sdmike wrote:

Spot on.

Ironically, shortly before Sparks ruling I posted effectively the same thing as I predicted that Lance's world was soon to come crashing down and the need to add insult to injury on Floyd was the reason (well, besides all the cheating and lying of course - but he would have gotten away with it if he hadn't piled on Floyd).

I was lambasted and told to change the title of my thread to "ST - ignore the dribble in this post", which I did.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=4098837

Rarely watch TV so I had to google that one. Excellent.

Yep. I just used the 90's Motorola team as an example because LA was on it. Doping has been around, without a doubt, much longer. However the Italians were well ahead of the cycling curve with epo and testo in the mid 90's. Some clean guys bailed then. Said no thanks. LA wasn't one of them.

Since you pointed out LA why not name some of the others who did not bail? Quite a long list wouldn't you say? Really you guys are worse than a bunch of old people (not picking on old people but you catch my drift) sitting around spouting one bit of nonsense after another.

Though it should be noted that blood boosting was not banned for the Olympics in 1984.

Wow!!! I am Danish and I really enjoyed watching the TdF at that point and remember that Bjarne Riis came out of nowhere and suddenly he was riding with the big names and eventually went on to win the TdF. I was to young to know about doping back then but looing at those hemotacrit values, no wonder Riis suddenly was so good.

Right. It's often been reported that his nickname in the peloton at the time of his TdF win was "Mr 60%", on account of his haematocrit level.

And one rider won the Tour 5 times almost certainly by in part getting a jump on the better part of the peloton thanks to Conconi.


What's most remarkable about the EPO timeline is how naive the peloton or at least the doping docs were about EPO being a game changer. They seem to have been or at least Ferrari was ready with blood doping immediately when the EPO test became available.

Quote:

All I'm saying is that he did it to make money so as Tyler

Same can be said of Doug Ullman, LA's appearance fees, oncologists, neurosurgeons, janitors, prostitutes...
I know, breaking omerta is different from "normal jobs," but it's ethically inconsitent to judge writing a tell all book for the money and writing a sugar coated biography for the money.

I don't think you get it....Motorola did not go to Europe. The team had already been there for 6 years when Motorola took over sponsorship in '91. And by that time, EPO was becomingthe prevalent drug.

Suggesting that Motorola went to Europe, got their asses handed to them and then started doping is in complete disregards to the facts. They have been there, knew what was going on and either were or were not systemically doping by the time Motorola took over.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

The "facts" as I believe them to be:

Epo really took hold in 1995.
Motorola, with Jim Ochowicz as the manager, and had George, Lance, Frankie Andreau, Kevin Livingstone, riding (I think) got crushed in TA and Milan San Remo in 1995. From 1996 on it was game on and you were either in or out. You couldn't hang with the Euros if you didn't get with the program. There has always been doping of course but team wide use of epo, which requires a measured program (a system) and doesn't work overnight really took hold about 1995-6. At least for Motorola.

EPO took hold long before 1995 in the peloton.

Don't know what "facts" you are referring to, but the above is widely recognized and acknowledged. Remember PDM pulling out of the '91 TdF?

Bad intravenous food, my ass.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

I have no play on this nor wil exteriorize what my position is about Lance, I am just curious why portuguese coaches are different than coaches from other countries :)

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"Bros b4 Hos, man" House MD

Team Aquaphor 06-08

See also for example here: http://velonews.competitor.com/...its-to-epo-use_93581

Note that Rooks left PDM after 89, so it wasn't just PDM...

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

But he admitted it in a book. He's doing it for the money.

"I will answer your question in a minute, but first I would like to know if you regret beating up your children as much as you did?" (Paulo)


You scare me with comments like this. Why would you cloud a discussion with this unfair comment?

I think his point was that the question posed to him contained an assumption. His response was not substantive (unless you know each other), but rather a variation on the "when did you stop beating your wife" question (in a context in which it had not been established that the subject beat his wife).

I appreciate your response, but my initial question was not an assumption.

Paulo does not like Lance and I wanted him to explain why.

