I didn't use pink, I thought that the sarcasm was strong enough without it.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

tru dat

Big George won a heroic mountain stage, DZ had that blazing Prologue. it seems like they would need to vacate those wins, plea deal or not. that's a bummer.


on the bright side, if this is all the USADA is going to present, then this is how Lance loses in "court" but has a resounding victory in the PR world. he will crush USADA. the only 'witnesses' will be guys who apparently are admitting to doping, paying what will appear to be no damages, all on the promise of testimony.

(i say "bright side" cause i loath the WADA/USADA. a haters gotta hate.)
edited for spelling

Your analogy with Jan doesn't make any sense. Jan got busted.

Maybe if you re-wrote that using a schleck as an example.


Maybe after they bust Lance and take away his seven and award half of them to Jan, they will dust off the old Telekom team and arrange them to testify against Jan for those years (he was only officially busted later right), Vino can be one of their witnesses, he is credible and clean.

Then they can take the titles from Jan and award them to . . . hell, someone else who was probably already busted.

I have no doubt lance doped, just like his whole team and (based on later convictions and admissions) basically the entire rest of the peleton.

If they are going through all this trouble, can't they just vacate the damn 7 tours. It will be a complete farce to award them to anyone that finished 2nd in those same races because they have all been implicated in their own doping scandal.[/quote]

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

why hate on the only people actually doing anything in sport about doping?

I will buy a beer for anyone who can admit that the real reason they have a problem with the USADA and this investigation is because they love Lance.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Thats the thing when Canseco wrote his tell all book, very early in BB doping history (meaning before many had been caught and most figured it was only a few HR hitters that did it, because drugs wouldn't help a pitcher or high ave hitter) everyone sauid canseco was a nut and his confessions were to cover up his drug use and make some cash. Now he looks like an oracle. A goofy one

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Styrrell

yep. it is a weird personality that will throw his old buddies under the bus. When that guy comes around though, listen!

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

That was my point. Not sure why this is directed at me.

This has to be quoted for posterity.

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CAMPAGNOLO GRAN FONDO NEW YORK

a Michelob Ultra perhaps?


\

who is this "we?" to paraphrase another poster: slowtwitch seems to have gone through the five stages of grief pretty well, but this ain't true with the outside world.

personally, i don't like Javert behaviors from the prosecuting authority, but Lance brought this onto himself by being so Javert-like himself when trashing others.

many of us can admit to liking doped up riders such as Merckx, Coppi, Kelly, Bartoli, or hell, even Vino. Some sheepishly admitted to doping (and some sang about it), and some really didn't seem to feel sorry for their actions, but none of them tried to ruin the lives of others the way Lance has. Lance is like the televangelist who got caught cheating on his taxes and on his spouse but won't admit to his wrongs b/c it'll send his business empire tumbling down. So he drags it out, slings mud, and try to be sanctimonious, but chances are that we'll be finding a ton of those yellow plastic wristbands in the garbage real soon.

That said, i'll admit that i started following cycling b/c his exploits. I would rather have said that i started following cycling when Lemond won his TdF, but alas...

edit: i started caring what went on in the TdF in 2001, and knew neither who his opponents were nor what the Festina Affair was. Still didn't really follow it until 2009, which is when i stopped running and started road racing. Somewhere around then i kinda figured out that when the next five guys all have been accused of doping, something just ain't right. So yeah, i guess that's 8 years, though for most of the 8 i knew nothing about the Grand Tours and the Monuments, but i'm proud to say i never bought those stupid plastic gimmick wristbands.

No... he said he'd buy a beer.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

90's/early 2000's, 99% of the tour riders where doping. The tour organizers knew this. They are going to stay as far away from doing anything as they can.

From my viewpoint.. I grew up at the age of 12 watching lance win the tour.. I pleaded with my parents for 2 years to get me a road bike... I since have been in love with the sport.. of course I like the guy... and I never thought he doped.. HOWEVER...

Now that I'm 10 years older with a college degree, I understand that you can dope "legally" in the sense as long as your blood numbers never reach a certain level. That is the reason for his 500,000 check to his doctor I'm sure... But.. my point is this..

