I think you are woke and I'd love to listen to your podcast.

Look at the poll to the right, think you have it backwards..Troll ahead, hit the brakes!!!!

I think what we are all confused with in reading this, was that I/we didn't know that the internet was around in 1919 before they adopted the 19th Amendment and how this post just showed up nearly 100 years late

I think you can fuck right back off into the hole you dragged yourself out of. Thank you for asking.

Spoken like a true "Christina". Use your words, girl friend, you can do better than an F bomb insult

I don’t find it troubling and ARE YOU F***ING kidding me?!! You are talking about viewership? What!?! ST viewership!?! Newsflash. Nobody outside of ST watches IM Kona

Quoted so that if you make any edits we have a history of the stupidest post ever on Slowtwitch. Why would anyone believe that women shouldn’t get equal pay in a sport that is declining in participation?

We need to attract more women to the sport. Your post is disgusting.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Oh my god, it's true, do you really live under a bridge in scandanavia. I was telling my kids you don't exist but it turns out I've found one........

 Are you seriously suggesting Inequality? I really hope I misunderstood this post?

I think you're mistaking numbers/participation with impact.

The pro men might make up 72% of the pro field but they don't make up 72% of the impact.

Wouldn't it be more equitable to split the price purse according to the 72 / 28? How does a nominal 50 / 50 split make any sense?

Wow I thought Ironman had priced itself out of the white trash market. Guess I was wrong.

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"There may be men that can beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it." Steve Prefontane

You're an idiot.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Total idiot...

...Ashley Horner should get 100% of the "price purse".

I feel like if one our pros raced for the Ironman Foundation they'd get much closer to 100k than she did.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Awww.... You got me, you little rascal! I was reading away getting hotter and hotter as one assholery followed another, thinking "Are there still social idiots like this running around loose? Voting, driving cars and breeding?" And then it hit me - this is a troll, right? And I fell for it totally. A brilliant exercise in pretending to be a complete idiot just to have a little fun with the Twitchers. Well done, my man!

Should female police officers earn less because they make up less of the police force? I don’t think so.

I also think Ryf has a tremendous impact with Felt

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USAT Level II- Ironman U Certified Coach

is sponsorship money equal? i would probably think no...and these athletes make more off sponsorship/endorsements than anything else.

I'm against gender inequality, and it is your post that I find troubling.

I don't know the right answer, but there has to be a more equitable distribution that's in line with relative financial impact than a simple 50 / 50 split.

What I think;

0% agree with you.

No aswering question, just my opinion, your ideas come from a male chauvinist mentality.

Also I´d like to add that is seems that you don´t know nothing about female sport, and nothing about the right for women´s right in last century (maybe I´m wrong)

No

This is analogous to the CEO example in my OP. The answer is absolutely (and obviously) not.

? I'm lost.

We all think you are a fucking idiot.

Why give it away? I was hoping to have more of a go-around with the likes of BryanD.

Just when I thought no-one could be that fucking stupid, you go and prove me wrong. I have pretty low expectations for most people’s intelligence, but you managed to even fail to live up to that. Congratulations, you win the dumbfuck of the week award.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I’ve really been waiting for an opportunity to use this quote. So thank you for providing one!

“If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.” - Derek Bok.

The OP is an ignorant asshat.

But again, thanks for the opportunity!....dick.

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My other car is a Felt. DFL>DNF>DNS.

"There will come a day you won't be able to do this, today is not that day."

The FIGHT for women´s rights

Someone with your intelligence shouldn't be arguing for meritocratic pay.

This thread is a perfect example of what's wrong with this country. Instead of debating the OPs point in a civilized manner, everyone just attacks them for having an opinion that's different and counter to prevailing opinions.

To respond to the OPs question, I support equal payouts at this level because they are all professionals and as a private enterprise, Ironman has decided to pay equally.

