Have to agree with ttusomeone. I’m not saying that this isn’t a topic that’s worthy of intelligent, interactive speaking and listening. It is. I’m not saying that the original post was a little non PC (and maybe intentful/trolllike)...hard to argue that point.

I am saying that there is a lot of hostility on this forum. Maybe it’s the medium in this case but I’ve seen this (as we all have) with our current political discourse. It’s hard to talk politics these days and it’s hard to read through threads like this...

If one looks at the scientific literature on human happiness, it’s clear that one of the biggest drivers of one’s happiness is the expression of genuine gratitude for and directly to another human and a real awareness of how ones behavior makes a fellow human feel.

It’s hard for me to see how any off you so violently insulting the human behind the OP can find any joy in that. Do you feel happier calling him a fuckhead?

If you do, I suggest you get some quiet time and think about the kind of human you want to be. Your purpose. Expressing gratitude or meanness? Which is important to you?

Or you could wait to you are old, slow, and not so much relevant anymore (like me). Ultimately, the truth will be revealed to you. The question is when?

And just to be clear, almost all of you throwing the flames around have made a materially positive impact in my life and my participation in this great sport and I’m thankful to you for that. Even these posts are helpful and clarifying for me.

I’m a utilitarian. I genuinely want everybody to be as happy and fulfilled as possible. The science is clear. Mean, aggressive vindictive is not the path to that goal.

Peace out!

rc

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

The question isn't should women get less of a paycheck. The question is actually why there aren't more pro women racing. The women's race was actually more competitive for podium positions than the men's race was, at least from my perspective. Very little reason to not have equal representation at this point.

NOPE!

OP is asking the wrong question. Can’t see the forest for the trees. No way, six ways from any Sunday that the women deserve anything less than equal prize purse. We usually call posits like the OP’s “tone deaf”. Sorry...go back and reconsider your position.

I would have to disagree based off finishing time proximity. +4 min and +8 min for 2nd and 3rd place male. +10&+15 for 2&3 female. Top 10 men finished within 8 min of each other. 4&5 ran most of the marathon together and 6th almost caught 5th at the end. Top 10 women were 32 min behind. You'd have to go to 22nd place for the men to be that far behind the winner.

The whole equal spots for women has been played out on this forum, I 100% don't think that's "fair" to have equal spots. Women already get a higher percentage of pros showing up at the start line based off the total number of female pros registered in Ironman.

But yet they manage to have record numbers of age group racers every year

Edit:

That logic would be the same as having a male and female exec making $500k but then reducing the female’s pay because the company has hired less women... no, that logic is flawed

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

The answer is No

I am a big believer that a person should be paid more if he/she is doing the same job but has a higher measureable output, productivity, impact, revenue generation etc. In this case, it has not be or can't be measured so it has to be the same....I don't believe that there should be wage equality for the sake of it

Reply of the thread!

Interest in mens sport is more than that of womens, no matter how you spin things theres no getting around that (which is where money is generated)

Equality of pay between Male/Female pro's wouldn't be achieved in Tri unless male/female races were raced on different days.

Try making the same argument but substitute race for gender. Maybe it will become apparent to you why it would be both bad business and bad ethics.

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Coach at TriForce Triathlon Team: https://www.triforceteam.com

This is intersting, I'm a massive football 'soccer' fan have been since a baby.

What is more interesting about womens football than men's? I've tried watching womens football quite a few times and the quality drop off is just too much.

Same with my wife and I mostly. The men's race was ok, but we're much more interested in how the ladies do.

I thought this thread was going to be about Ryf deserving more money after that performance, i was very wrong.

This!
If you think the OP's opinion is so blatantly wrong it should be very easy to point out the flaw of his argument instead of resorting to swearing and insults (which whilst being troll-ish there was none of in his/her post). I think this behavior causes a lot of people that would be neutral/undecided on the subject gravitate more towards the people making a rational (if misguided) argument rather than the loud and angry PC-brigade. Of course they won't post here because who wants to get called a f*****g idiot, but impressions are made, opinions are formed. And then: TRUMP is president BOOM!

