It was a bike heavy course and Wurfs run was nothing special. A lot of guys were faster and the best runners weren’t even there. Still a very good effort but I still have my doubts if he can compete on regular distances against the worlds elite.

I guess if you want to dismiss Tim Don at 7:40 for the full IM distance as non elite, then that's your choice:

https://www.on-running.com/...ironman-world-record

Bottom line he beat Don (and outran him, after, perhaps, Tim went too deep to the well on the bike).

Breaking news! Ex cyclist wins bike heavy triathlon.

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What's your CdA?

Tim had the slowest run in the top 10, Wurf had the second slowest. Butterfield outran Wurf by 2.5 minutes. I would hold off before I proclaim that Wurf has figured the run out. Tim Don's bike relative to Wurfs is far more impressive than Wurfs run IMO.

I really like Tim Don and his recovery from what looked like a career ending injury has been absolutely amazing. That being said, he has not quite shown that he is back to the “elite” form that he was in 2017 yet. If anything I think he looks great in this race. Wurf was 9th at Kona and Don was 35 minutes back in 36th place

As for Wurf. I personally don’t think he’s a solid podium threat for Kona yet. Bozzone (who I think was coming off an injury) ran him down at Western Australia from ~5 minutes back. That being said, he continues to improve and will play a factor in Kona for sure. It’ll be interesting if anyone can hang on with him on the bike to gap the main pack. And if slows down ‘lets’ people stay with him so he can work with them as well as save some more for the run. But lots of stuff between now an October so no reason to get ahead of ourselves and not enjoy the races until then

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Matt

Was barely 73F. Wurfy's best runs all happen in non-Kona like conditions. If wants to win at Kona he needs to race somewhere that is hot and humid with a good performance. Putting up good performances in great conditions is irrelevant.

Also, Don...came back from a life altering crash, a never gonna be the same type event. He's 41.

Wurf is 35. Give me a freakin' break with these titles.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

I never said anything about Kona. Don had a great bike (look how much faster Don was vs Tyler Butterfield) and Cam held Don off during the run. Both had a great day

Tough crowd

Wurf is still improving his run, and with the lead he had probably wasn’t going all out.

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Let food be thy medicine...

I guess from my side, it was exciting to see both have a good day.

What was really interesting was that Don at 140 lbs when the bike course gets really hilly (watts per kilo course) he can basically bike with the Kona course record holder. When its a watt/CdA course like Kona, Don is less of a bike threat (he's actually off the back in Kona). But there is a cost to drilling the bike and Tim looks like he had a sub par run even given his crash/recovery. He's had better runs since the crash if I recall.

As opposed to what, some 30 foot per mile snooze fest or draft fest?

Like bowling with the gutter guards in place.

Not being able to do 22mph on 200w isn’t fun? Poor baby.

wurf will win kona. He is more driven than most kona pros

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Wurf would need a crazy windy day like the Stadler style Kona 2004 day when even Peter Reid was barely 5 hours. Wurf literally needs 25 minutes at T2 on Lange. This can only happen on a crazy windy day when the lightweights get blown all over the place. Or Wurf's run gets to 2:50 in Kona. If he can run 2:50 he can win on most days in Kona regardless of how little wind there is.

Didn't they basically get off the bike together?

I’m going in on the Wurf bandwagon for Kona too. He’ll always be “in” the race with his swim and bike, but a few years to work in the run and I think he has his day. That’s assuming no burnout or injury, but Wurf seems to enjoy being the heel in the tri world, and I think he enjoys it. Hope he commits many future years.

Looking forward to Wurf @ IM Australia in a few weeks. Honest (slow) bike course should suit him.

I don't have anything against bike heavy triathlons if that's what you're implying.
I'm just saying it's not a surprise that this kind of format suits someone like Wurf. I just don't think it's indicative of him winning Kona or duking it out with the real runners out there.

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What's your CdA?

I feel sorry for those that dont believe in drive

Plus, he's fun to follow on social media. I'm on the Wurf train and hope he continues to crush it!

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https://www.strava.com/athletes/23685202

He has won more Ironmans in the last 3 years than 90% on those on the start line in Kona in the last 3 years.

He isn’t scared of hard work and he enjoys the spot.

Look at someone like Potts. Top guy. Wins heaps. Top 10 kona heaps of times. Trains in a shed. Sanders the same. Deep down there is no way these guys enjoy what they are doing. That are just very good at the sport.

Wurf enjoys what he is doing. Mentally I think he is in a much better spot than a lot of other pros.

My god. Look at his Strava locations. He is training, racing, and living like big time.

He is no mark allen that’s for sure. But yes he could get a bad wind year. His run is coming down.

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His twitter comment on a photo of him & Tim Don next to each other on a climb was pretty funny...

He is looking across at Tim & smiling - Tim looks pretty serious.

Wurf posted: "That's me telling Tim if he follows me on the bike I'll just outrun him"

Let's hope for the big wind year. Wurf needs to talk to Stadler to figure out how Stadler pulled off the high 2004 high wind "order". High wind also comes with more cooling effect on the run. Low wind = more sauna effect on the run (advantage Lange)

A fit Frodeno will leave both Wurf and Lange in the dust.

A fit Frodeno will leave both Wurf and Lange in the dust.

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When's the last time we've seen a "fit" Frodo show up in Kona? 2016?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

He needs to run 2:45, somewhere hot. All of his best runs are in pristine conditions and they aren't "fast" compared to the runners he competes against.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

If it were only that easy.

ETA: He likely "cant" run 2:45 in "hot" conditions and thus in all likelihood Dev is correct in what Wurf's Kona conditions will be needed in order to win.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Meaning? That is just two seasons. One time injured during, one time before the race. Three is a charm. He has been dominant throughout both seasons before kona. Obviously there is no guarantee he can make it healthy to the starting line. But if he does it will take a special effort to beat him for sure. An effort I don’t think Wurf is capable off. Maybe Lnage as Kona suits him well.

Meaning saying a fit Frodo will leave them in the dust is kinda pointless after 2 years of "injury" issues + the start of 2019 with some injuries.

And no I'm not suggesting Wurf can beat Frodo or Lange. I'm saying that a healthy Frodo in Kona will be the 1st time in 3 years and with his current fitness/injury issues, it's kinda a moot point to make.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I would love to see a fit Frodo in Kona. He used up his perfect Kona race in a combo of running like a Kenyan at both IM Frankfurt and 70.3 World's twice last year Frodo had amazing untouchable fitness and performance. He totally dusted Lange in Frankfurt.

On a big wind year, I think Wurf can beat Lange but not a ready Frodo. He's less than 1 year out from being the fastest triathlete in the world in both 70.3 and IM distance (Frankfurt), and his two kona "gap years" aside, I think he can do it.

He's less than 1 year out from being the fastest triathlete in the world in both 70.3 and IM distance (Frankfurt), and his two kona "gap years" aside, I think he can do it.

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But you can't put his "gap years" aside, that's my point. So I'm not saying he can't do what you are suggesting. I'm saying he's not been able to do what yall suggested in Kona for 2 years in a row. Whatever he's done he basically has broken himself back to back years in Kona. And he has what started 2019 with an injury as well?

