With TI swimming I got a 1:10 at IMMT and a :26 at an Olympic earlier in the summer.

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"My lungs will not actually burst."

Don't bother, it's not very useful or fast. Try a Masters Group at the pool.

TI is just a money maker for Terry Laughlin, nothing more. It shows people how to swim easier doing a screwed up Freestyle technique which should actually be considered a different stroke all together, like Breast Stroke, Backstroke, and now TI Stroke. It's not faster than Freestyle and you look dorky doing it.

It is soo funny watching the TI swimmers in the water stroking away and going nowhere quickly. So if you want to look like a complete dork, learn it, if not sell it on Ebay and join a Masters Group.

Good job. Unfortunately, if you took 100 randomly selected young men/women nonswimmers, and made them do 2 years of TI without any strenuous intervals or hard swimming, I doubt a majority of them would have similar results.

Funny, I swim about 1:40/100yds at my local YMCA and consider myself slow compared to the other swimmers... They must be doing 1:20 to 1:30/100... I guess it all depends on region.

Says the :57 minute swim pb "Pro" IM triathlete...

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float , hammer , and jog

You're in San Diego per your username stats. That probably has one of the highest % of fast swimmers in the country.

If you go to 10 random YMCAs in the country at noon, you'll be lucky to find even 10% of the swimmers swimming faster than 1:40/100.

The problem with TI, at least for me, was that he describes the path from the result back without explaining the interstitial whys. Being long in the water with an "easy" stroke is the result of good form, but just trying to be long with a glide won't magically impart good form. Also, to swim fast with a slow turnover requires a great catch and a very explosive rotation, which comes at a cost. As others have said in other threads, form and fitness go hand-in-hand and complement each other. So, I have come full circle with T1 as I have a better understanding of swimming, and I would say that yes - you can swim pretty fast for a triathlete via T1 techniques (which really are not anything different than what everyone else advocates), but it took me 15 years to get there.

That's ALOT faster than you and in the top 10% of IM's,.

I'm not claiming to be a Pro, nor am I slagging on other swimmers.

Man, I must be really bored to keep feeding the troll.

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float , hammer , and jog

Probably true. I live in San Diego and have been literally swimming a few months and did a 1:20 2.4mile USMS ow race without a wetsuit, and it got me dead last, I think. Maybe I beat 1/2 70 yos???

However, put a wetsuit on me and I'm prolly 1:12 IM swim which is MOP. The only reason I can swim at all is my swim buddies, two ladies, swim 20 and 24 minute miles. They stop every 1/4 to 1/2 mile to wait for me to catch up. Yes, SD (So Cal in general) has sickly fast swimmers.

I'm going to start masters next week!

Lol, trihard4me apparently is a retired pro,who's half black and half white ,he also said he will spit in the face of relay racers at triathlons,according to his other thread. Like to see him try this on me at superfrog later this month,let's see what happens to him then.

Apparently you missed Dan's caution in the witch hunt thread, where violence or even virtual intimations of violence are pretty frowned upon.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

No violence,haha,he's a troll who's never even done a 5k

See this thread,where he threatened violence:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...earch_engine#4142945


Selling his Kona spot on EBAY
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;
And on letsrun asking why triathletes are pussies, big time troll
http://www.letsrun.com/...d.php?thread=4785886

Coming from a competitive speed skating and cycling background, I went for my first open water swim with a friend of mine and I had no clue what I was doing other than trying to keep myself from drowning. Another person saw me swimming with my head coming up and I was sinking with every breath stroke. I mean, I was doing it all wrong but working twice as hard as everyone else out there.

That night, a guy stopped by my bike shop and dropped off a disc and it was total immersion. That night I watched it over and over and couldn't wait to try this technique out. I went to the pool the next few days and the following week I went back out for the open water swim and people could tell an difference and more importantly, I felt so much better in the water.

So, I think it's a great start to find your "base technique" but then everyone has their own little things they find that help them go a bit faster of feel relaxed. You need to find it but remember that the basics are always important.

This.

TI overemphasizes the glide phase, and presents a lot of concepts without the steps in between to reach them.

It will work for a few people (the spaghetti at the wall concept), and those people are generally the ones foaming at the mouth chanting "Terry is a god!" and berating everyone for their poor opinion of it. As I said, if you really don't know how to swim, and don't have access to a decent instructor, then TI can at least teach you to complete the swim. You may be one of those magical ones that it "clicks" for. The system is not bad for basic instruction, but there are much better resources out there (Swimsmooth and finding freestyle are two primary ones).

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

That's ALOT faster than you and in the top 10% of IM's,.


You are so full of shit it isn't even funny. I've been sitting on the sidelines, watching you puff your chest about your "accomplishments" as a "pro" triathlete over the last 3 months.....put up or shut up. Those of us who actually did race at a high level back in the 80s don't hide in anonymity. No, we weren't all part of the big 4 (much less MP/JR level for that matter), but we aren't casting stones at "slow" IM racers that we disapprove of now.

