Reminds me of the Obre autobio. He did the same thing, re-sewing tubs after repair then racing.

Maybe an idea is a classifieds section of newbies asking for help to locate or search for bargains and build into the sport and vets can help with local CL links or ST classified links or good budget minded guidance.

I have in past cruised a person’s local CL and ebay for them and gave suggestions.

I disagree with this.

Alpha fly is amazing and super fast. Minus 15 years of age equivalent for me in running.

Saucing endorphin pro is solid but not as fast when I use it. Same pebax foam.

Nike invincible is more of a heavy recovery shoe but it’s also pebax and it’s literally the slowest shoe in my rotation along with the bondi6. I’d think if pebax was all that was needed this would be faster than a bondi.

I def feel the plate rebounding in the alphafly it’s awesome. Weirdly nowhere near as much bounce in the endorphin pro for me.

I THINK there are two discussions at hand.

1. What is the magnitude of a new tri bike sale?

2. What is magnitude in terms of cost entry for a new person to enter and enjoy the sport.

These are two different discussions because the first question may be answered by the group of experienced enthusiasts already in the sport who are in upgrade cycles. These people will continuously be in upgrade cycles as long as they stay in the sport, but they are already in the sport. They are not growing the sport.

The second question is that massive bottom of the pyramid that ideally bolts on and becomes a feeder group for the future of the sport. Do reviews in the likes of Triathlon Magazine Canada that kind of address the first group and talk about high end everything deter new people entering the sport ? The good news is that all these people entering the sport are ideal people for "hand me downs" from those in the sport on 'upgrade cycles'.

So we can have both. The upgrade cycle die hards and then all the others (maybe the cheapo die hards and the newbies wanting good enough gear at an entry price point). After all, those $6500 to $18K bikes have to end up somewhere eventually (ideally not a land fill).

Is there some set of themes in much of the media, not just gear review but the entire lifestyle focus article from all the Kona qual xyz article vs 'can I use a surfer wetsuit to stay warm in my first race' (by the way I know a guy who answered the latter question for an entire emerging sport), that is a gap that can better inform the conveyor belt of new talent wondering how to enter this sport ?

If you look at some of the responses on this thread, as a sport we do have a collective 'old guys' country club' image issue.

You and I are part of the old guy country club (Sheesh when you started in the sport and me a few years after you, there were no guys our age doing this) . Now us and the cohort a decade younger than us are still doing it and largely our generation is still running the sport (Messick is my age). Can we do better so that when we are totally out of it, there is a big balloon of people 30 years younger backfilling ?

Or will we diminish the sport with everything Ironman, everything high end, everything around old rich guys and nothing for youth mass participation and nothing for local racing ?

I think your idea of beefing up the classifieds is great. Last August I wanted to get mechanical Gruppo, rim brake tri bike in size 51. I was willing to upgrade to disc. Your $6500 number was bang on. For something good enough for me from QR or Canyon or Cervelo that's where I was landing with mechanical and daic brakes and some wheels fast enough to race.

I used Facebook marketplace and found a mechanical ultegra Cervelo P3 rim brake from 2019. Exact same bike as I owned in 2014. I got it for $2400 CAD. At my ability and everyone slower than me in my age group the $6500 new vs $2400 second hand was not making a dent on my overall position.

I think we are on the same mission for this sport to grow and thrive...but I am just a private citizen who participates and in my way introduced people to the sport. My input is from feet on the street. Keep in mind I am not from California or Boulder which are different worlds. But we need this sport to be healthy all over.


But how does a new triathlete figure all that out? Maybe they just need to be informed of what is out there in the second hand market and that it is plenty fast. In 2020 I qualified for 70.3 world's 2021 on a 2010 era Cannondale slice that you rode in the Tour of California ITT years ago. Most new athletes would look at that piece of aero shit frame and think it was beneath them!!!

What would be really good is if you could do a write up showing the time difference between a roady, a 20 year old TT bike and a new super bike at 160 Watts just to show new comers how little time saving there is.

Without sounding like a broken record people are under the impression that they are losing a huge amount of time which is just so wrong.

Haha...I have a set of Mavic GP4 rims with Campy record wide flange hubs in my basement that you could install those tubulars on but you would have to find a six speed thread on freewheel !!!! I can't throw out those rims because I rode my first IMC Penticton on those. Your ex flew by on a new fangled dual 650 bike with 80 degree seat tube angle!!! All kidding aside what was the price of that Superform or Kilo (or whatever) she was setting bike course records on?