So can he come back? He probaly can, I'm just saying he's got to be able to showcase his fitness, not sitting on the sidelines while others duke it out in Kona and have people "theorize" what he can do.

ETA: Especially "gap years" that were created by injuries. At some point injuries start to add up, so it doesn't really matter what a "fit" top athlete will do. It's what the reality is right now can do. If you can't stay healthy to make the big dance, it's irrelevant to say what you can do when "fit" at a certain point.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Don't forget that Stadler was a legit runner when he wanted to be. Marathon PR was 2.29 and ~29 min 10k PR IIRC.

I just don't see it then. If he's not going to race hard conditions weather wise and course wise...say Lanzarote and post a solid half-marathon on the bike I see a guy who's mostly at the back end timeline of a career vs. a Lange who is three years younger or a Sanders who is 4 years younger.

That doesn't even count all of the other young guys in the sport that are coming up. His bike is great, but for it to truly be weapon it's gonna be one of the worst Kona days in a long time as far as wind is concerned...but somehow still cool for him to hammer his run.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Skipper and Wurf 1-2 at Kona

Same here. What a great guy!

I don’t think anyone sees it thus the whole “perfect” hard wind day for him to even have a chance.

But I think the issue is this. At the end of the day Wurf has to eat just like every other pro. This is a sport that only a few minority can cherry pick their schedule to prepare for best Kona performance. The rest have to race to win $$, and that may mean their prep isn’t perfect or not putting them in best Kona position w respect to weather. It’s just not a sport that can allow that for most of its pros.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Frodo is too old now. Won’t win Kona again. Too many reasons why. Old. Family. No dying desire. Same with sanders. Zero chance now. Younger guys want to way more and will trynat any cost.

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This is why the Frodo situation is funny.

He does not need to win every race that he shows up at. He can sandbag all year (like Macca in 2010) and just peak in a timely manner for Kona.

Frodo was on fire at Oceanside, Frankfurt and 70.3 World's last year....we're talking about being unbeatable form from late March to early September which is a long long time to hold form especially on the running side because you can't hold run form without "shaved and tapered" body composition. Meanwhile Lange was kinda out of shape at Frankfurt and again this year, he was "out of shape" at the Berlin half marathon. But be certain that Lange will show up at Kona for the dance, ripped, shaved, tapered, tanned and ready to roll.

If Frodo just does it for Kona he won't be injured, but it feels like he is a race horse who can't enter a race and sandbag it. From a distance as a fan, I feel he "seems" to have the same "problem" as Chrissie Wellington. When the timing chip goes on, its a world record attempt.

Wurf on the other hand, does not have the risk of the fleet footed guys like Frodo or Lange. he runs "slow enough" most of the time that the wear and tear is not as bad.

NOT saying he wasn't legit, but the best marathon time I know of was 2:32, and 10K PR was nowhere in the 29 range.

wurf's racing schedule is a major red flag for me - the guy travels non-stop and does a ton of long-course racing.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

Google tells me he ran 2.32 in Frankfurt. I swear that he ran 2.29 in Berlin and remember thinking he qualified for trials. Could be mistaken though. I do remember an interview with him talking about his background and he listed his run times. He actually has a running background and had some crazy fast times. Again, can't recall where I saw this though.

Point being, Stadler was not a one hit wonder that went on suicide mission on bike and then trotted the run. He could hammer the bike and still run fast even in the brutal conditions of early 00s. Wurf will win Kona as many times as Steve Larsen did.

I have to ask- do you consider Wurf an actual Kona contender? If not, then I think all Wurf is doing is basically living out the pro lifestyle string until it runs out. He's not going to suddenly run 2:45 in hot conditions like StroBro wants him to do. I think he's simply taking advantage of a very strong bike strength in races that he can make some coin while traveling the world. So I dont think he's over doing it. I think he's taking advantage cus I dont think Kona's in his cards. So I dont think it's very wise to "save it for Kona" in his position. A guy like Frodo or Lange- your damn right you better save your legs for Kona. But a guy who can't break 2:50 in the marathon, no way in hell he's ever going to be near even a real top 5 in all liklihood. He's more closer to top 10 than top 3/5 almost every time he'll race in Kona.

ETA: I think that's a very "fair" assessment yes? I mean Wurf's made HUGE strides in the short time he's come into triathlon. But winning in Kona takes a special breed op top of those racing the 70ish IM events across the globe.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Massive crosswinds on the bike, and Wurf would only need to run ~3hr's because a) he'd come off the bike 10-15 minutes up, and the good runners aren't going to run so fast after a hard ride.

Thats my logic, anyhow...

Stadler was also 1994 World Duathlon champion....5K run, 40K bike 10K run If I recall correctly. you don't win that without the ability to run.

I think Wurf would need 10 min on Frodo and 16 min on Lange to win on a big crosswind day. Wurf 3:00, Frodo 2:50, Lange 2:44....sprint finish. We can only dream. Lionel hops in with a 2:55 run after coming to T2 6 min behind Wurf and gets passed by Frodo coming down Palani and by Lange at the banyan tree.

Dev

Despite I am a wurf fan I think he would need a few minutes more but I support your theory.

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oh, my comment had nothing to do with kona. otherwise i agree with your assessment - horses for courses and all that.

but even setting kona aside, I cock an eyebrow at someone in their mid-30s who travels that much and goes hard and long that often.

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____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/

i would think his long term goal is a podium at kona, he is relatively new to the sport and once you make top ten without being maxed out thats a good stepping stone to podium. so i guess in 2- 3 years time he could be a podium contender.
overall i think he plays a smart game he is very well known for his current level . maybe he races a bit to much but overall i think he doing a lot right . ( and no i did not expect him to make top 10 2018 more like top 15 and of course his bs markteing stuff to win is just bs ... and i prefer people that like mac namee just get on with getting results quietly but then he did not have a bike sponsor last year ...)

I personally enjoy the banter and cockiness Wurf brings, and I do see him having a shot at winning or at the very least getting a podium on even a "normal" wind day in Kona. Since he has shown he can swim front pack, and put 15 min on the runners at least, he just needs to get his run down, which he has, though not enough. His run in Cannes was pretty good, and if he can hold 3:45/k for 16k, he is not far from 2:50 marathon shape.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Long term goal at age 36? He is going to peak at age 38/39?

Yes. A lot of Kona winners have been in the back half of their 30s. Alexander won last at 38. Frodeno threw down possibly the best half distance performance ever last year at 37, improving his off bike run best by 2-3min (not easily comparable I know, but still).

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Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

That should help him run faster, as long as he maintains cadence

Who is the oldest first time winner?

I don't think he's gonna suddenly run 2:45 at all. That's gonna take some work. As others have said...he travels a whole freakin' lot while doing all of this high volume training...which for the most part seems to go against the grain of all those that are on the podium. PJC stated guys like Potts or Sanders train in a shed...well Andy is 42 and just enjoying this thing like Crowie. Can still compete at a high level on any given day. Does Sanders not enjoy training or enjoy life? I don't get that vibe at all.

I'm just looking at Wurf's one weapon, and it's not even close to enough. Yeah we could say Lange is just a runner...but his swim and bike are decent. It's not like he rolled in at #50 on the bike and ran him down at the end. He ran him down early and wouldn't be able to do that without a decent biking ability.