Erm, back to the subject at hand:
I think equal prize money is a good pro-active signal to promote equality and female participation. But ultimately its the decision of whoever is paying it (WTC in this case) and what they are paying it for. I can tell you it's definitely not "Completing the same course under the same conditions", because that's something the very LAST finisher does as well. I'm pretty sure WTC have a good idea of the contribution of each gender's (pro) field to their economical success.

Question (genuinely asking, not making a point):
How well are those single-gender pro-races doing in terms of media interest, sponsorship and age-grouper participation if you compare male-pro-only and female-pro-only races? Is there a way to tell?

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

I don't understand how you could make his argument for race instead of gender.
The event isn't split up per race, but per female and male field. So as long as price money is tied to finishing position, it's the finishing position relative to the other males or females.
Or are you suggesting having race-categories in the field? I wouldn't think that would be appropriate.

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

You said it yourself.

Like I said, notwithstanding the bad ethics, this thread alone is evidence of how bad it would be for business. The money it would cost Ironman's brand because of the outcry would far exceed the money saved from not paying the same prizes.

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Coach at TriForce Triathlon Team: https://www.triforceteam.com

Well that was some quote-editing magic on your part. I didn't say the argument is inappropriate (as your quote suggests), but having race-divisions would be. I don't think that having a male and a female division is inappropriate.

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

The quote editing was kind of a joke.

But you didn't address the rest of my post, in any case.

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Coach at TriForce Triathlon Team: https://www.triforceteam.com

But it's not the same logic. Presumably the male or female exec are producing the same output for their company. Much more goes into determining the worth to the "company" in the sports/entertainment industry. There's a reason male golfers get paid more than female, it comes down to revenue, adverstising, viewership. So the question is.. are the women as valuable to IM/WTC as the men?

Clearly, WTC has said, "yes, the women are as valuable to us and we have equal prize purse to reflect that." I would presume this is because IM Kona isn't entertainment outside the relatively small amount of people that actually care about it. It's not broadcast on live cable or network television, therefore there aren't live advertisers. You couldn't find an article or results for the race on any major sports news outlet except a blip on NBC Sports online. Basically, the general public doesn't give a rat's ass about the hoopla in Kona. So who are they catering to? Well, us. Endurance sports junkies, multi-sport athletes, the revenue is in advertising in the affiliated magazines, and yeah in this small niche market the women are absolutely as marketable as the men. If this event had the magnitude of an October super bowl, the circumstances would change and I think by nature of the game the men's purse would be deeper and richer.

But it's not. Because no one cares. So all said, I agree with those that support the equal pay, because from a business perspective it just makes sense. The self-righteous gender equity virtuosity doesn't apply here. Save that for the female cyclists that want equal pay and TV time as the men.

Please edit your post title to read "Stupidest Post in ST History"..................

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

That's not how burden of proof works. He said something stupid and made a few claims. He didn't back up any of them. He should have. You make the claims, you back them up - it's not other people's job to confirm of deny them.
...And I'm not even getting into how devoid of logic and what we've considered common sense in the last 100 years the whole thing was.

IMO this idiot is a troll. That's his only purpose here. Debating with him is a waste of everyone's time and serves no purpose.

I nominate the OP for the mission of telling Daniela she needs to hand over 1/3 of her prize money to Patrick.

Let us know how that goes.

Jackass. 1920 called and they need you back on the front lines against women's suffrage.


After a beat down from Ryf, maybe we'll send you to marketing 101 and you'll be more open to understanding the complete dumbassery of your position.




I tried to be nice, but the stupid is too strong on this thread.

Stupid is true but it's also a huge understatement. The post and the thoughts which initiated it are sexist and ignorant.

Proof the mind of a profamateur really is simple.

Have the women and men start on different days, women and men can generate there own money with sponsors/TV etc then nobody can be accused of taking a slice out of anybody else's pie.

We'd get better coverage of both races also I'm sure, everyone's a winner (apart from maybe the residents and some of the AG lot who like a sly draft)