It's not the same foam and it's different shoe design. Someone pulled the plate out of a vaporfly and it was more or less just as fast. Nike Pegasus turbo was the zoomx foam and those flew. Hokas have a plate and have historically been trash compared to the others, in the sense of having no measurable benefit. Doesnt really matter, just funny to me

You know what you do? You just be a good steward to your fellow athlete. I went to college with an high level cyclist/triathlete. He was the nicest guy who was a stud. You’d not even know he was a fast athlete unless you saw him race, he never spoke about it other than at races. He got some spinal issue that meant he couldn’t workout anymore. Has like a 7 year old kid who’s teacher is getting into the sport. He comes into the shop asking for a wheel box. He’s going to give his hold hed tri spoke to the teacher as a surprise Christmas present “why not I’m not using them ever again”. Simple stuff like that.

Our tri store is going to do an “ask the coach” free clinic for all triathletes each month in the triangle area. We’ll focus on a topic and then open forum. Maybe 2 ppl show up, maybe 8, but it’s just about opening it up to getting info out there.


Go be you dev. You’re genuine and care. maybe you bring someone into the sport or maybe you meet someone and they tell you they are stoked about swimming/martial arts/skiing. You now have an in to ask them about said journey every time you see them. That’s a fun interaction that builds a relationship.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Fair question. If everyone thinks they need to have a $18K bike then the sport would be very limited outside of sponsored athletes. That is not what you are going to see at races though.

My first triathlon was done with 5-6 of my friends. I didn't have a race bike or access to a pool, so I decided to just follow my favorite half marathon training plan and not try to train for the bike or swim legs at all. I borrowed a race bike from a friend of my brother for the race and went and had fun. I did something like 3:30 min/100 swim time, averaged around 21.5 MPH on the bike, and had the 2nd fastest run split of the day for about an 8th place out of about 15 people in my AG finish. That is how people get into this sport. They compete with what they have and don't try to compete with people on $18K bikes.

My first Tri bike was $300, my second Tri bike was $1,500, and my current tribike was $1,600 with aero carbon race wheels and it only had 2,000 miles on in.

You don't have to break the bank to be a triathlete. I averaged 24.2 MPH average for the bike leg at my last race on the $1,600 bike. When I had the $300 bike I used to love coasting past people on $10K bike when going down long hills in races.

Let's be clear. The paid advertising is designed to make it look like everyone who is serious about the sport has an $18K bike, but that is defiantly not true. I followed a local athlete when I started the sport who's resume included a 2nd place over all finish as USAT Duathlon Nationals and a 1st place over all AG finish at Ironman Texas. He did all that without funds for aero carbon race wheels and competing on a low budget bike. If you talk to people at races you will find that no one is racing on an $18K bike. I am guessing that you will find that most of the serious triathletes are on bike that are under $2,500 and that entry level athletes are completing on mountain bikes that they had before they got into the sport or entry level street bike. Paid advertisement is not aimed at grow the sport. It is aimed at making sales to people already in the sport.

Don't get me wrong there are lots of sports that are cheaper than Triathlons. Especially at the pointy end, but we should not be driving the false narrative that you need an $18K TT bike to get into the sport. Anything that you have kicking around the garage rusting out will do the trick. Especially if you are doing it to change up your cross fit routine and not with the goal to complete for podiums.

it costs 2600 Australian dollars to get 105 di2.

So not sure how new entrants are going to go when it cost over 2000 bucks to change gears and you don't even get wheels and a frame

Why does a new entrant need Di2?? Why does anyone for that matter in triathlon...

Your argument is like a Ferrari costs $500,000, how is anyone going to afford a car..

There are mechanical P3's for under $1k second hand...

One thing I notice about a lot of bike and tri stuff is all the news is constantly about pros and elite amateurs racing. Yes, there is a group of folks who are "fans" of a sport and wish to know that. But it's a poor assumption that all the average joe participants even necessarily care what the top pros/ams are doing in a sport.

It can range from "don't care" to "superfan".

Deal with that is, it isn't like Top Gear where it's only an entertainment consumption thing and folks like to see the "go fast" all the time. Sometimes folks want/need the average joes.

I get that average joes probably don't bring the same clicks/likes/revenue stream in the obvious manner, but they bring the primary revenue stream otherwise since they're the ones actually buying products.

Not sure how you manage that in terms of balancing glossy content with gritty boring average joe stuff to still get ad revenues, but something to think on.

That’s the part that I don’t understand. Why is that lots of people on this very site got into the sport on non tri gear, second hand, or borrowed gear. They get into it, loved it and then upgraded.

Why is it that new people can’t do that now? Why do we only complain about the cost of new 105di2 when there are tons of used bikes out there for the new person. And here is the part I don’t get. I’m with them that cost is a factor. But what point are they making other than stating the obvious? No one wants to talk solutions, they just want to complain about it also while talking about their own high end stuff. So when the used bike marker solution comes up, that prob many people complaining about costs used as a pathway, suddenly they do quiet. It’s they only want to complain about the upgrade costs.