So in the end I guess you could say I don't think Wurf is a Kona podium contender given the strengths of the field, but he can make it interesting and win a ton of races in between.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Absolutely his swim and run will improve as he is not close to his max. And I guess we agree his bike is in a good place but even there he has maybe a couple of minutes. I don't expect him to slow down on the bike the next 4 years.

Now we agree had he started tri 3years earlier he could likely have become better than he will become now as he did start a bit to late but nonetheless his swim and run will improve ( have a look at his pre kona swims last year and the year before I think he was the pro that improved his times the most) he is still quite inconsistent in the open water but he has shown a few good swims as well and with experience that will get better.
Likewise are his run times coming down.

Craig Alexander at 35. Frodeno, McCormack and John Howard (1981) tied at 34.
Most first time winners have been around 30, with a few notable exceptions in the earlier parts of their late 20s (26,27).

This doesn't prove or disprove anything though. Howard came through in the very early years before the men were doing sub 9. Frodeno switched from short course a bit later than normal, but was also perhaps a late bloomer in ITU. McCormack took a long time to figure it out, and Alexander was a late bloomer, only achieving international success in his early 30s.

Wurf is coming from a high international level at two other sports and has been a life long performance athlete, and is only a few years into his triathlon career. I agree that given the right conditions, he could at least podium. Chris Lieto did it with a main (not front) pack swim, a best-in-class bike and a sub par run (never went under 3:00 in Kona) as did Torbjørn Sindballe (albeit with a slightly better run).

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Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

I guess the real question is, what does Wurf need to run in order to "hang on" for an win and/or podium. And how does he get there on the run.

2:50 roughly as the slowest he can run and podium? And that's a 2:50 in Kona*

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Let's use the facts 9.30 min down on podium this year
Maybe 2 min swim improvement possible in next 2 years
This year was runner year so maybe 2 min he can get there if they slow down more than him with a bit more wind
So he needs to run 3 and he has avert good podium shot
So that's not unrealistic.
He will not have too run 2.50 for podium. Even on the calmest day possible. Like last year a 2.57 with no swim improvement would have been enough. But his swim numbers do show he will improve in the next 2 years...

Wurf is really new to the running part. He has said before that he has been really cautious with his running in training. This year is the first year that he's really focusing on running in training. I believe he's running the London Marathon on Sunday with a goal to run 2:35-2:40. Once he's able to get the speed in his legs I think we can see some incredible runs from him in races.
The fact that he has been doing all these races in the last few years is because he never went all out in the run. He has never been able to really push in the run leg due to missing the speed. So at the end of an IronMan he relatively fresh which allows him to race a lot.

I'll give you the swim improvement. Interesting to note that he and Butterfield came out in the Kona swim pack all together and then here at this Cannes race, Wurf beat him out of water I believe by 40s.


I think the issue though is that when the "lights" are turned on, Wurf while improving a ton over 2 years of racing Kona still had the 17th fastest run out of the top 20. So whether that's from over biking to a Kona course record, or poor nutrition or whatever reason, he still ran a 3:06. ETA: or maybe that’s the best he can do at this time. Can he improve that?

I think so, but again I think for his career and where he's at and a late bloomer but older athlete- I'd keep on doing what he's doing. Go crush the bike and hold on on the run to a bunch of wins and $$. Because I just dont see a successful podium Kona result on his ledger other than with an "difficult" race conditions. IE- to me he's the "breakaway" guy that's hoping to hold on and will get caught by people and then next thing you know your hoping to finish in the money. I dont think he has it to expect/think he can podium. Now of course he thinks he can and he wants to, all athletes do. And I'm betting his coach/support staff is all building him up to win/podium Kona- they should be that's part of their job. But at the end of the day like a bunch of TdF "contenders", they all have 1 bad stage every single year that leaves them finishing in 6th when everyone thought they had a shot to podium.

So I dont think it's a knock, I think it's kinda the reality of the situation when your run just isn't there. You only have so many cards to play with that hand. So I think Wurf's doing a great professional job of just going out and racing and making bank, and not "banking" on Kona as his end all be all. I would think that would be a foolish step to race only a few times and put it all on the line in Kona. I just dont think the run is there to make that play.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Here is how "his day" plays out in my head: He'll be a front pack swimmer and get on the bike early. The day won't be a calm wind day, but it won't be "horrible", but not good for the lighter bikers. He'll hit the bike hard and put in a gap and the other players will do the "he doesn't have the run, and I can't risk blowing up to chase him", and that will be the separation that he needs that they'll never close. His lead will be big enough that his "improved" run will just be enough and everyone will say "why didn't I let him get away on the bike." It'll have to play out perfectly for him, but I think with an improved run and a field that thinks he can't maintain on the run, he'll have his day. But no matter what with his swim and his bike he'll be "there" at the start of the run, and that alone gives him a shot every time he races...just needs a few things to work out in his favor and it's his. And I think they do. AND I look forward to him on social media after it does!! haha

I basically agree with this...but with him being able to improve enough and pulling it off. But it'll be a fine line and if he plays out just like you stated here, I wouldn't be surprised either.

i think he is running conservatively in most races so can handle that (his bike background means the rest of the volume is fine for him). i imagine he will reduce that race/travel volume and focus on key goals once he has his run dialed in such as to be truly competitive. he would be silly to bank everything on kona when realistically he needs it to be windy to be in with a chance. in the meantime, he is dong very well for himself and enjoying life travelling, training and racing.

one of these days wurf will get his running to the point where he is confident to push it hard in training and then racing. if his first race really going to the wall is a windy kona then look out anyone who gives him a big gap on the bike. i wouldn't be surprised if he held back on showing his running form in the hope of such a day

Let's use the facts 9.30 min down on podium this year
Maybe 2 min swim improvement possible in next 2 years
This year was runner year so maybe 2 min he can get there if they slow down more than him with a bit more wind
So he needs to run 3 and he has avert good podium shot
So that's not unrealistic.
He will not have too run 2.50 for podium. Even on the calmest day possible. Like last year a 2.57 with no swim improvement would have been enough. But his swim numbers do show he will improve in the next 2 years...


Heres the thing that you and a lot of folks here keep forgetting, he will not get faster in the swim and run, not without losing time on his bike. It has been the nature of single sporters that come to triathlon, you can get a lot of low hanging fruit in the other two sports, but eventually at the pointy end, it will cost you in your original sport. No one has been immune from that. I think Wurf will kind of be in the Steve Larsen mold, getting better and better, but winning the bike by less and less. Just take a look at this last race, he barley beats Don on the bike, who by all accounts is not what he used to be, but then runs better than usual. I think he is already transitioning in this regard, and in the end will net him the best places overall. But you will not be able to factor in his old bike splits, and faster swims and runs. As he becomes a more complete triathlete, his bike splits will look more like the normal uberbikers..

I've often wondered how well he would do if he didn't ride so honestly. He should slow down and bike with the rest of the front group so that he gets all of the energy savings of the bike drafting like the rest. Then run balls out.

I've often wondered how well he would do if he didn't ride so honestly. He should slow down and bike with the rest of the front group so that he gets all of the energy savings of the bike drafting like the rest. Then run balls out.

