All weather conditions. If a person only has 1 bike, and discs stop better than rim brakes, than it makes sense that that person would probably want discs to ride in the rain or where ever. I also have no idea what I'm buying yet.

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Nope! I'm reading that article now.

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My experience with wet weather braking on rim and disc is that both will stop you in the same amount of distance. It's how it slows you down is the difference. Wet rim aluminum is kind of loose at first, then way too grabby, very hard to judge and control. Requires a massive amount of "slam" at first and then ease off to prevent skidding the tire.

Disc is a very responsive stop. All depends on how much braking you're going to do on a bike in my opinion. If you do a lot of group rides in the rain, then having discs that scrub speed accurately is nice.

You're talking crap. I've lived in a hilly/mountainous area for years where it's constantly pissing down and have never needed disc brakes. This includes going down 1:3 hills with a fully loaded touring bike. Last few times I've been in Mallorca and the Alps I haven't heard anyone say they need disc brakes despite rain. Even then over the past couple years I've built up 3 TT training bikes for less than half the price of a Neo.

So do you really thinking spending 5k on a P3x (or whatever they're cheap version is going to be) is better value than buying a P5, a training bike, and aero testing for the same money? Like I said, you're living in Narnia.

 I've ridden my P2 in mountainous areas, all up and down some hills. I was saying the argument for disc brakes is better all around braking in ALL conditions. My P2 does not stop that well in the rain!

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I have no issues accepting them today

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

With carbon rims, or AL rims?

What kind of brake pads?

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Shimano brake pads, TriRig Omega X brakes, and Dura Ace brake levers. Aluminum rims

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This. What brakes are you running as well.

I don't take carbon clinchers to the Alps...

Try retrofitting all 4 pads with kool stop salmons and prepare to be impressed.
They make shimano-compatible pads that will slide right in to your brake pad holders.

Because they are outstanding both in dry and wet (on AL rims), far superior to shimano pads.

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I've used them in the past. I ended up switching to the Shimano pads.

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LOL, and you wonder why your braking is poor. Swissstop or bust.

Regardless of my setup, I still think there is no stopping the disc brake train.

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Have you tried any other calipers with the kool-stops?
Tririgs, while aero, are not known for excellent braking performance.

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In many respects, I'm a retrogrouch. I don't like current carbon anything (although I can see potential in about ten years). I like steel a great deal. I don't believe a pound of bike weight matters, at all. I don't believe that aero frames and aero wheels make any real world performance difference for road bikes. However, I do like hydraulic disc brakes a great deal. I'll grant that tri / TT bikes are probably the single type of bikes least enhanced by disc brakes. However, a lot of the complaints here are a bit silly:

1. Rubbing: modern (meaning over the last two years) hydraulics are relatively foolproof to align. Loosen the caliper bolts, squeeze the lever and retighten the bolts. I have discs on three bikes and I don't have a problem with rubbing brakes. Also, brakes as increasingly tolerant of minor rotor run-out. This is only going to continue to get better. Lastly, thru-axles make rotor alignment much easier than QR.

2. Maintenance: modern hydraulic brakes are very reliable. First gen Avid and Shimano hydraulics sucked but the current Shimano road, Shimano MTB and Sram MTB offerings are all very reliable and easy to maintain. Set them up and they usually don't need adjustment for years. You need to reset the pistons when replacing the pads but that's really easy. Even bleeding is simple these days. Are hydraulics as easy to maintain as cables? Not yet, but it's not a wide gulf today.

3. Power: while they offer plenty of braking power discs were never about "more power". They are about consistent braking in all conditions and braking force modulation. I think most people would be hard pressed to say that they prefer the feel of a sidepull brake to a modern hydraulic disc.

I see no reason to prefer sidepull these days if you're buying a new complete road bike. I'd get one with discs and two thru-axles. TT/tri? I can see holding off for a couple of more years.

I accept that disc brakes are a superior method of stopping/slowing than caliper brakes. However, you need horses for courses - just as you wouldn't use a TT bike for off road riding.