I find it a more interesting debate at the local race level (speaking from a bike racing perspective and not tris), on the pros/cons of equal payouts. I've seen where I live that equal payouts doesn't necessarily draw more women to the races. In some case the promotors lose money on the women's field. So the debate would be should they lose money in the name of equal payouts, or base payouts on attendance (which I think was the point the OP was originally asking)? Personally I support a race promotors right to base their race's payouts on whatever they want, since it's a business decision and their decision can (and sometimes does) impact the number of participants they have (and their revenue).

Whoa. You managed to click through to my profile and find out my name. That was not even a clever retort, boyfriend.

You'll notice that my f-bomb was one of many - perhaps you pay more for f-bombs from men, who apparently think you're as much of an idiot as I do. I'm shocked, shocked I tell you. Can I do better? Of course. Are you worth the time or effort? Fuck no.

Female pros pay the same $900 for their WTC license that the males pay. Also, are you just assuming financial impact is equal to male vs. female entries in races?

Either way that post is one of the most idiotic things ever posted here. At no point in your incoherent ramblings did you come close to a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for reading your post. You are awarded no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

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Twitter - Instagram

To suggest that the women's Ironman World Champion, who raced the same race on the same course on the same day as the professional men - and handily beat a number of them - should be paid fewer dollars for that achievement is not expressing a contrary view, it is being deliberately inflammatory. Or, trolling, if you'd prefer to call it straight.

It's Sunday and I'm tired and I Just. Can't. Even. with the idea that people think that women have equal access to triathlon, and even more so in cycling. To try and address pay-for-attendance without also addressing historic lack of accessibility to sports (50 Women to Kona? Where's the women's Tour de France?) for women is to be so incredibly tone deaf and ignorant of history that I can't help you.

Wait, you don’t think women have equal access to cycling or triathlon (I’m specially talking local level)? I agree the OPs post was tilting towards trolling, but I stand by my point of lack of debate and straight into attacks is a problem we all need to resolve if we as a society want to move forward.

There is no debating this fucktard’s position in a civilized manner, because he is simply a troll who isn’t particularly interested in having an honest debate. Even other trolls are embarrassed by the stupidity of this troll.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Does anyone else find it troubling that the men and women are receiving equal prize purse distributions dispite the fact that women only make up 28% of the field?

IM makes it's money as a package, they don't have a men's race and a women's race, they all go at the same time. There have always been arguments for different purses in things like tennis and golf but they are distinct matches and often, distinct tournaments where they are not going head to head. Triathlon is a package sport and sports pay for airtime or advertising space based on the event, not on how many men or women there are participating.

They are doing the same course and experiencing the same conditions, it would be outrageous to offer different prize money. The effort should be to equalize participation.

Why do you think that the gender distribution of the field and--going along with your extended reasoning--viewership, etc., should determine the purse? Is there some sort of logic to this?

Finally, a coherent argument amidst the diatribe.

Not agreeing with him, but I’d be curious as to what you’d propose to close the pay gap in something like pro basketball.

I’ll grab the popcorn.

As for triathlon, I see it like Price is Right. Everyone showed up to the same show, so shouldn’t matter what the winner “is”. Imagine if women on Price is Right won less at the same show.

Finally some logical depate you agree with. How about what were they doing out the kitchen in the first place?

Shit! I knew I turned the wrong way after I'd finished scrubbing the toilet.

You must be a virgin

I didn't read the whole thread but I don't watch any race for the men. When I watch the ITU races I always seem to watch the women's race first.

thanks for making me smile this morning

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i see your point.

BUT. women make up a smaller percent of the pro field because IM limits the amount of women compared to men. unless you're talking about amateur ranks as well?

i'm sure IM as thought of this, and i'm sure it has been brought up at board meetings. but their goal is to increase female participation, and viewership. what they are doing is investing in women, which honestly, is a good idea. we're close to, if not at saturation for male participation. i see more and more opportunity for growth via woman, and i'm sure IM see's that as we...

i don't think you meant any harm towards woman, but this is an internet forum. work on your delivery.

john

I think you are conflating two different things. 1) You seem to be assuming that because the make-up of the Kona field is heavily weighted towards male participants that females don't have a larger representation in other IM races in general. That may or may not be the case (I don't know the actual % breakdown), but making an overarching assumption based upon one race and it's relatively small sample size seems like a poor decision. 2) Unlike other sports (e.g. basketball) where there is a clear way to distinguish the revenue generated (advertising, merchandise, etc.) by the males participants vs the female participants (hence the massive delta in pay)... I think as others have argued it is much more difficult to do that in the sport of Triathlon (hence the "package deal" argument). Therefore, if there is no discernible way to breakdown the delta... the logical thing is to have pay/prize purse parity.