No, that is not a good strategy for him at all. Even if he did what you propose, and is just warmed up for the run and able to run an absolute stand alone PR, he will still lose. His best hope is like a breakaway swimmer, set a pace that is at the upper limits of your competition, at some point snap them off so that at least one other guy(probably several as we have seen) has to pull still wind(and often without a Moto too), and take some time out of the run legs of those that stay in contention on the bike. He has to find that sweet spot of riding hard enough to do this, and run as close to his standalone as his body allows. The best guys lose only 20 or so minutes in Kona, he needs to be in that range. Of course he has to get his stand alone to the mid 2;30's or thereabouts, but that is really not that fast for most pro guys, really run of the mill...

You are absolutely right. I should have written my previous post in pink. I still get annoyed about even top pros who take advantage of the "draft zone." A lot of energy savings even when at legal distances. The best bikers who ride in the wind take a penalty for those efforts.

Jacobs only had one weapon of swimming but developed his run into one of the best in Kona.

He could have broken 40 minutes in Kona in the swim but never did.

It's the same reason I am sure that wurf could break 4 hours in Kona on the bike but then he would run 3:30.

He is riding with plenty in reserve and has said so in a few podcasts.

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40 minutes is a bit optimistic isn't it? Jacobs was not an olympic level swimmer...

Olympic swimmers don't swim in wetsuits

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when did someone last wear a wetsuit in the kona race?

Let's use the facts 9.30 min down on podium this year
Maybe 2 min swim improvement possible in next 2 years
This year was runner year so maybe 2 min he can get there if they slow down more than him with a bit more wind
So he needs to run 3 and he has avert good podium shot
So that's not unrealistic.
He will not have too run 2.50 for podium. Even on the calmest day possible. Like last year a 2.57 with no swim improvement would have been enough. But his swim numbers do show he will improve in the next 2 years...


Heres the thing that you and a lot of folks here keep forgetting, he will not get faster in the swim and run, not without losing time on his bike. It has been the nature of single sporters that come to triathlon, you can get a lot of low hanging fruit in the other two sports, but eventually at the pointy end, it will cost you in your original sport. No one has been immune from that. I think Wurf will kind of be in the Steve Larsen mold, getting better and better, but winning the bike by less and less. Just take a look at this last race, he barley beats Don on the bike, who by all accounts is not what he used to be, but then runs better than usual. I think he is already transitioning in this regard, and in the end will net him the best places overall. But you will not be able to factor in his old bike splits, and faster swims and runs. As he becomes a more complete triathlete, his bike splits will look more like the normal uberbikers..[/quote]

Don't disagree with what you say, but Wurf's power data suggests that he didn't push the bike after he caught Don - and as the pic below (which Wurf captioned "That's me telling Tim if he follows me on the bike I'll just outrun him.. ") suggests - Don likely did all he could to hang on & likely blew as a result.

The thing is he looks controlled on the bike he could push probably a bit more.
Re swim he has a solid background so it's not something he has to work as hard as kienle or sanders or lagoon. Farris said it nicely he said pure watts stadler is still the one that pushed the most watts and my guess would be wurf could match him if he wanted or at least get closer. In the last 2 years he has not slowed down on bike while improving swim and run. So I think he will lose minimal on the bike.
But of course you are right the air is getting thinner and I do not see him winning Kona. But unlike larson he has a much better swim background and talent for that. So I am very sure he will go further than larson.

The other thing he has for him he came 9 th with good knows how many full IM he did so he could certainly peak more by racing more sparingly and put the focus on Kona
I mean this is where Lange and mc namee are extremely smart.

You know what I mean. Jacobs never smashed the swim in any ironman.

It’s pointless leading out of the water by 5 minutes and riding alone and not getting the legal pacing that people like Lange does.

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I think this is where Wurf is smart too though. With Wurf’s run I don’t think it makes sense to race less and “save it” for Kona. I think his run is just undeveloped enough that it makes a lot of sense to go race a ton and make good money. I don’t think he would gain much by going all in on proper Kona prep. He’s just not got the run yet to take that step *right now*.

Maybe in a few years but at his age and development that’s a long shot. Again unless they get the 1 in 50 days of “tough” weather.

So I think Wurf’s just about nailing the pro tri career of taking advantage of his strengths with some what 70 odd LC events around the world while also showing good improvement each year in Kona. But going from top 10 to podium is still another level that I don’t think he has and thus would be foolish imo to basically build his season around Kona only.

I’ll rely on you veteran guys who may know this info but I don’t know how easily top pros have taken an run like Wurf’s and actually developed it to podium level results in Kona. He’s got what a 2:52 IM run PR and 3:06 Kona run? And yes he’s relatively new to tris but at some point the gains sorta become really really hard to get once you’ve maxed out the low hanging fruit. So even a 2:57 Kona goal is a hard af ask imo.

So I think Wurf’s doing it right by maxing out his race results and $$ with his weapons in our sport that most of time races aren’t very deep.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

 
The photo shows Don has a more classic kona success morphology but Wurf has way more surface area, which a scientist (maybe Frodos dad) claimed is a huge advantage for cooling off while racing in the hawaiian heat

What photo? Heat dissipation is proportional to surface area, but I don't think Frodo`s dad came up with that. That pretty much why you cut your potato in two and why the moon in geological inactive whereas the earth still is active. It is also the reason why Froome for instance would be "the perfect Kona racer" with low body weight a lot of surface area. If he could swim and run of course ;)

I meant the photo of them biking a few posts earlier

cutting a potato increases the relative surface area but reduces actual size so it doesnt slow down the cooking rate?

If Cam runs 2:35 in London he will tank his entire season. He won't recover from that for 8 weeks minimum at his "heavy" weight at around 160 lbs. 160 lbs athlete doing a 2:35 is going to break his legs way beyond his relative "jogging times" in Triathlon. Cam would be much better off doing some Olympic tris and trying to get his run split sub 32:30 if he wants to run fast in Kona than rip a "fast" London Marathon is probably the single worst thing he can do....he would be better off doing his fast marathon after Kona in Dubai in January or something like that, not mid season in the Kona build.

Who can go to his front door and revoke his London Marathon entry! if he want's he can do a 2:35 hrs 42.2km row instead, but dammit Cam don't run a 2:35 marathon.

I doubt he will go all out seeing as he is racing Australia as well. I could see him going 90% and running 2:40-45, just to get a feel for running fast-ish, which wouldn't take too long fo him to recover from.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I smell a bet brewing!!!!!!

I have Wurf to podium AND eventually win it. We need to discuss timeframe we are working with and odds (because you're definitely going to give some up a bit).

Couldn't agree more. Call me crazy, feel free to bring up all the political BS Ironman put him through but Pete Jacobs career tanked the same year he decided to run 2:40 at the LA Marathon. I ALWAYS felt that was one of the reasons things slowly fell apart. He talked about "jogging" a 2:40 but even for him, on that course, that is too much too early. Considering he continued on training per usual after, that was the end of his year.

LOL. That was funny. Clap, clap.

Name the odds and time frame and you're on.

