Slowman wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Slowman wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
The high end reviews are fine, But I see an opening for slowtwitch to have a beginner's oriented series...gear, training, prep, planning, how to etc etc.except that when we do write about $700 wheelsets (as i recently did) or $499 direct drive smart trainers those reviews don't interest you. it's only interesting to you when we write about something expensive, so that you can complain that we did so.
Hey Dan, what I was pointing out is an opening or gap in market coverage. That is something a of publication can pounce on. Triathlon Magazine Canada went with high end and Ironman coverage at least in most of what I see. The market gap in coverage someone like you can fill and I think it would be valuable to many. I am not complaining about ST coverage. I was commenting on industry wide coverage that is slanted towards the Ferrari end of reviews. I think the entry triathlete is a good demographic worth servicing that it seems many are ignoring. Is that an opp for ST to fill? If I talk to entry level triathletes many are even intimidated to come here.
Would be glad to contribute in the future in that capacity but at this point in life taking on additional responsibilities is tight. Maybe a few years from now.
here is what i have learned over 24 years of publishing product stories:
1. nobody EVER comments about how helpful it is that an entry level product was reviewed. but like clockwork i'll get snarky hate comments every time we publish on a top-range product.
2. when we publish on halo product it's not because we necessarily think you all should go out and buy it. when we publish on dura ace electronic 12sp it's because this is the direction shimano is going. in 2yr you'll find 105 12sp darned near as good at half the price. when we publish on a $1,600 or $1,200 direct drive smart trainer the features and specs will show up in a $500 version in 3yr or 4yr.
2. while tech trickles down, it only trickles to a certain level and that's possibly more than you want to spend (even $500 for a direct drive smart trainer). if you look at what people actually buy, it tends to be what we write about. what does not sell is the product people say they want. for example, where are the $1,500 or $2,000 tri bikes? they don't sell, you won't buy them, so they aren't in the product catalogs of the major players. now, having written this i can almost promise you someone will post to this thread about a $1,500 or $1,800 tri bike and, yeah, somebody is selling it. and when i count bikes in kona there are 7 of them. or 12. as opposed to 500 canyons and 600 cervelos. there is no reason canyon can't make a $2,000 tri bike. the problem is that they can't sell $2,000 tri bikes. that's not the canyon people want.
i don't mind your theorizing, but as a manufacturer (formerly) and media type guy (for the last 2 dozen years) the people who complain bitterly about expensive stuff getting written about don't want to hear that a typical tri bike maker's mean sale price is, say, $6,500 or so. but that's the reality.
all that said, i think you're right that there's an affordability issue and one of my and eric's plans is to bulk up the classifieds forum as that place where affordability exists. pros closet got too choosey in what it wants to sell, and you can't find the $1,500 or $2,000 tri bike there. but that bike exists on the secondary market and we have plans for that forum.
I THINK there are two discussions at hand.
1. What is the magnitude of a new tri bike sale?
2. What is magnitude in terms of cost entry for a new person to enter and enjoy the sport.
These are two different discussions because the first question may be answered by the group of experienced enthusiasts already in the sport who are in upgrade cycles. These people will continuously be in upgrade cycles as long as they stay in the sport, but they are already in the sport. They are not growing the sport.
The second question is that massive bottom of the pyramid that ideally bolts on and becomes a feeder group for the future of the sport. Do reviews in the likes of Triathlon Magazine Canada that kind of address the first group and talk about high end everything deter new people entering the sport ? The good news is that all these people entering the sport are ideal people for "hand me downs" from those in the sport on 'upgrade cycles'.
So we can have both. The upgrade cycle die hards and then all the others (maybe the cheapo die hards and the newbies wanting good enough gear at an entry price point). After all, those $6500 to $18K bikes have to end up somewhere eventually (ideally not a land fill).
Is there some set of themes in much of the media, not just gear review but the entire lifestyle focus article from all the Kona qual xyz article vs 'can I use a surfer wetsuit to stay warm in my first race' (by the way I know a guy who answered the latter question for an entire emerging sport), that is a gap that can better inform the conveyor belt of new talent wondering how to enter this sport ?
If you look at some of the responses on this thread, as a sport we do have a collective 'old guys' country club' image issue.
You and I are part of the old guy country club (Sheesh when you started in the sport and me a few years after you, there were no guys our age doing this) . Now us and the cohort a decade younger than us are still doing it and largely our generation is still running the sport (Messick is my age). Can we do better so that when we are totally out of it, there is a big balloon of people 30 years younger backfilling ?
Or will we diminish the sport with everything Ironman, everything high end, everything around old rich guys and nothing for youth mass participation and nothing for local racing ?
I think your idea of beefing up the classifieds is great. Last August I wanted to get mechanical Gruppo, rim brake tri bike in size 51. I was willing to upgrade to disc. Your $6500 number was bang on. For something good enough for me from QR or Canyon or Cervelo that's where I was landing with mechanical and daic brakes and some wheels fast enough to race.
I used Facebook marketplace and found a mechanical ultegra Cervelo P3 rim brake from 2019. Exact same bike as I owned in 2014. I got it for $2400 CAD. At my ability and everyone slower than me in my age group the $6500 new vs $2400 second hand was not making a dent on my overall position.
I think we are on the same mission for this sport to grow and thrive...but I am just a private citizen who participates and in my way introduced people to the sport. My input is from feet on the street. Keep in mind I am not from California or Boulder which are different worlds. But we need this sport to be healthy all over.
But how does a new triathlete figure all that out? Maybe they just need to be informed of what is out there in the second hand market and that it is plenty fast. In 2020 I qualified for 70.3 world's 2021 on a 2010 era Cannondale slice that you rode in the Tour of California ITT years ago. Most new athletes would look at that piece of aero shit frame and think it was beneath them!!!
Last edited by:
devashish_paul: Dec 26, 22 19:20