That all said...wow! The amount of virtue signaling and faux outrage here is astonishing. I had no idea that so many STers (who seem to take pleasure in being complete a$$holes) would get their knickers all knotted up over you asking a question -- even if it was loaded and looking to be incendiary

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In search of the righteous life... we all fall down

My wife and I only tuned in for the women field. I gravitate towards the women in Triathlon, tennis, soccer, and gymnastics.

Have to agree with ttusomeone. I’m not saying that this isn’t a topic that’s worthy of intelligent, interactive speaking and listening. It is. I’m not saying that the original post was a little non PC (and maybe intentful/trolllike)...hard to argue that point.

I am saying that there is a lot of hostility on this forum. Maybe it’s the medium in this case but I’ve seen this (as we all have) with our current political discourse. It’s hard to talk politics these days and it’s hard to read through threads like this...

If one looks at the scientific literature on human happiness, it’s clear that one of the biggest drivers of one’s happiness is the expression of genuine gratitude for and directly to another human and a real awareness of how ones behavior makes a fellow human feel.

It’s hard for me to see how any off you so violently insulting the human behind the OP can find any joy in that. Do you feel happier calling him a fuckhead?

If you do, I suggest you get some quiet time and think about the kind of human you want to be. Your purpose. Expressing gratitude or meanness? Which is important to you?

Or you could wait to you are old, slow, and not so much relevant anymore (like me). Ultimately, the truth will be revealed to you. The question is when?

And just to be clear, almost all of you throwing the flames around have made a materially positive impact in my life and my participation in this great sport and I’m thankful to you for that. Even these posts are helpful and clarifying for me.

I’m a utilitarian. I genuinely want everybody to be as happy and fulfilled as possible. The science is clear. Mean, aggressive vindictive is not the path to that goal.

Peace out!

rc

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Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.

The question isn't should women get less of a paycheck. The question is actually why there aren't more pro women racing. The women's race was actually more competitive for podium positions than the men's race was, at least from my perspective. Very little reason to not have equal representation at this point.

NOPE!

OP is asking the wrong question. Can’t see the forest for the trees. No way, six ways from any Sunday that the women deserve anything less than equal prize purse. We usually call posits like the OP’s “tone deaf”. Sorry...go back and reconsider your position.

I would have to disagree based off finishing time proximity. +4 min and +8 min for 2nd and 3rd place male. +10&+15 for 2&3 female. Top 10 men finished within 8 min of each other. 4&5 ran most of the marathon together and 6th almost caught 5th at the end. Top 10 women were 32 min behind. You'd have to go to 22nd place for the men to be that far behind the winner.

The whole equal spots for women has been played out on this forum, I 100% don't think that's "fair" to have equal spots. Women already get a higher percentage of pros showing up at the start line based off the total number of female pros registered in Ironman.

But yet they manage to have record numbers of age group racers every year

Edit:

That logic would be the same as having a male and female exec making $500k but then reducing the female’s pay because the company has hired less women... no, that logic is flawed

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wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

The answer is No

I am a big believer that a person should be paid more if he/she is doing the same job but has a higher measureable output, productivity, impact, revenue generation etc. In this case, it has not be or can't be measured so it has to be the same....I don't believe that there should be wage equality for the sake of it

Reply of the thread!

Interest in mens sport is more than that of womens, no matter how you spin things theres no getting around that (which is where money is generated)

Equality of pay between Male/Female pro's wouldn't be achieved in Tri unless male/female races were raced on different days.