ETA: Although this is actually a bet I wouldn't mind losing as I like Wurf. I dont like his chances in Kona but I think he does the professional tri career right.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

PM Sent.

I'm a degenerate gambler, and bets just make stuff more fun anyways. lol

rubbish.
i ran my first marathon last year in 2:40 with strong winds (not tail) at 156 lbs for the win.
i was pretty much straight back into tri training afterwards and it happens to have been exactly 8 weeks later that i ran a HM PB of 1:14 for another win.
i'm more of a runner than Wurf who is firstly a cyclist, but i'm not a pro with the training volume he has so i don't see why he couldn't match my performance and recovery.
everyone is different though...

i actually agree though that he would do better to focus on improving his run speed/economy with shorter/faster racing but if this is what motivates him then all power to him. as i said earlier, i think he enjoys the travel and volume, he seems to be making a living out of it so i'm envious rather than critical

rubbish.//

yes, a marathon during the year may or may not be a detriment to the rest of the season, just depends on how one runs it. For examples, if he were to just run a steady 6 flat pace, and be fresh enough to descend the last two miles are run 5;30's, that would be a race he would quickly and easily recover from in a few weeks. Certainly he could be back in the pool and on the bike within days doing easy stuff.


On the other side, if he goes out in 5;30 pace for 15 miles, blows up at 22, and hobbles in to finish the same exact time as above, it will be much, much longer to recover, and may well indeed impede his season later on..


I will assume he will shoot for the first example and will be fine later on. As you pointed out, you and many others have done this, myself included. Now if it were just weeks or a month or little more out from Kona, then I would say big no no. But this far out, should be no big deal, and worst case scenario is he loses some money making opportunities short term because he has to bail because of a longer recovery time..

OK, I can buy if he does that, he is fine later, but I THINK he'll end up overcooking the first 10 miles because for a guy with his engine it will feel like jogging. then miles 10-16 that jogging feeling will feel like running even though the pace won't change. By mile 14 its going to start to feel stressful, but he's going to be perplexed why such a slow pace is starting to feel stressful and keep going at that "slightly overcook pace". By mile 18 it will feel like a full on sprint and the magic number he has in his brain is going to be slipping away, but he's going to be tempted to push through...he's going to be thinking...."I HAVE to be able to jog 2:35 in an open marathon" if I want to go open marathon + 15 minutes in Kona.....so now he pushes though testing and before you know it, the hole for the rest of the season is being dug deep. By mile 24, he's on track for the magic time, but has already added in this single day 15 minutes to his Kona run split.

He would be much better off doing a bunch of Olympic tris and aiming for 18 + 55 + 32 + 2 ~ 1:47/1:48

Wurf is pretty disciplined, and coached to the minute. If he was told to do a certain pace, he'd do it.


That said - he's currently in Tasmania, so he's not running in London this weekend.

I would love to see this thread renamed "CAM WURF CANNES AND DOES DELIVER..."

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Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099

You win the thread.

So Cam just crushed the course record at IM Australia, breaking both the bike course record by 5 min and the overall record by 8 min after a 2:50 run.
If he does this in Kona but with a front pack swim he will def podium.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

He broke the course record by less than 1 minute.

But that bike course surface is extremely shithouse. He did very good. And was stopped spewing up for a while at kilometer 40.

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If he 'only' broke bike course record by 5 min, I wonder if he is experimenting with biking less hard to run more hard. His bike at Cannes was not really that much faster than Don also.

Bingo! He said just that in the post race interview.

His Strava suggests that his output was pretty much on par with most of his IM distance races; he normally averages around 300 watts, today was slightly up on Hawaii '18 by 5-10 watts or so. I think he's just running better - as mentioned previously, would have run about 2.48 high if he didn't stop to do a Starky at 40k. I don't think anyone would have dreamt he'd be in that ballpark 18 months ago. I didn't think he'd go much under 3hrs today - that bike course is pretty tough - dead roads..

How many full Ironman has he done in the last 12 months? Is he up to 7?

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Matt

According to trirating the previous record was 8:14 and he broke it by 8 min

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Whatever he does, I THINK the faster he runs at IM's now, the longer he will take to recover. Recovery from a 2:50 run is a completely different world from 3:05. I hope he takes more time off between IM's and does some olympic/shorter racing and saves it for Kona.

You sound like an Aussie local. How hot was it during this race??? How humid???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I did the 70.3. The weather was mild I was cold for a while after the swim and the day never got hot. As another poster mentioned the roads are pretty terrible though super lumpy.

After my race wife and I watched the pros do laps of the run course. Wurf was flying but his face looked pale and he was hurting.

The wife enjoyed perving on clayton fettel.

So doing a full ironman every other week is no big deal but it is a straight marathon that puts him in a hole that he never recovers?

Yes and if you don't understand this, then you don't understand the difference between a slow Ironman marathon and a fast open marathon. Now that he is running "faster" IM marathons its also going to hurt more. It's just the physics of fast running. There is a reason why (to my best knowledge) no male pro winner in Kona has run an open marathon in the lead up to Kona (but have run IM marathons). Pro women, being lighter and given they run slower in general have less pounding and maybe could bounce back from an open marathon faster. Erin Baker may have run a 2:39 the year she won Kona and if I recall it was far removed from Kona (like 8 months before). But pretty well no one else does the open marathon + Kona thing.

And Cam is not doing an Ironman every other week. That would be 26 Ironmans Kona 2018 to Kona 2019.

Watched an interview with him over the weekend, last year was about cramming race experience/ learning..he's not planning to race as much this year.

Actually, I do. But I will defer to you because, you know, you are the expert.

LOL, if you are going to be a dick about it thanks for the dickish compliment. But let's get back to the discussion on fast mid year marathons in a kona build.

Let's go through the history list and bring up a Kona winner who ran sub 2:40 in either an open marathon or IM marathon in the summer and backed it up with a Kona win in October. Frodo did that in Roth 2016 but that may be it.

Peter Reid did not do it after his 2:38 at IM Austria. Ralaert got close...sub 2:40 at Roth 2011 and third to Crowie at Kona (ran a lot slower in Kona in 2:47, but a Lange style run gets him the win).Frodo ran sub 2:40 at Frankfurt last year and was injured for Kona. Lange was jogging around Frankfurt (2:47) and on fire in Kona (sub 2:40).

Mark Allen, Luc Van Lierde, Crowie Dave Scott, Lange, Macca....everyone who has run 2:42 or lower in Kona never runs that fast mid year. When Frodo ran sub 2:40 in Roth, he won with a fairly slow run.

I respond to condescension in kind.

We are talking about running a flat out marathon in the middle of the season as a tune up for an IM. Plenty of people do it (I have multiple times, most recently a 2.42 six weeks out before running 3.12 IM. I am a proponent of this combo in fact.). It is not that big of deal. LS' treadmill workouts and or 5x 5k repeats at 16 min are probably harder than a fast marathon. I recall a peak Crowie workout was 13x mile repeats at <6 min pace off of a hard 112 mile bike. Any of the run specialists could do this standing on their head. Cam will, too if he ever wants to be competitive in Kona.