You are such a fast swimmer? Really? Post your name & results.

If you are as good as you say you are, post your name & don't hide in anonymity. Who are you? What are your actual results? Most people don't know this, back back in the 80s/early 90s all it took to get your pro card was a bit of extra cash & occasionally some semblance of proof that you had a top 10/5/3 finish on your resume, no matter how immaterial the race.

Lots of small dicked 40-somethings going around boasting about "their days as a pro".....are you THAT GUY? No? Then who are you? Lets hear it ex-pro, post your palmares & then talk smack. Until you do so you are just another Walter Mittiesque wanna-be/never-will-be railing against newbies/slowbies/TITbies.......nothing but talk.

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"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." John Rogers

As an adult who learned to swim specifically for triathlon, TI gave me a lot of fundamental skills. I followed the skill drills religiously and only proceeded after mastering one before taking on the next because they built on each other. It worked for me. I've gone as fast as 57:18 for 2.4mi.

Those who learned as a kid to swim on a team should consider themselves lucky. Nothing like gasping for air doing intervals when the guy next to you is just doing an easy swim and you can barely keep up with him.

TI works, but keep your mind open to new technique advice. It's not for everyone, and some don't want to hear it mentioned. Nobody is going to stop you in the middle of a race to chastise you for your choice of technique.

I hashed all this out on another thread,"TI Debate". But will explain quickly again. IMO there are two main ways to freestyle,"catch and pull"or Total Immersion. On a another website they were calling"catch and pull"the"swinger" style of swimming(everyone thought that was hysterical,including me). So I started called Total Immersion,"turnthrustglide". In the"swinger technique"you basically swing your arms as fast as possible and therefore it is the"fast"way to swim(many triathletes do this style). It does work but you tend to do a lot of strokes and in my opinion is not efficient. On the other hand"turnthrustglide"is easier,more relaxed,more fun,do less strokes and CAN be fast IF you practice. All you have to do to do"turnthrustglide"is TURN your shoulders(up to 90degrees),THRUST your arm forward and GLIDE(your glide is your follow through). The harder and smoother you do"turnthrustglide"the faster you go. My advice is to TRY both styles and do the one that works best!

+1

Helped me with the basics

+2. It seems to me that people are talking past each other a bit on this issue. You've got some elite/pro level people saying that TI doesn't work and won't make you fast. I can accept that a pro wouldn't want to train using TI. Don't know for sure - because I'm not a pro and never will be - but I can accept that and think it makes sense.

However, for me - someone with no swimming background whatsoever and who has only 6-8 hours a week to train - TI has worked wonders. It's helped my feel very comfortable in the water and, in a little over a year, taken me from no swimming ability at all to the point where I can do a low heart rate Olympic distance swim in around 28-29 minutes.

Now, I'm doing this for fun, and not to win any awards. But I will say that as an age group athlete, you can be very competitive at the Olympic distance with a 28-29 minute swim if you have a strong the bike and run. TI works for me as a training approach (because I do my relax, low heart rate swims on my rest days, allowing me to save my Zone 5 training efforts for the bike and run) and it works on race day because it makes the swim doable and I exit the water feeling fresh as a daisy, ready to have a strong bike and run.

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“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring.”
¯ Desmond Tutu

lol... you beat me to it, i wasn't gonna give him a hard time if someone else already did :)

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-Jason
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Is that all you've got? Are you sure?

I've been swimming TI for 4 years now.

Largely as a result of advice on this board I incorporate faster sets above OW race pace into my training, basically just upping my stroke rate, not gliding quite so much, but trying not to flail about/keep good form.

This has helped alot. I think of it as 'threshold TI'.

Now, I am by no means a fast swimmer by ST standards. But, with my glidy TI stroke, I was 8th out of +/- 400 swimmers at Rieslingman this june. Bear in mind I'm a fat opera singer with a drink problem. Time was around 1'25"/100m OW, 1km swim.

I'm doing Bilzen 111 this weekend and am curious to see how I stack up against the Belgians.

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

Thanks for that great advice. I have been thinking of doing some above race pace intervals now that I finished my last race of the year.

Do you use a tempo trainer and if so where do you set it for races and what kinds of pace do you use for your 'Threshhold TI' sets?

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“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring.”
¯ Desmond Tutu

Dunno, but the wife is getting me one for my birthday.
I would describe my stroke rate as 'laughably slow'.
It was improved this afternoon by trying (and failing) to keep up with the 8-year olds in the next lane.
Honestly, how frustrating is that? Get your head down to try to swim as fast as a little kid & swim right up the rear of some random belgian woman doing leisurely breaststroke in the 'fast' lane. Dunno who was the more shocked.

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

TI is a good place to start for new swimmers. If you're already fairly comfortable in the water then I'd look at something that teaches a more competitive style of swimming. I've found TI is good for building the foundations but can lack a bit when it comes to swimming fast.

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Effortless Swimming

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