Everyone in the sport was getting busted for doping... If they take away his 7 titles... who do they go to? (Jens Voigt... yes I know) are they just left blank in the record books... or is there a asterisk (barry bonds).. I think this would be the worst possible scenario for the sport in that "legally" he never failed a drug test (his numbers were always just below)..

While I want the sport to be clean and fair for all... I don't think you can strip someone of their titles just from hear say.. Yes, It's true that I'm a huge lance fan (he got me into the sport)... And yes I want to see the guy in kona...... I understand that more than likely he PED's into his system. (I'm not a fan of that at all!!!) But if these numbers were never over the legal amount... then how exactly did he cheat (according to the rules?)

He cheated the sport from a purist standpoint... but through the eyes of the rules... he was clean.

If the USADA is trying to do anything.. they should be implementing a state of the art testing system and re-write the rules to include "any trace" of PED's as illegal...

Still love the guy for the passion he instilled in me as a child that I still have today..... I'm not a fan of him using PED's (even legally)... but I understand his drive to win and how he would do everything within the limits to get there.

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COROS Sports Science

That is absolutely 100% not true.

Also, no beer for you.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

i like cycling; as an activity and as a pro sport. i see those two items as very different things. i choose to hate on the WADA/USADA orgs because i think their actions have done as much to damage the pro sport as the doping has. i do not think they have maintained the integrity or clarity required of a rule enforcement agency. i think they have introduced a feeble set of standards, i think they have not maintained the rigor required of their position. and i think this has led to even more doubt, more suspicion, and more carnage.

we can go on and on but we don't need to. i believe that you are "pro-WADA/USADA" because you sincerely want cycling to be the best sport it can. i dislike the orgs for the very same reason. despite our common objective, we have different opinions towards their behavior and their methods.

But if it helps him sleep at night to believe it, should we really be telling him this?

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Ya, Someone had to do that... lol

I don't have a problem with them going after lance, it does seem like they are chasing him with more tenacity than others, which seems to be unequal protection under their guidelines. I am not generally a fan of reducing the punishment of a dozen guys that committed the same crime just to catch one other guy.

I think when this is done in the criminal courts, usually they make a deal with the low level guys so you can catch the king pins and thus make a big dent in overall crime. I have heard of instances where murderers get deals to turn on mob bosses, and I am not really a fan of that either.

I guess my point is, are we really helping anything if we take 10 dopers and slap them on the wrist and then take 1 doper and smack him in the head? It is still 11 dopers and 10 of them don't miss a race (hell, half of them are literally racing today as I write this).

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Ironman Certified Coach

Currently accepting limited number of new athletes

For what is is worth I am not the one who posted what you quoted me as posting there.

what action specifically that the USADA has taken has damaged the pro sport? Please cite a pre-lance example.

What would you have done differently?

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Leipheimer comes out of the bus and "No comments" on the suspension this morning.

Yeah ..... that makes it pretty much wrapped up to me.

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Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

You owe me a beer! :)

And none of that "frightened water"you call beer down there!

1 doper
a few doctors
and a team director.

all of them rather influential examples of each.

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Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

You can't dope "legally" - the reason that a test only counts as positive if it's over certain levels is due to the error margins in some of the test procedures, and also due to the fact that some of the things they test for do occur naturally in the body at certain levels. It's not like drink driving where you're allowed to have one or 2 drinks and then drive, just not 5 or 6 drinks - EPO is a banned substance, full stop. So if they can prove that Lance was taking banned substances, then the fact that he never failed a test doesn't matter.

I'm not a big fan of Lance but I do think he was a phenomenal athlete, doped or not, and did a lot to increase the profile of cycling, as well as all his charity work. Agree that it would be meaningless to try and strip his titles away and award them to anyone else, so personally I'd be in favour of leaving the titles with him but putting an asterisk next to them if he's convicted of doping.

where along the five stages of grief do you think you are?

what is wrong with an asterisk? your sporting heroes have a good amount of faults, so you choose cognitive dissonance and ignore the faults?


most colleges teaches people to see the gray in life and apply critical thinking. you seem to have ignored this and still in the bargaining stage: well sure he did it, but it wasn't against the rules, right (blood doping and EPO were banned in the mid 90's)? Methinks your next bargain will be: ok fine, it's against the rules, but they didn't have the technology necessary to detect, so it must be okay, right?