Francois - I'm coming clean. I finally agree with you. You have been consistently spot-on regarding the LA doping issue for years. I used to be big LA supporter as recently as his triathlon victories. Funny, I don't hold doping against him as much as I do his bold face lying about it. Since he is the one athlete with the most to lose so he will never come clean. I had lunch with a friend recently who is avid Cat 1 racer. He said there are plenty of dopers in the weekend racing bunch too. The only way to enjoy the sport is to watch it for what it is. A dope show.

On another related note (re, athletes who fall from grace) Tiger Woods could have denied all of his exploits. I give him credit for stepping up and admitting to it all. Lance should have done the same thing. I can respect anyone who admits they f'd up. Impossible to respect LA.

Kudos for admitting. I don't think I've been spot on though. There was a short time I believed. I guess growing up in Europe and hearing
far more than we get here in the US, I had become far more cynical, and my tolerance for circumstantial evidence was much lower. I naively
think that for instance Bolt is clean. But I keep my mind open. The recent revelations about the coach hanging out with the Jamaican team
are a first cringe step. Not sure how many will be needed.

I hope Lance fesses up. I hope he does this very publicly, and starts a foundation (and I'm not being cynical) for a clean cycling in the US,
and elsewhere, one that teaches kids about riding clean, the dangers of doping, etc. And (and I said that before), I really wish at some stage,
he becomes an advocates for safe cycling in the US. All that would definitely help with redemption...

Oh, and more s*** is coming out

Apparently, LA tried to offer Hamilton "legal assistance" before the latter was set to testify before the grand jury

Also, looks like Weisel (founder of Montgomery Security, backer of LA, and former CEO of USAC) contributed $50k to Floyd's Defense Fund

http://www.velonation.com/...y-against-Texan.aspx

I wonder how Tim Hermann and minions feel about themselves when pulling stunts like this, or writing the defamatory pieces against Mike Andersen, or trying to get USADA defunded, or using the weight of Lance to crush anyone who speaks negative thoughts for 10 years running. I know the checks cash, but some associate actually doing the dirty work must question their stock in life at some point, no?

I haven't read the whole thread so my apologies if this has been said...

I don't want to know anything about Tyler Hamilton's "stuff starting to come out". Disgusting.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Sheryl Crow is scheduled to appear on Katie Couric’s new television program next week.

"On Monday, September 10th, the premiere episode of “Katie” will be packed with surprises. ..Also on the premiere episode: nine-time Grammy-winning artist Sheryl Crow, who is 50, and like Katie, a single mom and embarking on an exciting new phase of her own career. Crow, who has written and performed the theme song for “Katie,” entitled “This Day,” will also talk, for the first time, about her recently diagnosed brain tumor."

"There was a short time I believed."

Most who would be honest would probably say they did as well. Unless they had first or second hand knowledge of life in the peloton or LA's camp in the early days, it was too easy to believe in the miracle. It's all we heard about, and frankly, the 1999 tour was a pretty good piece of drama. Sure there was the little corticosteroid issue, but most of us in the tifosi would not have had the sophisticated introduction to doping in sports that would have led us to suspect the proffered answer wasn't true. I would guess the cracks started for some after the Actovegin-in-the-trash episode. It was like, "Wait, what? Well that's strange. And that's two years in a row that we've heard some doping whispers." But without solid evidence and covered by the wall of denial from the Postal camp, the cracks took a long time to set in and start the real crumbling.

I'd love to see LA fess up too. But I suspect he's got pressure from entities bigger than himself to keep the secrets. There is money and power behind his success that has no interest in being exposed. I think as long as LA sees that as a game he can't win, he'll continue to deny. I don't know that the USADA case can cause him enough pain to decide admission is the better route. Certainly those testimonies are as close as we're going to get to smoking guns with respect to what really went on. Certainly none of his competition will have had first-hand knowledge of his exploits such that even if all of them join the coming out chorus it would have zero effect on LA's continued denial.

And I never thought I'd see the day I became more cynical than you regarding doping, Francois. I am fairly convinced Bolt is as dirty as yellow snow. I didn't need the coach issue. 9.58 and 19.19 are exhibits A and B in my case.