So again I’m with you. Bikes are expensive, running shoes are expensive, pool lane is expensive. And that’s all one person.

Triathlon has a cost factor. But you know what it also has? An athletic barrier of entry factor. You don’t just get to go do it next weekend. There is a min training threshold you basically need in order not to die. You can go “run” a 5k right off the couch with your co workers as a “charity event” because guess what? You’ll just walk the event in 1 hour.

Tri doesn’t have that capability. If you can’t swim, tri is already out. If you go zero training into an event, you may harm yourself or the event.

Like yes tri has a cost issue, but it has an min fitness level barrier that is a bigger issue to overcome than the cost. You can find cheap equipment. You don’t just find swimming, you actively have to try and do it. You can’t just be a biker. You have to be a bier that has some swim background or ability to do it.

So where is that issue being resolved. That’s a waaaay bigger issue than the cost of said sport. Look at the actual scale of costs, that’s what you should be looking at when talking “cost”. By default a bike is more expensive than a pair of shoes or goggles and jammers. Thank you all for stating the obvious. But those 3 sports have their own barrier to entry. Tri then combines all 3, that is your barrier to entry. THAT is a waay bigger issue than costs. It’s that triathlon by default has a much higher fitness/sport specified standard that other sports don’t have to overcome. No one wants to talk about that.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Well said. I think the challenge there is that it has two barriers of entry though. The first is what you stated so whittles down the pool of available people. Then you add onto that the cost or perceived cost and you have what we have today.

No complaints from me. My excuse to my wife is that I either spend the money to keep myself in shape now and be happy doing it or I pay extra health costs later. 😄

Edit: I read again and you did state both barriers

There may not be a solution. We live in different times. Triathlon magazines are no longer at the grocery store, mall, or every LBS and LRS. We no longer go to Blockbuster and rent Penny Marshall’s Ironman movie. We no longer hang out at the LBS and LRS and pick up race pamphlets for every race happening. We no longer own bikes as a necessary human possession, and ride them everywhere. We no longer spend summer at the beach or pool, and know how to swim because it’s a right of passage. Times are so different. My first tri was totally winged, with what I already owned. We did the whole race in swim trunks and whatever bike was in the garage. Fitness isn’t a normal part of life anymore. It has to be searched out now, by a generation who grew up looking at screens. And as I mentioned in a previous post, pickleball for an initial $40 or so, or a $9.99/ month Planet Fitness membership are the hot things today.

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Athlinks / Strava

There's about to be no choice for new bikes. There are a few remaining 105 R7000 bikes out there (starting at around $4000 for entry-level tri bike), but I presume for the next model year it'll all be R7150, with an upward shift in entry level cost closer to $5K. Shimano will still make the old stuff, but likely just for replacement parts, not OEM. Of the three U.S. brands with the largest in-store retail presence, two have completely given up on entry level tri. Their cheapest tri bikes are around $10K. (Trek, Specialized *). And Cannondale has apparently gotten out of the Tri/TT business altogether.

I "get" buying used. I haven't bought a new bike in well over a decade (7 used bikes or "new old stock" framesets purchased in that period). But buying used is more comfortable for us here, who all nod our heads knowingly when you refer to "P3", and who all know our stack/reach and can spend 30 seconds of quick math to understand right away which bikes fit us. For a newbie it usually requires hand-holding. My first tri bike way back in the day was a $2200 (mostly Ultegra) retail floor model....safe choice to learn what a tri bike is.

* Specialized's web site still shows a $3200 bike based on the old Shiv frame, but none are available, and I'm reasonably certain they're not going to make any more of those rim brake frames, and the site just needs updating.

Also look at the saturation of running, possibly the feeder sport that provides 90% of the triathletes (just my local observation). In tri’s heyday, we were lucky to have one 5k or 10k a month, April through October. Many serious local level runners went to tri, just for more racing. Today, there are several 5k’s every freaking weekend, year round, plus marathons and half’s and ultras, and more trail races than you can keep track of. I find it interesting over the last 40 years, that the majority of my tri friends, came from the running crowd. Even as tri grew and grew, they never gave up the running races, to go just tri. And as we are now experiencing running race saturation, and tri has dwindled to almost nothing, those same crossover folks, don’t really care, because there is plenty of other, cheaper, simpler races, to satisfy their competitive urges. I’m one of them. Even if tri were to magically regress to the days we had 5 or 6 big local triathlons a year, I would find it hard to commit, with all the other running options available. There is a lot more competitive options theses days, and triathlon isn’t standing up to it very well.

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Athlinks / Strava

I'm not disagreeing with you, but read how many people on this very site got into the sport. Borrowed/used equipment. And imo right now with everything going "online", shopping for used is EASIER today than it has ever been in the cycling industry. Sure you may not know exactly if someone who is 5'11 is a 54 or 56. But I give people a little more credit than you seem to do. The internet is a very useful tool for buying just about anything.