Try making the same argument but substitute race for gender. Maybe it will become apparent to you why it would be both bad business and bad ethics.

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Coach at TriForce Triathlon Team: https://www.triforceteam.com

This is intersting, I'm a massive football 'soccer' fan have been since a baby.

What is more interesting about womens football than men's? I've tried watching womens football quite a few times and the quality drop off is just too much.

Same with my wife and I mostly. The men's race was ok, but we're much more interested in how the ladies do.

I thought this thread was going to be about Ryf deserving more money after that performance, i was very wrong.

This!
If you think the OP's opinion is so blatantly wrong it should be very easy to point out the flaw of his argument instead of resorting to swearing and insults (which whilst being troll-ish there was none of in his/her post). I think this behavior causes a lot of people that would be neutral/undecided on the subject gravitate more towards the people making a rational (if misguided) argument rather than the loud and angry PC-brigade. Of course they won't post here because who wants to get called a f*****g idiot, but impressions are made, opinions are formed. And then: TRUMP is president BOOM!

Erm, back to the subject at hand:
I think equal prize money is a good pro-active signal to promote equality and female participation. But ultimately its the decision of whoever is paying it (WTC in this case) and what they are paying it for. I can tell you it's definitely not "Completing the same course under the same conditions", because that's something the very LAST finisher does as well. I'm pretty sure WTC have a good idea of the contribution of each gender's (pro) field to their economical success.

Question (genuinely asking, not making a point):
How well are those single-gender pro-races doing in terms of media interest, sponsorship and age-grouper participation if you compare male-pro-only and female-pro-only races? Is there a way to tell?

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

I don't understand how you could make his argument for race instead of gender.
The event isn't split up per race, but per female and male field. So as long as price money is tied to finishing position, it's the finishing position relative to the other males or females.
Or are you suggesting having race-categories in the field? I wouldn't think that would be appropriate.

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

You said it yourself.

Like I said, notwithstanding the bad ethics, this thread alone is evidence of how bad it would be for business. The money it would cost Ironman's brand because of the outcry would far exceed the money saved from not paying the same prizes.

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Coach at TriForce Triathlon Team: https://www.triforceteam.com

Well that was some quote-editing magic on your part. I didn't say the argument is inappropriate (as your quote suggests), but having race-divisions would be. I don't think that having a male and a female division is inappropriate.

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if you can read this
YOU'RE DRAFTING!

The quote editing was kind of a joke.

But you didn't address the rest of my post, in any case.

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Coach at TriForce Triathlon Team: https://www.triforceteam.com

But it's not the same logic. Presumably the male or female exec are producing the same output for their company. Much more goes into determining the worth to the "company" in the sports/entertainment industry. There's a reason male golfers get paid more than female, it comes down to revenue, adverstising, viewership. So the question is.. are the women as valuable to IM/WTC as the men?

Clearly, WTC has said, "yes, the women are as valuable to us and we have equal prize purse to reflect that." I would presume this is because IM Kona isn't entertainment outside the relatively small amount of people that actually care about it. It's not broadcast on live cable or network television, therefore there aren't live advertisers. You couldn't find an article or results for the race on any major sports news outlet except a blip on NBC Sports online. Basically, the general public doesn't give a rat's ass about the hoopla in Kona. So who are they catering to? Well, us. Endurance sports junkies, multi-sport athletes, the revenue is in advertising in the affiliated magazines, and yeah in this small niche market the women are absolutely as marketable as the men. If this event had the magnitude of an October super bowl, the circumstances would change and I think by nature of the game the men's purse would be deeper and richer.

But it's not. Because no one cares. So all said, I agree with those that support the equal pay, because from a business perspective it just makes sense. The self-righteous gender equity virtuosity doesn't apply here. Save that for the female cyclists that want equal pay and TV time as the men.

Please edit your post title to read "Stupidest Post in ST History"..................