Generally speaking you don't want to have to slow down at any stage of a triathlon but you need some form of speed control for turns, dismounts etc.

Disc brakes are heavier and less aerodynamic than caliper brakes and therefore reduce your overall speed slightly. Who needs that when caliper brakes are adequate for their limited need in a triathlon.

Interesting comments of disc brakes on the new Cannondale Slice in this magazine article:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/...o-adriatico-gallery/

I think a lot of people are forgetting the ability to reduce the frontal area of the bike slightly by not having to make head tubes and forks as wide as brake calipers. Is there an aero gain from redesigning wheels? Possibly but it's small.

I believe the overall system of a disc brake tri bike can be faster factoring in everything as a whole. Everyone is focusing on the brakes and wheels when it's the entire system that matters. I'll gladly be proven wrong but this seems to be what Cervelo, Specialized, and Cannodale are saying.

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+1

Ad Muncher

Total bullshit. All of it.

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I disagree. If I can make a head tube and fork slimmer because I don't have to make it as wide as rim brakes, then that should reduce the Cda at low yaw.

So basically all the engineers at 3 different bike companies are wrong? Lying about data?

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Show me the front end of a disc braked bike (INCLUDING wheel differences like spoke count...since you're all about the system, you know ;-) that's more aerodynamic than THIS (including power to rotate) and we can talk. Otherwise, just shut up.


Besides, I thought you didn't care if it was faster or not :-/

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I should shut up? I think you should drop your ego.

These discussions need to be had instead of being dismissed as marketing claims, bad science, or how HED Jet's are God's gift to Triathlon.

No, I won't shut up.

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So far I haven't seen a front hub that doesn't probably negate the advantage of a narrower fork crown. Then add the additional spokes and lacing of the disc brake wheels and it gets really hard to believe there is much of an aero advantage.

I am not opposed to discs, but I don't think there are big advantages for a Tri/TT bike. As for whether I wil upgrade anytime soon? I don't think so. I am too invested in equipment that isn't disc friendly. For example, Powertap hubs don't work. My Specialized trispokes. 18/20 spoke Firecrest 404s, Campy EPS levers.... My hope is that discs make the rim brake bikes I covet cheap, so PM me if you need to unload that Madone 9.x or P4!

That's something I've been wondering about is the hub size and spokes. I just checked the Zipp 808 Disc Brake and it uses CX-Ray spokes but a different hub than the old 808 Firecrest or NSW.

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You fancy the P5x because you think it will make you look like a cross between Chris Boardman and Tron, and you keep creating these threads hoping that the folks you respect on here will validate your choice. The problem is, it cannot be validated with data available today. The other thread where you started by posting a paper on aerodynamic "testing" and then backtracked to "I like the way it looks", and now this one, suggest to me that you just really really want Tom A to tell you it is ok, you made a good choice. If jackmott still posted on here you would be sending him daily PMs with glossy soft-lit photos of disc rotors, mounted to a beam bike leading a race ahead of a triangular frame with 64 gels selotaped to the top tube, a 750ml round bottle attached crosswise to the seat tube, and probably a wicker basket full of flapjack hanging off the aero extensions. But lots of folk on here who understand the scientific method won't approve of your choice, if you decide to buy the P5x.

For me, I will buy disc braking products for my TT bike when obsolescence forces me to, or I see a fair test comparing a leading rim brake bike to a disc bike, both in optimised race trim. And on that day, you will have to pry my last-production-run P3C with its proper race geometry out of my unwilling hands.

I've got Tririg Omegas on my P3C, with some fairly tight turns in the cable routing, passing through my Sigma stem. I ride the bike in the pissing rain (not much choice in Yorkshire) and when I need to I can squeeze the little SRAM aero levers hard enough that my rear tyre locks up, and if I wanted to I'm pretty sure I could endo myself over the front of the bike. The brake caliper is not the weak link in this friction contest, it is the tyre in contact with the road.

And honestly, if it is a discussion about brake actuation and modulation I believe that the vast majority of issues can be sorted out with compressionless segmented cable housing.