Didn't realize USADA released its evidence yet. Since you have a copy, please let us know what the biological passport showed exactly and whether there could be other reasons besides doping that could lead to those results.

So you want someone you believe to be a doper competing in WTC triathlons?

Weeew. I'm hoping that if/when he retires he becomes a permanent commentator .

Socks

Is he doping now? How do you know? USADA might want to use your expertise.

His 2010 values have been available a while. Google is your friend. USADA didnt have the test results to confirm from UCI until recently is the rumored reason as to why USADA hasnt moved on them before

No, I am saying why have police who target strictly "moral crimes" such as drug use and possession.

So basically UCI didn't see anything abnormal worth investigating in 2009 and 2010, and decide to wait 3 years to do anything with them?

Btw, I thought you actually had some new "evidence" but just realized it is the same rubbish.

Breaking news: Our government continues to waste tax dollars chasing doping in sports while about 12 million Americans are unemployed and we have a huge national debt. Awesome, just awesome! (insert sarcastic expression here)

Yes, pro cyclist dope and pro bodybuilders take steroids. Wow, I am really shocked. (insert sarcastic expression here)

Doping in sports, really tough to believe

Anyway, we need a new paradigm, or we need to adapt an old paradigm, such as leave the bastards alone.

Yep... nobody likes PEDs in sport, but a few of us understand why they are there and are never going away. Unfortunately, the majority clings to the fantasy that "all out war" will eradicate it for all time. As long as this naive, self righteous, irrational attitude dominates, then nothing will change.

Here's a better question: IF USADA can prove he did based on his 2010 values, what in the world once you look at those values, would make you think hes stopped now, if he said he wasnt doing it then.

I cant think of any reason in the world why someone has that high of a hemacrit value in 3rd week of a grand tour based on his starting number. i would be shocked if they could prove theres a reason. its not human

If they didnt have the actual test results to go with published values, they couldnt act on them.

You don't get it, do you?

They are not going after a single person, they are going after a group of people, which they have evidence to support, built and established a team wide doping culture and encouraged and/or forced others on said team(s) to partake.


This is not about lance armstrong, it's about bringing down a centerpoint of the doping-in-cycling culture.

Pretty sure they would not be pursuing this if Lance was not involved.

This x1000

diagree. all of the other central figures at the tops of major pro tour teams of the 90s have already been caught. so to say well if it wasnt lance is naive.

JRenfro: I appreciate you being a passionate Lance fan... I myself am one..

But... legalizing all PED in sports?!?! I can do nothing but shake my head at that... I understand many aren't caught, but the fact that they are looking limits some of the use...

I know I may never get to the level of these pro's.... but if PED's are ever legalized..and I'm not willing to risk my future (wife and kids) to keep up with the competition... my dreams and respect for the sport would be crushed.

I have a love for the power of the human body and think it is amazing.... While Lance is a childhood hero and someone I try to mimic my cycling like... if he in fact is guilty.. then for the integrity of the sport.. he must be punished... for my and future generations.

For the record... I don't like the witch hunt though... and thats what it is..... But at the end of the day.. I want a fair shot and my kids to have a fair shot at cycling dreams.... not goals that are only obtainable through PED's

---

--------------------------------------------------------------------
COROS Sports Science

The supposed deal that USADA made with the riders listed at the beginning of the thread states otherwise.

There's no proof that the deal was ever made. Further, at least one of the supposed folks involved as come out to say none of his riders are involved. Further, Bruyneel writes a regular column for the paper that broke the story, and this could simply be an attempt to flush out and discredit potential witnesses.

Finally, if a deal was made, its a common prosecutorial process in order to reach those at the top of organizations. Do you have a problem with drug dealers selling crack that when caught turn a deal in order for prosecutors getting to the supplier? Thats a metaphor for what this case is about and a fairly accurate one i think.

+1

Leipheimer's word is law in my book. I mean, the guy is from Montana originally.

If he indeed testified, then I'm ready to close the case. His "no comment" response doesn't bode well...

---

---

Follow me on twitter @andrewlangfield

Follow my fourth year in the pro field at http://andrewlangfield.blogspot.com/

TO:..Please explain to me how if the USADA, WADA etc. are so effective and stamping out PED use from sports, nearly the entire peloton was doping in the 90s and 2000s. How East Germany managed to have an organized doping regime and not get caught. How current and former Olympians who used PEDs managed to compete and win medals and not be prevented from doing so.
If you really believe this. then why do you keep saying this statement:
Please show us the facts of Lance testing positive.
Does no your first statement prove that your second statement is worthless?

If I remember correctly, when Joe Papp testified against Landis, it wasn't announced until a day or so after his testimony that USADA was imposing a two-year suspension.

I think thats correct. Papp may well have had involvement in this case too in helping understand how supply side could have gotten through to Lance & Co even while under supervision. I hope Floyd kept somewhere the picture he supposedly had of the motorcycle with refrigerated paniers.

We dont know whats going down with most of this, and there will be rumors who is on the list right up until the day its released.

Well money is a very fungible commodity. e.g. If I bank 2 checks for $5000 each and then spend $5000, which check did I spend? Another example, Students in the UK in the 80's used to avoid Barclay's back because of their business interests in South Africa. Now, were anyone to make a deposit at this bank, then would that specific money go to SA? how would yo know. You couldn't make a deposit and require that this particular GBP didn't go there could you? Even if you could, the principal would still be the same so students would have still boycotted this bank. So back on case of USPS. If they paid money to the cycling team and the cycling team paid for doping (directly or via an intermediary) then the case is simple to convince a jury. However the difficult part was always proving that doping took place. The forensic accounts auditing would probably have been the easy part. (IMO)

---

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TriRaceBook.com
.
Hawaii Qualification Analysis

You are living in a dream world, if you think your kids are going to get a fair shot in pro-cycling playing without the use of PEDs

right but the issue is tracking the payments for the doping . thats the part they would have needed. I dont think that expense was listed on the books in any trackable way.

USADA will be able to convince the arbitrators of doping (I believe) because of the strength of the eyewitness testimony, the blood numbers from 2010 and potentially other items from the past. They'll be able to convince them of the conspiracy because theres no way Lance got and administered the drugs to the team all alone (if they prove the doping) and to do so in an undetectible would have taken medical knowledge and organization at a team level. proving how they got the dope and how they paid for it years later without receipt would be the hard part i believe, because the doctors didnt seem to testify and obviously neither did lance. if the doctors had turned and that doping could be proven, the fraud case would have been able to proceed.