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

That's not how burden of proof works. He said something stupid and made a few claims. He didn't back up any of them. He should have. You make the claims, you back them up - it's not other people's job to confirm of deny them.
...And I'm not even getting into how devoid of logic and what we've considered common sense in the last 100 years the whole thing was.

IMO this idiot is a troll. That's his only purpose here. Debating with him is a waste of everyone's time and serves no purpose.

I nominate the OP for the mission of telling Daniela she needs to hand over 1/3 of her prize money to Patrick.

Let us know how that goes.

Jackass. 1920 called and they need you back on the front lines against women's suffrage.


After a beat down from Ryf, maybe we'll send you to marketing 101 and you'll be more open to understanding the complete dumbassery of your position.




I tried to be nice, but the stupid is too strong on this thread.

Stupid is true but it's also a huge understatement. The post and the thoughts which initiated it are sexist and ignorant.

Proof the mind of a profamateur really is simple.

Have the women and men start on different days, women and men can generate there own money with sponsors/TV etc then nobody can be accused of taking a slice out of anybody else's pie.

We'd get better coverage of both races also I'm sure, everyone's a winner (apart from maybe the residents and some of the AG lot who like a sly draft)

This would not end well for the PC crowd.

This is a hilarious troll...keep it coming...very TRS radioesque

Says the idiotic poster on ST who hides behind his keyboard, O wait your David Sedelnick? Yep, big tough guy. Probably the same guy that would complain if I went back to racing amateur and KQ'd, you would then call me a sandbagger right?

Back to the original topic, I don't think I really needed to expand on my thoughts. It is quite simply the stupidest thing I/we have seen on ST in a very long time. Do you pay women who work for you less than the men, simply because there are fewer of them? Why do you think the Pro Women should be treated any differently?

There is one race that I know of that does what you suggest, and that is a race in France, and it blows me away that Pro Women even show up on the start line and show any type of support for the race.

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

Clearly you haven't bothered to read the thread. Guess you were a cliff notes guy in college?

Edit to spell it out:

Of course the OP is ridiculous. Trimule nailed it in the 18th post (first page):

and despite my subsequent confirmation, the majority of posters continued with thoughtless diatribe well into the 4th page (yourself included). Did I think the OP would draw opprobrium, of course, but the inability of the masses (absent a few: ttusomeone, sanuk, etc.) to form a coherent argument, even when confronted with absurdity, amazed me.

Isn't rule #1 of trolling, to never admit trolling? Awwww, and I was having fun reading the thread.

I remember when trolling on forums was insta-ban material. Are you proud of yourself?

Sexist bullshit doesn’t merit thoughtful response any more than racist or anti Semitic bullshit does. Or flat-Eartherism. Debunked and harmful ideas, when rehashed, should be shot down and the person who brought them forward should be publicly shamed. Even if it was insincere. Maybe especially if it was insincere.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I give you credit for your ability to dig holes and to make increasingly sad posts.

Thanks for reading.

Thanks for being so thought provoking.

It's like you're on the debate team and you were assigned to the position that had absolutely no shred of logic to back it up. You did use everything that was available to you though, so kudos there.

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https://connect.garmin.com/modern/profile/domingjm

Supply and demand.
Fewer women, so they're worth more.
See? It's easy to talk crap.

This is kind of like the Nigerian scammers chapter of freakonomics. They want it to be so plainly a scam sthat only the most gullible people will fall for it and follow through. I can’t imagine Dave though he would catch so many fish with this post.

As to whether he should have posted a troll thread or not, they are very common on here and are usually only meant to have a little fun. I’m not opposed.

your reply to the original post more is more stupid-er,,,,,,,,,,

Thanks for the reply.
How is Appalachia this time of year? You and the cousin wife doing well ? CPS stop harassing you about “home schooling “ your kids? When will they learn Mountain Dew mouth is a badge of honor.

Unfortunately I don’t speak inbred illiterate POS so not sure your point. Maybe go easy on the moonshine before jumping on the Google machine next time.

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"There may be men that can beat me, but they are going to have to bleed to do it." Steve Prefontane

😂

I'm just here for the comments. This will be great.