't think he'd go much under 3hrs today - that bike course is pretty tough - dead roads..

How many full Ironman has he done in the last 12 months? Is he up to 7?

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Matt

According to trirating the previous record was 8:14 and he broke it by 8 min

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Whatever he does, I THINK the faster he runs at IM's now, the longer he will take to recover. Recovery from a 2:50 run is a completely different world from 3:05. I hope he takes more time off between IM's and does some olympic/shorter racing and saves it for Kona.