Wait...you are comparing your slow (for a pro) 3:12 IM marathon to a pro needing to run sub 2:45 in Kona (or at least sub 2:50). These are entirely different worlds. Your N=1 does not apply to pro level racing. Neither Crowie's workout nor Sanders' is a race marathon. Different worlds as they have rest in between intervals.

Try to keep up. My point is that running a marathon in the middle of the season is not that big of deal. You made point that Cam running a 2.35 straight marathon would destroy him and ruin his Kona. It won't.

Yeah OK then let's use your N=1 data....he will run 3:12 in his IM marathon based on your data. That's not going to be fast enough.

What?? Cam just ran a 2:48 on the back of holding 306 watts for 180ks but if he ran a 2:35 standalone he would still be wrecked come October?

But Cam doing an IM every other week is no big deal, it is the straight marathon 2 months out from Kona that keeps him from running <3.06 that he did last year. Got it.

Johnny - Thanks for that on-the-scene report!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

triratings is wrong


His time of eight hours, six minutes and 17 seconds just beat the event record of 8:06:39, set by Finnish legend Pauli Kiuru on the old Forster course in 1992.

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I believe trirating is using the record for the current course, which was 8:14, not the '92 record on the old course. Opinions may vary but I think using the record for the current course is best. :)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Especially since the old course was, you know, at another location (Forster) altogether (about 100kms away from Port Macquarie).

Ah thanks, another on-the-scene report, or at least "been to the scene"!!!

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Yeah, Forster bike course was much easier, mostly flat.

The first thing I am going to say, I am most certainly not calling out Cameron Wurf as a doper. To call somone a doper there must be evidence.

With that said, Wurf's close association with past and present professional cyclists under a doping cloud--the now defunct Team Sky and Chris Froome--is disconcerting at best. I truly hope he is not involved in doping. My problem with Wurf is his ongoing close association with top tier cycling professionals and their teams. I find those associations deeply concerning. Mainstream triathlon has not even broached the subject with him.

I am not calling Wurf a doper, but if you are a professional triathlete that routinely trains with Chris Froome and Team Sky--both with a cloud of doping hanging over them--you as a professional triathlete should address the issue or not be surprised when there are more than a few raised eyebrows in anything he does results wise as a professional triathlete. If Wurf does win Kona or a major pro triathlon race, I will have a raised eyebrow unless his associations are addressed.

With that said, he's a wanker and just like I enjoy Starky, I enjoy Wurf being a constant smart ass.

No, you're crazy.

You do realize his history? He was an Olympic rower then cyclist-he has been working on his engine at a world class level for years!

Errrrr, yes you are. Just say it. Or don't would be better.

LOL 😂. You are crazy. If he was a doper he would have won kona already.

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Ironman said he broke the course record. They own the sport and the record books.

If they say he broke the course record. He broke the record.

It’s like the any event in the Olympics. The IOC ratify world records. It’s their sport. Their rules.
Ironman is no different.

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Had my first outdoor ride this weekend and this is my conclusion: I hate bad weather, aggressive drivers and the local Walmart cycling club. Still I hate your post more. A lot more.

Wurf only bike tour de france after 2007, which was pretty much when the high octane hayday had stopped

So you mean he didn’t break the record since previously the event was run on a completely different course but that record still somehow is applied on the new course as well?
Kiuru has the record on the old course and always will, but Wurf has the new record on the new course.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

oh dear

His injury wasn't from Frankfurt so this is a moot point

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Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo

No need to go any further then. You have no basis for anything you said after this. Dumb speculation is dumb speculation.

This neither means he is nor is not a doper. Nor his association with team sky. (To state the obvious)

As far as I can recall, the is no more reason to suspect him then Frodo or Sparky. (2 random guys I picked, so relax all)

Now when you test positive and backdate a TUE and then destroy the field for 7 straight years, that’s a different story....

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

Well, obviously he broke "the record" but I thought we were debating whether it was by 22 sec or by 8 minutes??? Honestly, I have absolutely no dog in this fight. I don't do iron races and I don't even ride the bike anymore but rather I just swim and run. I really don't care but was rather just commenting out of my waning interest in iron races.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

The point being made obviously went right over your head....

that's a pretty poor performance IMO.... perhaps you should open your mind a little to what Dev is trying to say?

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

The point that both cyclists and rowers are notorious dopers..,at least historically and that he’s done both at a high level?

Doesn’t necessarily means he dopes any more than the rest of the tri world (or Less).

It’s also possible I missed your point, which, I will in some way, find a way to live with.

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

Wurf's questionable associations is not dumb speculation it is a fact. He has been very open that he trains with Froome and Team Sky, but has never--to my knowledge--addressed the elephant in the room regarding his involvement with them. So yes I do have some "basis" for asking him as a fan of professional triathlon.

I guess no fan or organization should be concerned about a top tier professional triathlete closely associating and openly training with a professional cycling team under a doping cloud. I am not saying he is doping, but just that he should address the elephant in the room, because he is the one creating it by his behaviur. Furthermore, if Wurf continues to improve he can and likely will win Kona and it will be a major cloud over his win and our sport if he doesn't address it.

But how will addressing it make any difference? What's he going to say?
Yeah I dope, but like my mates Froomie and all, you will never know because our methods are so far ahead of the testing we will always be safe.?
Of course not, no, never, would be all we would hear, same as every athlete, so what would be the point in questioning him, if he is or isn't the answers would be the same.

Sometimes its better to keep quiet having people think you are an idiot rather than open your mouth and remove all doubt. You have just removed all doubt.

 
He Broke the long standing record set on the old Forster Course by 1 minute and the current course Port Macquarie record by 8 minutes. The wind was up on the bike so his result is even more impressive. The Age Group times were notably slower on the bike. I thought Tim Reed was impressive in his performance for 2nd, when Cam started spewing with 2km to go the crowd at the finish line was going crazy! they had a big screen with the live feed, made it a great atmosphere

On the women's race it was disappointing to see Laura Siddale with 2 top age group men at about 100km into the bike, it was only a moment I saw them go past but it was heading into the flats so cant imagine they split up. Considering it was very close with Caroline and she biked solo almost to the end of the bike, these sort of things could be the difference. I wasn't witness to much of the bike so hopefully it was just in that moment she Laura was with the age group men.

I don't think spandexboy's questioning is actually idiotic. It is fact that former team Sky have a cloud of doubt hanging over their heads and there is a very big possibility if they were a smaller, less powerful team with less $ that cloud would have burst a great shit storm all over them by now. Is guilty by association a thing though? I guess in this case it could be more likely as Cam was a member of the team, not just a tag along for a few training rides. Here is the thing though, I have doubts over the pure cleanness of a few of the guys and girls in long course racing, even the short course ITU. I believe there are some who are in, what I would call, that grey zone

He’s coached by Kerrison. That should tell you all you need to know.

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https://twitter.com/mungub

He broke the Ironman Australia record by less than a minute. That's the fact.

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If you want to play semantics, he broke the IM Australia record (by name only) by less than a minute. He broke the current IM Australia course record by 8 minutes. Beating the record of the current course by 8 minutes is a significantly better achievement that the 'name only' record of 22 seconds. Your 'fact' is irrelevant to the significance of the time Wurf posted. The significance is to compare it to recent times on a 'like for like' basis to assess how good of a performance it was relative to the current competition. Your line of thought and argument is useless apart from trying to prove a point that adds no value to the conversation, now run along and go play with your toys.