ETA: Several vendors allow vendors to post new and used bikes online through various vendors (some dont- Cervelo you aren't allowed to post on other avenues beyond your own biz website per dealer agreement. I get more people calling on a weekly basis for used bikes than i do new bikes. Like right now is the easiest and most convienent time ever to go used market. CL, FB market place, pro's closet, Bike Exchange, Bicycle Blue Book. TODAY more than ever is when anyone can find a used bike. This idea that we have to hand hold isn't an experience I am seeing when dealing with those used bike customers. People may need more questions answered than others, sure. But this idea that a newb can't find a way to purchase a bike in today's world...i'm not buying that reason.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

There is no solution to the "cost". Like you can't get around that. You can mitigate it in how you purchase said equipment (and that's what I'm pushing back on people that you can find ways to offset costs), but you aren't going get around the expense of one sport vs the expense of another sport, when both aren't on equal equipment costs. But beyond that imo the bigger issue is that triathlon isn't sexy. It's not "easy". Nothing about the sport is easy. Absolutely nothing. Hell you can't even just go decide on a Tuesday to go do a race 4 days later on a Saturday if you haven't swam in 26 years since your youth days, like you can with doing a run event. Lots of people do charity run events and just walk the whole damn thing, and then get patted on the back for doing it. Guess what you can't "fake" doing a triathlon. You will harm yourself and potentially others doing it that way. The act of triathlon itself is the biggest barrier to participant numbers. So then you add in the cost of it, and you are limiting the limited number of people. But are there solutions to it? I'm pushing back on this idea that everyone keeps complaining about the costs of bikes, yet everyone has the stories of doing it on the cheap...yet suddenly no newbie can't do it on the cheap apparently (yes 1992 "cheap" vs 2000 “cheap” vs 2014 “cheap” vs 2022 "cheap" will be different values....but it can be done, you guys proved it already by doing it on the cheap to begin with).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A road bike only division in tris would help. End the tech wars to reduce barrier to entry. Still having trouble selling my used tri bike.. why are people not being steered to buy used regardless of ability? IM pro Colin chartier did well doing that

Cycling in general is just insane price wise. Before I even considered triathlon, and was shopping for MTBs, sub 2k basically gets you a bike you'll want to upgrade fairly quickly. Even moreso if you insist on full suspension. I realize the "math" works when you talk about building a bike from scratch, but the fact that a grand buys you a bike that isn't even worth it, full of cheap disposable components that'll need changing in a years time with heavy use, doesn't bode well for future growth. Triathlon or not.

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My old piece of crap $600USD Cannondale CAAD8 is my tri bike,bikepacking bike and gravel bike all rolled into one.Damned bike is bullet proof and Lord knows I have tried to kill it but the thing just keeps going.The Tri-geeks just love looking down their noses at my bike and I like we are some sort of interlopers.It is pretty funny.

I would post photo's of it in Busselton at IMWA followed by my cross Oz tour (including a 235k isolated gravel section towing my BOB) but I can't be bothered resizing every damned photo to fit the requirements here on ST.

Triathlon's perception is its biggest barrier to entry. US perspective here but non-triathletes think ironman=triathlon. Not many have the time for that, so it's an instant turn-off. I think many more people would be willing to give it a tri (pun intended) if there were more local races and they got more attention. I agree with you, I think ST vastly overestimates the number of people who actually care about how fast they go relative to others, the existence of people on superbikes is irrelevant to them.

This literally just popped up on my YouTube feed..(posted 3hrs ago on the SLT channel)

Go to any Planet Fitness and look at the vehicles the kids are driving to the gym. It’s not that they can’t afford triathlon, it’s they don’t want to. I really think Triathlon has gone the way of roller skating, skateboarding, tennis, CrossFit, golf, softball, club bike racing, etc. the stuff still exists, but the heyday is over. Young folks don’t want to do our old people shit anymore. How to you overcome that?

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Athlinks / Strava

Right culturally people's "values" have changed in how they view "fitness" etc. Not right, not wrong, just the attention span and interest has changed. That's why I have thought the best way the sport can gain any of that interest is removing the actual IM distance from said sport. Which I think will happen to a degree in 10+ years. I think in NA we will have at best half a dozen IM's to choose from (I actually think it'll be closer to 3-4 IM's; not counting Kona). There wont be a need for them because at the rate we are going there will be no one to backfill the events. I think the bread and butter event will be the half iron distance. I think that will also open up more possibility for local races to have a bigger impact on said person's training/life. I think IM sometimes gets into a "one race mindset", that athletes forget that they learn from racing even if an Oly, etc as they do *only* to train.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II