So, you and spandexboy do not know but it "feels" right? Insinuating that he may be doped because you simplu cannot know for sure that he is not is the equivalent of slander.

The drift or “index of resistance” that I assign is “about” 6-10 minutes per hour. 6 minutes is pretty exceptional, ie from race reports of AG athletes on here I would say that there are only a handful...or maybe 2 handfuls of people who can do that. 10 minutes is really good for a first timer.

I would say 90% of athletes at IM on race day don’t achieve that potential.

Caveats such as conditions/course on the day obviously apply.

Maurice

As a former rower and current cyclist, it's not even in the same realm of notoriety. Rowers are not "notorious dopers." For hard data, USADA has sanctioned 7 rowers since 2009. Cyclists? Around 160. (by my rough count).

East German / USSR rowing back in the 70's-80's. Sure. Today, not that much notoriety. I have no recollection of an Australian rower ever having been sanctioned for doping (there could be, just none comes to mind).

I don't think he ever was a member of the team while a professional cyclist. He is now associated with the team through his coach Tim Kerrison, and has been accepted as a member of the team as a result (going on training camps with them). But not sure if he's actually an official member of Team Sky (can't remember the new name)???

If you want to play semantics, the current course has a different run course at Port than it did when the record you are claiming was set.

I'll go by what Ironman is saying as they run the sport. Not some hero on a forum with zero ability to say their record is more valid than Ironmans.

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Was it under Kerrisons tutelage that a clean Froome beat the Lance/Pantani record up Ventoux by 35 seconds?

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I suppose notorious wrt rowing is wrong. This is entirely heresay, I’ll grant you that, but I had a trainer who was on the Hungarian rowing team (although she may have been Canoe, this was 15 years ago) who swore to me that rowing, canoeing, and kayaking were rife with PEDs. It’s entirely possible this was sour grapes on her part as she never won anything, but she seemed believable.

Your right though, notorious was not the right descriptor.

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Dan Mayberry
Amateur a lot of things, professional a few things.

The IOC doesn't ratify world records.

In athletics, it's the IAAF. If an Olympic marathon course was set that's not compliant with IAAF standards, no records can be set on that course, whatever the sway of the IOC.

I'd be surprised. I used to be coached by a former Romanian and then East German who broadly said, 'if you are the first in my program to take drugs, you will be suspended. And then I will be the man to kill you'.
He'd been in Australia for about 25 years at that point, but the attitude to PEDs in Australia and the UK (the two systems I was exposed to) is hugely against, and tested a lot. On institute programs, I'd normally have had 2-4 OOC test per year, and the occasional in comp - even as a fringe guy who never made a senior NT and wasn't on full whereabouts.

There are national programs I'm suspicious of - hard not to when athletes come out of nowhere and then disappear and when it has affected people who were near and dear to me - but broadly I think it's a pretty boring and down the line sport, in a good way.

correct. The owners of the SPORT ratify the World Record. Not some keyboard hero on slowtwits.

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I thought the Ventoux record was set by Iban Mayo during the Dauphine Libere ventoux stage where they rode the newly paved road (at the time) from Bedouine:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Ventoux

OK, I was correct, it was Mayo's 55:51.

I mainly know/remember because I was at Ventoux a few weeks after that Dauphine to do my own ITT. I'll try to find the results but it was Mayo-Hamiton-Floyd-Lance if I recall correctly.

Froome has not been anywhere close to these times.

Dev

OK I found it in the cyclingnews archive....

Stage 4, June 10, 2004, Dauphine Libere 2004....record prior to that was Vaughters from 1999 in 56:50:

Results1 Iban Mayo (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 55.51.49 (23.202 km/h) 2 Tyler Hamilton (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.35.26 3 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 1.03.09 4 Juan Miguel Mercado (Spa) Quick.Step-Davitamon 1.48.44 5 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 1.57.89 6 Inigo Landaluze (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 2.22.75 7 Jos� Gutierrez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 2.44.09 8 Levi Leipheimer (USA) Rabobank 3.21.18 9 Michael Rasmussen (Den) Rabobank 3.33.38 10 St�phane Goubert (Fra) Ag2R Prevoyance 3.35.81 11 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 3.55.55 12 David Moncoutie (Fra) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone 3.59.03 13 Cyril Dessel (Fra) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.03.20 14 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 4.09.14 15 Jos� Azevedo (Por) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 4.18.24 16 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Credit Agricole 4.37.09 17 Michael Rogers (Aus) Quick.Step-Davitamon 4.44.95 18 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 5.08.52 19 Sandy Casar (Fra) FDJeux.com 5.29.49 20 Victor Hugo Pena (Col) US Postal presented by Berry Floor 5.29.88


Stage 4 - June 10: Bédoin - Le Mont Ventoux ITT, 21.6 kmMayo motors to record breaking Ventoux performanceArmstrong surprising fifth atop Ventoux
By Tim Maloney, European Editor in Bedoin
Iban Mayo (Euskaltel-Euskadi)
Photo ©: CN
On a warm clear day where the le Mont Ventoux lived up to its windy reputation, Iban Mayo (Euskaltel-Euskadi) scaled the Olympus of Provence with a record-breaking performance, pulverized Colorado climber Jonathan Vaughters' five year old record of 56'50" by almost 1 minute and took back the race lead he captured at the Dauphin� prologue on Sunday in Meg�ve. And the much anticipated mano a mano with Mayo and Lance Armstrong didn't materialize as the five time Tour de France champion was once again bested by his bete noir, Le Mont Ventoux.
"I thought Armstrong would be faster; I think it's a big surprise and maybe he had a bad day," said the happy Basque rider who now has command of the Dauphin�. Although he certainly wants to win in Grenoble on Sunday, Mayo is already looking past the Dauphin� to the Tour De France. "I want to recover well before the Tour and keep my fitness and my mental capacity as fresh as possible."
Lance Armstrong (US Postal Service)
Photo ©: CN
Although USPS-Berry Floor team director Johan Bruyneel told Cyclingnews before Stage 4 that, "I don't expect Lance to win today, Mayo is the favourite and maybe Hamilton", Bruyneel told us post-stage that "I'm a little disappointed; not in Lance, but in the differences between him and Mayo. It shows are still not ready for the Tour. Lance did what he could today. Mayo beat the record by almost a minute which is an incredible performance."
Jonathan Vaughters was on hand today to watch Iban Mayo smash his record and told Cyclingnews that "I expected my record to be broken today and I expected Mayo to do it." Vaughters also thought that. "Mayo would put a lot of time into Armstrong and that as a result, (Lance) would be pretty worried."
Armstrong lost five seconds per kilometre to Mayo today, which could be a sign that Lance doesn't have the legs he's had in previous years before the Tour. Or he could be pulling a rope-a-dope on the competition pre-Tour and not showing his game 100 percent.
Armstrong's coach Chris Carmichael recently called Lance "the master of psychological warfare" and his less than all-out performance on the Ventoux , just measured out enough to test himself but not go "au bloc", could fool his adversaries into thinking that Lance was in trouble. But with forty days still to go before the Tour De France's crucial l'Alpe d'Huez mountain time trial, Armstrong must still be considered the overwhelming favourite to win.
Tyler Hamilton (Phonak)
Photo ©: AFP
The runner-up to Mayo was Tyler Hamilton (Phonak), who also beat Vaughters record today. Once again, the Man from Marblehead showed his New England granite will and great legs on his new team. "We're very happy with the way things went today", said the pleased Phonak director Jacques Michaud, as his team put Hamilton in second, Sevilla in third and a total of five riders in the top 13.
As for Hamilton, he seems to be doing well with his new team and is clearly ready for the Tour de France. "It's clear that Mayo is in top form now; he's very strong. For me today, my time wasn't as important as how I felt and I felt good...the sensations were positive. I came here to make two tests, the prologue and the TT and I was second in both of them." As for his former teammate and Gerona neighbour Lance Armstrong, Hamilton said "He's still the favourite for the Tour De France."
With his wife Odessa and new puppy Bandit awaiting atop le Mont Ventoux, Levi Leipheimer (Rabobank) was an solid 8th place, but the Santa Rosa, CA. native was not very happy with his performance today. A disappointed Leipheimer told Cyclingnews that "It's a little bit of a blow to the morale to get caught (by Oscar Sevilla), you know. I didn't feel super today and I really suffered on the steep parts. I have a lot of work to do."
His Rabobank teammate Michael "Chicken" Rasmussen was 9th, 0'12 behind Levi and was also disappointed today. "I was going good at the start, but probably had too much sugar in my bottle since I was getting stomach cramps. So I had two choices today: drink and get cramps, or not drink, so I didn't take a bottle for the last 15km."
Fourth American was Floyd Landis, who finished just 63 hundredths of a second over one hour in 14 spot. "Yeah, it was everything I expected today; Ventoux was long and hard and hot at the bottom. It went well for me; I felt good but it was nothing spectacular."
Iban Mayo (Euskaltel)
Photo ©: AFP
Tomorrow in the Village Depart in Bollene, Iban Mayo will be awarded his weight on the local Berlingots de Carpentras candy, but the ambitious Basque rider will have to be content with wearing the Maillot Jaune-Bleu leader's jersey of the Crit�rium du Dauphin� Lib�r� into Grenoble. But with the Tour just over the horizon and two prestigious wins like l'Alpe d'Huez and now le Mont Ventoux under his belt, Iban Mayo and his Euskatel-Euskadi team will be looking to bring their winning ways to Paris on July 25th. But not if Lance Armstrong can help it.
Stage 5 - June 11: Bollene-Sisteron, 149km
With Iban Mayo back in the Maillot Jaune/Blue of the Criterium du Dauphin� Lib�r� lead, Euskaltel-Euskadi will be firmly in control on this transitional stage across the Vaucluse, Drome and into the Alps of Haute Provence.
Photography
Images by Chris Henry/Cyclingnews

• The Giant of Provence looms large from the start in Bedoin
• Jean-Cyril Robin (FDJeux.com) rounds the final hairpin on Mont Ventoux
• France's darling, Richard Virenque (Quick.Step-Davitamon) didn't wow the crowds with his ride on the Ventoux
• Sandy Casar (FDJeux.com) cracked the top 20 on Mont Ventoux
• Walter Beneteau (Brioches La Boulangère) nears the summit, at last
• Christophe Moreau (Crédit Agricole) put in a solid ride to finish 16th
• Juan Miguel Mercado (Quick.Step-Davitamon) held the lead for some time but missed out on the stage podium
• David Moncoutié (Cofidis) fights his way to 12th place at the summit
• Oscar Sevilla (Phonak) was the first rider to beat Jonathan Vaughters' Ventoux record
• Lance Armstrong (US Postal Service) could only muster fifth best on the day
• Iban Mayo (Euskaltel-Euskadi) checks to see that his time is indeed the fastest
• Iban Mayo (Euskaltel-Euskadi) gets an escort back to the podium after his winning ride

Images by AFP Photo

• Iban Mayo (Euskaltel) looked smooth as he rode to the top in the day's fastest time
• Iban Mayo (Euskaltel) nears the summit of Ventoux
• Race leader Jose Enrique Gutierrez (Phonak) had a great ride to finish seventh, but it wasn't enough to keep the leader's jersey
• Tyler Hamilton (Phonak) gives it everything
• Oscar Sevilla (Phonak) battles his way up the mountain
• Lance Armstrong (USPS-Berry Floor) powers up Ventoux, struggling in the heat
• Iban Mayo (Euskaltel) is the new leader of the Dauphine Libere

Images by Russell Standring/grenoblecycling.free.fr

• Lance Armstrong (US Postal-Berry Floor) passes Stuart O'Grady (Cofidis) before the Chalet Reynard on the steep slopes of Mont Ventoux
• Mikel Astarloza (Ag2R Prevoyance) fights with his bicycle on the Mont Ventoux
• Matthew White (Cofidis) is wired up on the Mont Ventoux
• Baden Cooke (FDJeux.com) on Mont Ventoux, two kilometres before the Chalet Reynard
• Erik Dekker (Rabobank) would loose his mountains jersey to the day's winner, Iban Mayo
• Andy Flickinger (Ag2R Prevoyance) riding to finish just inside the time limit on the Mont Ventoux
• Tyler Hamilton (Phonak Hearing Systems) digs deep to ride to second place on the Mont Ventoux
• George Hincapie (US Postal-Berry Floor) riding to 33rd place on the Mont Ventoux
• Karsten Kroon (Rabobank) would be eliminated for finishing outside the time limit on the Mont Ventoux
• Levi Leipheimer (Rabobank) riding to eighth place on the Mont Ventoux
• Iban Mayo (Euskaltel-Euskadi) on his way to winning on the Mont Ventoux with a record time
• David Millar (Cofidis) on the Mont Ventoux
• David Moncoutie (Cofidis) riding to 12th place on the Mont Ventoux
• The winner the previous day, Nicolas Portal (Ag2R Prevoyance) on the Mont Ventoux
• Carlos Sastre (Team CSC) riding to 18th place on the Mont Ventoux
• Determination from Nicki Sorensen (Team CSC) in hot conditions on the Mont Ventoux
• The rider's view of the Mont Ventoux in the early kilometres of the time-trial from Bedoin.
• Race leader Jos� Gutierrez (Phonak Hearing Systems) riding to seventh place on the Mont Ventoux

Images by Philippe/velopalmares.free.fr

• Nicki S�rensen (Team CSC)
• Joseba Albizu (Euskaltel-Euskadi)
• David Millar (Cofidis)
• Bert Grabsch (Phonak)
• Iker Flores (Euskaltel-Euskadi)
• Floyd Landis (US Postal)
• Erik Dekker (Rabobank)
• Dimitri Muravyev (Credit Agricole)
• Jorg Jaksche (Team CSC)
• Jose Azevedo (US Postal)
• Levi Leiphemer (Rabobank)
• Lance Armstrong (US Postal)
• Lance Armstrong (US Postal)
• Tyler Hamilton (Phonak)

I meant in 2013 Froome biked up ventoux 25seconds faster than armstrong-pantani...